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Friday, June 10, 2011

Cecil Fielder hoping to mend relationship with son

Jeez…good thing Prince is playing well during his walk away year.

Listening to Cecil Fielder on Thursday, it doesn’t sound like much has changed. He and his son haven’t talked since a meeting last year in Atlanta, and it wasn’t the best of conversations.

“I wanted to drop a right on him instead of talking to him,” Cecil Fielder said. “But right now, there’s a lot of stuff that’s going on with him: he’s got a heck of a season going, he’s up for contract. As a dad, you don’t want to go in there and ruin his space. This is his time.”

...“Can’t anybody say I didn’t give my son everything in the world,” Cecil Fielder said. “My son was a gifted child but he had some difficulties that he had to overcome. No. 1 was weight, he was an obese kid. Without his dad paying for a trainer to come over there six days a week, he would have been an obese kid to this day.”

In the past, Cecil Fielder said he felt Prince was too immature to try and repair their relationship. But now that Prince is a father, Cecil Fielder said he hopes his son will gain a different perspective and the two can iron out their differences.

Repoz Posted: June 10, 2011 at 08:48 AM | 104 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: brewers, business, media, tigers

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   1. RollingWave Posted: June 10, 2011 at 09:27 AM (#3850040)
Cecil vs Prince in a ring should draw a pretty good crowrd....
   2. Greg K Posted: June 10, 2011 at 09:47 AM (#3850041)
I know if my dad and I ever have a disagreement him telling the national media embarassing stories about my childhood would be the best way to bring up back together
   3. Lassus Posted: June 10, 2011 at 10:42 AM (#3850043)
Article doesn't make an attempt to state why Prince might be upset with his dad in the first place. Did Cecil write it?

"I wanted to hit him last year, and he'd be a fat nobody without me". Sounds like a winner of a dad.
   4. AJMcCringleberry Posted: June 10, 2011 at 11:06 AM (#3850044)
Cecil vs Prince in a ring should draw a pretty good crowrd

Yeah, but most of them would be there because of the gravitational pull.

Sounds like a winner of a dad.

Just did a google search, found a couple of other articles from a couple of different years. Cecil is basically saying the same thing, Prince is a douche, I did nothing wrong, he'll talk to me soon. Cecil seems to not be getting it.
   5. Dog on the sidewalk has an ugly bracelet Posted: June 10, 2011 at 11:34 AM (#3850048)
I like that the first thing Fielder comes up with as proof that he was a good dad is that he paid someone else to help his son out with a problem.

That said, when I was about 10, Cecil came to a baseball camp I was attending, hit some very very long BP home runs, and gave me a personalized autograph, so I side with him in this dispute. At this camp, I also got to meet and get a personalized autograph from Tommy Lasorda, which I'm sure will greatly impress the BBTF masses.
   6. Shalimar Posted: June 10, 2011 at 11:48 AM (#3850052)
If you want to heal a relationship, you don't go to the media and tell them about it. You go to your son and say, "I'm sorry I did x, can you forgive me?"

You go to the media when you want attention, which seems to be what Cecil is doing. Is he going to get attention any other way now except talking about Prince?
   7. Fancy Pants Handle struck out swinging Posted: June 10, 2011 at 11:50 AM (#3850053)
My son was a gifted child but he had some difficulties that he had to overcome. No. 1 was weight, he was an obese kid. Without his dad paying for a trainer to come over there six days a week, he would have been an obese kid to this day.

And look at him now! He's grown into a fully matured obese adult!
   8. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: June 10, 2011 at 12:02 PM (#3850057)
Hmm, let's see, Prince is a half year away from signing a contract that will exceed $100M? Dad wants to patch things up. Hmm.

Didn't Cecil gamble away Prince's original signing bonus or something?
   9. depletion Posted: June 10, 2011 at 12:25 PM (#3850069)
As a parent and a child I feel for both of them. Obviously Cecil worked hard to provide for his family, then proceeded to screw up in casinos. I hope they get it worked out.

Your children are not your children.
They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.
They come through you but not from you,
And though they are with you yet they belong not to you.
- Kahlil Gibran -

link to complete poem
   10. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: June 10, 2011 at 12:46 PM (#3850076)
Didn't Cecil gamble away Prince's original signing bonus or something?

Sounds more like he gambled away everything.

As Prince Fielder, then a husky, 18-year-old first-baseman for the Class A Beloit (Wis.) Snappers, trotted off the field after a home game one day in August 2002, a man stepped out from behind the bleachers to intercept him.

It wasn't a reporter or fan. It was a process server, who for months had been searching for his dad, who was living with his son at the time. The man shoved some papers into Prince Fielder's hands, naming his father as defendant in a $387,744 lawsuit.

Although Prince Fielder wasn't a defendant in the suit, the sins of the father — poor business decisions and an unstoppable gambling compulsion — had been visited upon the son, in the form of an extremely embarrassing incident.

In addition to the Trump judgment (of $500,000), the bills, all annotated in the Fielders' still-pending divorce case and other public records, eventually included:

• $716,000 to Union Bank for a warehouse mortgage, plus another $300,000 for a loan.
• $660,000 to a company listed simply as "GHF, LLC." The News reached the company's registered agent, but he declined to be interviewed or reveal the type of business involved.
• $387,744 from the lawsuit served on his son — because Cecil was living with him at the time — resulting from a trailer-rental business gone bad in Wisconsin.
• $300,000 for a loan from Colonial Bank.
• $300,000 to Paris Las Vegas casino.
• $150,000 in credit-card debt.
• $1 million from a mortgage the Fielders took out on their Melbourne mansion from Standard Federal Bank.
• $1,065,864 in back taxes and a second mortgage to Comerica Bank, which won a foreclosure judgment on the estate in June, paid off Standard Federal, and now hopes to sell the property.
   11. RJ in TO Posted: June 10, 2011 at 12:46 PM (#3850077)
Didn't Cecil gamble away Prince's original signing bonus or something?

Yes, but only after he gambled away all of his own money first.
   12. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: June 10, 2011 at 02:39 PM (#3850151)
Post #8 was my initial reaction, too. This isn't the first time this story has been out there, but it's been a couple of years. Mighty fine timing that the story resurfaces when Prince is so close to what will likely be his biggest payday as a pro ballplayer.
   13. Rants Mulliniks Posted: June 10, 2011 at 02:48 PM (#3850163)
I think its obvious that Cecil is a degenerate piece of ####. If I was Prince, I wouldn't speak to him again, and I certainly wouldn't let him near my kids, until he fesses up and asks for forgiveness - and not through the media.
   14. Brian C Posted: June 10, 2011 at 02:53 PM (#3850169)
“He needs his space to grow and have his own career,” Cecil Fielder said. “A lot of times when there's an article or anything like that, they always mention my name in there with his. I think he's trying to have his own space, but you can't really have your own space when the red carpet was laid out for you.”

Huh. This sounds less like "I want to patch things up in time for the big contract" than "I want to patch things up in time for the big contract because that coattail-riding ingrate owes me!"
   15. Tuque Posted: June 10, 2011 at 03:00 PM (#3850174)
Aha! I've found my B-plot in my tentative Fielder/Sabathia love-affair screenplay!
   16. Fernigal McGunnigle Posted: June 10, 2011 at 03:15 PM (#3850188)
...
- Kahlil Gibran -



They #### you up, your mum and dad.
They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you.

But they were ###### up in their turn
By fools in old-style hats and coats,
Who half the time were soppy-stern
And half at one another's throats.

Man hands on misery to man.
It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
And don't have any kids yourself.

- Phillip Larkin
   17. spivey Posted: June 10, 2011 at 03:24 PM (#3850196)
Cecil Fielder comes off like a Grade A asshat in this article.
   18. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 10, 2011 at 03:33 PM (#3850202)
I think its obvious that Cecil is a degenerate piece of ####.


No it's not. It's clear that he doesn't have the standard issue parenting skills a bunch of internet dorks think he should have, but those are hardly identical statements.
   19. Guapo Posted: June 10, 2011 at 03:48 PM (#3850218)
Abra-abra-cadabra
I want to reach out and grab ya
Abra-abra-cadabra
Abracadabra

-Steve Miller
   20. OMJ, urban D machine Posted: June 10, 2011 at 03:51 PM (#3850220)
It kind of is that obvious. Gambling away your son's signing bonus, and the list in post 10, lean heavily towards substandard parenting AND degenerate piece of ####.
   21. RJ in TO Posted: June 10, 2011 at 03:56 PM (#3850226)
Cecil Fielder comes off like a Grade A asshat in this article.

He comes off like this, every time he talks about Prince. A couple years back, he was at one of the Flashback Friday events the Jays held, and it was the exact same sort of talk - where it was somehow Prince's fault that their relationship had broken down, rather than it having anything to do with his actions.
   22. Rafael Bellylard: The Grinch of Orlando. Posted: June 10, 2011 at 04:00 PM (#3850232)
Am with Prince on this one 100%. I have a brother I haven't seen or spoken to since our father's funeral in 1984. Being an ####### does not get absolved just because of the word "family".
   23. Rafael Bellylard: The Grinch of Orlando. Posted: June 10, 2011 at 04:01 PM (#3850237)
Aha! I've found my B-plot in my tentative Fielder/Sabathia love-affair screenplay!


This is gonna look so cool on IMAX.
   24. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 10, 2011 at 04:12 PM (#3850245)
Am with Prince on this one 100%. I have a brother I haven't seen or spoken to since our father's funeral in 1984. Being an ####### does not get absolved just because of the word "family".


Actually, it does.
   25. Lassus Posted: June 10, 2011 at 04:17 PM (#3850248)
Not for everybody, Sam. My mom dealt with a terrible half-sister for longer than you've been alive. Then, she stole $30,000 from their moms estate. After five decades of treating her like crap, that was enough.

So, no, it doesn't for everyone.
   26. Rafael Bellylard: The Grinch of Orlando. Posted: June 10, 2011 at 04:19 PM (#3850249)
Actually, it does.


We'll have to agree to disagree on this point.
   27. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 10, 2011 at 04:23 PM (#3850252)
Not for everybody, Sam.


I realize I'm in the minority on this one, but duty and honor supersedes individual preference. Of course, it sounds as if your half-aunt dishonored herself and her family, which obviously enters into the equation. As, quite obviously, does Cecil Fielder's actions and behavior with his son.

That said, familial duty is a bigger deal than modern Americans give it credit for. It's one of our failings as a society.
   28. Lassus Posted: June 10, 2011 at 04:28 PM (#3850255)
I guess my question in that case is where's the line for you between duty and doormat?
   29. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 10, 2011 at 04:40 PM (#3850265)
I guess my question in that case is where's the line for you between duty and doormat?


Have you read Antigone?
   30. Fly should without a doubt be number !!!!! Posted: June 10, 2011 at 04:45 PM (#3850270)
You have to remember: Sam H is a TERRIBLE person, who would wish death on your family if you disagree with him on matters of opinion. So. There's that.
   31. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 10, 2011 at 04:54 PM (#3850278)
You have to remember: Sam H is a TERRIBLE person, who would wish death on your family if you disagree with him on matters of opinion. So. There's that.


While I do appreciate the sheer breadth and determination of this sort of cyber stalking I feel the need to point out a rather necessary fact that seems to get obscured from time to time. There is no person on this planet that I have ever truly, honestly, non-ironically "wished death" upon. You confuse hyperbolic internet commentary with reality. If I were to ever honestly want a man dead, that man would be dead, son.
   32. Lassus Posted: June 10, 2011 at 04:58 PM (#3850282)
Antigone and Enemy of the People were two of my favorite, life-changing plays in 8th grade. I had a martyr complex. While the literary reference is great and all, is you're with you family no matter how shittyass they treat you until death, that's fine. But it is not a dishonour to leave family who have treated you atrociously behind.
   33. Avoid Running At All Times- S. Paige Posted: June 10, 2011 at 05:00 PM (#3850284)
Sam, I'm guessing you had a happy family life. Am I right? Be honest.

The opening line of a Tolstoy book comes to mind.
   34. Brian C Posted: June 10, 2011 at 05:00 PM (#3850285)
I realize I'm in the minority on this one, but duty and honor supersedes individual preference.

Nice - you've quickly defined the terms of a debate with a very complicated emotional dynamic as high-minded on your side ("duty and honor") and superficial on the other ("individual preference"). Now, you'll be able to respond to any argument with a self-righteous affectation ("I realize I'm in the minority on this one...") without actually contributing any substance.

Congrats. Newt Gingrich would be proud.
   35. Fly should without a doubt be number !!!!! Posted: June 10, 2011 at 05:01 PM (#3850287)
Brian: He'll probably also "jokingly" mention that he hopes your kids get cancer.

Because he's ironic like that.
   36. Stevis Posted: June 10, 2011 at 05:01 PM (#3850288)
The familial duty was breached by Cecil, not Prince. Prince is right to tell him to die in a fire. Sharing a few gene sequences isn't more important than treating each other right.
   37. jmp Posted: June 10, 2011 at 05:04 PM (#3850290)
Seems clear to me that Prince has family in mind when he wants to protect his wife and children from the actions of his father.

Cecil did some awful things. Prince should certainly be grateful for the things he was given and where he is, but his first duty is to provide for and protect his children.
   38. Avoid Running At All Times- S. Paige Posted: June 10, 2011 at 05:05 PM (#3850292)
Sam, I'm guessing you had a happy family life. Am I right? Be honest.

The opening line of a Tolstoy book comes to mind.
   39. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 10, 2011 at 05:07 PM (#3850297)
Sam, I'm guessing you had a happy family life. Am I right? Be honest.


Childhood? Reasonably so, I assume. Nothing out of the ordinary. Just poor white trash from the swamps of south Georgia.
   40. Jose is Absurdly Correct but not Helpful Posted: June 10, 2011 at 05:12 PM (#3850302)
My family had a situatino where my aunt (my mother's step sister) stole about $70,000 from her. My mother, through about 5 years of litigation, got about half of it back. I understand where Sam is coming from and agree to the extent that family should get a LOT of leeway but eventually actions become too great to be forgiven.
   41. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: June 10, 2011 at 05:12 PM (#3850303)
Cecil did some awful things. Prince should certainly be grateful for the things he was given and where he is, but his first duty is to provide for and protect his children.

You know I think Prince has more than enough money to provide for his children no matter what; unless he did something abjectly stupid and made Cecil his money manager. I don't think talking to his Dad is going to jeopardize his children's future.

Also, the fact that Cecil blew his signing bonus, does not negate everything he did to support and raise Prince for the first 18 years. Cecil obviously had a big problem; he lost his money too, not just the son's.

They both come off like A-holes in this.
   42. Jack Keefe Posted: June 10, 2011 at 05:13 PM (#3850304)
Well now they are all up set because Cecil Feelher gambolled away some money. His son The Ballplayer Formerly Known As Feelher got the money in his Singing Boners and Cecil played Merry Andrew with the cash and now Sam Hutchinson thinks that Cecil is a Bad Parent. Well who is right Al. I asked my pal A.J. Pierogi. AJ I said what if you had a son and AJ said That #### told me she was on the pill. No AJ said I this is a Hyper Thetical. What if you had a son and he got a Thousand Bucks for Christmas and you went to Arlignton and lost the Grand on a Pony. Would that be a family oriented thing to do AJ. A.J. said It would depend Keefe. What if the nag was coming down in class and had the speed for Six Fur Longs and it was an underlay something like 10 or 12 to 1 and you could clean up but it just got bumpt out of the Gate. Thats life Keefe. I can see being up set if you throw it away on some maiden special wait race or the Daily Double but Keefe you cant win if you dont play. Its like a turtle you only make Progress if you stick your Neck out. Yes I said AJ thats true but in this case Sam Hutchinson will stab you in the Neck.
   43. Avoid Running At All Times- S. Paige Posted: June 10, 2011 at 05:16 PM (#3850310)
I'm not saying Cecil is a socipath or bad person, but there are and have been and will be sociopaths and bad people who have had children. Trust me, I'm an elementary school teacher. I've met some parents. The point is, Sam, that it's sometimes impossible to expect people to reconcile with family members.

There is a larger point here though. This is a deeply personal matter. Who knows who is right?
   44. Brian C Posted: June 10, 2011 at 05:17 PM (#3850311)
Also, the fact that Cecil blew his signing bonus, does not negate everything he did to support and raise Prince for the first 18 years. Cecil obviously had a big problem; he lost his money too, not just the son's.

They both come off like A-holes in this.

Taking shots at Cecil is one thing, because we've heard his side and it's woefully inadequate, but how about refraining from judging Prince (either way)? We don't really know his reasons here, since, unlike his dad, he's not making this a media issue. That seems like a good thing to me, and not something to hold against him.

He may be handling this well, or not. Seems hard for us to say.
   45. Lassus Posted: June 10, 2011 at 05:17 PM (#3850312)
hey both come off like A-holes in this.

How does Prince do so? Lack of other check?
   46. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 10, 2011 at 05:20 PM (#3850316)
My family had a situatino where my aunt (my mother's step sister) stole about $70,000 from her. My mother, through about 5 years of litigation, got about half of it back. I understand where Sam is coming from and agree to the extent that family should get a LOT of leeway but eventually actions become too great to be forgiven.


I'm not sure I've made myself clear. I've had family do bad things, to other family, to friends of the family, to strangers. And in those cases they and their actions were punished. By the family. Internally. And sometimes, externally. There have certainly been conversations, between reinforced glass using those little phone receivers that intimate private conversation where there is none, which amounts to "no, ain't nobody gonna pay it down for a while; you got yourself into this, you can sit here a bit until it sorts itself out."

That said, in those same cases, had others come at the blood kin with the exact same message I delivered, they would have been met with a unified front. They have no place or standing. What is within the pale is within the pale. What is beyond the pale is beyond.
   47. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: June 10, 2011 at 05:22 PM (#3850317)
How does Prince do so? Lack of other check?

The fact that he hasn't talked to his father since last year.

Unless Cecil did something really awful, e.g. physically/sexually abuse his kids or wife, I see no excuse for his son not occasionally speaking to him.

Hell, given how rich Prince is/will be, there's no excuse (again, short of serious abuse) for him not helping his father out financially. That could be done in a way that Cecil can't blow the money, like paying his rent or insurance directly.
   48. jmp Posted: June 10, 2011 at 05:23 PM (#3850318)
I don't think talking to his Dad is going to jeopardize his children's future.


As referenced in a link, Prince allowed Cecil to live with him. It's not like they never, ever talk. Cecil wants to be a part of his son's life, and Prince wants to protect his children. If Cecil just wanted to talk about baseball, or his golf game, or everyday stuff, they could probably build a relationship of some sort. But from what we hear, that's not what is going on.

Cecil obviously had a big problem; he lost his money too, not just the son's.


And Cecil is an adult who didn't learn from his mistakes. No reason for Prince to poison his children with whatever Cecil has to offer.

You know I think Prince has more than enough money to provide for his children no matter what


Prince just recently got his big money. Before then, he wasn't super rich.
   49. spivey Posted: June 10, 2011 at 05:24 PM (#3850319)
I normally don't find Jack Keefe posts as funny as most, but that one's pretty good.
   50. phredbird Posted: June 10, 2011 at 05:24 PM (#3850320)
i think i just busted a gut on that one.

the keefe post, that is.
   51. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: June 10, 2011 at 05:24 PM (#3850323)
That said, in those same cases, had others come at the blood kin with the exact same message I delivered, they would have been met with a unified front. They have no place or standing. What is within the pale is within the pale. What is beyond the pale is beyond.

That's taking it way too far Sam. I agree you owe some loyalty to family, but you owe loyalty to good people over bad people first.

If a relative of mine commits a serious crime against an innocent, I have to side with the innocent.
   52. Brian C Posted: June 10, 2011 at 05:25 PM (#3850324)
I'm not sure I've made myself clear. I've had family do bad things, to other family, to friends of the family, to strangers. And in those cases they and their actions were punished. By the family. Internally.

Well, no, you haven't made yourself clear, because you said earlier that being family "absolve[s]" being a jerk. Maybe you don't know what the word "absolve" means, but it's incompatible with "punishment."

Frankly, your idea of how to treat these matters seems in line with what Prince is apparently doing and what others are endorsing. So what's your beef?
   53. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: June 10, 2011 at 05:28 PM (#3850326)
And Cecil is an adult who didn't learn from his mistakes. No reason for Prince to poison his children with whatever Cecil has to offer.

How the hell is Cecil's financial irresponsibility going to "poison" the life of his little grandchildren?

I had an uncle who was a really con man, stealing from many relatives, that didn't stop him from being a great uncle to me when I was little.
   54. Brian C Posted: June 10, 2011 at 05:29 PM (#3850328)
If a relative of mine commits a serious crime against an innocent, I have to side with the innocent.

No sense arguing with someone who sees "duty and honor" as unquestioning tribalism.
   55. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 10, 2011 at 05:31 PM (#3850334)
That's taking it way too far Sam. I agree you owe some loyalty to family, but you owe loyalty to good people over bad people first.


As I said, I realize I am in the minority here, but I do not necessarily hold the good to be greater than the honorable or the dutiful. That is to say, I do not hold the good to be King of the Virtues. Plato was a fool.
   56. Brian C Posted: June 10, 2011 at 05:31 PM (#3850335)
I had an uncle who was a really con man, stealing from many relatives, that didn't stop him from being a great uncle to me when I was little.

Or so you think ... maybe he just conned you into thinking he was a great uncle. Did you ever really watch what he did with all those quarters behind your ear?
   57. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 10, 2011 at 05:32 PM (#3850336)
Well, no, you haven't made yourself clear, because you said earlier that being family "absolve[s]" being a jerk. Maybe you don't know what the word "absolve" means, but it's incompatible with "punishment."


No it's not.
   58. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 10, 2011 at 05:33 PM (#3850338)
Frankly, your idea of how to treat these matters seems in line with what Prince is apparently doing and what others are endorsing. So what's your beef?


I don't know what Prince fielder is doing. Neither do you.
   59. Brian C Posted: June 10, 2011 at 05:36 PM (#3850340)
No it's not.

Oh. Damn you dictionary! Foiled me again!

I don't know what Prince fielder is doing. Neither do you.

Hence the word "apparently", a word routinely used by people who realize that their interpretation of events may be wrong.
   60. Meatwad Posted: June 10, 2011 at 05:37 PM (#3850341)
Maybe those creditors arebugging prince for the money
   61. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 10, 2011 at 05:39 PM (#3850343)
Oh. Damn you dictionary! Foiled me again!


There can be no absolution without contrition. There can be no contrition without some form of punishment.
   62. jmp Posted: June 10, 2011 at 05:40 PM (#3850344)
How the hell is Cecil's financial irresponsibility going to "poison" the life of his little grandchildren?


I could speculate on any number of things. But it would be useless, because I lack sufficient information. I instead will look at what Cecil has done, what Prince has gone through, and trust that Prince is doing the right things based on his own life.

I guess the real question is, how much have you read about this, to truly understand what Prince is going through, and feel comfortable insulting him?
   63. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: June 10, 2011 at 05:45 PM (#3850347)
As I said, I realize I am in the minority here, but I do not necessarily hold the good to be greater than the honorable or the dutiful. That is to say, I do not hold the good to be King of the Virtues. Plato was a fool.

How is it honorable to side with the victimizer over the innocent victim based on some shared DNA?

That seems the exact opposite of honor to me.

Why do you have a duty based on shared DNA, but no duty based on what's right?
   64. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 10, 2011 at 05:46 PM (#3850350)
I guess the real question is, how much have you read about this, to truly understand what Prince is going through, and feel comfortable insulting him?


The way he whines about getting hit by a pitch that clearly got away from Jonny Venters, I'm quite comfortable insulting him.
   65. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: June 10, 2011 at 05:46 PM (#3850351)
There can be no absolution without contrition.

Yes.

There can be no contrition without some form of punishment.

No.

You can be contrite over what you did, and be forgiven by someone with no punishment. It happens every day.
   66. jmp Posted: June 10, 2011 at 05:47 PM (#3850353)

The way he whines about getting hit by a pitch that clearly got away from Jonny Venters, I'm quite comfortable insulting him


You seem comfortable insulting just about anybody, so that doesn't really mean much, does it?
   67. Dread Pirate Dave Roberts Posted: June 10, 2011 at 05:52 PM (#3850358)
Not to Dial the thread, but I need to offer a primey to #19. For a moment I was afraid that this thread was going to evolve into poetry quotes, which is pretty much the last thing I would have ever expected to find here.

Also, primey to #42 just on principle, one of Jack Keefe's best efforts in a while.
   68. Fernigal McGunnigle Posted: June 10, 2011 at 05:52 PM (#3850359)
I'm not sure I've made myself clear. I've had family do bad things, to other family, to friends of the family, to strangers. And in those cases they and their actions were punished. By the family. Internally. And sometimes, externally.


Abandoning a family member *is* the punishment from within the family. It's the family equivalent of the death penalty, or life in prison without parole. Or better yet, exile. Greek and Roman rulers used to exile their own relatives all of the time -- Augustus exiled his own daughter for immorality. It's classic, classical family behavior.

Also, we have no idea what Cecil Fielder was like to his son, outside of the financial shenanigans, the borderline theft, the gambling addiction, and the personal trainer. Maybe he's a guy who just made a few mistakes, maybe those mistakes were just the tip of the iceberg. We have no idea. It's ridiculous for us to start deciding what Prince Fielder should and should not do. (And it's ridiculous for Cecil Fielder to talk to the press about it.)

Keefe is a genius.
   69. Fancy Pants Handle struck out swinging Posted: June 10, 2011 at 05:56 PM (#3850363)
Antigone and Enemy of the People were two of my favorite, life-changing plays in 8th grade. I had a martyr complex.

Explains why you're a Mets fan.

I had an uncle who was a really con man, stealing from many relatives, that didn't stop him from being a great uncle to me when I was little.


Or so you think ... maybe he just conned you into thinking he was a great uncle.


Hey, don't be too harsh on snapper now. It's not his fault that his parents were fleeced out of the money to put him through college.
   70. Bernal Diaz has an angel on his shoulder Posted: June 10, 2011 at 06:00 PM (#3850365)
Unless Cecil did something really awful, e.g. physically/sexually abuse his kids or wife, I see no excuse for his son not occasionally speaking to him.


I mean, you still talk to priests right?
   71. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 10, 2011 at 06:01 PM (#3850366)
How is it honorable to side with the victimizer over the innocent victim based on some shared DNA?


Honor isn't a subset of justice.

Why do you have a duty based on shared DNA, but no duty based on what's right?


Because that's the way the gods decreed it be.
   72. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 10, 2011 at 06:01 PM (#3850367)
Abandoning a family member *is* the punishment from within the family. It's the family equivalent of the death penalty, or life in prison without parole. Or better yet, exile. Greek and Roman rulers used to exile their own relatives all of the time -- Augustus exiled his own daughter for immorality. It's classic, classical family behavior.



That's a good argument.
   73. Brian C Posted: June 10, 2011 at 06:03 PM (#3850369)
There can be no absolution without contrition. There can be no contrition without some form of punishment.

That is so, completely, utterly misguided that I not only feel comfortable that I was correct in stating that you have no idea what "absolution" is, but that I had overestimated you even when I said that.

Absolution is an act of grace on the part of the absolver, not something earned by the offender. It's much more profound than simple forgiveness, which seems to be what you're mistaking it for, because forgiveness is still based on the acknowledgment of an offense. Absolution simply washes away that offense away as if it never happened.

Though it's worth pointing out that even your idea of forgiveness is very empty, since apparently in your view it's only something to be offered on very narrow terms. Of course forgiveness can be offered without contrition. People do it all the time. It's not an act of score-keeping and points-counting, like you describe.
   74. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 10, 2011 at 06:05 PM (#3850371)
Absolution is an act of grace on the part of the absolver, not something earned by the offender.


Are priests in the habit of absolving sinners who have not confessed?
   75. Brian C Posted: June 10, 2011 at 06:07 PM (#3850372)
Who cares about priests? I'm not Catholic, I do not recognize the authority of priests, and absolution isn't exclusively a religious concept.
   76. Fancy Pants Handle struck out swinging Posted: June 10, 2011 at 06:09 PM (#3850376)
Are priests in the habit of absolving sinners who have not confessed?

Priests are not in the habit of absolving anything (or at least shouldn't be). The absolution comes from God, not the priest.
   77. scotto Posted: June 10, 2011 at 06:14 PM (#3850377)
Anyone who quotes "This Be the Verse" is all right in my book.
   78. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 10, 2011 at 06:19 PM (#3850380)
Priests are not in the habit of absolving anything (or at least shouldn't be). The absolution comes from God, not the priest


And does this little god man absolve without confession?
   79. Brian C Posted: June 10, 2011 at 06:22 PM (#3850384)
And does this little god man absolve without confession?

If he knows what "absolution" means, then he does, yes.
   80. Frisco Cali Posted: June 10, 2011 at 06:30 PM (#3850389)
What is within the pale is within the pale. What is beyond the pale is beyond.

I dare somebody to aregue with this.
   81. depletion Posted: June 10, 2011 at 06:31 PM (#3850391)
That said, familial duty is a bigger deal than modern Americans give it credit for. It's one of our failings as a society.

I don't know if I'd characterize this as a failing, but it explains some of why Americans and those in other countries, particularly the middle east and central asia, absolutely do not "get" what the other is about. A lot of folks in other countries are horrorfied to find that older Americans are in assisted living and not living with the children. Americans get befuddled when the cash we send to Afghanistan and Iraq gets siphoned into the bank accounts of the ruler's extended family.

Nobody on this board knows exactly what went down between Prince and Cecil. Cecil is in the news today for helping with a youth baseball tournament, he didn't seek out a reporter to tell this story.
   82. Zach Posted: June 10, 2011 at 06:32 PM (#3850392)
For a moment I was afraid that this thread was going to evolve into poetry quotes, which is pretty much the last thing I would have ever expected to find here.

We save that for the World Series. (starts on post #310)
   83. LionoftheSenate Posted: June 10, 2011 at 06:48 PM (#3850401)
Prince is like the Anti-Bonds. Sure, he is the best left handed hitter in baseball, as Bonds was, but his physique and relationship with his dad are polar opposites. In addition, Prince is jovial and fun loving, while Bonds was famously surly. I enjoy(ed) watching them both.
   84. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: June 10, 2011 at 06:50 PM (#3850404)
OK, here's my problem with this whole matter:

If in fact Cecil is genuinely looking to mend his relationship with Prince, he's doing a lousy job of it. Let's exclude the convenient fact that Prince is set to get what will likely be the biggest contract he ever gets. Cecil's comments still exhibit no personal growth or insight compared to the several articles about this subject from past years.

Whether this is how Cecil actually feels or if it was just poor wording on his part, his stance on this seems clear: I was not wrong and the only reason my son and I might be able to mend things up is because HE isn't as immature now that he's a father.

No one is arguing that Cecil did not care for Prince financially. But there's nothing here from Cecil that suggests a reconciliation between the two would happen because an admission or apology from Cecil about his past transgressions. Rather, it'd be a result of Prince going, "Sorry, dad, I've been an immature fool all of these years!"
   85. Dread Pirate Dave Roberts Posted: June 10, 2011 at 07:13 PM (#3850418)
For a moment I was afraid that this thread was going to evolve into poetry quotes, which is pretty much the last thing I would have ever expected to find here.

We save that for the World Series. (starts on post #310)


Wow, I never knew that thread existed. The most interesting part to me is the fact that in the middle of the poetry discussion was a discussion on female cup sizes. Nice dichotomy there....

To the matter at hand, I think this squabble is similar to negotiating contracts through the media. It's generally just not a good idea....
   86. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: June 10, 2011 at 07:20 PM (#3850422)
Just poor white trash from the swamps of south Georgia.


The mountain may get you, but the law never will.
   87. Greg K Posted: June 10, 2011 at 07:38 PM (#3850442)
I normally don't find Jack Keefe posts as funny as most

Forget Cecil, here is the REAL monster.
   88. JoeHova Posted: June 10, 2011 at 07:42 PM (#3850445)
Unless Cecil did something really awful, e.g. physically/sexually abuse his kids or wife, I see no excuse for his son not occasionally speaking to him.

There was a story a few years ago about Cecil smacking around Prince's younger sister in public because he viewed her as being on her mother's "side" during the divorce. I think that has at least as much to do with Prince's alienation as the money thing (although it also stemmed from Cecil's financial mismanagement).

Here's the article from 2004. It's actually kind of chilling. Cecil says, "Ceclynn got out of line and said some grown folks' business." Keep in mind that his daughter was 12 years old at this time. After the incident, Prince said that Cecil wouldn't return his daughter's calls. This led Prince to say: "
I'm her big brother, the only male in her life that she's had, and I'm trying to do my best... Things like this mess up little girls, and I don't want her ever feeling bad about herself or feeling that she is the one who caused the divorce between my mom and dad. My dad just left my mom, it wasn't because of her. I don't think it's fair for Ceclynn to feel like that, so whatever she's trying to do, I just want her to feel right. She's really serious about it, and I want to support her... She's vowed she never wants to see him or speak to him again. I don't blame her. I've got a (2-month-old) son now, and if I ever slapped him in the face for asking a valid question, I wouldn't expect him to want to talk to me, either."

That seems like a very mature take on the situation, especially for a 20 year old. He's worried about his young sister and his own child.
   89. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: June 10, 2011 at 07:45 PM (#3850447)
I can't imagine that Cecil is expecting forgiveness without having ever apologized to his son. This has been going on for years and I imagine at this point there is some frustration on his part that he hasn't been forgiven. He's obviously not handling that frustration constructively, but I'm sure he knows the fault primarily lies with him.
   90. zenbitz Posted: June 10, 2011 at 08:04 PM (#3850464)
At this camp, I also got to meet and get a personalized autograph from Tommy Lasorda


I'd be more impressed if you got the personalized autograph of 10 dogs.
   91. Rafael Bellylard: The Grinch of Orlando. Posted: June 10, 2011 at 08:09 PM (#3850467)
I can't imagine that Cecil is expecting forgiveness without having ever apologized to his son. This has been going on for years and I imagine at this point there is some frustration on his part that he hasn't been forgiven. He's obviously not handling that frustration constructively, but I'm sure he knows the fault primarily lies with him.


He may not be "seeking forgiveness" if he's the one who feels wronged by Prince, no matter how much Cecil lied, cheated, stole from or abused is family. And I have no inkling that Cecil sees the fault as primarily his.

Prince has the best view, and he's chosen to shun his father. A sad situation, certainly, but one I will give Prince all of the benefit of the doubt on.
   92. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: June 10, 2011 at 11:21 PM (#3850556)
He may not be "seeking forgiveness" if he's the one who feels wronged by Prince, no matter how much Cecil lied, cheated, stole from or abused is family. And I have no inkling that Cecil sees the fault as primarily his.

Prince has the best view, and he's chosen to shun his father. A sad situation, certainly, but one I will give Prince all of the benefit of the doubt on.

I never suggested that I was taking Cecil's side. I just think it's presumptuous for us to assume that he never apologized. Prince doesn't need our benefit of the doubt--he's entitled to handle this however he wants to, and it's really none of our business.
   93. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: June 11, 2011 at 12:34 AM (#3850610)
AJ I said what if you had a son and AJ said That #### told me she was on the pill.
amazing.
   94. The George Sherrill Selection Posted: June 11, 2011 at 01:20 AM (#3850647)
Cecil doesn't appear to be doing anything to demonstrate that he is sorry about what he did to his son. Unless I have missed something. An apology is just a few words (and this isn't even a good apology.)
   95. Adam Starblind Posted: June 11, 2011 at 02:09 AM (#3850678)

That said, familial duty is a bigger deal than modern Americans give it credit for. It's one of our failings as a society.


As is the fact that many fathers treat sons like garbage.
   96. Adam Starblind Posted: June 11, 2011 at 02:13 AM (#3850679)


As I said, I realize I am in the minority here, but I do not necessarily hold the good to be greater than the honorable or the dutiful. That is to say, I do not hold the good to be King of the Virtues. Plato was a fool.


Wait, are you trying to sound smart?
   97. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: June 11, 2011 at 02:22 AM (#3850682)
As is the fact that many fathers treat sons like garbage.

And vice versa.
   98. Adam Starblind Posted: June 11, 2011 at 02:32 AM (#3850683)
Bizarre reaction.
   99. Lassus Posted: June 11, 2011 at 02:37 AM (#3850685)
And vice versa.

Unless you want to bring up some other story where this happened, so what? How or why is that relevant? Cecil treated his son like garbage, and this is why he's being treated this way by his son.

The opposite did not happen here, so I can't figure why you insist on saying so.
   100. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: June 11, 2011 at 03:00 AM (#3850690)
The opposite did not happen here, so I can't figure why you insist on saying so.


Snapper and Sam are just the site axxholes.
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