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Baseball Primer Newsblog — The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand Friday, June 10, 2011Cecil Fielder hoping to mend relationship with sonJeez…good thing Prince is playing well during his walk away year.
Repoz
Posted: June 10, 2011 at 08:48 AM | 104 comment(s)
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"I wanted to hit him last year, and he'd be a fat nobody without me". Sounds like a winner of a dad.
Yeah, but most of them would be there because of the gravitational pull.
Sounds like a winner of a dad.
Just did a google search, found a couple of other articles from a couple of different years. Cecil is basically saying the same thing, Prince is a douche, I did nothing wrong, he'll talk to me soon. Cecil seems to not be getting it.
That said, when I was about 10, Cecil came to a baseball camp I was attending, hit some very very long BP home runs, and gave me a personalized autograph, so I side with him in this dispute. At this camp, I also got to meet and get a personalized autograph from Tommy Lasorda, which I'm sure will greatly impress the BBTF masses.
You go to the media when you want attention, which seems to be what Cecil is doing. Is he going to get attention any other way now except talking about Prince?
And look at him now! He's grown into a fully matured obese adult!
Didn't Cecil gamble away Prince's original signing bonus or something?
link to complete poem
Sounds more like he gambled away everything.
Yes, but only after he gambled away all of his own money first.
Huh. This sounds less like "I want to patch things up in time for the big contract" than "I want to patch things up in time for the big contract because that coattail-riding ingrate owes me!"
They #### you up, your mum and dad.
They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you.
But they were ###### up in their turn
By fools in old-style hats and coats,
Who half the time were soppy-stern
And half at one another's throats.
Man hands on misery to man.
It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
And don't have any kids yourself.
- Phillip Larkin
No it's not. It's clear that he doesn't have the standard issue parenting skills a bunch of internet dorks think he should have, but those are hardly identical statements.
I want to reach out and grab ya
Abra-abra-cadabra
Abracadabra
-Steve Miller
He comes off like this, every time he talks about Prince. A couple years back, he was at one of the Flashback Friday events the Jays held, and it was the exact same sort of talk - where it was somehow Prince's fault that their relationship had broken down, rather than it having anything to do with his actions.
This is gonna look so cool on IMAX.
Actually, it does.
So, no, it doesn't for everyone.
We'll have to agree to disagree on this point.
I realize I'm in the minority on this one, but duty and honor supersedes individual preference. Of course, it sounds as if your half-aunt dishonored herself and her family, which obviously enters into the equation. As, quite obviously, does Cecil Fielder's actions and behavior with his son.
That said, familial duty is a bigger deal than modern Americans give it credit for. It's one of our failings as a society.
Have you read Antigone?
While I do appreciate the sheer breadth and determination of this sort of cyber stalking I feel the need to point out a rather necessary fact that seems to get obscured from time to time. There is no person on this planet that I have ever truly, honestly, non-ironically "wished death" upon. You confuse hyperbolic internet commentary with reality. If I were to ever honestly want a man dead, that man would be dead, son.
The opening line of a Tolstoy book comes to mind.
Nice - you've quickly defined the terms of a debate with a very complicated emotional dynamic as high-minded on your side ("duty and honor") and superficial on the other ("individual preference"). Now, you'll be able to respond to any argument with a self-righteous affectation ("I realize I'm in the minority on this one...") without actually contributing any substance.
Congrats. Newt Gingrich would be proud.
Because he's ironic like that.
Cecil did some awful things. Prince should certainly be grateful for the things he was given and where he is, but his first duty is to provide for and protect his children.
The opening line of a Tolstoy book comes to mind.
Childhood? Reasonably so, I assume. Nothing out of the ordinary. Just poor white trash from the swamps of south Georgia.
You know I think Prince has more than enough money to provide for his children no matter what; unless he did something abjectly stupid and made Cecil his money manager. I don't think talking to his Dad is going to jeopardize his children's future.
Also, the fact that Cecil blew his signing bonus, does not negate everything he did to support and raise Prince for the first 18 years. Cecil obviously had a big problem; he lost his money too, not just the son's.
They both come off like A-holes in this.
There is a larger point here though. This is a deeply personal matter. Who knows who is right?
Taking shots at Cecil is one thing, because we've heard his side and it's woefully inadequate, but how about refraining from judging Prince (either way)? We don't really know his reasons here, since, unlike his dad, he's not making this a media issue. That seems like a good thing to me, and not something to hold against him.
He may be handling this well, or not. Seems hard for us to say.
How does Prince do so? Lack of other check?
I'm not sure I've made myself clear. I've had family do bad things, to other family, to friends of the family, to strangers. And in those cases they and their actions were punished. By the family. Internally. And sometimes, externally. There have certainly been conversations, between reinforced glass using those little phone receivers that intimate private conversation where there is none, which amounts to "no, ain't nobody gonna pay it down for a while; you got yourself into this, you can sit here a bit until it sorts itself out."
That said, in those same cases, had others come at the blood kin with the exact same message I delivered, they would have been met with a unified front. They have no place or standing. What is within the pale is within the pale. What is beyond the pale is beyond.
The fact that he hasn't talked to his father since last year.
Unless Cecil did something really awful, e.g. physically/sexually abuse his kids or wife, I see no excuse for his son not occasionally speaking to him.
Hell, given how rich Prince is/will be, there's no excuse (again, short of serious abuse) for him not helping his father out financially. That could be done in a way that Cecil can't blow the money, like paying his rent or insurance directly.
As referenced in a link, Prince allowed Cecil to live with him. It's not like they never, ever talk. Cecil wants to be a part of his son's life, and Prince wants to protect his children. If Cecil just wanted to talk about baseball, or his golf game, or everyday stuff, they could probably build a relationship of some sort. But from what we hear, that's not what is going on.
And Cecil is an adult who didn't learn from his mistakes. No reason for Prince to poison his children with whatever Cecil has to offer.
Prince just recently got his big money. Before then, he wasn't super rich.
the keefe post, that is.
That's taking it way too far Sam. I agree you owe some loyalty to family, but you owe loyalty to good people over bad people first.
If a relative of mine commits a serious crime against an innocent, I have to side with the innocent.
Well, no, you haven't made yourself clear, because you said earlier that being family "absolve[s]" being a jerk. Maybe you don't know what the word "absolve" means, but it's incompatible with "punishment."
Frankly, your idea of how to treat these matters seems in line with what Prince is apparently doing and what others are endorsing. So what's your beef?
How the hell is Cecil's financial irresponsibility going to "poison" the life of his little grandchildren?
I had an uncle who was a really con man, stealing from many relatives, that didn't stop him from being a great uncle to me when I was little.
No sense arguing with someone who sees "duty and honor" as unquestioning tribalism.
As I said, I realize I am in the minority here, but I do not necessarily hold the good to be greater than the honorable or the dutiful. That is to say, I do not hold the good to be King of the Virtues. Plato was a fool.
Or so you think ... maybe he just conned you into thinking he was a great uncle. Did you ever really watch what he did with all those quarters behind your ear?
No it's not.
I don't know what Prince fielder is doing. Neither do you.
Oh. Damn you dictionary! Foiled me again!
Hence the word "apparently", a word routinely used by people who realize that their interpretation of events may be wrong.
There can be no absolution without contrition. There can be no contrition without some form of punishment.
I could speculate on any number of things. But it would be useless, because I lack sufficient information. I instead will look at what Cecil has done, what Prince has gone through, and trust that Prince is doing the right things based on his own life.
I guess the real question is, how much have you read about this, to truly understand what Prince is going through, and feel comfortable insulting him?
How is it honorable to side with the victimizer over the innocent victim based on some shared DNA?
That seems the exact opposite of honor to me.
Why do you have a duty based on shared DNA, but no duty based on what's right?
The way he whines about getting hit by a pitch that clearly got away from Jonny Venters, I'm quite comfortable insulting him.
Yes.
There can be no contrition without some form of punishment.
No.
You can be contrite over what you did, and be forgiven by someone with no punishment. It happens every day.
You seem comfortable insulting just about anybody, so that doesn't really mean much, does it?
Also, primey to #42 just on principle, one of Jack Keefe's best efforts in a while.
Abandoning a family member *is* the punishment from within the family. It's the family equivalent of the death penalty, or life in prison without parole. Or better yet, exile. Greek and Roman rulers used to exile their own relatives all of the time -- Augustus exiled his own daughter for immorality. It's classic, classical family behavior.
Also, we have no idea what Cecil Fielder was like to his son, outside of the financial shenanigans, the borderline theft, the gambling addiction, and the personal trainer. Maybe he's a guy who just made a few mistakes, maybe those mistakes were just the tip of the iceberg. We have no idea. It's ridiculous for us to start deciding what Prince Fielder should and should not do. (And it's ridiculous for Cecil Fielder to talk to the press about it.)
Keefe is a genius.
Explains why you're a Mets fan.
I had an uncle who was a really con man, stealing from many relatives, that didn't stop him from being a great uncle to me when I was little.
Or so you think ... maybe he just conned you into thinking he was a great uncle.
Hey, don't be too harsh on snapper now. It's not his fault that his parents were fleeced out of the money to put him through college.
I mean, you still talk to priests right?
Honor isn't a subset of justice.
Because that's the way the gods decreed it be.
That's a good argument.
That is so, completely, utterly misguided that I not only feel comfortable that I was correct in stating that you have no idea what "absolution" is, but that I had overestimated you even when I said that.
Absolution is an act of grace on the part of the absolver, not something earned by the offender. It's much more profound than simple forgiveness, which seems to be what you're mistaking it for, because forgiveness is still based on the acknowledgment of an offense. Absolution simply washes away that offense away as if it never happened.
Though it's worth pointing out that even your idea of forgiveness is very empty, since apparently in your view it's only something to be offered on very narrow terms. Of course forgiveness can be offered without contrition. People do it all the time. It's not an act of score-keeping and points-counting, like you describe.
Are priests in the habit of absolving sinners who have not confessed?
Priests are not in the habit of absolving anything (or at least shouldn't be). The absolution comes from God, not the priest.
And does this little god man absolve without confession?
If he knows what "absolution" means, then he does, yes.
I dare somebody to aregue with this.
I don't know if I'd characterize this as a failing, but it explains some of why Americans and those in other countries, particularly the middle east and central asia, absolutely do not "get" what the other is about. A lot of folks in other countries are horrorfied to find that older Americans are in assisted living and not living with the children. Americans get befuddled when the cash we send to Afghanistan and Iraq gets siphoned into the bank accounts of the ruler's extended family.
Nobody on this board knows exactly what went down between Prince and Cecil. Cecil is in the news today for helping with a youth baseball tournament, he didn't seek out a reporter to tell this story.
We save that for the World Series. (starts on post #310)
If in fact Cecil is genuinely looking to mend his relationship with Prince, he's doing a lousy job of it. Let's exclude the convenient fact that Prince is set to get what will likely be the biggest contract he ever gets. Cecil's comments still exhibit no personal growth or insight compared to the several articles about this subject from past years.
Whether this is how Cecil actually feels or if it was just poor wording on his part, his stance on this seems clear: I was not wrong and the only reason my son and I might be able to mend things up is because HE isn't as immature now that he's a father.
No one is arguing that Cecil did not care for Prince financially. But there's nothing here from Cecil that suggests a reconciliation between the two would happen because an admission or apology from Cecil about his past transgressions. Rather, it'd be a result of Prince going, "Sorry, dad, I've been an immature fool all of these years!"
Wow, I never knew that thread existed. The most interesting part to me is the fact that in the middle of the poetry discussion was a discussion on female cup sizes. Nice dichotomy there....
To the matter at hand, I think this squabble is similar to negotiating contracts through the media. It's generally just not a good idea....
The mountain may get you, but the law never will.
Forget Cecil, here is the REAL monster.
There was a story a few years ago about Cecil smacking around Prince's younger sister in public because he viewed her as being on her mother's "side" during the divorce. I think that has at least as much to do with Prince's alienation as the money thing (although it also stemmed from Cecil's financial mismanagement).
Here's the article from 2004. It's actually kind of chilling. Cecil says, "Ceclynn got out of line and said some grown folks' business." Keep in mind that his daughter was 12 years old at this time. After the incident, Prince said that Cecil wouldn't return his daughter's calls. This led Prince to say: "
That seems like a very mature take on the situation, especially for a 20 year old. He's worried about his young sister and his own child.
I'd be more impressed if you got the personalized autograph of 10 dogs.
He may not be "seeking forgiveness" if he's the one who feels wronged by Prince, no matter how much Cecil lied, cheated, stole from or abused is family. And I have no inkling that Cecil sees the fault as primarily his.
Prince has the best view, and he's chosen to shun his father. A sad situation, certainly, but one I will give Prince all of the benefit of the doubt on.
Prince has the best view, and he's chosen to shun his father. A sad situation, certainly, but one I will give Prince all of the benefit of the doubt on.
I never suggested that I was taking Cecil's side. I just think it's presumptuous for us to assume that he never apologized. Prince doesn't need our benefit of the doubt--he's entitled to handle this however he wants to, and it's really none of our business.
As is the fact that many fathers treat sons like garbage.
Wait, are you trying to sound smart?
And vice versa.
Unless you want to bring up some other story where this happened, so what? How or why is that relevant? Cecil treated his son like garbage, and this is why he's being treated this way by his son.
The opposite did not happen here, so I can't figure why you insist on saying so.
Snapper and Sam are just the site axxholes.
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