Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Monday, March 12, 2012

Chipper: “I Don’t Know if I Can Make it Through This Year”

“I’ve said it a million times, it’s hell getting old,” said Jones, who’ll be 40 next month and sounds as if he’s leaning increasingly toward retirement after this season.

His balky right knee is hurting even more than he thought it would. He went 0-for-3 on Monday and is 0-for-8 with three walks in four games this spring, having missed five games with leg soreness after playing the Grapefruit League opener.

“Tomorrow might be my last day,” he said “I don’t know. I don’t really focus on it that much. The body is starting to tell me every morning when I wake up that it’s getting close. I’m signed through the end of this year. If I play in a certain amount of games, I got an option for next year. I don’t know what next year entails.

“I don’t know if I can make it through this year.”

CFBF's Results are Certified Posted: March 12, 2012 at 08:40 PM | 86 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: braves

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. Benji Gil Gamesh VII - The Opt-Out Awakens Posted: March 12, 2012 at 09:11 PM (#4079371)
He's never had a bad year. I'd rather see him play sparingly but well than grind out most of a crappy season.

And I know these things don't really matter much, but I also would hate to see him surrender the career .300 average or .400 OBP.
   2. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: March 12, 2012 at 09:36 PM (#4079387)
And I know these things don't really matter much, but I also would hate to see him surrender the career .300 average or .400 OBP.

For the fans on this site, this is a true statement. To the msm and casual fans, that's a big deal. If he maintains those numbers his greatness is assured. .294 BA and .392 OBP, I believe, would definitely alter their opinion of his overall greatness.
   3. Sunday silence: Play Guess How long season lasts Posted: March 12, 2012 at 09:46 PM (#4079391)
Is he a sure fire hall of famer? I have no idea as I hardly watch regular season but from what I gather people think highly of his career.
   4. flournoy Posted: March 12, 2012 at 10:16 PM (#4079400)
Is #3 a joke?
   5. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: March 12, 2012 at 10:28 PM (#4079402)
#3 must be taking the piss. My overall point in #2 is that with the shiny numbers noted, in the minds of casual fans he's a slam dunk, first ballot HOFer. With slightly less attractive numbers they'll still him as a HOFer, but not as 1st ballot, slam dunk candidate.
   6. Dan Posted: March 12, 2012 at 10:30 PM (#4079403)
Chipper is one of the top reasons I wish the NL had the DH. Obviously the guy wants to be a career Brave, but it'd be cool to see him be able to stick around for a few more years DHing to stay healthier and more productive.
   7. Brian White Posted: March 12, 2012 at 10:31 PM (#4079404)
And I know these things don't really matter much, but I also would hate to see him surrender the career .300 average or .400 OBP.


If he has 500 ABs, he needs to hit .230 to keep his .300 batting average. Alternately, if he gets 600 PAs, he needs to needs an OBP of .367 to keep the OBP above .400. He'll certainly fall short of 500 ABs or 600 PAs, but the .400 OBP is still in doubt; I think the .300 average is fairly safe.

Not that it matters much; it won't really affect his slam dunk hall of fame case. But as a fan, I'd like to see him keep those marks, since .300/.400/.500 is just cool. Plus, you know, the team could really use a good season out of him.
   8. rb's team is hopeful for the new year! Posted: March 13, 2012 at 12:08 AM (#4079441)
Per #6, chipper has repeatedly stated his disdain for the DH, and for the concept of it. He even rejected the option earlier this spring when fredi asked if he wanted to do it in a couple of ST games.
   9. Tuque Posted: March 13, 2012 at 12:52 AM (#4079456)
He's never had a bad year.

Huh. That's actually true.

That actually seems kind of impressive. How many non-inner-circle types can boast to honestly never having a single bad year?
   10. Barnaby Jones Posted: March 13, 2012 at 01:11 AM (#4079461)
I still remember when Maddux's career ERA went over 3.00. I was despondent.
   11. Booey Posted: March 13, 2012 at 01:18 AM (#4079463)
Obviously the guy wants to be a career Brave, but it'd be cool to see him be able to stick around for a few more years DHing to stay healthier and more productive.

I think him staying with one team for his career is even cooler and just as important to the general public's perception of him as keeping the round numbers like .300 and .400 intact.

One team HOFers are a dying breed, and watching Smoltz give up that status as a shadow of his former self was just sad. Let's not have to see Chipper do the same.
   12. Ray (CTL) Posted: March 13, 2012 at 01:46 AM (#4079469)
49 games - 382 innings - as a SS.
   13. Ray (CTL) Posted: March 13, 2012 at 02:02 AM (#4079472)
One team HOFers are a dying breed,


Albert Pujols says hello.

Well, for another couple of weeks, anyway.

A "dying breed" compared to when?

Here are the stars of the past two decades who have been with one team:

Chipper
Bagwell
Jeter
Edgar
Biggio
Helton
Larkin
Ichiro
Bernie
Posada
Utley
Ripken
Mauer
Wright
Hanley
Cano
Howard
Braun
Rivera
Weaver
Lincecum
Caine
Lester
Hamels
Wainwright
Kershaw

How many "should" there be?
   14. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: March 13, 2012 at 02:07 AM (#4079475)
Hanley


Close, but not quite.

But otherwise, I agree. Single-team stars have always been rare. Even with the advent of FA, they haven't become meaningfully moreso.

   15. Booey Posted: March 13, 2012 at 02:42 AM (#4079483)
How many "should" there be?

Well, half the guys you mentioned won't make the HOF, and in all likelyhood most the active players you listed won't finish their careers with their original team. Hell, Kershaw won't even be 24 for another week. Way too early.

But otherwise, I agree. Single-team stars have always been rare. Even with the advent of FA, they haven't become meaningfully moreso.

Yeah, I know. Every generation probably makes statements like I did above. I certainly remember hearing it a lot in my youth, even though the 80's and 90's actually ended up having just as many as any other decade. That said, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say without any evidence that I really do think the trend may be decreasing in the next generation (once the Jeter/Rivera/Chipper/Ichiro/Helton batch retires). Just a feeling, and one that I'd be happy to be wrong about.

Oh, and keep your damn kids off my lawn.
   16. zachtoma Posted: March 13, 2012 at 03:55 AM (#4079488)
Oh Chipper is such a drama queen. By now I know that, coming from him, all this talk means is that he's having a bad week. He's not about to pull a Mike Schmidt. I'm guessing he'll grind out a year much like his last couple, 125 games, probably get some OBP back and lose some more SLG (reversing last year's trend), maybe BABIP will turn around and smile on him before he goes. I do think he is almost certainly retired at the end of this year.
   17. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: March 13, 2012 at 04:32 AM (#4079493)
How many non-inner-circle types can boast to honestly never having a single bad year?

Will Clark did it. So did Sid Fernandez (ignoring his 6 inning rookie season). Bobby Grich was 16-for-17.
   18. Dr. Vaux Posted: March 13, 2012 at 04:52 AM (#4079494)
It's hard to be a one-team HOFer unless you come up with a big-market team, but there's no reason why it shouldn't happen in that case sometimes.
   19. Srul Itza At Home Posted: March 13, 2012 at 04:53 AM (#4079495)
I absolutely hate Chipper Jones.

Despite the fact that he is one of my favorite players.

I think it some sort of Mets fan variant of Stockholm Syndrome.
   20. Walt Davis Posted: March 13, 2012 at 05:37 AM (#4079500)
I have no idea if the frequency of one-team players has gone up or not. When you define it strictly, probably not or not by much. But a lot of non-one-teamers of the past are pretty trivial exceptions (e.g. Mays, Aaron). If you play something like 90% of your career with one team, seems to me you're a one-teamer. I suspect 90%+ players were more common in the earlier era (for the obvious reason of the reserve clause).

As to Chipper, I hope he can stick around as a good player. How he'll be treated by the voters though ... I'm pretty sure he's 1st ballot but they are just so weird on 3B and the whole Bagwell/Edgar/Walker/McGriff thing has me a bit spooked. He's got the MVP which is big. Other than Puckett, is there another recent 1st ballot inductee without 500 HR or 3000 hits? Oops, Ozzie who was just after Puckett. Before that it's Morgan in 1990 and Bench in 89 -- OK not so long ago.

As to 300/400/500 -- c'mon, the "general public", the "msm" and the voters don't care about 400 or even 500 (as a SLG). 294/402/502 is surely worse than 302/398/495 from that perspective. Although both are in.
   21. Ron J Posted: March 13, 2012 at 06:01 AM (#4079502)
#20 David Grabiner produced a mini-study on player movement in 1997, but it ends at 1979. Still, even if it doesn't cover the current movement trends it will give a good picture of what is historically normal.

Study covered all players who played 15+ years:

A: Never played ten consecutive seasons with one team.
B: Played 10-14 consecutive seasons with one team, but not his first ten.
C: Played his first ten seasons with one team, but left before his fifteenth.
D: Played fifteen consecutive seasons with one team, but not his first fifteen.
E: Played his first fifteen seasons with one team, then finished up with another team.
F: Played his full career with one team.



Decade   Total     A    B    C    D    E    F   BCDEF   DEF
1900
's      24     7    3    9    2    2    1      17     5
1910'
s      43    16   12    7    1    7    0      27     8
1920
's      36    21    2    5    0    2    6      15     8
1930'
s      23    15    2    2    0    0    4       8     4
1940
's      37    17    1   11    0    6    2      20     8
1950'
s      35    16    3    4    1    4    7      19    12
1960
's      81    43    6   18    2    2   10      38    14
1970'
s      92    48   14   17    1    3    9      44    13
TOTALS     371   183   43   73    7   27   38     188    72 
   22. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: March 13, 2012 at 06:43 AM (#4079506)
Here are the stars of the past two decades who have been with one team:

Chipper
Bagwell
Jeter
Edgar
Biggio
Helton
Larkin
Ichiro
Bernie
Posada
Utley
Ripken
Mauer
Wright
Hanley
Cano
Howard
Braun
Rivera
Weaver
Lincecum
Caine
Lester
Hamels
Wainwright
Kershaw


Eclectic list. I assume it is off the cuff, otherwise why Kershaw and Not Verlander, or Cano and not Perdoia, or Ripken and not Gwynn.

Retired and locked in:

Bagwell
Edgar
Biggio
Larkin
Bernie
Posada
Ripken

Not yet retired, but highly likely to remain with one team:

Jeter
Rivera
Helton
Ichiro

As for the rest, most will not remain with one team, especially the pitchers.

Compare to 1980 (active and recently retired):

Yount
Schmidt
Palmer
Stargell
Brett
Bench
Concepcion
Trammell
Whitaker
Rice
Yaz
Brooks
Steve Rogers
Guidry
Scott McGregor
Dennis Leonard
Paul Splittorff
Bill Russell
Roy White
Bill Freehan
Tony Oliva
Bob Gibson

not to mention non-stars or not yet established stars like

Jim Gantner
John Hiller
Mario Soto
Frank White
John Wathan


   23. Dr. Vaux Posted: March 13, 2012 at 06:54 AM (#4079509)
Can anybody concoct a scenario in which Mariano doesn't finish his career with the Yankees?

The only thing I can think of is that he stinks for two consecutive years but still insists on playing. Even then, the Yankees may bring him back. I can't see him stinking or insisting on playing if he stunk, though. Maybe if the Yankees somehow fell way out of the race and some team offered a top prospect, but I tend to doubt that that could happen either. They could spin it as "of course Mo will always be a Yankee, but he's agreed to help XX in their playoff drive for the good of the Yankees organization."

I could see Ichiro! getting traded much more easily, though it's obviously really unlikely. But I could see him agreeing to go to a team like the Angels or Dodgers.
   24. Davo Posted: March 13, 2012 at 07:55 AM (#4079517)
On the idiosyncratic side, Braves have never had a great player spend his entire career with their franchise.

It's true. Hell, they've never even had a particularly good player spend his whole career with them.

The best player who played ONLY for the Braves is..... Rick Camp (56-49 for 9 seasons--2-time All Star).

So Chipper Jones REALLY needs to retire with the Braves. If only to prevent that ignominy!
   25. Rancischley Leweschquens (Tim Wallach was my Hero) Posted: March 13, 2012 at 08:15 AM (#4079525)
Braves have never had a great player spend his entire career with their franchise.

At first, I thought Eddie Mathews could be that guy. But I did not remember he had played for Houston and Detroit at the end of his career. He's still the only player who has played with the Boston, Milwaukee, and Atlanta Braves.
   26. Ray (CTL) Posted: March 13, 2012 at 08:15 AM (#4079526)
That said, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say without any evidence that I really do think the trend may be decreasing in the next generation (once the Jeter/Rivera/Chipper/Ichiro/Helton batch retires). Just a feeling, and one that I'd be happy to be wrong about.


That's kind of like saying that nobody will ever get to 300 wins again.

It seems to me that stars are getting longer contracts now than ever before.

-------

SOSH, good call on Hanley R. I didn't realize he had 2 PAs with the Red Sox.

------

Yeah, Misirlou, my list was kind of off the cuff. I scanned down a WAR list and plucked the names.
   27. SteveM. Posted: March 13, 2012 at 09:07 AM (#4079549)
I am one year older then Chipper. This talk about retirement is making me feel old. Its a good thing Jamie Moyer is still around to bring that youthful feeling.He is the one player I can turn to my 14 year old son and say I was a teenager when he debuted.
   28. Dan Szymborski Posted: March 13, 2012 at 09:50 AM (#4079575)
It's amazing how much more loyal players were to their team back when they had no other choice. This is hardly unique - the 12th century working class in England was extremely loyal, too, and the US had an entire agricultural segment of the economy based on loyalty, which seemed to fade roughly 150 years ago for some undetermined reason.
   29. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: March 13, 2012 at 10:00 AM (#4079580)
US had an entire agricultural segment of the economy based on loyalty, which seemed to fade roughly 150 years ago for some undetermined reason.


That sharecropping shur' nuff had dem folks free to go whereever they chose. Between that and the Jim Crow laws, sometimes I think the South won the Civil War.
   30. Davo Posted: March 13, 2012 at 10:01 AM (#4079584)
The Braves have never had a great player spend his entire career with their franchise.

At first, I thought Eddie Mathews could be that guy. But I did not remember he had played for Houston and Detroit at the end of his career. He's still the only player who has played with the Boston, Milwaukee, and Atlanta Braves.

My nomination of Rick Camp wasn't a joke--he really may be the best player who spent his whole career with the Braves. I can't find a great way to search it on BB-Ref, but I haven't seen anyone with a higher total...and when you're checking Bob Horner's and Tobie Pittinger's career records, you've combed it pretty carefully.
   31. flournoy Posted: March 13, 2012 at 10:08 AM (#4079594)
The best career Brave is indeed Rick Camp. Second place is Bruce Benedict. Third place might be Biff Pocoroba.
   32. The Good Face Posted: March 13, 2012 at 10:09 AM (#4079595)
Can anybody concoct a scenario in which Mariano doesn't finish his career with the Yankees?

The only thing I can think of is that he stinks for two consecutive years but still insists on playing. Even then, the Yankees may bring him back. I can't see him stinking or insisting on playing if he stunk, though. Maybe if the Yankees somehow fell way out of the race and some team offered a top prospect, but I tend to doubt that that could happen either. They could spin it as "of course Mo will always be a Yankee, but he's agreed to help XX in their playoff drive for the good of the Yankees organization."


Mariano has been dropping hints this spring training that 2012 will be his last year. Yeah, you can't take athlete retirement announcements seriously, but I'd be surprised if Mariano wanted to stick around after he started sucking, considering he's hinting retirement now while he's still almost as good as he ever was.
   33. Bourbon Samurai stays in the fight Posted: March 13, 2012 at 10:17 AM (#4079602)
Huh, I would've bet Warren Spahn was a Brave his whole career, but look there he went 7-16 splitting a season between the Mets and the Giants.
   34. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: March 13, 2012 at 10:19 AM (#4079604)
My nomination of Rick Camp wasn't a joke--he really may be the best player who spent his whole career with the Braves. I can't find a great way to search it on BB-Ref, but I haven't seen anyone with a higher total...and when you're checking Bob Horner's and Tobie Pittinger's career records, you've combed it pretty carefully.


Of the original 16, only the Braves and A's have no HOFer. Most post expansion teams have someone better than Camp*: Brewers, Padres, Angels, Mariners, Astros, Royals, Natspos, Mets. Chipper should rectify that. Meanwhile, the A's search for someone better than Eddie Rommel.

*Not sure who the best Blue Jay is, and it's pointless to look for the best from the 90's teams, though the Rox may get Helton.
   35. SoSH U at work Posted: March 13, 2012 at 10:23 AM (#4079609)
It's amazing how much more loyal players were to their team back when they had no other choice.


On the other hand, players now have a legitimate choice about not leaving, which is one reason the incidence of single-team players has not declined as has long been anticipated.

   36. SoSH U at work Posted: March 13, 2012 at 10:26 AM (#4079611)
Of the original 16, only the Braves and A's have no HOFer. Most post expansion teams have someone better than Camp*: Brewers, Padres, Angels, Mariners, Astros, Royals, Natspos, Mets.


Who is the best lifetime Met, retired division? Eddie Kranepool has a much longer career than Camp, but he wasn't better than him. And I don't know who else would qualify that had a better career than Rick.
   37. JJ1986 Posted: March 13, 2012 at 10:28 AM (#4079615)
Brewers, Padres, Angels, Mariners, Astros, Royals, Natspos, Mets.


Who is the Met?

edit: coke to SoSH.
   38. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: March 13, 2012 at 10:30 AM (#4079616)
Who is the best lifetime Met, retired division? Eddie Kranepool has a much longer career than Camp, but he wasn't better.


I suppose you're right. Off the top of my head, I figured 18 years and 6,000 PA would count for something. Still, the Braves have a nearly 100 year head start and all they can do is just beat out Ed Kranepool.
   39. flournoy Posted: March 13, 2012 at 10:52 AM (#4079636)
So who's the Rangers' guy? Rusty Greer? Roger Pavlik?

I'm assuming the guys for the teams listed in 34 are Yount, Gwynn, Salmon, Martinez, Bagwell/Biggio, Brett, Rogers, and Kranepool. The Brewers get Gantner, too, but it seems inappropriate to list him alongside Yount.
   40. PreservedFish Posted: March 13, 2012 at 11:01 AM (#4079648)
John Stearns is 2 Philly PA short of besting Camp.
   41. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: March 13, 2012 at 11:05 AM (#4079652)
Steve Rogers towers over everyone else who spent their whole career with the Expos/Nationals like Chipper Jones will soon tower over Camp and Benedict and Pocoroba. And he shouldn't count anyway, being Captain America, not Captain Canada.

Who's the next-best lifetime Natspo, who isn't an active player? Ernie McAnally? Peter Bergeron?
   42. The Good Face Posted: March 13, 2012 at 11:13 AM (#4079659)
So who's the Rangers' guy? Rusty Greer? Roger Pavlik?


Probably Michael Young. He's not a great player, but he's got almost 7400 PAs as a Ranger. Of course, unless he retires after his contract expires in 2013, he'll probably wind up going someplace else to pursue 3000 hits. I can't see Texas bringing him back unless he's willing to take a huge pay cut.

Ian Kinsler has almost as much career WAR as Young in less than half the PAs, and is on target for a HoVG career, but he's probably too young to bring into the discussion.
   43. flournoy Posted: March 13, 2012 at 11:19 AM (#4079669)
I exclude all active players for this kind of discussion.

And how quickly they forget Tavo Alvarez, perhaps the fourth best career Expo!
   44. Bob Meta-Meusel Posted: March 13, 2012 at 11:23 AM (#4079672)
Huh, I would've bet Warren Spahn was a Brave his whole career, but look there he went 7-16 splitting a season between the Mets and the Giants.


The easy way to remember is from this Spahn quote: "I'm probably the only guy who worked for (Casey) Stengel before and after he was a genius." Source: Sports Illustrated (August 20, 1973)
   45. Random Transaction Generator Posted: March 13, 2012 at 11:27 AM (#4079675)
*Not sure who the best Blue Jay is, and it's pointless to look for the best from the 90's teams, though the Rox may get Helton.


Just quickly perusing Blue Jays top 50 lists, the highest WAR for a position player that's only played for the Blue Jays is Adam Lind (4.9 WAR over 2534 PA). He ranks #40 on that list and there isn't anyone else in the top 50 that has played for just the Jays. There aren't any non-active Blue Jays in the top 50 WAR who have played ONLY for the Jays. Using the play index, I found the top retired Jays-only position player:
Garth Iorg (1.8 WAR over 2615 PA).

For the pitchers, it's Rickey Romero (11.5 WAR in 613IP). After that, it's Luis Leal (10.1 in 946IP), as he's the top retired Jays-only pitcher.

Ugh.

   46. alkeiper Posted: March 13, 2012 at 11:30 AM (#4079683)
Played for played the most games for ONE team in their careers:

ARI: Chris Young
ATL: Chipper Jones
BOS: Cal Ripken
BOS: Carl Yastrzemski
CHC: Ernie Banks
CWS: Luke Appling
CIN: Dave Concepcion
CLE: Jack Graney
COL: Todd Helton
DET: Al Kaline
FLA: Gaby Sanchez
HOU: Craig Biggio
KCR: George Brett
LAA: Tim Salmon
LAD: Bill Russell
MIL: Robin Yount
MIN: Clyde Milan (Kirby Puckett for Minnesota only)
NYM: Ed Kranepool
NYY: Derek Jeter
OAK: Pete Suder
PHI: Mike Schmidt
PIT: Roberto Clemente
SDP: Tony Gwynn
SFG: Mel Ott (Jim Davenport for San Francisco only)
SEA: Edgar Martinez
STL: Stan Musial
TBR: B.J. Upton
TEX: Mike Young
TOR: Garth Iorg
WAS: Ryan Zimmerman

Clearly the worst franchises at retaining talent are (were) the Expos, Marlins and Athletics. The player who played the most games for only the Expos was Coco Loboy, barely edging out Steve Rogers. The third player on the A's list is Kurt Suzuki!

Quickest way to check, B-Ref has team player registers. Toronto Blue Jays. Click the stat to sort by, and then "C".
   47. SoSH U at work Posted: March 13, 2012 at 11:34 AM (#4079686)
Edit: Answered by al's edit.


   48. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: March 13, 2012 at 11:36 AM (#4079689)
And how quickly they forget Tavo Alvarez, perhaps the fourth best career Expo!


No way, on the lifetime Expos top ten he's ahead of Razor Shines, Brad Mills, and Trace Coquillette, but behind Rogers, McAnally, Bergeron, Coco Laboy, Bill Atkinson, and T.J. Tucker.
   49. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: March 13, 2012 at 11:40 AM (#4079694)
So who's the Rangers' guy? Rusty Greer? Roger Pavlik?


Yeah, Rusty Greer.

I'm assuming the guys for the teams listed in 34 are Yount, Gwynn, Salmon, Martinez, Bagwell/Biggio, Brett, Rogers, and Kranepool. The Brewers get Gantner, too, but it seems inappropriate to list him alongside Yount.


The Royals also have Frank White, Dennis Leonard, and Paul Splittorff.

The Astros also have Don Wilson and J.R. Richard
   50. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: March 13, 2012 at 11:41 AM (#4079696)
Clearly the worst franchises at retaining talent are (were) the Expos, Marlins and Athletics.

The Athletics make up for it by attracting the cream of the crop among players who are about to retire.
   51. donlock Posted: March 13, 2012 at 12:00 PM (#4079714)
#46:
ARI: Chris Young
ATL: Chipper Jones
BOS: Cal Ripken
BOS: Carl Yastrzemski
CHC: Ernie Banks

How come Yaz and Ripken both played for the RedSox and they still sucked?

   52. Random Transaction Generator Posted: March 13, 2012 at 12:12 PM (#4079726)
So looking at al's list, the following players are HOF:

BAL: Cal Ripken
BOS: Carl Yastrzemski
CHC: Ernie Banks
CWS: Luke Appling
DET: Al Kaline
KCR: George Brett
MIL: Robin Yount
MIN: Kirby Puckett
PHI: Mike Schmidt
PIT: Roberto Clemente
SDP: Tony Gwynn
SFG: Mel Ott
STL: Stan Musial

The following players are near-locks for the HOF:

ATL: Chipper Jones
HOU: Craig Biggio
NYY: Derek Jeter

That's 16 of the 30 franchises.
   53. SoSH U at work Posted: March 13, 2012 at 12:17 PM (#4079729)
That's 16 of the 30 franchises.


Well, that's 16 of 30 franchises that have their career games played leader in the Hall (or going in). Three others have at least one Hall of Famers who has played his entire career for the franchise (Cincinnati-Bench, Cleveland-Feller, Dodgers-Jackie, among others).

   54. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: March 13, 2012 at 12:42 PM (#4079772)
The Indians are an outlier--only one of their top 25* (in games played) batters played exclusively with the Tribe. But 3 of their top 4 pitchers did (Harder, Feller, and Lemon)

*selective endpoint--Al Rosen is #26
   55. Rally Posted: March 13, 2012 at 01:03 PM (#4079815)
Per #6, chipper has repeatedly stated his disdain for the DH, and for the concept of it. He even rejected the option earlier this spring when fredi asked if he wanted to do it in a couple of ST games.


If Chipper were not already a slam dunk first ballot HOFer, but a borderline guy, this would push him over the border for me.

How come Yaz and Ripken both played for the RedSox and they still sucked?


If that were true I'd go with Yaz being 42 years old when Ripken was a rookie. In truth, the Red Sox came up with a player equal to Ripken's greatness in the same 1982 season, Wade Boggs.
   56. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: March 13, 2012 at 01:12 PM (#4079831)
I've read TFA linked above on three or four different sources now, and every time it seems to me to be an guy exhausted and hurting from another day of trying to make his 40 year old body forget that it is 40 years old being asked by some schmuck in the locker room "So, how many more years you planning on playing, Chip? Got another contract in you?!"
   57. Bob Evans Posted: March 13, 2012 at 01:29 PM (#4079862)
deleted due to stupidity
   58. Booey Posted: March 13, 2012 at 01:41 PM (#4079883)
That's kind of like saying that nobody will ever get to 300 wins again.

Yeah, except that I never said no one would ever make the HOF as a one team player again. Of course they will. I just said that I expect there to be fewer going forward. So really it's more like someone saying that there will be fewer 300 game winners than there used to be, which very well may be the truth.

If you want to track me down in 15-20 years and show me that I'm wrong, I'll gladly concede your point. :)

(on second thought, please don't track me down. That's just creepy)
   59. Rants Mulliniks Posted: March 13, 2012 at 01:43 PM (#4079888)
He's still the only player who has played with the Boston, Milwaukee, and Atlanta Braves.


I'd say his record is pretty safe.


...and Chipper Jones always looks to me like he just got done ten rounds of boxing.
   60. Greg Pope Posted: March 13, 2012 at 02:13 PM (#4079935)
I've read TFA linked above on three or four different sources now, and every time it seems to me to be an guy exhausted and hurting from another day of trying to make his 40 year old body forget that it is 40 years old being asked by some schmuck in the locker room "So, how many more years you planning on playing, Chip? Got another contract in you?!"

From Rotoworld:

Chipper Jones has clarified that the comments he made Monday about an early retirement were in jest.

"I don’t know if I can make it through this year," Chipper joked with a couple of reporters on Monday. Those comments were taken out of context, unfortunately. "It was tongue and cheek," Jones insisted on Tuesday. "I was kidding. I just got done playing eight innings with three at-bats. I was a little tired. I wasn’t by any means suggesting I couldn’t make it through the season. If I didn’t think that I could, I wouldn’t be out there."
   61. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: March 13, 2012 at 04:33 PM (#4080096)
Chipper Jones has clarified that the comments he made Monday about an early retirement were in jest.


I suspect that a lot of national reporters who don't talk to Chipper on a daily basis don't understand that he is pretty much always speaking with some sort of sarcasm or smarm. It's his most basic affect.
   62. Karl from NY Posted: March 13, 2012 at 05:52 PM (#4080173)
Still, the Braves have a nearly 100 year head start and all they can do is just beat out Ed Kranepool.

Not winning this competition isn't a bad thing, right? The Braves have had plenty of historically great careers. Would they look better if they'd hung on to a washed-up Aaron, Spahn, Glavine, or Smoltz for longer?
   63. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: March 13, 2012 at 08:59 PM (#4080254)
The Yankees have by far the most impressive list of one teamers, but the Tigers aren't bad. They are the only team besides the Yankees who can come close to a creditable team of one teamers: Freehan, Whitaker, Gehringer (one of these 2 will play 3rd), Trammell, Mickey Stanley, Bobby Higginson, and Al Kaline, plus a rotation of Tommy Bridges, Hooks Dauss, Fred Hutchinson, Vic Sorrell, and Jeremy Bonderman, and John Hiller at closer. Can't for the life of me find a first or third baseman though.
   64. Colin Posted: March 13, 2012 at 09:21 PM (#4080266)
Back to one of the early points - seems like Chipper's dad was a huge Mickey Mantle fan (leading to Chipper being a switch hitter). So, I'm sure they're at least somewhat aware of how a final season can kill a career .300 BA. But, I suspect that doesn't so much matter to Chipper.
   65. Sweatpants Posted: March 13, 2012 at 09:27 PM (#4080272)
Freehan, Whitaker, Gehringer (one of these 2 will play 3rd), Trammell, Mickey Stanley, Bobby Higginson, and Al Kaline, plus a rotation of Tommy Bridges, Hooks Dauss, Fred Hutchinson, Vic Sorrell, and Jeremy Bonderman, and John Hiller at closer. Can't for the life of me find a first or third baseman though.
It's kind of cheating, but you can play Freehan at first and put Boss Schmidt on the team as catcher. Freehan has enough games at first for it not to be much of a stretch.
   66. Davo Posted: March 13, 2012 at 09:33 PM (#4080276)
Still, the Braves have a nearly 100 year head start and all they can do is just beat out Ed Kranepool.

Not winning this competition isn't a bad thing, right?
I don't know if it's good or bad. I just think it's really, really weird.
   67. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: March 14, 2012 at 12:02 AM (#4080350)
They are the only team besides the Yankees who can come close to a creditable team of one teamers: Freehan, Whitaker, Gehringer (one of these 2 will play 3rd), Trammell, Mickey Stanley, Bobby Higginson, and Al Kaline, plus a rotation of Tommy Bridges, Hooks Dauss, Fred Hutchinson, Vic Sorrell, and Jeremy Bonderman, and John Hiller at closer. Can't for the life of me find a first or third baseman though.


With just a little fudging, the Red Sox field a damn good lineup: C - Varitek, 1B - Yaz, 2B - Doerr, 3B - Tim Naehring, SS - Rico Petrocelli, LF - Williams, CF - Dom Dimaggio, RF - Rice (this is the fudging, though he did play a handful of games there). Pitching staff is considerably weaker, but not embarrassing: Mel Parnell, Tex Hughson, Ray Collins, Dave Ferriss and Tom Brewer, with Bob Stanley in the pen. If you want a DH, slot Williams in there and let Greenwell play left.

   68. Ron J Posted: March 14, 2012 at 12:36 AM (#4080358)
Can't for the life of me find a first or third baseman though.


Bill James wrote a pretty good article about Tiger third-basemen over the years. He did undersell Don Wert a tad though.

Sadly Wert doesn't qualify. 20 games in Washington where he put up a -31 OPS+ (.050/.156/.075)

Bob Jones is impressive in his own way. A career Tiger. 9 years as a semi-regular. 3.9 WAR.

The only reason I know about Jones is that James pretty much calls him the Wert of the 20s. A little bit unfair to Wert but not a lot. As with Wert, Jones often lost his spot because he wasn't hitting. But at least Wert was a highly regarded defensive player while Jones seems to have been just OK.







   69. CFBF's Results are Certified Posted: March 14, 2012 at 01:08 AM (#4080363)
I suspect that a lot of national reporters who don't talk to Chipper on a daily basis don't understand that he is pretty much always speaking with some sort of sarcasm or smarm. It's his most basic affect.


Well, the link is to Dave O'Brien, who's probably spent way, way too much time talking to Chipper over the years. And DOB didn't seem to think Chip was being funny in his piece. It's possible O'Brien got the tone wrong; he's hardly flawless. My guess is that Chipper said exactly what was on his mind at the time of the question, and then walked the comments back when he didn't feel that way any more.
   70. vortex of dissipation Posted: March 14, 2012 at 02:29 AM (#4080378)
With just a little fudging, the Red Sox field a damn good lineup: C - Varitek, 1B - Yaz, 2B - Doerr, 3B - Tim Naehring, SS - Rico Petrocelli, LF - Williams, CF - Dom Dimaggio, RF - Rice (this is the fudging, though he did play a handful of games there). Pitching staff is considerably weaker, but not embarrassing: Mel Parnell, Tex Hughson, Ray Collins, Dave Ferriss and Tom Brewer, with Bob Stanley in the pen. If you want a DH, slot Williams in there and let Greenwell play left.


Williams was the regular right fielder as a rookie. Played 149 games there.
   71. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: March 14, 2012 at 05:37 AM (#4080397)
Hell, Williams should be the Opening Day pitcher. Lifetime 116 ERA+!
   72. Davo Posted: March 14, 2012 at 09:24 AM (#4080442)
I wouldn't be surprised if Varitek winds up being ineligible for this team. Just a hunch. I see him making a triumphant 30-game return as the backup catcher for the Diamondbacks in 2013.
   73. Karl from NY Posted: March 14, 2012 at 10:24 AM (#4080474)
I don't know if it's good or bad. I just think it's really, really weird.

It's not weird at all. It just means the Braves franchise doesn't hang on to washed up veterans, cutting them loose sooner instead of a year too late.
   74. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: March 14, 2012 at 10:53 AM (#4080499)
Well, the link is to Dave O'Brien, who's probably spent way, way too much time talking to Chipper over the years.


No one will ever accuse DOB of being the sharpest tool in the shed, I guess. And yeah, I'm sure some of it is Chipper being a bit of a drama queen, as usual.
   75. bunyon Posted: March 14, 2012 at 10:58 AM (#4080507)
Hell, I'm Chipper's age and I'm not sure I'll get through another year of my job.
   76. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: March 14, 2012 at 11:01 AM (#4080510)
Would they look better if they'd hung on to a washed-up Aaron, Spahn, Glavine, or Smoltz for longer?


But they got Glavine back for his genuinely washed-up swan song season, so I'm not sure how much shrewdness is at play here.
   77. Qufini Posted: March 14, 2012 at 11:10 AM (#4080517)
TOR: Garth Iorg


I had no idea that Dave Stieb pitched 4 games for the White Sox. That stinks. He would have been a worthy representative if not for that.
   78. Qufini Posted: March 14, 2012 at 11:12 AM (#4080519)
With just a little fudging, the Red Sox field a damn good lineup: C - Varitek, 1B - Yaz, 2B - Doerr, 3B - Tim Naehring, SS - Rico Petrocelli, LF - Williams, CF - Dom Dimaggio, RF - Rice (this is the fudging, though he did play a handful of games there). Pitching staff is considerably weaker, but not embarrassing: Mel Parnell, Tex Hughson, Ray Collins, Dave Ferriss and Tom Brewer, with Bob Stanley in the pen. If you want a DH, slot Williams in there and let Greenwell play left.

Williams played more games in RF than Rice, 169 to 44.
   79. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: March 14, 2012 at 11:17 AM (#4080525)
Williams played more games in RF than Rice, 169 to 44.


Sure, but either way, it's fudging. All of the rest of the guys spent substantial time at the position they're listed at (though obviously Yaz was much more leftfielder than first basemen). Neither Teddy nor Rice spent enough time in right to be considered rightfielders.
   80. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: March 14, 2012 at 12:23 PM (#4080590)
But they got Glavine back for his genuinely washed-up swan song season, so I'm not sure how much shrewdness is at play here.


To be fair, it was either take a flier on post-Mets Glavine or hope Jorge Campillo or Buddy Carlyle "worked out." 2008 was not a good season for the Braves.
   81. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: March 14, 2012 at 01:18 PM (#4080674)
To be fair, it was either take a flier on post-Mets Glavine or hope Jorge Campillo or Buddy Carlyle "worked out." 2008 was not a good season for the Braves.


They were worse in 1975, the year they traded Hank back to Milwaukee*.

I'm just not seeing Karl's point. The Braves, for varying and mostly coincidental reasons, have not had a single one of their greats play his entire career for the franchise. It's not due to a ruthless but efficient habit of cutting bait when guys got slightly long in the tooth.

* And I was under the impression at the time the club did so because Hank wanted to.

   82. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: March 14, 2012 at 02:20 PM (#4080730)
I'm just not seeing Karl's point. The Braves, for varying and mostly coincidental reasons, have not had a single one of their greats play his entire career for the franchise. It's not due to a ruthless but efficient habit of cutting bait when guys got slightly long in the tooth.


I think it's just an anecdote of historical weirdness, not a statement about the franchise or it's business practices. The Braves are a well traveled franchise, going from Boston to Milwaukee to Atlanta. They've only been in Atlanta since 1966. The first generation of Atlanta Braves, including Hank and Eddie, were Milwaukee Braves more than anything else. There's no reason for them not to take one last swan song somewhere outside of Atlanta.

The prime candidates for great players who might have been lifelong Atlanta Braves is pretty short. By my count, it's Dale Murphy, Tom Glavine, John Smoltz and Chipper Jones. Murph was traded (at his request, by his telling of the tale) in a rebuild process in the late 80s. Glavine chased the big contract in NYC (and made the union happy even if he wasn't.) Smoltz got his panties in wad at the end and decided he wanted a year in Boston to prove the Braves were wrong about his shoulder being done. (They were not.)

I think, more than anything, Chipper's resolution to retire a Brave is driven by having watched Glavine and Smoltz after they exited their home system. Chipper's a redneck, but he is *not* stupid. He knows how Glavine was greeted in NY (even when he was doing quality work at the front end of that contract.) He knows how bad Smoltz looked in chasing the Red Sox money and essentially making a fool of himself in his last year. And he knows how valuable the "always played for the same team" bullet can be when dealing with BBWAA voters in five or six years.

And he also knows the he is too old to try to mold himself into the ways and processes of another franchise, one that does not still run on the primal imprint of Bobby Cox. And he has no interest in that at all.

If he manages to kick in the riders for next year's contract, he won't walk away from a few extra million. If he doesn't, he'll retire. I doubt he would ever consider another contract after 2013, with any team, including Atlanta.
   83. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: March 14, 2012 at 02:34 PM (#4080743)
I think it's just an anecdote of historical weirdness, not a statement about the franchise or it's business practices. The Braves are a well traveled franchise, going from Boston to Milwaukee to Atlanta. They've only been in Atlanta since 1966. The first generation of Atlanta Braves, including Hank and Eddie, were Milwaukee Braves more than anything else. There's no reason for them not to take one last swan song somewhere outside of Atlanta.

The prime candidates for great players who might have been lifelong Atlanta Braves is pretty short. By my count, it's Dale Murphy, Tom Glavine, John Smoltz and Chipper Jones. Murph was traded (at his request, by his telling of the tale) in a rebuild process in the late 80s. Glavine chased the big contract in NYC (and made the union happy even if he wasn't.) Smoltz got his panties in wad at the end and decided he wanted a year in Boston to prove the Braves were wrong about his shoulder being done. (They were not.)


First of all, it's not just the Atlanta Braves, but every incarnation of the Braves going back to 1871. And in your second paragraph, you left out Phil Niekro, who was released by the Braves after 1983 and went on to win 50 more games.

And it's not just the great players, it's the good ones as well. Glen Hubbard, Del Crandall, Johnny Logan, Fred Tenney, Mark Lemke...All long time Braves who then played a year or 2 as a part timer on another team.
   84. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: March 14, 2012 at 04:50 PM (#4080864)
First of all, it's not just the Atlanta Braves, but every incarnation of the Braves going back to 1871. And in your second paragraph, you left out Phil Niekro, who was released by the Braves after 1983 and went on to win 50 more games.

And it's not just the great players, it's the good ones as well. Glen Hubbard, Del Crandall, Johnny Logan, Fred Tenney, Mark Lemke...All long time Braves who then played a year or 2 as a part timer on another team.


I'll give you Niekro. Forgot about Knucksie. Glen Hubbard, maybe. Lemke? Should have retired a Brave. Was obviously done. Not sure about the others.

I think it's just one of those oddities more than anything else. It's like the Mets not having a no-hitter. It's not like they never had the talent to do it, it just never sorted itself out that way.
   85. Something Other Posted: March 14, 2012 at 09:17 PM (#4081057)
Here are the stars of the past two decades who have been with one team:

Chipper
Bagwell
Jeter
Edgar
Biggio
Helton
Larkin
Ichiro
Bernie
Posada
Utley
Ripken
Mauer
Wright
Hanley
Cano
Howard
Braun
Rivera
Weaver
Lincecum
Caine
Lester
Hamels
Wainwright
Kershaw

How many "should" there be?

More. Always, more.
   86. bigglou115 is not an Illuminati agent Posted: March 14, 2012 at 09:48 PM (#4081080)
Apparently DOB didn't even talk to Chipper or hear the comment first hand, he just reported second hand info without asking Chipper to clarify. That sounds about par for the course.

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Dynasty League Baseball

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
cardsfanboy
for his generous support.

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogOT - November* 2020 College Football thread
(255 - 8:16pm, Dec 05)
Last: Lance Reddick! Lance him!

NewsblogTexas Rangers name ex-pitcher Chris Young as new GM
(12 - 8:13pm, Dec 05)
Last: JimMusComp likes Billy Eppler....

NewsblogOrioles trade veteran infielder José Iglesias to Los Angeles Angels, report says
(37 - 7:36pm, Dec 05)
Last: What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face?

NewsblogOT - Soccer Thread - Winter Is Here
(273 - 7:21pm, Dec 05)
Last: Mefisto

Hall of MeritMost Meritorious Player: 2020 Ballot
(9 - 6:28pm, Dec 05)
Last: DL from MN

NewsblogEmpty Stadium Sports Will Be Really Weird
(10758 - 6:09pm, Dec 05)
Last: base ball chick

NewsblogThe Athletic: How FanGraphs catapulted from ‘super nerd’ site to the baseball mainstream [$]
(3 - 5:46pm, Dec 05)
Last: snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster)

NewsblogBill James: The Biggest Problem With WAR
(152 - 5:42pm, Dec 05)
Last: What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face?

NewsblogPrimer Dugout (and link of the day) 12-3-2020
(14 - 5:38pm, Dec 05)
Last: snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster)

NewsblogLet's Rethink the Playoffs
(21 - 4:54pm, Dec 05)
Last: sunday silence (again)

NewsblogIs the Hall leaving out too many players?
(130 - 4:28pm, Dec 05)
Last: alilisd

NewsblogLen Kasper is leaving Marquee Sports Network... for White Sox radio
(45 - 2:53pm, Dec 05)
Last: Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB)

NewsblogStaten Island Yankees cease operations, sue New York Yankees, MLB
(39 - 12:49pm, Dec 05)
Last: Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB)

NewsblogMLB non-tender deadline tracker: Yankees will keep Gary Sanchez; White Sox, Twins, Cubs make notable cuts
(39 - 1:20am, Dec 05)
Last: Lowry Seasoning Salt

NewsblogSources: Isiah Kiner-Falefa to replace mainstay Elvis Andrus as starting Rangers shortstop next season
(26 - 10:12pm, Dec 04)
Last: Infinite Yost (Voxter)

Page rendered in 0.6301 seconds
48 querie(s) executed