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Sunday, December 13, 2020

Cleveland baseball team will drop ‘Indians’ name as early as this week according to report

he 2021 season will be the last that a baseball team plays as the “Indians” in Cleveland according to a report Sunday by the New York Times.

A team source confirmed to cleveland.com that the club will announce this week its intention to play under the same name and uniforms through 2021, but will drop the “Indians” name after the upcoming season. A new name has not yet been decided.

The Times report indicated the club is considering moving forward without a replacement name. That move would mirror the situation in Washington, where the city’s NFL franchise dropped its longtime “Redskins” moniker prior to the 2020 season and is playing as the “Washington Football Team” until a new name is chosen.

Indians president of baseball operations Chris Antonetti said on Dec. 3 that the club was working through a process that could eventually lead to a name change.

RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: December 13, 2020 at 09:43 PM | 277 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   1. The Duke Posted: December 13, 2020 at 09:46 PM (#5993957)
I guess the Padres are next
   2. Brian C Posted: December 13, 2020 at 09:53 PM (#5993959)
I guess the Cleveland Mistakes by the Lake is unwieldy, but it does have historical resonance.
   3. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: December 13, 2020 at 09:55 PM (#5993960)

The Times report indicated the club is considering moving forward without a replacement name. That move would mirror the situation in Washington, where the city’s NFL franchise dropped its longtime “Redskins” moniker prior to the 2020 season and is playing as the “Washington Football Team” until a new name is chosen.


I will admit, "Cleveland Football Team" isn't too bad.
   4. we all water; we all 57i66135 Posted: December 13, 2020 at 09:55 PM (#5993961)
Indians president of baseball operations Chris Antonetti said on Dec. 3 that the club was working through a process that could eventually lead to a name change.
that phrasing seems gratuitous in light of the article's subject matter.
   5. we all water; we all 57i66135 Posted: December 13, 2020 at 09:59 PM (#5993962)
here's a picture of larry doby, who was the first african american to play in the AL. i would direct your attention to his left sleeve.


the history of this is not worth defending.
   6. Mayor Blomberg Posted: December 13, 2020 at 10:02 PM (#5993963)
Burning Rivers? The Flos?

Anyway, good move.
   7. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: December 13, 2020 at 10:13 PM (#5993966)
Better late than never.
   8. The Duke Posted: December 13, 2020 at 10:31 PM (#5993968)
The Hots in Cleveland, the 216s, the rocknrollers
   9. Adam Starblind Posted: December 13, 2020 at 10:36 PM (#5993969)
The answer is the Cleveland Spiders. Duh.
   10. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: December 13, 2020 at 10:49 PM (#5993971)
Gee, I wonder how this thread’s gonna go.
   11. depletion Posted: December 13, 2020 at 10:58 PM (#5993972)
Forest Citys. It’s aged like fine wine for 151 years.
   12. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: December 13, 2020 at 11:25 PM (#5993974)
Ok, so I've been living overseas for over 30 years and I need to ask..

The word or name Indian is considered offensive? I can see how Redskins or that chief Wahoo logo was offensive, but the generic term Indian is offensive? Do actual native Americans find it offensive? Has there been a push from that community to sort this out? I'm not trolling, I'm asking genuine questions here.
   13. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: December 13, 2020 at 11:25 PM (#5993975)
Looking at the names of defunct Cleveland franchises: I didn't realize their was a team called the Cleveland Infants. They existed for one year in the Player's League (which also only existed one year). Cleveland Blues would have a different connotation than it did back in the 1880's.
   14. Mayor Blomberg Posted: December 13, 2020 at 11:33 PM (#5993977)
Hugh -- Yes, there has been.
   15. SoSH U at work Posted: December 13, 2020 at 11:38 PM (#5993980)
Someone here suggested the Guardians, based on a famed bridge in the city. I like that.

The word or name Indian is considered offensive? I can see how Redskins or that chief Wahoo logo was offensive, but the generic term Indian is offensive? Do actual native Americans find it offensive? Has there been a push from that community to sort this out? I'm not trolling, I'm asking genuine questions here.


It's mixed. Some do. Some don't. Obviously Indians hasn't been as bad as Redskins, but most major college teams that had been named Indians (Stanford, Dartmouth, for instance) dropped Indian as a nickname nearly 50 years ago, and many tribal names have also disappeared (though not all).

The Chiefs, Braves and Blackhawks are probably all going to disappear at some point. I wouldn't count on the same for the Vikings or others.



   16. Howie Menckel Posted: December 13, 2020 at 11:48 PM (#5993981)
The Chiefs, Braves and Blackhawks

and Warriors?
   17. we all water; we all 57i66135 Posted: December 13, 2020 at 11:54 PM (#5993983)
The word or name Indian is considered offensive?

people from india are indians.


are native americans from india? the answer may surprise you.
   18. SoSH U at work Posted: December 14, 2020 at 12:00 AM (#5993985)
and Warriors?


I would assume. Are there any others in the pros?
   19. Mayor Blomberg Posted: December 14, 2020 at 12:24 AM (#5993986)
I wouldn't count on the same for the Vikings


I expect it began as targeted marketing to the Norwegian bachelor farmers.

and Warriors?


I've wondered how Trailblazers gets a pass.
   20. DFA Posted: December 14, 2020 at 12:39 AM (#5993988)
Chief Wahoo really seems like salt on a wound, and I am certainly supportive of this move. I'm reading the Hardy Boys series to my boy and it's pretty crazy the stereotypes are in that series. Slipped over my a kid, but now? Anyway, I would go for Spiders, with a portion of the rebranding proceeds supporting Native cause.
   21. BrianBrianson Posted: December 14, 2020 at 01:32 AM (#5993989)
Anyway, I would go for Spiders, with a portion of the rebranding proceeds supporting Native cause.


Like, rebranding is going to cost them money. Are you suggesting they try to make them pay for it?
   22. DFA Posted: December 14, 2020 at 02:06 AM (#5993990)
I meant that Cleveland will receive a lot of money from rebranding in terms of merchandise? I hope the Dolans/MLB donate a portion of the profits are donated.
   23. flournoy Posted: December 14, 2020 at 02:10 AM (#5993991)
I meant that Cleveland will receive a lot of money from rebranding in terms of merchandise?


Why would you think that? If that were true, teams would change names all the time.
   24. MuttsIdolCochrane Posted: December 14, 2020 at 04:58 AM (#5993994)
Why the fark does this anger Trump? He is one sick little man.
   25. Adam Starblind Posted: December 14, 2020 at 07:30 AM (#5993995)
The word or name Indian is considered offensive?


people from india are indians.


are native americans from india? the answer may surprise you.


Many Native Americans prefer to be called American Indian. I think the issue is more akin to naming a team the New York Jews. Jewish people just wouldn't like it.
   26. bfan Posted: December 14, 2020 at 07:54 AM (#5993996)
I assume no one is happy with what Washington did, with no alternative name this year, and that a part of Cleveland's process is having a new name and logo in place.
   27. Jose Has Absurd Goosebump Arms Posted: December 14, 2020 at 08:13 AM (#5993999)
Chief Wahoo really seems like salt on a wound, and I am certainly supportive of this move


I think this is the problem with "Indians" (and "Braves" as well). It's not the name so much as the iconography that surrounds it.
   28. Thok Posted: December 14, 2020 at 08:13 AM (#5994000)
I've wondered how Trailblazers gets a pass.


Warriors and Trailblazers have been genericized so that one can disassociate them from racial stereotypes, in a way that Cleveland Baseball Team's and Washington Football Team's nicknames would have had a hard time replicating. Plenty of people go fight in wars or develop trails through difficult terrain (with the latter possibly being metaphorical trails).

It's possible that the Atlanta Braves and the Kansas City Chiefs could possibly replicate that path, although it would require some amount of marketing (Kansas City would have a slightly easier time with it than Atlanta, since Chief does have a generic use as a noun while Brave only is used generically as a verb; a change to Atlanta Bravest or Bravery might work, but would also seem trite). The Chicago Blackhawks couldn't follow that path.
   29. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: December 14, 2020 at 08:18 AM (#5994001)
Are you kidding? Washington Football Team is awesome.
   30. BrianBrianson Posted: December 14, 2020 at 08:35 AM (#5994004)
I meant that Cleveland will receive a lot of money from rebranding in terms of merchandise? I hope the Dolans/MLB donate a portion of the profits are donated.


I knew you meant that, and I was calling attention to how it was a completely preposterous suggestion.
   31. TJ Posted: December 14, 2020 at 08:37 AM (#5994005)
If the city f Cleveland wanted a theme to their teams nicknames and they already have one team named after a famous owner (the Browns), perhaps they could petition the current owners to go with the Cleveland Veecks...
   32. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: December 14, 2020 at 09:14 AM (#5994011)
MLB merchandise revenue is split equally among all 30 teams (unless sold at a team store), so the Dolans aren't likely to see a significant bump from this.

Plus they'll probably trade the name in a few years for prospects.
   33. DL from MN Posted: December 14, 2020 at 09:21 AM (#5994014)
I think this is the problem with "Indians" (and "Braves" as well). It's not the name so much as the iconography that surrounds it.


The Braves could pretty easily keep that nickname and change the iconography around it. Bravery is not a bad thing. Also, see the Peoria Chiefs for how that name can be rebranded.
   34. BDC Posted: December 14, 2020 at 09:29 AM (#5994016)
The word or name Indian is considered offensive? I can see how Redskins or that chief Wahoo logo was offensive, but the generic term Indian is offensive? Do actual native Americans find it offensive? Has there been a push from that community to sort this out? I'm not trolling, I'm asking genuine questions here


"Indian" is not offensive and is still current in Native media; the most widely-read Native newspaper is Indian Country Today.

As a generic nickname for a sports club: I think a lot of it comes down to why you choose a nickname for a club. Most nicknames are fearsome, cute, or associated with the city/region. Indians are just people; they don't want to perform fearsome or cute for non-Indians. They are not particularly associated with Cleveland. So it seems gratuitous. I don't think there's been a huge groundswell against the team name (as opposed, as you say, to Wahoo etc.), but why be gratuitous when you could pick a new fearsome/cute/local nickname?
   35. Rally Posted: December 14, 2020 at 09:37 AM (#5994017)
Are you kidding? Washington Football Team is awesome.


They have a name. They are the Washington RedSquirrels. I have named them, and consider it official. If they don't like the name I have chosen for them, then they need to come up with one.
   36. Cooper Nielson Posted: December 14, 2020 at 09:39 AM (#5994019)
a change to Atlanta Bravest or Bravery might work

"The Atlanta Brave" also works (land of the free, home of the brave), but it sounds kinda WNBA/arena football.
   37. Nasty Nate Posted: December 14, 2020 at 09:39 AM (#5994020)
How did neither of these teams have a new name on deck and ready to go? They've had decades to work this out.
   38. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: December 14, 2020 at 09:43 AM (#5994022)
Why the fark does this anger Trump?
Staying on-brand.
   39. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: December 14, 2020 at 09:58 AM (#5994027)

The word or name Indian is considered offensive?


No, and frankly I don't think many have a problem with the name itself, it is the logo, and the fact that the name inspires white people to do this.
   40. Greg Pope Posted: December 14, 2020 at 10:07 AM (#5994029)
Most nicknames are fearsome, cute, or associated with the city/region. Indians are just people; they don't want to perform fearsome or cute for non-Indians.

I think this is probably the reason. Naming the team after a warrior class seems appropriate. The Braves are the soldiers* of the American Indians so it seems like that should be fine as a nickname. Like a generic Warriors or Vikings. But naming a team after an entire group of people can be an issue. Especially when you only use the fighting aspect of them. And the Washington nickname should have been retired long ago.

But this means that we're probably trending towards all animal or nature names for teams. Here are the latest expansion names for the big 4 sports:

MLB: Rockies, Marlins, Diamondbacks, Devil Rays
NBA: Heat, Hornets, Timberwolves, Magic, Grizzlies, Raptors, Pelicans
NFL: Panthers, Jaguars, Ravens, Texans
NHL: Sharks, Senators, Lightning, Mighty Ducks, Panthers, Predators, Thrashers, Blue Jackets, Wild, Golden Knights, Kraken**

The only people ones are Texans and Senators.

*I'm going by my general knowledge here. It's possible that "Braves" as American Indian fighters isn't historically accurate, I've never looked into it.

**Seriously, there's an expansion NHL team named the Kraken? Is that singular or plural?
   41. SoSH U at work Posted: December 14, 2020 at 10:16 AM (#5994033)
But this means that we're probably trending towards all animal or nature names for teams. Here are the latest expansion names for the big 4 sports:


I suppose for new names, but it's not like Texans or Senators are viewed as problematic, they're jobs or reflect the very people the team is representing. Both of those are OK.

Indians is problematic because a) it's a race of people, not just a subset of a race of people.
and b) they have no tie to Cleveland (other than the Louis Sockalexis justification), and c) they historically haven't been treated very well by the kind of folks doing the naming.

College sports started getting rid of Indian nicknames a half century ago, and pro teams are just now following suit. And in that time, there hasn't been a meaningful push to get rid of similar names of people (though, fortunately, the authorities at Pekin High School did mothball "Chinks" more than a quarter century ago).
   42. Nasty Nate Posted: December 14, 2020 at 10:17 AM (#5994034)
The only people ones are Texans and Senators.
and Golden Knights.
   43. Greg Pope Posted: December 14, 2020 at 10:33 AM (#5994036)
they're jobs or reflect the very people the team is representing. Both of those are OK.

I was trying to put this into words but couldn't come up with it. You're correct in that the Boilermakers and Hoosiers are probably OK.
   44. Random Transaction Generator Posted: December 14, 2020 at 10:37 AM (#5994037)
The only people ones are Texans and Senators.

and Golden Knights.


And Blue Jackets
   45. Adam Starblind Posted: December 14, 2020 at 11:30 AM (#5994044)
and Golden Knights.


Ok, but the British are one of the last few national/ethnic groups it's still ok to ridicule or demonize. The French, Germans, and Russians too. I think that's about it.
   46. Red Menace Posted: December 14, 2020 at 11:32 AM (#5994045)
For the record Blue Jackets refers to union soldiers, not the Shawnee Chief Blue Jacket.
   47. Howie Menckel Posted: December 14, 2020 at 11:47 AM (#5994048)
naming a team after an entire group of people can be an issue. Especially when you only use the fighting aspect of them.

the British are one of the last few national/ethnic groups it's still ok to ridicule or demonize. The French, Germans, and Russians too. I think that's about it.


think a little harder - the bread crumbs are there!
   48. Nasty Nate Posted: December 14, 2020 at 11:49 AM (#5994049)
'Golden Knights' is not referring to any British people
   49. Mayor Blomberg Posted: December 14, 2020 at 11:50 AM (#5994051)
I think Texans offensive, but maybe I'm overreacting to Dan Patrick and Ken Paxton.
   50. bunyon Posted: December 14, 2020 at 12:05 PM (#5994054)
The Braves could pretty easily keep that nickname and change the iconography around it. Bravery is not a bad thing. Also, see the Peoria Chiefs for how that name can be rebranded.

Yeah, the trouble is you can't just write off 100 years of history and 25 years of ignoring calls for change. If you started up a team today and called them Indians or Braves or Chiefs, especially if there were owners who had significant ties to Native heritage, you could do market it correctly. Today, if these teams tried to "change the iconography" it would be obvious it was bull$hit.
   51. reech Posted: December 14, 2020 at 01:01 PM (#5994064)
The Cleveland Midges
   52. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: December 14, 2020 at 01:02 PM (#5994065)
For the record Blue Jackets refers to union soldiers, not the Shawnee Chief Blue Jacket.


Wow. I always thought it was because their uniforms included blue jackets, sort of like how the Red Sox got their name.

But this means that we're probably trending towards all animal or nature names for teams. Here are the latest expansion names for the big 4 sports:
... Devil Rays ... Mighty Ducks


Kind of funny how some animal names got rebranded, too. And while the name is gone, you missed the Bobcats as well (I notice you did list the defunct Thrashers, so Bobcats should have made it).
   53. Brian C Posted: December 14, 2020 at 01:22 PM (#5994066)
Today, if these teams tried to "change the iconography" it would be obvious it was bull$hit.

Why would it be "bulls**t" to change the iconography when it's the iconography that's the issue in the first place?
The Chicago Blackhawks couldn't follow that path.

I dunno, the Blackhawks' mascot at the games is a bird, so I think there's a path there. On the other hand, the bird's name is the somewhat cringey-in-context "Tommy Hawk".
   54. . Posted: December 14, 2020 at 01:28 PM (#5994067)
The word or name Indian is considered offensive? I can see how Redskins or that chief Wahoo logo was offensive, but the generic term Indian is offensive? Do actual native Americans find it offensive? Has there been a push from that community to sort this out? I'm not trolling, I'm asking genuine questions here.


I'm pretty sure the name "Indians" isn't itself offensive, but that name will never actually exist in the real world without all the ancillary stuff that is offensive -- the logos, for one. And even worse, it corrupts the populace because white people will invariably rally around it and do stupid #### like mock Indian chants (and Tomahawk chants) to shove it in the face of anyone -- including Native Americans -- who expresses any kind of qualms about the whole thing. Those videoed examples of white bread Clevelanders doing that #### to protestors on opening day that year proves this perfectly.

So it's basically like a bunch of other stuff in our now hideously distended public life -- not necessarily bad in a vacuum, defensible in an antiseptic, debate-ish kind of way; bad in the real world of dumbass white lib owners and/or crackers.

And it won't really have much effect, if any, in the real tangible world. It's not going to reverse the history of what happened and the people who get wildly annoyed by the names and such, benefitted from the spoils of that history as much as the people who don't. It's not a Tarentino movie where history can be "changed" and it's not a history that's going to change because of some cheap and easy way-after-the-fact virtue signaling.

It would be nice if America finally stopped being so nostalgic and so obsessed about the past and the iconography of the past and started being futuristic again, like in the days of the Astrodome and the moon landings and wild optimism. I'm really done with retro stadiums and throwback jerseys. That's the stuff of stasis.
   55. . Posted: December 14, 2020 at 01:47 PM (#5994073)
Nor am I convinced that there's anything untoward about what is at least argued as the initial idea behind these names -- as essentially honorifics for bravery and honor in the inevitable battles that happened way back when, even in inevitable defeat. (*) It's certainly far better than conceiving Native Americans as pathetic and in constant need of leftist white psychic protectionism. I've never quite understood why so many white leftists conceive of black people and Native American people and Hispanic people and all the rest as needing them so much.

(*) I'm merely stating the principle here; if empirical historical reality proves not to back this initial idea, so be it. I doubt that's true, but it could be and I haven't looked into it quite enough. It's clearly the animating principle behind all the other things -- rivers, cities, towns, etc. -- that have names with Native origins. I live in "Manhattan" -- that's an Native American-based name. What's the real difference, if any, between that and "Cleveland Indians"? If anything it would seem worse to name actual "stolen" (**) land after the culture from which it was "stolen."

(**) It of course wasn't "stolen," but instead purchased. Point unchanged.
   56. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: December 14, 2020 at 01:49 PM (#5994074)
Everyone's overlooking the obvious choice -- go back to the Cleveland Naps!
   57. . Posted: December 14, 2020 at 01:59 PM (#5994078)
Indians is problematic because a) it's a race of people, not just a subset of a race of people.
and b) they have no tie to Cleveland (other than the Louis Sockalexis justification), and c) they historically haven't been treated very well by the kind of folks doing the naming.


Do Native Americans ever name their sports teams, or anything else, after white people? Have they ever named anything after, for example, Custer?
   58. John DiFool2 Posted: December 14, 2020 at 02:00 PM (#5994079)
The Cleveland Midges


Cleveland Ure's.
   59. SoSH U at work Posted: December 14, 2020 at 02:20 PM (#5994088)
Do Native Americans ever name their sports teams, or anything else, after white people? Have they ever named anything after, for example, Custer?


Probably as many Native teams are named after Custer as U.S. teams are named after the Redcoats.

   60. Posada Posse Posted: December 14, 2020 at 02:20 PM (#5994089)
In following the tradition of the Cleveland Naps, maybe the team can entice their free agent to be superstar by naming the team the “Cleveland Lindors”?!?! If not, the “Cleveland Biebers” might do......
   61. Hysterical & Useless Posted: December 14, 2020 at 02:41 PM (#5994097)
the Kraken? Is that singular or plural?


It's both, isn't it?
   62. . Posted: December 14, 2020 at 02:44 PM (#5994099)
Probably as many Native teams are named after Custer as U.S. teams are named after the Redcoats.


Sports teams aren't remotely the only "named" things. The names that have Native derivation aren't really in any sense triumphalist, anymore than the things in the North named after Confederate luminaries and things. There's really no sense that the names are there to either mark or denote or endorse or ratify whatever cultural vanquishing might be said to exist. It's basically just a faddish, "You white people can't talk this way" kind of thing, designed and promoted almost entirely by white people. Just not going to put a lot of stock in it, beyond what I wrote in 54. Intra-white battles with non-whites caught in the middle have become excruciatingly boring, and frankly rather scream, "White Supremacy." Get over yourselves, white people.
   63. Adam Starblind Posted: December 14, 2020 at 02:44 PM (#5994101)
'Golden Knights' is not referring to any British people


Southron Westerosi then?
   64. winnipegwhip Posted: December 14, 2020 at 03:00 PM (#5994109)
The Cleveland Midges


Cleveland Ure's.


Cleveland Pere Ubu's

Or as a Eric Carmen fan I wouldn't mind Cleveland Raspberries.
   65. SoSH U at work Posted: December 14, 2020 at 03:03 PM (#5994110)
Sports teams aren't remotely the only "named" things.


You singled out sports teams, so I answered about sports teams, you ass. But I doubt there are many things named after Custer on reservations.

the things in the North named after Confederate luminaries and things.


How many things in the North are named after Confederate luminaries and things?

I think there might be a few in WVa., though that's kind of tricky since many towns within W.Va., though not the state itself, existed as part of the Confederacy.

It's just not common to name things, in any way, after the people who fought against you*. Asking if Native Americans have named anything after more benign white figures is a legit question, and I have no idea the answer.

*The U.S. military bases named after Confederate generals are all in the south, so it's a case of both us and them.

   66. Nasty Nate Posted: December 14, 2020 at 03:07 PM (#5994112)
'Golden Knights' is not referring to any British people

Southron Westerosi then?
US military of all things, actually.

Thankfully they didn't name themselves the "Sand Snakes." Although, "Sticks of the Morning" would have been an interesting choice.
   67. Howie Menckel Posted: December 14, 2020 at 03:10 PM (#5994113)
Eric Fisher
@EricFisherSBG

No plan by the club to use an sort of Cleveland Baseball Team/interim type of identity. Indians remains in use for at least for 2021 and will stay until new name in place.
2:49 PM · Dec 14, 2020
   68. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: December 14, 2020 at 03:21 PM (#5994117)
How many things in the North are named after Confederate luminaries and things?


There was a Lake Calhoun here in MN, but it was renamed recently. Because, ugh, no.
   69. Swoboda is freedom Posted: December 14, 2020 at 03:28 PM (#5994122)
Cuyahoga Indians? Would that be better?
   70. SoSH U at work Posted: December 14, 2020 at 03:28 PM (#5994123)

There was a Lake Calhoun here in MN, but it was renamed recently.


That's not really the same thing. The lake wasn't named after him because of his importance to the Confederacy, but his significance to the area in his role as a U.S. official.
   71. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: December 14, 2020 at 03:36 PM (#5994125)

There was a Lake Calhoun here in MN, but it was renamed recently.


Calhoun was a bastard, but not a Confederate. He died in 1850. Not that I don't approve of the decision.
   72. . Posted: December 14, 2020 at 03:48 PM (#5994127)
There are streets named after Lee and Stonewall Jackson in Brooklyn.
   73. Lassus Posted: December 14, 2020 at 03:49 PM (#5994128)
Do Native Americans ever name their sports teams, or anything else, after white people? Have they ever named anything after, for example, Custer?
Multiple beef cattle, one would hope.
   74. winnipegwhip Posted: December 14, 2020 at 03:52 PM (#5994129)
They named a lake in Manitoba after Justin Toews after he won a Stanley Cup in 2010 as a Black Hawk. Is that appropriate?

   75. reech Posted: December 14, 2020 at 03:56 PM (#5994130)
The Cleveland Midges


Cleveland Ure's.


Cleveland Pere Ubu's

Or as a Eric Carmen fan I wouldn't mind Cleveland Raspberries.


In that case, The Cleveland Dead Boys
   76. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: December 14, 2020 at 03:56 PM (#5994131)
I was poking around Wiki, looking for things named after Confederates in the north. Haven't found any yet, but I did discover that until the George Floyd protests, Duval County FL (Jacksonville) had High Schools named after Jefferson Davis, Robert E Lee, J.E.B. Stuart, Stonewall Jackson, Edmund Kirby Smith, and Joseph Finnegan. They had a Nathan Bedford Forrest HS until 2014. Jesus. Jacksonville is 31% AA.
   77. Lassus Posted: December 14, 2020 at 04:07 PM (#5994136)
Various dumbfucks have flown the Stars and Farts up in northern NY for a long time, for some unknown reason. It has thinned out, including the massive ceiling one in a bar grill right down the road. But that was 7 or so years ago it came down. Unsure of the exact date or reason.
   78. . Posted: December 14, 2020 at 04:19 PM (#5994141)
Various dumbfucks have flown the Stars and Farts up in northern NY for a long time, for some unknown reason.


The reason is simple: they have more affinity for Confederate culture than Union, northern culture. That can, and often does, not have a thing to do with slavery or even race. Certainly it can have something to do with that.

The two cultures -- Stars and Bars and Northern Union -- are actually more divided and distinct today than they were at the time of the Civil War. They're all but incompatible today. The cultural homogeneity back then was the reason the war could end and they could just lay down arms, go home, and carry on. Nothing of the sort would be possible today.
   79. Starring Bradley Scotchman as RMc Posted: December 14, 2020 at 04:23 PM (#5994142)
WHY EVERY MLB NAME IS OFFENSIVE

Arizona Diamondbacks - Offensive to Snake-Americans.
Atlanta Braves - Guys, really?
Baltimore Orioles - Offensive to Bird-Americans
Boston Red Sox - Schilling had a bloody red sock, and he's a racist.
Chicago White Sox - White?!
Chicago Cubs - Offensive to hibernating Americans.
Cincinnati Reds - Actually, might be OK with the new regime (especially after Harris takes over).
Cleveland [REDACTED]
Colorado Rockies - Offensive to Flat Earthers.
Detroit Tigers - Nothing wrong with the name, they just suck.
Houston Astros - Cheaters!
Kansas City Royals - Offensive to kings and queens (also to jacks, aces and the 10 of diamonds).
Los Angeles Angels - Alludes to G-d.
Los Angeles Dodgers - Offensive to unacrobatic Americans.
Miami Marlins - Offensive to fish-Americans.
Milwaukee Brewers - Offensive to sober Americans.
Minnesota Twins - Offensive to single-birth Americans (also triplets, quads, etc.).
New York Yankees - Offensive to those who hate Americans.
New York Mets - Geez...do we really need a reason...?!
Oakland A's - Offensive to the other 25 letters.
Philadelphia Phillies - Offensive to female horse-Americans.
Pittsburgh Pirates - Offensive to Johnny Depp. Johnny Depp is cool, yo.
San Diego Padres - Mentions G-d (en espanol).
San Francisco Giants - Offensive to short Americans.
Seattle Mariners - Offensive to dry-land Americans.
St. Louis Cardinals - Also mentions G-d. (What are we, a theocracy?)
Tampa Bay Rays - Not offensive, really, but it's embarrassing when 90% of the crowd is rooting for the other team.
Texas Rangers - Offensive to hockey-playing Americans.
Toronto Blue Jays - Offensive to depressed Americans (and Canadians, eh?).
Washington Nationals - Nationalism is bad, bruh.

Actually, the team names are a moot point, as all sporting events have been cancelled due to COVID-19. Obey. Yes, we have a vaccine now; don't care. Obey. This is a recording. Obey. Klaatu barada nikto.
   80. TJ Posted: December 14, 2020 at 04:37 PM (#5994147)

There was a Lake Calhoun here in MN, but it was renamed recently.


Calhoun was a bastard, but not a Confederate. He died in 1850. Not that I don't approve of the decision.


Approve of the name change decision or the dying decision?


I suppose for new names, but it's not like Texans or Senators are viewed as problematic, they're jobs or reflect the very people the team is representing. Both of those are OK.


OK if you're Canadian. American senators are held in much greater disrepute.


   81. . Posted: December 14, 2020 at 04:40 PM (#5994149)
I suppose for new names, but it's not like Texans or Senators are viewed as problematic, they're jobs or reflect the very people the team is representing.


Plus there's no reason to believe that it's true that the "Cleveland Indians" represent no native fans. One would hope the suggestion wouldn't be that at the time of the naming, the Cleveland club was affirmatively eschewing any loyalty Natives in the area or otherwise might have for it.

It's unbecoming of the white people who are doing all these things to then try to rationalize what they're doing by then pointing to distinctions without differences. The reasons these names are disappearing is that dispositive and inevitably faddish white opinion now holds that the "vanquishing" culture should not use the iconography and associative words of the "vanquished" culture in this way. It's more "what are the proper manners of 'punching down'?" than it is anything else. There's nothing more to it than that and it should simply just be owned on whatever merits the idea possesses.
   82. DL from MN Posted: December 14, 2020 at 04:42 PM (#5994150)
things named after Confederates in the north


Albert Lea, MN. He surveyed the area before the war and chose the South during the war.
   83. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: December 14, 2020 at 04:42 PM (#5994151)
Calhoun was a bastard, but not a Confederate. He died in 1850. Not that I don't approve of the decision.


Calhoun was awful. Nothing (public, private business I don't care, go for it) should be named after him. He is the John the Baptist of the Confederacy. Among other things.
   84. Powderhorn™, moonstruck rascal Posted: December 14, 2020 at 04:43 PM (#5994152)
The lake wasn't named after him because of his importance to the Confederacy, but his significance to the area in his role as a U.S. official.
Calhoun sent out the surveying party to, well, survey the area, and they decided to name the lake after him. Which sounds to me like the lake was given its name as a way to kiss the boss's ass. That alone would be reason enough to change it.

There are of course many, many businesses in the neighborhood still named after him. I don't have a problem with that. Renaming a public lake in a public park was a good idea. (You will be shocked to learn that not everyone supported that.) And letting private businesses make up their own minds was also a good idea.
   85. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: December 14, 2020 at 04:46 PM (#5994154)
Yeah, agree with Powderhorn, Calhoun had near zero significance to the "area".
   86. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: December 14, 2020 at 04:57 PM (#5994155)
the Kraken? Is that singular or plural?
Does it really matter? Seems like one kraken is all anyone would ever really need to get the job done.
   87. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: December 14, 2020 at 05:15 PM (#5994163)
For the record, I love the name Kraken. It is fun, and sportsball teams should have fun names.
   88. SoSH U at work Posted: December 14, 2020 at 05:26 PM (#5994168)
Calhoun sent out the surveying party to, well, survey the area, and they decided to name the lake after him. Which sounds to me like the lake was given its name as a way to kiss the boss's ass. That alone would be reason enough to change it.

There are of course many, many businesses in the neighborhood still named after him. I don't have a problem with that. Renaming a public lake in a public park was a good idea. (You will be shocked to learn that not everyone supported that.) And letting private businesses make up their own minds was also a good idea.


I wasn't defending the naming of him, nor contesting the idea it should be replaced. Merely pointing out that naming the lake (or other places) after Calhoun was not the same as naming something after someone who was a part of the Confederacy.
   89. Astroenteritis Posted: December 14, 2020 at 05:38 PM (#5994170)
I think Texans offensive, but maybe I'm overreacting to Dan Patrick and Ken Paxton.


Hell Mayor, I'm a native Texan and I find Dan Patrick and Ken Paxton to be quite offensive. The stink of our pathetic politicians taints us all.

And, go Spiders!
   90. Powderhorn™, moonstruck rascal Posted: December 14, 2020 at 05:44 PM (#5994171)
I wasn't defending the naming of him, nor contesting the idea it should be replaced. Merely pointing out that naming the lake (or other places) after Calhoun was not the same as naming something after someone who was a part of the Confederacy.
Yeah, just to be clear, I wasn't disagreeing. I mostly found it funny that when the renaming controversy was going on, neither side pointed out that it probably never should have been named after him to begin with.

And yes, I agree with #89. Spiders. It must be Spiders. I'll call them that regardless of what the team chooses.
   91. Ron J Posted: December 14, 2020 at 05:55 PM (#5994172)
Too much to hope for but I want "Naps"

Just think of the awesome branding potention. The glorious iconography.
   92. . Posted: December 14, 2020 at 06:39 PM (#5994178)
Spiders is the choice, but they're going to overthink it and go a different direction. It actually wouldn't surprise me if they tried to do some sort of thing where there's some kind of Native reference or allusion, so as to maintain the "heritage" of their nickname. I'd bet decent money they have branding brains a-cracking on the idea. Not sure that needle can be threaded.
   93. The Duke Posted: December 14, 2020 at 07:14 PM (#5994183)
91. If Julia Louis-Dreyfus was in the ownership group you could name them the Nips. I steal your comments:

Just think of the awesome branding potential. The glorious iconography.

Their slogan could be “We’re real and we’re spectacular”
   94. Mike A Posted: December 14, 2020 at 08:34 PM (#5994195)
I love the name Kraken. It is fun, and sportsball teams should have fun names.
I couldn't tell you what icing is yet I'm wearing a Kraken shirt right now.

The nickname must be pretty popular because it took like a month for it to get shipped from the NHL store.
   95. Dr. Chaleeko Posted: December 14, 2020 at 09:02 PM (#5994198)
Still hoping for Buckeyes in recognition if the Negro League champs if the mid1940s. But very much doubting that MLB feels like having a fight with OSU.

Also not so sure Cleveland should choose a name celebrating the R&R HOF. I mean, they let Heart, Abba, and Bon Jovi in there meanwhile Pavement and Guided by Voices are on the outside looking in and probably always will be.
   96. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: December 14, 2020 at 09:11 PM (#5994199)
Spiders is the choice,

The Indians history is bad enough without naming them after the team that intentionally tried to lose every game.
   97. SoSH U at work Posted: December 14, 2020 at 09:21 PM (#5994201)
95. If anything is grounds for expulsion from the Hall of Fame, JBJ’s cover of Fairytale could be it.
   98. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: December 14, 2020 at 09:36 PM (#5994204)
Too much to hope for but I want "Naps"

Just think of the awesome branding potention. The glorious iconography.


Will their logo be a guy's head lying on a pillow?
   99. Mayor Blomberg Posted: December 14, 2020 at 09:41 PM (#5994207)
The nickname must be pretty popular because it took like a month for it to get shipped from the NHL store.

Has the shirt been making appearances at "Stop the Steal" rallies?
   100. flournoy Posted: December 14, 2020 at 09:44 PM (#5994209)
Still hoping for Buckeyes in recognition if the Negro League champs if the mid1940s. But very much doubting that MLB feels like having a fight with OSU.


It's hard to imagine many worse choices than a name that 100% of your fan base associates and will continue to associate with another team in your state. Talk about kneecapping yourself with regard to team and brand identity right from the start.
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