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Tuesday, November 06, 2007

Comedian Dennis Miller returns to sports TV with talk show on Versus

Now, I don’t want to get off on a rant here, but The David Brock2 System is really screwed up…babe.

The comedian is venturing back into sports television, a pairing that evokes memories of his much-talked-about two-year run in the football broadcast booth. “Sports Unfiltered with Dennis Miller,” a talk show on the U.S. cable channel Versus, debuts Tuesday night.

“Some people want Jim Rome,” he said of the combative sports talk show host. “Some people want me.”

In 2000, ABC hired Miller in hopes that his trademark obscure pop culture references would boost ratings. The experience didn’t dampen his passion for sports - he figures he’s one of the few people who have read every edition of Bill James’ “Baseball Abstract” statistical analysis books. Nor did it dull his interest in working in sports television.

Repoz Posted: November 06, 2007 at 12:34 AM | 519 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: media, sabermetrics

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   1. AndrewJ Posted: November 06, 2007 at 12:54 AM (#2606013)
he figures he’s one of the few people who have read every edition of Bill James’ “Baseball Abstract” statistical analysis books

Actually, thousands more people have read every edition of Bill James’ “Baseball Abstracts” than ever saw Miller's CNBC talk show a few years back...
   2. Guapo Posted: November 06, 2007 at 01:03 AM (#2606017)
Miller has to be approaching the record for "Most-Channels-Cancelled-By"
   3. Infinite Yost (Voxter) Posted: November 06, 2007 at 01:08 AM (#2606020)
“Some people want Jim Rome,” he said of the combative sports talk show host. “Some people want me.”

And some of us want them both to shut the #### up.
   4. Dan Szymborski Posted: November 06, 2007 at 01:10 AM (#2606022)
Am I the only one who enjoyed Miller on Monday Night Football?
   5. jayjay Posted: November 06, 2007 at 01:13 AM (#2606023)
I liked him on MNF, too. It helped that they didn't have the likes of Christian Slater or Vince Vaughn stopping by the booth.
   6. Hang down your head, Tom Foley Posted: November 06, 2007 at 01:13 AM (#2606024)
Am I the only one who enjoyed Miller on Monday Night Football?


No, Miller seemed to enjoy it.
   7. JC in DC Posted: November 06, 2007 at 01:15 AM (#2606025)
I liked Miller, too. He was much better than Kornheiser.
   8. Robert in Manhattan Beach Posted: November 06, 2007 at 01:17 AM (#2606028)
Am I the only one who enjoyed Miller on Monday Night Football?

I enjoyed him as well. I've always liked Miller, especially his HBO show. His turn to the political dark side is, of course, troubling. I doubt I'll try to figure out which channel Versus is to watch this.
   9. Infinite Yost (Voxter) Posted: November 06, 2007 at 01:19 AM (#2606029)
Am I the only one who enjoyed Miller on Monday Night Football?

I might have, but as it involved professional football, it just wasn't meant to be.
   10. 185/456(GGC) Posted: November 06, 2007 at 01:21 AM (#2606030)
Am I the only one who enjoyed Miller on Monday Night Football?


I liked him. I don't think that I've watched MNF this year other than when the Jints were on it, but I've become disenchanted with football anyways.
   11. Boots Day Posted: November 06, 2007 at 01:22 AM (#2606032)
I thought Dennis Miller was hilarious on Monday Night Football. I'll never forget his comparison of a punt returner calling for a fair catch to Miss America waving from the back of a Camaro.

He didn't contribute much in the way of insight, but neither do most broadcasters, so they may as well be funny.
   12. JThompson Posted: November 06, 2007 at 01:38 AM (#2606041)
Don't they mean ex-comedian Dennis Miller?
   13. Repoz Posted: November 06, 2007 at 01:40 AM (#2606043)
Which end of the defensive radio spectrum does Miller get moved to...left or right?
   14. Phil Coorey. Posted: November 06, 2007 at 01:44 AM (#2606047)
Is Jints? The Giants?
   15. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: November 06, 2007 at 02:25 AM (#2606082)
Is Jints? The Giants?


Yes, that's a backpage of the NY tabloids favorite.
   16. Dan Szymborski Posted: November 06, 2007 at 02:28 AM (#2606089)
Glad to see I'm not the only one who enjoyed him on MNF.

My favorite quip was during a Ravens game when Tony Siragusa and Sam Adams were out there and Miller said it was the first time Siragusa ever stood next to a Sam Adams without drinking it.
   17. Darren Posted: November 06, 2007 at 02:31 AM (#2606092)
Miller is like Repoz without the depth of knowledge.
   18. Foster Posted: November 06, 2007 at 03:08 AM (#2606118)
What's versus? Is that the gay one?
   19. Benny Distefano's Mitt Posted: November 06, 2007 at 03:14 AM (#2606122)
Wait. Comedian?
   20. tfbg9 Posted: November 06, 2007 at 03:14 AM (#2606123)
I'm a big Dennis Miller Fan. He played the infamous Earl Weaver X-rated interview bit the other day--DM and his sidekick Sal were gasping for breath they were laughing so hard.

Oh, BTW, he has a nationally sydicated radio show on Westwood One. It's great, IMHO.
   21. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: November 06, 2007 at 03:30 AM (#2606134)
Am I the only one who enjoyed Miller on Monday Night Football?

You're as alone as Chauncey Gardner waiting for his eggs over easy, Sparky. Dennis Miller begets a level of irritation bigger than Harry K. Thaw's, the day Thawsie got the news that Stanford White had placed a "rush" order for playground equipment.
   22. Esoteric Posted: November 06, 2007 at 03:34 AM (#2606136)
Miller is great. Hilarious and easily one of the most cerebral comedians working over the past few decades. Even if you have a problem with his politics (lord knows I don't), that doesn't change the fact that the guy has more intelligent fun with language and cultural trivia than anyone since George Carlin. And yet in a way that's quite different from Carlin's style.

Also, nobody else did Weekend Update better, either. Ever. (Ackroyd and MacDonald did the spot proud, though...most of the others were godawful.)

I know I don't get this "Versus" channel, but I'd try to catch this show if I did, and I hope to check out clips on YouTube or something.
   23. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: November 06, 2007 at 03:38 AM (#2606143)
Miller is great. Hilarious and easily one of the most cerebral comedians working over the past few decades. Even if you have a problem with his politics (lord knows I don't), that doesn't change the fact that the guy has more intelligent fun with language itself than anyone since George Carlin. And yet in a way that's quite different from Carlin's style.

Which Miller are you talking about? He was funny 20 years ago. Today, not so much. I tried to like him on MNF, I really did. I thought hiring him was a clever and bold move, and I really hoped it would work. It didn't. He stunk.
   24. tfbg9 Posted: November 06, 2007 at 03:39 AM (#2606145)
McDonald is now gonna do a weekly guest spot on DM's radio show. Guys kills me.
   25. Esoteric Posted: November 06, 2007 at 03:53 AM (#2606155)
23 - Yeaarrgghhhh:

What can I say? I like his style, phrasing, delivery, and penchant for hilarious esoteric (see: my name) cultural analogies. If it doesn't work for you anymore, then hey: no problem. I can understand that.
   26. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: November 06, 2007 at 03:54 AM (#2606156)
He seems to be challenging Ellen for nine lives on television.

I do like his radio show, he has a p.o.v. no doubt that make some cringe, but there's no shouting and no marching orders given. His interviews are top notch.
   27. Foster Posted: November 06, 2007 at 04:00 AM (#2606161)
Weekend update power rankings:

1 Miller
2 Norm
3 Tina and Amy
4 Seth and Amy
5 Tina and Jimmy
6 Chevy
7 Jane and Dan
8 Jane and Bill
9 Colin Quinn
10 Brad Hall
11 Charles Rocket
12 Kevin Nealon

Christopher Guest was in there somewhere, but I don't remember ever seeing it.
   28. Alex meets the threshold for granular review Posted: November 06, 2007 at 04:04 AM (#2606166)
I might be tempted to put Norm above Miller.
   29. Hombre Brotani Posted: November 06, 2007 at 04:05 AM (#2606167)
Oh, BTW, he has a nationally sydicated radio show on Westwood One. It's great, IMHO.
He's on 870 AM in Los Angeles. I'll catch his show sometimes when I'm in the car, but it bums me out. Instead of getting Dennis Miller, I feel like I'm listening to some guy doing his Dennis Miller schtick. I liked him enough in my youth to check in every few weeks, but the payoff's just not there anymore.
   30. Esoteric Posted: November 06, 2007 at 04:07 AM (#2606168)
28 - Le Samourai:

I wouldn't necessarily agree, and yet I understand where you're coming from. What's so funny is that I have the distinct memory of MacDonald being widely reviled as anchor at the time. Me, I thought he was pretty much the only ####### thing worth watching on the show during that era. I see some of his Weekend Update work these days and it works just as well for me now as it did then...still can't understand why he was so unpopular.
   31. Boots Day Posted: November 06, 2007 at 04:07 AM (#2606170)
You forgot Robin Duke and Brian Doyle-Murray, although I guess they were calling it SNL Newsbreak back then.
   32. Foster Posted: November 06, 2007 at 04:09 AM (#2606172)
By his own admission, Miller's sensibilty and comedy changed after 9/11. He was my favorite comedian for a long time; now I find his stand-up pretty reactionary and dick-wavy and obvious, except for the wordplay. He's become a more interesting broadcaster than a comic.
   33. Repoz Posted: November 06, 2007 at 04:43 AM (#2606200)
I might be tempted to put Norm above Miller.

yes!
   34. McCoy Posted: November 06, 2007 at 04:43 AM (#2606201)
that doesn't change the fact that the guy has more intelligent fun with language itself than anyone since George Carlin. And yet in a way that's quite different from Carlin's style.

By his own admission, Miller's sensibilty and comedy changed after 9/11.

Interestingly enough for me at least is that Carlin didn't seem to change his style or outlook after 9/11 and it didn't really seem to fly at the time. Don't know about nowthough.
   35. McCoy Posted: November 06, 2007 at 04:52 AM (#2606208)
1 Miller
2 Norm
3 Tina and Amy
4 Seth and Amy
5 Tina and Jimmy
6 Chevy
7 Jane and Dan
8 Jane and Bill
9 Colin Quinn
10 Brad Hall
11 Charles Rocket
12 Kevin Nealon


I always liked Kevin Nealon. I think if he had a fault it was that he used the Weekend Update as more of a vehicle for his comedic stylings then as some sort of comedic political/societal satire that Dennis made so popular while he was there. Kevin had to follow Dennis Miller who really shaped Weekend Update into his own personal thing. So somebody had to bite the bullet for the rest of them. Since Miller I would say Weekend Update has reverted back to its normal goofy making fun of celebrities and a vehicle for outrageous character bits.

I would put Colin Quinn at the bottom and I wouldn't rank Norm all that high. more middle of the pack. I thought his delivery could be sloppy at times and his style of comedy not very conducive to the style of the bit. Norm was more of conversationalist comedian and most of his humor was created when he would go off on a tangent about something. Old lady dies in a tub, why that reminds me of the time my grandmother used to . . . .. That was his style and I don't really think that fit the format.
   36. Jay Z Posted: November 06, 2007 at 05:00 AM (#2606216)
I think Brad Hall was teamed with Mary Gross for a while, and Jane Curtin did some solo. There also was a period before Christopher Guest where the guest host would read the news.

I'm sure McDonald would grate if you didn't care for his recurring jokes (Hasselhoff et al) which were a major part of his gig there.

Also, from what I've seen Ackroyd sucked on Update. Not the "Jane you ignorant slut" part, but just the newsreading.
   37. Mark Edward Posted: November 06, 2007 at 05:56 AM (#2606269)
Colin Quinn gave me nightmares... then, for whatever reason, Comedy Central gave him his own show for a while.

I always thought Chris Parnell would've made a good anchor, though I don't think he was ever given the chance on WU (I stopped watching SNL while he was still on the show).

I'd even say Parnell was the most mis-used and under-utilized talent on SNL in the past 10 years.
   38. SouthSideRyan Posted: November 06, 2007 at 06:53 AM (#2606289)
Chris Parnell annoyed the piss out of me. Every character he played was the same exact thing in that jackass tone of voice of his.

I'm another vote for Quinn's Weekend Update being brutal. His show on Comedy Central wasn't awful if you ignored the 4 hack comedians he'd have on as guests. When Quinn talked it actually wasn't bad. I think he had a show on NBC for about 3 episodes that I didn't hate.

I'm a bit too young to have appreciated Miller's WE, but have liked pretty much everything he's done, even his show on CNBC and MNF.

If anyone's wondering Versus is the old OLN(Outdoor Life Network). It shows regular season hockey, and is at least on Comcast basic cable package because they own it.
   39. DCW3 Posted: November 06, 2007 at 07:17 AM (#2606295)
"Isn't that the voice that caused all those suicides?"

"Murder-suicides!"
   40. DCW3 Posted: November 06, 2007 at 07:19 AM (#2606296)
I always liked Kevin Nealon.

Nealon is absolutely fantastic on Weeds. It's kind of funny that he always seemed to be overshadowed by his contemporaries during his time on SNL, but now he's doing better work than just about any of them.
   41. danup Posted: November 06, 2007 at 07:26 AM (#2606299)
1. Norm
2. Miller
3. Nealon

everybody else

Tina Fey was good with Jimmy Fallon but the Fey/Poehler team was insufferable. That might have to do with the declining material, but it just didn't work for me at all.
   42. Corey Hart Posted: November 06, 2007 at 10:08 AM (#2606313)
1. Norm
2. Nealon
3. Miller

4. Everyone else (except Colin Quinn)

30. Colin Quinn

NBC fired Norm, then had Quinn take his place. That is the equivalent to Tony Dungy cutting Peyton Manning to allow Jim Sorgi to take his place. The Weekend Update used to be the one consistent segment in an otherwise hit or miss show until Norm was fired. Now it's unwatchable.
   43. BeanoCook Posted: November 06, 2007 at 10:12 AM (#2606314)
I enjoyed him as well. I've always liked Miller, especially his HBO show. His turn to the political dark side is, of course, troubling. I doubt I'll try to figure out which channel Versus is to watch this.


About the only political change Miller made was to oppose the left's reaction (coddling of) to islamic terror. Hardly a shift to the "dark side". You'd have to be a fool to not want to obliterate islamic terror when possible.
   44. Darren Posted: November 06, 2007 at 11:38 AM (#2606316)
About the only political change Miller made was to oppose the left's reaction (coddling of) to islamic terror. Hardly a shift to the "dark side". You'd have to be a fool to not want to obliterate islamic terror when possible.


When you put it that way, it all becomes so clear. For all this time, I've be in favor of coddling Islamic terror. Now I see that us lefties had it all wrong. Thank you.
   45. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: November 06, 2007 at 01:02 PM (#2606322)
I wanted to like Miller on MNF, because he was a local guy, but he was just terrible. His references weren't ever fresh or surprising, and he was always killing the momentum of the other guys in the booth, who were actually trying to talk about football.

I hadn't really taken note of his political shift, but he seems like pretty much of a bonehead now, which is too bad.
   46. Slinger Francisco Barrios (Dr. Memory) Posted: November 06, 2007 at 01:10 PM (#2606325)
Who wants Jim Rome? I even think I heard Jim Rome's mom say she wishes he'd call a bit less often.
   47. 185/456(GGC) Posted: November 06, 2007 at 01:29 PM (#2606330)
This page was the inspiration for my occasional "The Annotated Repoz" posts.

Never knew Miller was a Bill James freak. I'd insert an Admiral Chris Stockdial joke here, but I can't think of one.
   48. Zonk demands an audit of your post Posted: November 06, 2007 at 01:41 PM (#2606333)
About the only political change Miller made was to oppose the left's reaction (coddling of) to islamic terror. Hardly a shift to the "dark side". You'd have to be a fool to not want to obliterate islamic terror when possible.


If this isn't the dumbest statement I've read in 5 years of BTF, it's certainly in the team photo. I mean, fer chrissakes, that's just a really dumb statement.
   49. villageidiom Posted: November 06, 2007 at 01:43 PM (#2606334)
What's so funny is that I have the distinct memory of MacDonald being widely reviled as anchor at the time. Me, I thought he was pretty much the only ####### thing worth watching on the show during that era.

Norm's performance was like replacement level during WWII. On the absolute he was bad, but he was the best person for the job at the time. At least Norm gave us Bob Dole on The Real World, and Burt Reynolds on Jeopardy.

Like many others, I'd move Nealon up the list, and Quinn down - to another list, if that's possible. Also, Tina/Jimmy has to move down, if only because Fallon couldn't deliver a line to save his life. And Chevy should move up, if we're talking about peak performance.

Miller on MNF wasn't good at ad-libbing. He'd have a few one-liners here and there, but it was kinda obvious he had been working on them all week and damnit he was going to find a way to work them in somehow. I think Kimmel would've worked great there, but what do I know?
   50. Dan Szymborski Posted: November 06, 2007 at 01:58 PM (#2606340)
Honestly, I think part of the decline of Weekend Update is simply due to the competition that resonates more with Gen-Xers - to me, Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert are both far, far funnier in the fake news genre than Weeekend Update is or ever was.
   51. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: November 06, 2007 at 02:04 PM (#2606341)
Like many others, I'd move Nealon up the list, and Quinn down - to another list, if that's possible. Also, Tina/Jimmy has to move down, if only because Fallon couldn't deliver a line to save his life. And Chevy should move up, if we're talking about peak performance.

Agree on all accounts. Norm was ok, but I wouldn't put him near the top. I liked Nealon.

Miller on MNF wasn't good at ad-libbing. He'd have a few one-liners here and there, but it was kinda obvious he had been working on them all week and damnit he was going to find a way to work them in somehow. I think Kimmel would've worked great there, but what do I know?

I think this good analysis of Miller. As noted, I thought Miller stunk on MNF, but to be fair, it seemed obvious that Michaels couldn't stand having him there, and never really gave him a chance. Miller might have worked with a different announcer (Jon Miller?).

If this isn't the dumbest statement I've read in 5 years of BTF, it's certainly in the team photo. I mean, fer chrissakes, that's just a really dumb statement.

You should check out Kevin Drum's golden wingnut awards at http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/. He just announced the winners. Beano's comment probably deserves an honorable mention.
   52. 185/456(GGC) Posted: November 06, 2007 at 02:27 PM (#2606351)
It's been years since I watched SNL. I watched it alot in high school (1982-1986) which was around when Miller was the Weekend Update guy. But during the typical college age years (18 or so to @ 23), I was in the Army and didn't have a TV. So I never really got back into the habit of watching it. During my twenties, I was usually out at some bar or at work when SNL was on. After that, I started going to sleep earlier. But I'm not much of a TV watcher in general.

BTW, when did the term wingnut become a pejorative? (And why is it pretty much used by folks who lean left to describe folks who lean right?) It's a useful piece of hardware. Another thing (and this may be a reason why I've become more and more apathetic about politics as I grow older), why is everyone's political enemies on a wing? Surely, there must be some folks who aren't extreme.

There, I've pissed off both sides. I'm probably the only guy who's on the enemy list of folks ranging from RMc to tfbg9 to RETARDO to Nieporent to Vaux to Joey B to who knows who else.
   53. 185/456(GGC) Posted: November 06, 2007 at 02:29 PM (#2606354)
Not to mention the SNL fans that I just pissed off as well.
   54. 185/456(GGC) Posted: November 06, 2007 at 02:30 PM (#2606357)
Did I mention that I'm not much of an indy music fan either?
   55. Zonk demands an audit of your post Posted: November 06, 2007 at 02:32 PM (#2606360)
So I'm nearly the only one that found Norm MacDonald hilarious?

I just don't know you people anymore.

At least we can all agree that Colin Quinn should have long ago settled into a nice office job that didn't require a lot of speaking.
   56. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: November 06, 2007 at 02:33 PM (#2606361)
"He just announced the winners."

Not to spoil anything, but Michelle Malkin in a cheerleader suit is in the top 5.

I wonder what she was thinking when she decided that was a good idea...
   57. Zonk demands an audit of your post Posted: November 06, 2007 at 02:36 PM (#2606362)
Michelle Malkin...

I wonder what she was thinking...


That way madness lies...
   58. Mark R. Garber Posted: November 06, 2007 at 02:40 PM (#2606370)
I'm totally and completely surprised that a Baseball Think Factory thread would become a liberal love-in simply on the basis of the subject of an article daring to have differing political beliefs, none of which were the slightest bit relevant to the issue at hand.
   59. Worrierking Posted: November 06, 2007 at 02:40 PM (#2606371)
I loved Miller on MNF. Favorite quote was when he was talking about Lovie Smith and said that Smith had spent a considerable part of the 1960s married to Jim Backus.
   60. Dan Szymborski Posted: November 06, 2007 at 02:44 PM (#2606378)
To be fair, Beano did bait them - not many of the usual rabble rousers are here. No MCoA, for instance, who is now on record as stating he wishes he had the power to prevent 95% of libertarians from utilizing their right to free speech or non-Scotto Scott who accused me of supporting Jim Crow.
   61. akrasian Posted: November 06, 2007 at 02:46 PM (#2606382)
It looks like Miller picked a poor time for his show to debut. I assume his writers are on strike too - so either the debut can be delayed, or he can try to do it without writers (and the likelihood that it will just suck).
   62. 185/456(GGC) Posted: November 06, 2007 at 02:48 PM (#2606386)
BTW, I usually refer to the New York Football Giants as the Jints to distinguish them from the San Francisco Giants, Phil. Makes sense, seeing how this is a baseball board.
   63. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: November 06, 2007 at 02:50 PM (#2606388)
No MCoA, for instance, who is now on record as stating he wishes he had the power to prevent 95% of libertarians from utilizing their right to free speech
Hey, I'm ok with the 5% of libertarians who have even a vestigial sense of humor continuing to post on the Internet.

EDIT: I guess I should make my point clearer here, cause one-off snark rarely communicates one's point clearly enough. (a) If Dan S. can't tell an obvious joke when he sees one, an exaggeration for comic effect based on a silly counter-factual, then, sure, I am opposed to his right of free speech. Ok. (b) The irony of Dan S. taking the above-it-all stance as the arbiter of what shall count as "baiting" or "rabble-rousing" in the sentence directly before he baited me by taking the most ludicrous and credulous reading of a joke I made in a thread that he wasn't even involved in.
   64. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: November 06, 2007 at 03:00 PM (#2606395)
I'm totally and completely surprised that a Baseball Think Factory thread would become a liberal love-in simply on the basis of the subject of an article daring to have differing political beliefs, none of which were the slightest bit relevant to the issue at hand.

I'm totally and completely surprised that conservatives in a BTF thread would (a) state that liberals support terrorism, and (b) whine about liberals making fun of statement (a).
   65. Slinger Francisco Barrios (Dr. Memory) Posted: November 06, 2007 at 03:01 PM (#2606398)
It looks like Miller picked a poor time for his show to debut. I assume his writers are on strike too - so either the debut can be delayed, or he can try to do it without writers (and the likelihood that it will just suck).

Dennis Miller needing writers is like Pope Alexander VI needing the Curia to pimp out Roman debutantes for use at a Borgian debauch!
   66. Dan Szymborski Posted: November 06, 2007 at 03:01 PM (#2606401)
You've expressed great derision for libertarians in the past and then say you wish you could get 95% of them off the internet - that doesn't sound much like a joke to me. Do you make a lot of jokes about taking people's civil rights away?
   67. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: November 06, 2007 at 03:06 PM (#2606414)
You've expressed great derision for libertarians in the past and then say you wish you could get 95% of them off the internet - that doesn't sound much like a joke to me. Do you make a lot of jokes about taking people's civil rights away?
Um, yes? It's a really obvious place to make jokes - because taking people's civil rights away is obviously unacceptable, one can talk about his or her desire to do so and it will be obvious to his audience, presuming they have ever engaged in human conversation before, that the statement is make with tongue in cheek.
   68. Gaelan Posted: November 06, 2007 at 03:06 PM (#2606416)
If you love Norm MacDonald you are not alone.

Honestly, I think part of the decline of Weekend Update is simply due to the competition that resonates more with Gen-Xers - to me, Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert are both far, far funnier in the fake news genre than Weeekend Update is or ever was.


This is completely true.
   69. villageidiom Posted: November 06, 2007 at 03:07 PM (#2606423)
Do you make a lot of jokes about taking people's civil rights away?

If he does, he should have his children taken away.
   70. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: November 06, 2007 at 03:08 PM (#2606427)
vi makes my point far more pithily and effectively. thank you.
   71. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: November 06, 2007 at 03:09 PM (#2606429)
"...simply on the basis of the subject of an article daring to have differing political beliefs..."

In fairness, if he had publicly humiliated himself in a different way, such as sudden incontinence or cross-dressing, I'm sure people here would be willing to mock him for that, too.
   72. villageidiom Posted: November 06, 2007 at 03:17 PM (#2606444)
vi makes my point far more pithily and effectively. thank you.

And I slightly lean libertarian. I must be one of the 5%.
   73. covelli chris p Posted: November 06, 2007 at 03:21 PM (#2606453)
I must be one of the 5%.

no. please stop posting.
   74. 185/456(GGC) Posted: November 06, 2007 at 03:25 PM (#2606463)
Um, yes? It's a really obvious place to make jokes - because taking people's civil rights away is obviously unacceptable, one can talk about his or her desire to do so and it will be obvious to his audience, presuming they have ever engaged in human conversation before, that the statement is make with tongue in cheek.


Maybe I'm a humorless prick, but I find murder unacceptable and I get upset when people call for managers and others to be shot and such. Not that you do this, Matt. It's a pet peeve of mine and it seems germane to this topic. Wok is the worst offender; calling for fiery death for players who don't meet his standards.

Now death is more heinous than silencing people and we all know that the "children taken away" thing has become a running gag. But I just wanted to throw my $.02 in. Attempts at black humor doesn't always translate well on the net; esp when there's some atagonism between both parties.

This may be weird, but I kind of like you two. But, as implied earlier, I try to turn a blind eye towartds politics.
   75. 185/456(GGC) Posted: November 06, 2007 at 03:28 PM (#2606467)
PS - I hope that Darren forgives me for not knowing who Tony Granadillo was before this weekend.
   76. covelli chris p Posted: November 06, 2007 at 03:30 PM (#2606476)
ewk, re: 74, i think pretty much everybody agrees with you. that said, i think you have to stop posting, too.
   77. Zonk demands an audit of your post Posted: November 06, 2007 at 03:34 PM (#2606487)
For the record...

1. I generally have no problem with libertarians, I just wonder where they've all been the last 6 years. I always thought that the libertarian ethos was about more than tax policy.

2. I enjoyed Dennis Miller on SNL - but I'd slot him into the same place as David Spade... A one-trick pony I just don't find funny anymore. It has nothing to do with his politics.

3. In a way, Norm MacDonald reminds me of Chris Elliott. The Roberto Petagine of the comedy set - underappreciated, under-used, and probably too far past their prime to prove it.
   78. Shredder Posted: November 06, 2007 at 03:34 PM (#2606486)
Comedian Dennis Miller
Doesn't the term "comedian" imply that the person is funny? If so, then I don't know of any Dennis Miller who can be called a comedian.
   79. 185/456(GGC) Posted: November 06, 2007 at 03:35 PM (#2606493)
I probably should, cripsy. It's no good for the blood pressure and I am supposed to be working.
   80. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: November 06, 2007 at 03:37 PM (#2606498)
Now death is more heinous than silencing people and we all know that the "children taken away" thing has become a running gag. But I just wanted to throw my $.02 in. Attempts at black humor doesn't always translate well on the net; esp when there's some atagonism between both parties.
This is fair, and I do try to keep it to situations where it won't be taken the wrong way. I'm certainly not perfectly effective, and I apologize for that.

I will say, though, that in this case, I made the joke in a thread entirely about baseball topics, in which I was making a primary joke about a different topic entirely, and this was merely a side comment. A thread in which there was only one, also joking, response to that comment. A thread which Dan S. apparently bookmarked in anguish to use against me to call me names in a future thread. I find his behavior here completely ridiculous.
   81. Guapo Posted: November 06, 2007 at 03:39 PM (#2606503)
Attempts at black humor doesn't always translate well on the net

ooh, racist
   82. Dag Nabbit at ExactlyAsOld.com Posted: November 06, 2007 at 03:43 PM (#2606514)
Maybe I'm a humorless prick, but I find murder unacceptable and I get upset when people call for managers and others to be shot and such.

Boy, I hope you find more humor in child molestors, Nazi war criminals, and guys who hit homers off of Lee Smith.
   83. Zonk demands an audit of your post Posted: November 06, 2007 at 03:44 PM (#2606516)
Enter Steve Garvey.

Thread complete.
   84. Dan Szymborski Posted: November 06, 2007 at 03:44 PM (#2606518)
We've been here the last 6 years, there's just not really enough of us to have much of a voice in politics. Most libertarians, including myself, would be just fine and dandy to work with Democrats in fighting recent neocon excesses if we had any reason to believe that the Dems don't simply have an alternative vision of statism. I drank the Kool-Aid and voted almost entirely Democratic last November and I've been given no reason to not regret it.
   85. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: November 06, 2007 at 03:45 PM (#2606520)
2. I enjoyed Dennis Miller on SNL - but I'd slot him into the same place as David Spade... A one-trick pony I just don't find funny anymore. It has nothing to do with his politics.

good analogy.

Oh, and MCA's comment was obviously a joke, and hardly comparable to jokes about killing people.
   86. Russ Posted: November 06, 2007 at 03:48 PM (#2606526)
I think a lot of the Normbivalance is that early Norm was not so good, but mid through late Norm was totally awesome. I thought it took a number of episodes for Norm MacDonald to get warmed up and in that time it was downright uncomfortable watching WU. After he settled into the chair, things just got better and better, all the way up until they axed him. I think he was still trending up at the time he left the WU chair .
   87. Dan Szymborski Posted: November 06, 2007 at 03:48 PM (#2606529)
I will say, though, that in this case, I made the joke in a thread entirely about baseball topics, in which I was making a primary joke about a different topic entirely, and this was merely a side comment. A thread in which there was only one, also joking, response to that comment. A thread which Dan S. apparently bookmarked in anguish to use against me to call me names in a future thread. I find his behavior here completely ridiculous.

Bookmarked? It was like two days ago.

Frankly, a joke about taking civil rights from libertarians goes over with libertarians about as well as a joke about taking away voting rights from blacks would go over at an NAACP convention. The thing about offensive humor is that one shouldn't be surprised when people that are the butt of the joke take offense.
   88. 185/456(GGC) Posted: November 06, 2007 at 03:51 PM (#2606534)
A thread which Dan S. apparently bookmarked in anguish to use against me to call me names in a future thread. I find his behavior here completely ridiculous.


Aha. I archive stuff in my mental bookmarks for entirely different reasons. I wonder if I could bring you guys together or wedge you further apart; although Dan is also more of an orthodox in a stathead sense than you're more nuanced approach.

Boy, I hope you find more humor in child molestors, Nazi war criminals, and guys who hit homers off of Lee Smith.


Whatever offense that may have had has worn off thoroughly through repetition over the years.
   89. covelli chris p Posted: November 06, 2007 at 03:51 PM (#2606535)
Frankly, a joke about taking civil rights from libertarians goes over with libertarians about as well as a joke about taking away voting rights from blacks would go over at an NAACP convention.

which is what makes 95% of those who claim to be libertarians so absurd.
   90. 185/456(GGC) Posted: November 06, 2007 at 03:52 PM (#2606538)
Besides, Dag, I know that you're not a firebreather.
   91. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: November 06, 2007 at 03:52 PM (#2606539)
Frankly, a joke about taking civil rights from libertarians goes over with libertarians about as well as a joke about taking away voting rights from blacks would go over at an NAACP convention.
This is, ironically, far more offensive than anything I've ever said on this site.

There is no history of government-run, -sponsored, or -enabled oppression against libertarians as a group. To analogize a political faction, which has never faced oppression for its beliefs in its history, which is built primarily out of wealthy, white people, to the NAACP, that takes an incredible level of historical myopia and insensitivity.
   92. Dan Szymborski Posted: November 06, 2007 at 03:54 PM (#2606544)

There is no history of government-run, -sponsored, or -enabled oppression against libertarians as a group. To analogize a political faction built primarily out of wealthy, white Americans to the NAACP, that takes an incredible level of historical myopia and insensitivity.


Are you serious? Are you familiar with how free speech was punished throughout the history of the world? Apparently not. Tell me, what would happen to me if I declared the king had no power to compel me to do things if I lived anywhere in the 14th century? What would happen to me if I declared that the state had no power to compel me to practice a state religion?
   93. villageidiom Posted: November 06, 2007 at 03:56 PM (#2606549)
I generally have no problem with libertarians, I just wonder where they've all been the last 6 years.

I've been voting for divided government. That's about as good as a libertarian can get these days, realistically. And again, I slightly lean libertarian. I'm hardly representative. (Makes sense; I'm hardly represented.)
   94. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: November 06, 2007 at 03:57 PM (#2606550)
Are you serious? Are you familiar with how free speech was punished throughout the history of the world? Apparently not.
Huh? That's incoherent.

Libertarians, as a group, have never been oppressed for being libertarians. You are wholly unlike groups which have been oppressed for the color of their skin. To analogize yourself as such is both historically ridiculous and ethically vacuous.

EDIT: added quote. villageidiom is quite rarely incoherent.
   95. Zonk demands an audit of your post Posted: November 06, 2007 at 03:58 PM (#2606555)
We've been here the last 6 years, there's just not really enough of us to have much of a voice in politics. Most libertarians, including myself, would be just fine and dandy to work with Democrats in fighting recent neocon excesses if we had any reason to believe that the Dems don't simply have an alternative vision of statism.

I'd argue that you're listening to the wrong Democrats -- the future of the party would seem to me to be more of the Brian Schweitzer/John Tester/Jim Webb wing, a sort of seemingly paradoxical populism/libertarian quilt. There are some substantial issues to be worked out - health care likely first and foremost - but ultimately, even as a self-described "libertarian slanted liberal", I'm quite open-minded on social/fiscal policy.
   96. Dan Szymborski Posted: November 06, 2007 at 04:00 PM (#2606557)
You are wholly unlike groups which have been oppressed for the color of their skin. To analogize yourself as such is both historically ridiculous and ethically vacuous.

To claim that governments have never oppressed people who have espoused libertarian principles is, well, I can't think of a word for how hilarious it is.
   97. covelli chris p Posted: November 06, 2007 at 04:01 PM (#2606559)
*head explodes*
   98. Dan Szymborski Posted: November 06, 2007 at 04:01 PM (#2606560)
Huh? That's incoherent.

Yes, I think my initial analysis was correct - you believe free speech is only for people with Proper Opinions.
   99. 185/456(GGC) Posted: November 06, 2007 at 04:01 PM (#2606562)
Bookmarked? It was like two days ago.


Now I'm semicurious. What thread was that? Can't you guys just agree to disagree?
   100. Dan Szymborski Posted: November 06, 2007 at 04:02 PM (#2606563)
*head explodes*

You're the one who compared Bush to Hitler in the lounge with a straight face and as such, the last one whose head should be exploding.
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