Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Thursday, April 08, 2021

Controversial Michael Conforto hit by pitch gives Mets comeback win over Marlins in home opener

When a lethargic Mets team needed it most, Jeff McNeil provided a shot in the arm.

McNeil’s game-tying home run to lead off the ninth and Michael Conforto’s walk-off hit by pitch minutes later lifted the Mets to a 3-2 win against the Marlins in their home opener on Thursday.

The win came with controversy. Conforto stuck his elbow out over the plate, and the pitch nicked his elbow and went into the catcher Chad Wallach’s mitt. The umpires reviewed the play but let the call stand, leaving the Marlins furious and the Mets with a win.

The late excitement capped a quintessential day at the ballpark for the Mets.

RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: April 08, 2021 at 04:54 PM | 153 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: marlins, mets

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 1 of 2 pages  1 2 > 
   1. Baldrick Posted: April 08, 2021 at 05:00 PM (#6012423)
I can’t believe they’re making us put up with all of the awfulness of replay and they can’t even fix stuff like this.
   2. Scott Lange Posted: April 08, 2021 at 05:22 PM (#6012430)
5.05(b)(2)

He is touched by a pitched ball which he is not attempting to hit unless (A) The ball is in the strike zone when it touches the batter, or (B) The batter makes no attempt to avoid being touched by the ball; (2) If the ball is in the strike zone when it touches the batter, it shall be called a strike, whether or not the batter tries to avoid the ball. If the ball is outside the strike zone when it touches the batter, it shall be called a ball if he makes no attempt to avoid being touched.


It appeared to be an obvious strike and the umpire is visibly and audibly in the process of calling it as such when he processes the fact that it touched the elbow and changes the call, even though it should be irrelevant since he knew it was a strike. That's entirely apart from the (apparently unreviewable) question of whether he made an attempt to avoid it. That could've been reversed after an umpire conference. Failing that, it should be reversed after a protest since it's a misapplication of the rules, not a missed judgement call.

Too many bad umps.
   3. Tom Nawrocki Posted: April 08, 2021 at 05:26 PM (#6012432)
Jon Heyman tweeted:

The Marlins should not have lost that game that way. If protests still existed, that would be a worthy one. Conforto not only made no effort to get out of the way but he nudged his elbow into the strike zone.


I didn't know that protests no longer existed. I agree with Scott, this is a misinterpretation of the rule, since the umpire clearly thought it was a strike, but apparently, there's no recourse for the Marlins.
   4. McCoy Posted: April 08, 2021 at 05:28 PM (#6012433)
Ump blew the call. Plain and simple.
   5. Scott Lange Posted: April 08, 2021 at 05:29 PM (#6012435)
Protests don't exist anymore? God I'm old. Is there truly no recourse for an umpire blowing the rules anymore? If the Yankees take a 1-0 lead in the bottom of the first in Game 7 of the World Series and the umpire says "attention, I hereby conclude that baseball games are one inning long, game over, Yankees win, thaaaaaaaa Yankeees win" there's no recourse? It's just over?
   6. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: April 08, 2021 at 05:35 PM (#6012438)
AFAIK, protests have never been allowed for "judgement calls" (and I'm not sure protests don't exist anymore????).
   7. bunyon Posted: April 08, 2021 at 05:36 PM (#6012439)
If I were Conforto, I would not dig in the rest of the series.

Actually, if I were the ump, I would not assume the C is going to catch the ball the rest of the series.

They should fire every official on the field who was involved with letting this stand. And I hate the Mets.
   8. Scott Lange Posted: April 08, 2021 at 05:47 PM (#6012440)
AFAIK, protests have never been allowed for "judgement calls" (and I'm not sure protests don't exist anymore????).


But that's my point - it's not a judgment call. "I thought it hit him when it didn't" or "I thought he tried to get out of the way when he didn't" would be judgment errors. But here, we know he thought it was in the strike zone because he makes the verbal signal and the hand signal for a strike before changing his mind and sending him to first. Sending someone to first when you think the ball was in the strike zone is a misapplication of the rules, not a judgment error.
   9. . . . . . . Posted: April 08, 2021 at 05:52 PM (#6012444)
woof, that is a terrible terrible call. The sort of terrible call where the league office should step in and make them continue the game tomorrow, once they've had a chance for it to sink in.
   10. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: April 08, 2021 at 05:59 PM (#6012446)
But here, we know he thought it was in the strike zone because he makes the verbal signal and the hand signal for a strike before changing his mind and sending him to first.


Whether or not the pitch is in the strike zone is ultimately a judgment call though. It looked like he was going to call a strike, but he didn't call a strike.
   11. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: April 08, 2021 at 06:01 PM (#6012447)
Actually, if I were the ump, I would not assume the C is going to catch the ball the rest of the series.


He will be at 3B the next game.
   12. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: April 08, 2021 at 06:03 PM (#6012450)
Umpires: HP: Ron Kulpa. 1B: Brian O'Nora. 2B: D.J. Reyburn. 3B: Ryan Blakney.
   13. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: April 08, 2021 at 06:05 PM (#6012452)
How do you even defend a call like that? Certainly the ump knew the rule. "Well, it's usually only enforced if the pitcher has a 50-inning scoreless streak on the line," something like that?
   14. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: April 08, 2021 at 06:08 PM (#6012453)
@AnthonyRieber
I just spoke to umpire Ron Kulpa as a pool reporter. He admitted he didn't call it correctly: “The guy was hit by the pitch in the strike zone. I should have called him out.”


Refreshing candor.
   15. Scott Lange Posted: April 08, 2021 at 06:08 PM (#6012454)
Whether or not the pitch is in the strike zone is ultimately a judgment call though. It looked like he was going to call a strike, but he didn't call a strike.


Well, he kinda did. He made the verbal and hand signals for a strike. But if you want to get metaphysical about it, sure, arguably he ultimately didn't call it a strike, for the very very clear reason that he misapplied the rules. He saw it in the strike zone, made the hand signal for "called strike because it was in the strike zone," made the verbal signal for "called strike because it was in the strike zone," then realized there was a tiny bit of contact and awarded first despite the plain text of rule 5.05(b)(2). You aren't seriously arguing that he decided it was outside the strike zone after all, are you?
   16. . . . . . . Posted: April 08, 2021 at 06:08 PM (#6012455)
Umpires: HP: Ron Kulpa.


lolz water finds its level
   17. 57i66135 is available to babysit, for a price Posted: April 08, 2021 at 06:08 PM (#6012456)
3. You want to fix this, or make sure this doesn’t happen again? It’d be as easy as extending replay review to cover this specific situation, and no other. It wouldn’t come up much, but it’d be pretty easy to get those calls right. But I don’t think there is or should be much appetite for more replay. So just accept that the Marlins got screwed by an umpire’s bad call, the way teams since time immemorial have gotten screwed by umpires’ bad calls. It happens.

4. It’s also really funny. Baseball is better for weird #### happening and going uncorrected.

defector
   18. Scott Lange Posted: April 08, 2021 at 06:09 PM (#6012457)
Oh, and I guess throw in the ump's quote in 14 as evidence that he knew it was in the zone and misapplied the rule too.
   19. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: April 08, 2021 at 06:17 PM (#6012458)
You aren't seriously arguing that he decided it was outside the strike zone after all, are you?


I'm arguing that the rules don't care what the umpire intended, the rules care what the umpire called. I just don't see how a protest wins, even if this seems like a terrible outcome. Maybe I'm wrong.
   20. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: April 08, 2021 at 06:20 PM (#6012460)
@AnthonyRieber
I just spoke to umpire Ron Kulpa as a pool reporter. He admitted he didn't call it correctly: “The guy was hit by the pitch in the strike zone. I should have called him out.”
OK, but somehow you didn't realize that before it was too late? And MLB is just going to let it stand now? That's ridiculous.
   21. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: April 08, 2021 at 06:21 PM (#6012461)
I'm arguing that the rules don't care what the umpire intended, the rules care what the umpire called. I just don't see how a protest wins, even if this seems like a terrible outcome. Maybe I'm wrong.


The umpire called it a strike. He made the punch out signal, as Conforto already had 2 strikes on him. Then he awarded him 1B.
   22. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 08, 2021 at 06:21 PM (#6012462)
Protests don't exist anymore? God I'm old. Is there truly no recourse for an umpire blowing the rules anymore?

There's always recourse. A superior can always over-rule a subordinate. The League can tell them to go back out there and finish the game tomorrow, they just don't have either the brains or the guts to do so.
   23. Scott Lange Posted: April 08, 2021 at 06:22 PM (#6012463)
I'm arguing that the rules don't care what the umpire intended, the rules care what the umpire called. I just don't see how a protest wins, even if this seems like a terrible outcome. Maybe I'm wrong.


We agree that he thought it was in the zone, right? Based on the fact that it looks on TV like a strike, and his hand signal, and his voice signal, and his own words?

And we agree the rules say that when it's in the zone, it's a strike and not a HBP, right?

So then we must agree that sending him to first anyway was a misapplication of the rule and not a judgement call, right? I mean, I guess we don't agree, but which of those three steps am I losing you on?
   24. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: April 08, 2021 at 06:22 PM (#6012464)
4. It’s also really funny. Baseball is better for weird #### happening and going uncorrected.
This is a bizarre, trollish take.
   25. Starring Bradley Scotchman as RMc Posted: April 08, 2021 at 06:27 PM (#6012466)
The Marlins should not have lost that game that way.

To be fair, the Marlins lose games in all kinds of ways.
   26. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: April 08, 2021 at 06:28 PM (#6012467)
The last successful protest was the Pine Tar game IIRC. And that one was incorrectly decided in the Yankees favor. So this one, had a protest been lodged, would have been the first successful protest since God knows when.

edit: Actually, I'm mistaken. It was incorrectly not upheld in the Royals favor.
   27. Scott Lange Posted: April 08, 2021 at 06:30 PM (#6012468)
So this one, had a protest been lodged, would have been the first successful protest since God knows when.


The Marlins have until noon tomorrow, according to the 2019 MLB rules, which seem to be the most up-to-date ones available on mlb.com. There's that Heyman tweet above saying protests don't actually exist anymore, but I haven't seen that anywhere else so I'm not sure if it's right.
   28. JJ1986 Posted: April 08, 2021 at 06:30 PM (#6012469)
I thought there was one within the last 5 years.
   29. Tom Nawrocki Posted: April 08, 2021 at 06:33 PM (#6012470)
In the thread following that Heyman tweet, he's getting some pushback on his claim that protests don't exist anymore. So it's possible he's just wrong about that.
   30. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: April 08, 2021 at 06:35 PM (#6012472)
Ah yes. The infamous tarp malfunction at Wrigley.
   31. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: April 08, 2021 at 06:38 PM (#6012473)
And I'm twice wrong in 26. the protest WAS upheld in the Royals favor. Sheesh. A mind is a terrible thing to waste. And it's terrible to lose one's mind.
   32. Scott Lange Posted: April 08, 2021 at 06:38 PM (#6012474)
MLB.com's glossary (https://www.mlb.com/glossary/rules/protested-game) and the wiki page for protested games (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protested_game) both cite the long-standing protest rule with no mention of it going away. I'm guessing Heyman is just thinking of something else, and the Marlins do in fact have to noon to protest, after which it seems clear to me that it should be upheld.
   33. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: April 08, 2021 at 06:41 PM (#6012475)
They should definitely protest.
   34. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: April 08, 2021 at 06:42 PM (#6012476)
Had the ump not done his mea Kulpa, it could be argued he initially called it a strike but was wrong about that. But he admitted he misapplied the rule after the game.
   35. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: April 08, 2021 at 07:18 PM (#6012483)
Well done, Misirlou!
   36. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: April 08, 2021 at 07:22 PM (#6012484)
Credit goes to swoboda on the island of misfit toys.
   37. I Knew A Guy Who Knew A Guy Who Knew Rey Ordonez Posted: April 08, 2021 at 07:41 PM (#6012490)
I thought there was one within the last 5 years.


The Red Sox seem to have been involved in a bunch of those types of games, but always win them, and you can't protest a game you win.
   38. sunday silence (again) Posted: April 08, 2021 at 07:43 PM (#6012491)
Heyman seems to say idiotic things so there's that.

We know that protests must have existed at least in 2017 because when Nats lost to the Cubs on that inn. where the bat hit the catcher in the head, it was pointed out that Baker should have protested the game at that pt. So that was 3 1/2 years ago.

The whole notion is insane. How can protests NOT exist? Heyman is idiotic
   39. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: April 08, 2021 at 07:46 PM (#6012492)
I can’t believe they’re making us put up with all of the awfulness of replay and they can’t even fix stuff like this.

This, a thousand times this.

They STILL have arbitrary bullshit rules around replay that make it super inefficient while also not actually raising the level of officiating in the game.
   40. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: April 08, 2021 at 07:47 PM (#6012493)
How can protests NOT exist?

Manfred says he is open to considering it.
   41. sunday silence (again) Posted: April 08, 2021 at 07:48 PM (#6012495)
looking at the video are we sure it even hit him?

YOu can never know about appeals, but I would say an appeal is likely to be successful.
   42. Mayor Blomberg Posted: April 08, 2021 at 07:57 PM (#6012499)
About the only reason I can see a protest being upheld is the mea Kulpa. Misapplied rule worked in the pine-tar game, whereas bad calls are not overruled on protest.

To hell with getting out of the way, he turned his forearm into the pitch
   43. vortex of dissipation Posted: April 08, 2021 at 08:11 PM (#6012500)
From retosheet:

Resumed Protested Game: 6/13/1943

In the top of the ninth after PHI tied the game at 3-3, Babe Dahlgren batted with the bases full and 2 out. He deliberately stepped into a pitch. The rules stated he should have been called out but the ump (Reardon) ruled no play and Dahlgren then hit a 3 run double. The Phils won 6-3. Ford Frick reversed it but ordered the home 9th to count, contrary to the normal procedure of resuming the game from the point of the protest. On August 6, the game restarted with the top of the 10th. The Phils went out 1-2-3. The Giants then got 3 walks, a dropped pop foul, then a 4th walk to win 4-3.
   44. Steve Balboni's Personal Trainer Posted: April 08, 2021 at 08:16 PM (#6012502)
When you listen to the full audio of the METS announcers instantly knowing this is blatantly terrible if they don't fix this call, and then watching as the umpires look at the replay...and then doing nothing to fix it...it honestly feels like pro wrestling. I'm expecting Ric Flair to swing a folding chair at Mattingly or something.

One thing that makes this even worse: Sometimes there will be a blown call in a football or basketball game (a missed travel, an uncalled facemask, etc.) that if it had been called, it would have negated a play, but then the next play happens, and it is too late, and the game goes on.

But in this case, the umpire had literally called it strike three - you can see and hear him signal it - so you don't have the problem of "undoing" subsequent game action. This is about as easy to fix as any blown call. And, as others have noted, there is a written rule that says if you get hit by a strike, it does not count as a HBP. The umpire called it a strike! How is that not reversable upon the umpires getting together? Didn't one of them go, "Hey, you called it a strike, right? Well then isn't there a rule for that to get us out of this situation?" But nobody did. Vince McMahon kind of stuff.
   45. McCoy Posted: April 08, 2021 at 08:29 PM (#6012505)
It's probably more likely that they knew about it but didn't want to reverse the call because umpires just don't do that. It's against their ethos.
   46. Walt Davis Posted: April 08, 2021 at 09:41 PM (#6012510)
you can't protest a game you win.

Technically speaking, I think you can. There's just no reward for you in doing so and you drop the protest (or never officially file it, whatever).

As to Heyman, his best defense is "what I meant was that protests are never upheld therefore they might as well not exist."
   47. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: April 08, 2021 at 09:41 PM (#6012511)


We agree that he thought it was in the zone, right? Based on the fact that it looks on TV like a strike, and his hand signal, and his voice signal, and his own words?

And we agree the rules say that when it's in the zone, it's a strike and not a HBP, right?

So then we must agree that sending him to first anyway was a misapplication of the rule and not a judgement call, right? I mean, I guess we don't agree, but which of those three steps am I losing you on?,


You're arguing a common sense approach, which is probably how these things should be handled, but baseball tends to look at these things through a legalistic lens. We are 99.9 percent certain he would have called it a strike. After the fact he said it was a strike. But he didn't call it a strike. So baseball is not going to assume a strike call. Look at the Armando Galarraga perfect game. The runner was clearly out. The replays showed he was out. Jim Joyce admitted he was out. Everyone in the world knows he was out. Does it count as a perfect game? No. Because Jim Joyce called him safe. And baseball didn't overrule him because it was a judgment call. They're not going to substitute any kind of judgment and since the umpire never called a strike, they're not going to assume it, despite all the evidence he was going to call it.
   48. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: April 08, 2021 at 09:53 PM (#6012513)
Because Jim Joyce called him safe. And baseball didn't overrule him because it was a judgment call. They're not going to substitute any kind of judgment and since the umpire never called a strike, they're not going to assume it, despite all the evidence he was going to call it.


First of all, the Galarraga game is irrelevant, because it did not change the outcome of the game. Secondly, he DID call it a strike. He said strike, and punched him out, and then he reversed himself, not because he changed his mind and thought it was a ball. But because he misapplied the HBP rule (That was a strike, but because it hit him, I'm awarding him 1B). This is EXACTLY what protests are meant to address. It would be like an umpire calling a foul ball into the stands a HR because it left the playing field. It could not be more clear.
   49. The Duke Posted: April 08, 2021 at 10:03 PM (#6012515)
Apparently the ump did a Mea Kulpa after the game
   50. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: April 08, 2021 at 10:03 PM (#6012516)
Do we still do cokes here?
   51. Jose Is An Absurd Balladeer Posted: April 08, 2021 at 10:26 PM (#6012524)
I think a vast majority of complaints about umpires are overblown and frankly silly...but this is appalling. I’m with those saying a protest should be lodged and upheld. That is pretty clearly a misapplied rule. The pitch was called a strike, if it’s a strike the HBP is no longer relevant The teams play Saturday at 1PM, there is no reason at all not to pick up the game from the moment that happened and then play the second game afterward.
   52. Mayor Blomberg Posted: April 08, 2021 at 10:31 PM (#6012525)
50 - put one on my tab
   53. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: April 08, 2021 at 10:35 PM (#6012528)
I'll pass it on to swoboda
   54. Rough Carrigan Posted: April 08, 2021 at 11:42 PM (#6012543)
Brilliant, #50!

And somewhere Angel Hernandez is calling his lawyer asking if he can cite this incident in an appeal to say that, as bad as he is, he might not be below average.
   55. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: April 08, 2021 at 11:45 PM (#6012544)
The Mets doing the swarm-Conforto-and-jump-up-and-down thing was pretty douchy too.
   56. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: April 08, 2021 at 11:53 PM (#6012546)
Yes. Kind of like cheering a double fault.
   57. DFA Posted: April 09, 2021 at 12:00 AM (#6012547)
AROD would have been proud of Conforto!
   58. Lowry Seasoning Salt Posted: April 09, 2021 at 12:10 AM (#6012548)
They STILL have arbitrary bullshit rules around replay that make it super inefficient while also not actually raising the level of officiating in the game.


The level of officiating that replay could help has not been an issue. In the seven years of replay from 2014–2020, 7,597 calls were reviewed by team challenge and all of 51% were overturned. It's been a waste of everyone's time. Internet of threads like this and other media attention seeking a world that's executed justly has led to this blight which will now never go away.
   59. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: April 09, 2021 at 12:17 AM (#6012549)
In the seven years of replay from 2014–2020, 7,597 calls were reviewed by team challenge and all of 51% were overturned.


A, that’s a lot. But B, it’s a much higher percentage than would be if teams could not review the replay before calling the challenge.
   60. Lowry Seasoning Salt Posted: April 09, 2021 at 12:44 AM (#6012551)
Considering how many games and plays take place in 7 years—even in this TTO era—I don't think that' a lot of overturned rulings. And to me, the fact that teams review before challenging and still are only successful half the time is much more a bug than a feature.
   61. Walt Davis Posted: April 09, 2021 at 01:09 AM (#6012553)
I think the point is more that, over a few seasons, half of the "close enough to challenge" plays went your way, half didn't. They challenged the half that went your way and get half of those to go their way; you challenge the half that went their way and you get half of those to go your way ... and everybody still ends up at 50/50.

(Warning, I'm being sly ... no matter what the overturn rate is, you end up at 50/50 as long as you started at 50/50 and neither manager is better than average at challenging.)

Considering how many games and plays take place in 7 years—even in this TTO era—I don't think that' a lot of overturned rulings.

Sure but the vast, vast majority of potentially challengable rulings are blindingly obvious. Take out the un-challengable Ks and BBs, all the FBs where there was clearly no trap, nearly all the HRs, the standard singles, doubles and triples ... there's not much left to realistically challenge. A fair chunk of the challenges that were made were the result of "we're about to lose our challenge, that was kinda close, might as well use it, maybe we'll get lucky."

Anyway, the only way replay isn't excessively annoying is if it's left up to the umpires to request it and the umpires are actually honest about "I didn't get a great look at that" or "I think you got that one wrong." (I don't hold out much hope for that last condition.) At least then you know it's only being done to get the call right. Note "replay" here versus "automated calling that only takes a couple of seconds." I don't find the line judge system in tennis annoying at all (not that I watch that much tennis) and I don't think I'd find automated ball/strike calls annoying. In rugby union, a lot of the tries are reviewed at the referee's request to make sure the player had control when he downed the ball (or was even able to down the ball although replay often isn't very clear on that one) and I've never gotten annoyed at that.

In this example, it is disappointing that nobody on the crew spoke up in real time. I don't recall ever seeing an umpire start to call a strike then call a HBP. Maybe that's why Froemming waited 15 minutes before calling the strike. (That was Froemming who used to have the big delay wasn't it? Runge?)
   62. Lowry Seasoning Salt Posted: April 09, 2021 at 01:16 AM (#6012554)
(Warning, I'm being sly ... no matter what the overturn rate is, you end up at 50/50 as long as you started at 50/50 and neither manager is better than average at challenging.)


When I looked after 2019, for whatever reason(s) the Yankees were better than everyone at challenging over the span of replay, something like 75% successful. No idea what they've done differently. There was another team at a comparable rate, don't remember which now, but after them was a big drop.

Sure but the vast, vast majority of potentially challengable rulings are blindingly obvious.


With ill intent I could interpret this as a defense of the challenges for a runner's foot coming off a base for a split second. So there are those plays (foot/hand comes off for less than a second) and there are those that you describe as "blindingly obvious," which brings me back to my initial point, that replay is a "blight which will now never go away."
   63. Adam Starblind Posted: April 09, 2021 at 07:40 AM (#6012557)
from 2014–2020, 7,597 calls were reviewed by team challenge and all of 51% were overturned


This is a huge percentage.

It would go down if you eliminated the “centimeter off the base for a split second during a slide,” which I think most of us would like to see. I’d also like to see fair/foul calls, HR calls, and bang-bang plays at first called correctly.
   64. Jose Is An Absurd Balladeer Posted: April 09, 2021 at 08:12 AM (#6012558)
Maybe that's why Froemming waited 15 minutes before calling the strike. (That was Froemming who used to have the big delay wasn't it? Runge?)


Tim McClelland is the guy I always think about who was really really slow at calling balls and strikes.
   65. dejarouehg Posted: April 09, 2021 at 08:16 AM (#6012559)
Maybe that's why Froemming waited 15 minutes before calling the strike. (That was Froemming who used to have the big delay wasn't it? Runge?)


And the weeble still got it wrong in what should have been Milt Pappas' perfect game.
   66. Jose Is An Absurd Balladeer Posted: April 09, 2021 at 08:38 AM (#6012562)
from 2014–2020, 7,597 calls were reviewed by team challenge and all of 51% were overturned


There are 2430 games a year. So over 6 full years that's one review every two games and one overturn every four games. Both of those are rarer than I would have guessed.
   67. dejarouehg Posted: April 09, 2021 at 08:38 AM (#6012563)
The level of officiating that replay could help has not been an issue. In the seven years of replay from 2014–2020, 7,597 calls were reviewed by team challenge and all of 51% were overturned. It's been a waste of everyone's time. Internet of threads like this and other media attention seeking a world that's executed justly has led to this blight which will now never go away.


So at an average of 75 seconds per call, that's about 4650 wasted hours. I don't like replay in any sport; it just reduces the entertainment value of a game, but it's not going anywhere. I think the managers should have 10 seconds, at most, to challenge. If they're so smart, then it should be an immediate response, just like when they used to come out and argue. And, if it takes more than 45 seconds (once the replays are lined up by the tv people,) then the call stands. (I'd eliminate a time limit for any game after September.)

Should also be limited to fair/foul, plays at the plate and HR or not HR. Let's just live with the rest. (Then again, I've just recently become a convert to advocating an automated strike zone.) They should also have the softball bag at 1B to prevent injuries and lights up/makes noise when the runner makes contact so that it makes it easier for the ump to make the bang-bang call.

Had a conversation in 2018 with an ump who at the time was a Triple A ump but got a brief call-up to the bigs last year about the HBP rule. (He regularly umped pre-season intra-squad games at his alma mater, where my son was pitching and had an affinity for hitting batters.) We debated whether a pitch that hit a batter over an imaginary cylinder over the plate should ever be considered an HBP. He mentioned that it was being considered by the ruled committee as a non-HBP. In this case, we were really talking about an elbow hanging over the plate but it's nonsense that batters get there calls on any body part that is outside the batters box.

This has bothered me back to the days of watching Rickey Henderson face Nolan Ryan. If Rickey's head is over the plate and gets plunked on what would be at the letters of a tall batter, why should Ryan be penalized? I know, a little extreme.
   68. Jose Is An Absurd Balladeer Posted: April 09, 2021 at 08:55 AM (#6012565)
I think the managers should have 10 seconds, at most, to challenge. If they're so smart, then it should be an immediate response, just like when they used to come out and argue. And, if it takes more than 45 seconds (once the replays are lined up by the tv people,) then the call stands. (I'd eliminate a time limit for any game after September.)


Don't even need that. Fifth ump on every crew sitting in the press box. The ump has three flags, black red and green. The ump has 10 seconds after a play ends to decide if it needs a review. If it's deemed review-worthy he waves the black flag. There are then 30 seconds to review the play; red flag over turn, green flag call stands.

The Red Sox on Opening Day got a lead off single from Kike Hernandez. Hernandez then got picked off but was ruled safe. The Orioles dicked around for 20-30 seconds then challenged. Then the umps had to trudge over to the T-Mobile Replay Station Sponsored by Summer's Eve or whatever it's called. By the time the umps put on the headsets to start the ####### process NESN had shown three replays and it was already obvious that Hernandez would be ruled out.

It's idiotic. I don't like replay but if they are going to do it they should do it well.
   69. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 09, 2021 at 09:04 AM (#6012566)
It's idiotic. I don't like replay but if they are going to do it they should do it well.

Agree on the first part, and they'll never do it right, because they'll never set an appropriate objective. You could conceivably get it right if you set an objective of reversing only the most egregious calls within 20 seconds, you could do it. But the "You gotta get every call right" mouthbreathers will never accept it.
   70. Jose Is An Absurd Balladeer Posted: April 09, 2021 at 09:20 AM (#6012570)
and they'll never do it right


100% agree.
   71. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: April 09, 2021 at 09:48 AM (#6012573)
So at an average of 75 seconds per call, that's about 4650 wasted hours.

Huh? It’s like 158 hours. 4,650 hours would be 36 minutes per review. Unless you were making a joke in which case it went over my head.
   72. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: April 09, 2021 at 11:17 AM (#6012577)
AROD would have been proud of Conforto!


You mean Jeter?
   73. The Gary DiSarcina Fan Club (JAHV) Posted: April 09, 2021 at 11:58 AM (#6012580)
With ill intent I could interpret this as a defense of the challenges for a runner's foot coming off a base for a split second.


I still don't understand why this is bad. If a runner is not touching the base and he is tagged, he's out. That's been a rule in baseball forever, as far as I know. My only complaint with this type of challenge is that it has probably helped along the TTO-fueled decrease in base stealing, but that's a complaint with the byproduct, not with the act itself. And the solution to that problem is to figure out a way for runners to be able to maintain contact with bases, not to change the rule on tags or to get rid of replay wholesale. (My recommendation is to change the material of the bases, since the current ones are injury risks in other ways, but I don't know if that would work.)

This is still entertainment, so I'm fine if we tweak replay. Use a fifth umpire to determine if a play should be reviewed; don't give that to managers. And set a time limit to keep the game moving - if you can't spot a problem in 30 or 45 seconds, the play stands as called and we move along.

This play should have never gotten to that point, though. The umpires should have gotten together and made the right call.
   74. dejarouehg Posted: April 09, 2021 at 12:31 PM (#6012584)
Huh? It’s like 158 hours. 4,650 hours would be 36 minutes per review. Unless you were making a joke in which case it went over my head.


You are correct that I got it wrong. Meant to type minutes but my hyperbole got the best of me - though my intention was to quantify the uncorrected (49%) plays.

After doing the math, I realized that I just bored myself to tears.

7597 Plays
3722.53 49% of Plays
279189.75 @ 75 seconds/play
4653.1625 /60 = minutes wasted
77.55270833 /60 = hours wasted

Bottom line, the game was better with less replay and a good occasional manager-umpire argument.
   75. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 09, 2021 at 12:34 PM (#6012587)
I still don't understand why this is bad. If a runner is not touching the base and he is tagged, he's out.

Because it's obsessing over millimeters and does nothing to improve the game. It makes it worse by adding delay, and giving fielders an incentive to hold the tag and often even try and push the guy off the base.

Baseball was designed to be played to the tolerance of human observation. When you impose super-human observation you just cause delay and weirdness to no benefit.

How is the game better if the guy who used to be safe with a margin of +2 MMs is now out after a long delay? Everyone used to get the same treatment; no advantage is gained or lost.
   76. dejarouehg Posted: April 09, 2021 at 12:36 PM (#6012588)
The Red Sox on Opening Day got a lead off single from Kike Hernandez. Hernandez then got picked off but was ruled safe. The Orioles dicked around for 20-30 seconds then challenged. Then the umps had to trudge over to the T-Mobile Replay Station Sponsored by Summer's Eve or whatever it's called. By the time the umps put on the headsets to start the ####### process NESN had shown three replays and it was already obvious that Hernandez would be ruled out.


I was really looking forward to watching a real game. The replay took so long, I changed the channel and didn't go back until much later. Maybe it's just late onset of ADD.....or the annoying voice of Dennis Eckersley
   77. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: April 09, 2021 at 12:44 PM (#6012589)
first off, i'd 100% try to draw the hbp like this if i were conforto (and that was consistent with how i try to hit, etc)
--
i'm pro-replay if and only if you can do it fast. which i think you can. however, letting the perfect be the enemy of the good isn't something i want here. on the flip side, if we can quickly and easily go beyond the limits of a flawed human's observation skills, i say go for it.
   78. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 09, 2021 at 12:45 PM (#6012590)
I was really looking forward to watching a real game. The replay took so long, I changed the channel and didn't go back until much later. Maybe it's just late onset of ADD.....or the annoying voice of Dennis Eckersley

The tragedy is that baseball doesn't need that level of precision on calls to be great. Baseball thrived for 150 years with well known blown calls in big spots. No one stopped watching over Denkinger or Galarraga, or Hrbek grabbing Gant's leg, or Reggie sticking his ass into a throw on the bases.
   79. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 09, 2021 at 12:47 PM (#6012592)
if we can quickly and easily go beyond the limits of a flawed human's observation skills, i say go for it.

But history has shown us it will neither be quick, easy, or accurate.

In football and baseball replay has actually changed how the game is player. Plays that were a catch for 75 years were legislated into incompletions to suit replay. The way runners slide into a base, and are tagged, and are pushed and prodded by fielders has been distorted to suit replay.
   80. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: April 09, 2021 at 12:51 PM (#6012593)
In football and baseball replay has actually changed how the game is player. Plays that were a catch for 75 years were legislated into incompletions to suit replay. The way runners slide into a base, and are tagged, and are pushed and prodded by fielders has been distorted to suit replay
i am okay with this. similarly, the way catchers receive pitches will change once strike calling is automated.

But history has shown us it will neither be quick, easy, or accurate.
reasonable people can differ on the thresholds for those three terms and, just because replay hasn't been implemented in the ways that i think that it should, doesn't mean that it's not worth doing.

it is not, however, anything i spend a great deal of time thinking about. (apart from the impact on automated strike calling on catcher development and utilization)
   81. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 09, 2021 at 12:53 PM (#6012595)
i am okay with this. similarly, the way catchers receive pitches will change once strike calling is automated.

It's made football unwatchable for me.

similarly, the way catchers receive pitches will change once strike calling is automated.


And this could be awful as well. If catchers and pitchers can trigger the electronic "eye" on pitches that were never strikes, that will be terrible.

reasonable people can differ on the thresholds for those three terms and, just because replay hasn't been implemented in the ways that i think that it should, doesn't mean that it's not worth doing.

I still come back to the why. They don't get the calls 100% right with replay, not even close. Why is it worth imposing delays and altering the game in unaesthetic ways to move from 98% correct to 98.5% correct?

There is no observable improvement in the game from the increase in "correctness" we have seen.
   82. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: April 09, 2021 at 01:00 PM (#6012596)
that 0.5% delta can make a meaningful difference who who does or doesn't win - that's a potentially good reason.
(having said that, a lot of this should wash out over the course of a season. again, i'm not hung up on replay either way.)

oh - on strike calling automation (which does seem to me to be a very big deal), the flip side includes what types of pitchers will be successful - that's also very interesting. the notion that horizontal movement and sliders may be less valuable and vertical movement and 12-6 curves more, that high strikes could get more valuable, and so on - that also occupies some brain space for me. (this can be dealt with by changing what we call the strike zone to match whatever we really want said zone to be.)
   83. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 09, 2021 at 01:03 PM (#6012597)
oh - on strike calling automation (which does seem to me to be a very big deal), the flip side includes what types of pitchers will be successful - that's also very interesting. the notion that horizontal movement and sliders may be less valuable and vertical movement and 12-6 curves more, that high strikes could get more valuable, and so on - that also occupies some brain space for me. (this can be dealt with by changing what we call the strike zone to match whatever we really want said zone to be.)

I'm fine with this as long as new pitches don't become strikes. A pitch that clips the very front of the zone and hits home plate isn't a strike.

I have no faith they will dynamically adjust the zone appropriately. They can't eliminate the 30 delay between pitches, which is suffocating the game, even though the rule to address it already exists. Why would we think MLB can do this right?
   84. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: April 09, 2021 at 01:36 PM (#6012598)
they won't be trying to implement at the big league level any time soon, i don't think - the idea of refining how this works in indy and minor league ball is a good one.
your concern that pitches will be called strikes that aren't today is unavoidable, i think. current plan is the make the strike zone a plane at the front of the plate - which would create that possibility (strike that hits the plate) if a pitch broke downward enough. i'm curious if hitters would counter by moving up in the box, though i think that the velocity gains we've seen by pitchers might prevent that.

Why would we think MLB can do this right?
oh, they won't! :)
   85. Jose Is An Absurd Balladeer Posted: April 09, 2021 at 01:39 PM (#6012599)

I still don't understand why this is bad. If a runner is not touching the base and he is tagged, he's out.


I don't mind the guy being called out on such a play, I mind the 2,3 even 4 minute delay to figure it out. I just don't care enough about any call to take that kind of time to get it right. Sports is entertainment and yes I want the calls to be right but I accept that it's not perfect. As a fan it actively harms the experience of watching a game to realize that what I'm seeing on the screen doesn't count.

As far as posts 80-83 go I'm highly skeptical that roboumps on balls and strikes is going to be a better thing.
   86. The Gary DiSarcina Fan Club (JAHV) Posted: April 09, 2021 at 01:57 PM (#6012600)
I don't mind the guy being called out on such a play, I mind the 2,3 even 4 minute delay to figure it out. I just don't care enough about any call to take that kind of time to get it right. Sports is entertainment and yes I want the calls to be right but I accept that it's not perfect. As a fan it actively harms the experience of watching a game to realize that what I'm seeing on the screen doesn't count.


It seems like everyone ignored this part of my post: This is still entertainment, so I'm fine if we tweak replay. Use a fifth umpire to determine if a play should be reviewed; don't give that to managers. And set a time limit to keep the game moving - if you can't spot a problem in 30 or 45 seconds, the play stands as called and we move along.

I want every call to be right within limits. I'm willing to undergo a 45-second review to get a call right, and if in that 45 seconds, we see a guy get tagged while his foot is off the base, then he's out. If it takes longer than that to determine, the call wasn't bad enough to take any more time. I'm also in favor of keeping human umpires calling balls and strikes. As frustrating as it can be to see a missed call on a pitch, I do think pitch framing and personalized zones (as long as they're not egregious) makes the game more interesting.
   87. dejarouehg Posted: April 09, 2021 at 02:06 PM (#6012601)
that 0.5% delta can make a meaningful difference who who does or doesn't win - that's a potentially good reason.


Not if it ruins the entertainment value of the product.

In the order of priority of professional sports, if the widely perceived value of entertainment isn't greater than the value of winning (or, getting it right,"), then you have nothing.


Snapper, couldn't agree more about football but we are clearly in a minority.

Touchdown (2 minute replay on non-disputed call), XP, commercial, kickoff, commercial......never again.
   88. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: April 09, 2021 at 02:12 PM (#6012603)
i don't want to ruin the entertainment value either and favor, more generally, a more sped-up game. (i draw the line at extra inning ghost runners, mind you.)
i don't think that because mlb is implementing replay (imo) poorly now that it shouldn't be explored or used in the future. (i'd like a time limit, for example, of 30* seconds to make a decision.)
* where 30 is a number i chose arbitraily. would pick my "real" # after i learned more about the mechanics and limits of the technology.

(i don't watch football anymore, for reasons unrelated to anything we'd discuss here.)
   89. dejarouehg Posted: April 09, 2021 at 02:24 PM (#6012605)
i don't want to ruin the entertainment value either and favor, more generally, a more sped-up game. (i draw the line at extra inning ghost runners, mind you.)
i don't think that because mlb is implementing replay (imo) poorly now that it shouldn't be explored or used in the future.

(i don't watch football anymore, for reasons unrelated to anything we'd discuss here.)


Agree on the hideousness of ghost runners. Then again, I find extra inning games incredibly entertaining. I still feel the same goofy enjoyment I had as a kid. I love players playing out of position, the next day's starter having to pitch the 19th inning and the consequential impact, position players pitching, the celebration of the walk-off (if there is one, and it's my team), etc.

If 9 innings is good, how could more not be better? I remember how much fun I had taking my 5 year old to what turned out to be a 12 or 13 inning Mets game against the Cubs and the plan we conjured up about how to deal with his mother in the morning when he had to get up for school.

Ghost runners just another attempt to fix something that isn't broken.

   90. dejarouehg Posted: April 09, 2021 at 02:26 PM (#6012606)
What's really interesting about all of this, which I think may have been addressed upthread and certainly in many other threads, is that if MLB just implemented the pitch clock and forced the batter to stay in the box, everything else would likely fall in line, or at least be less aggravating, because the game would move.
   91. The Gary DiSarcina Fan Club (JAHV) Posted: April 09, 2021 at 02:28 PM (#6012607)
In the order of priority of professional sports, if the widely perceived value of entertainment isn't greater than the value of winning (or, getting it right,"), then you have nothing.


Sure, but entertainment is subjective. I think a lot of people are willing to take the couple minute break so they can see the correct call made. There are people who are happy with 98% of calls being right and no replay. There are people (like me) who'd be happy with 99% of calls being right with time-limited replay. There are people who are only happy when as many calls as possible, say 99.5%, are correct, regardless of how long replay takes. I don't think the current system is a great solution for any of those groups of people, but maybe MLB knows something about the how much those groups are willing to tolerate and still be fans.

All those numbers are pulled directly from my rear end, so I don't know how accurate they are, but I think the principles hold.
   92. KronicFatigue Posted: April 09, 2021 at 03:00 PM (#6012610)
You're arguing a common sense approach, which is probably how these things should be handled, but baseball tends to look at these things through a legalistic lens. We are 99.9 percent certain he would have called it a strike. After the fact he said it was a strike. But he didn't call it a strike. So baseball is not going to assume a strike call. Look at the Armando Galarraga perfect game. The runner was clearly out. The replays showed he was out. Jim Joyce admitted he was out. Everyone in the world knows he was out. Does it count as a perfect game? No. Because Jim Joyce called him safe. And baseball didn't overrule him because it was a judgment call. They're not going to substitute any kind of judgment and since the umpire never called a strike, they're not going to assume it, despite all the evidence he was going to call it.


Since the ball hit conforto, no judgment of ball vs strike was ever made, and thus it's not a judgment call. I think the definition of "judgment" is being stretched too thin to argue against the protest-ability.

Every MLB play involves dozens of "judgments" by the umpires, both stated and implied. You can't waive away a protest by pointing to some of those judgments. If an umpire started awarding runs to a team for touching the plate without first touching 1st/2nd/3rd, we wouldn't suggest that's un-protestable b/c it's his "judgment" that that is how a run is defined.

If the umpire said "i believe that ball was out of the strikezone, and I believe Conforto made an attempt to get out of the way", his judgment would be awful (on both counts), but it would be the facts that the league would have to work with. Circling back to the legalese way of looking at this, it's akin to a summary judgment motion. Certain facts are agreed to by both sides, and the ones that aren't agreed to have to be viewed in a light most favorable to the side trying to deny the motion.

1) Mets, Marlins, and ump agree the ball hit Conforto. There is no "judgment" here, it's a fact, for the purposes of the protest.
2) Marlins believe the ball was in the strikezone. We don't care what the Mets think.
3) ** The Ump has to make a "judgment" on whether the ball was in the strikezone, but once he does, that becomes a fact that can't be overruled in protest.**
4) The protest has to say the rule that was used to handle 1 and 3 happening was applied incorrectly, misinterpreted, etc.


All evidence points to the Ump thinking it was in the strikezone. He didn't make a ruling at the time, because he literally couldn't (the ball never gets to be judged the second it hits Conforto).

Could you maybe provide an example of a protestable play that doesn't include any judgments?

   93. Lassus Posted: April 09, 2021 at 05:05 PM (#6012616)
Michael Conforto masturbates with your tears, losers.
   94. The Duke Posted: April 09, 2021 at 05:47 PM (#6012620)
63 and 67 have this right. Just focus on a few key areas. I don’t think that trimming back replay is inconsistent with wanting robot umps. Robot umps are just replacing human umps. The game doesn’t change. What constitutes the strike zone might change and players may need to adjust, but I’m confident they can work that out

The real issue has always been “are you trying to please the fan at the ballpark or at home and is your goal to get it right at any cost, some cost, minimal cost”.

When I’m at home I’m more tolerant of replay but I hate it at the ballpark. It ruins the natural rhythm of the game, means that every close play takes 5 minutes to resolve and ruins the spontaneity of the crowd.

I’d limit it to what was said above and make managers make a real time call, no referring to the booth. And I’d give each team one challenge regardless of success/failure. I would allow umps to go to replay once a game to get it right if they need to - the comforto thing needs a way to be overturned.
   95. Adam Starblind Posted: April 09, 2021 at 05:52 PM (#6012622)
Doesn’t appear the Marlins attempted to lodge a protest, FWIW to you lawyers and lawyer wannabes out there.
   96. Jobu is silent on the changeup Posted: April 09, 2021 at 08:17 PM (#6012631)
Heyman seems to say idiotic things so there's that.
I didn't know he even wrote about baseball other than to puff up a Boras client.
   97. Space Force fan Posted: April 09, 2021 at 08:40 PM (#6012633)
Since the ball hit conforto, no judgment of ball vs strike was ever made, and thus it's not a judgment call. I think the definition of "judgment" is being stretched too thin to argue against the protest-ability.


Since the rules state that a ball that hits a batter is a HBP if outside of the strike zone and not a HBP if a strike, the umpire HAS to determine ball v strike prior to calling a HBP. If I was the manager, the first thing I would have asked the umpire was whether the pitch was over the plate. If he said yes, then quote the rule about HBP. If the umpire says that it was not over the plate, then there is not much recourse.

Could you maybe provide an example of a protestable play that doesn't include any judgments


Say an infielder throws that ball into the stands while trying to get someone out. What base the batter (and any runners) get is defined by the rules. If the umpire puts the runners on the wrong base, that would be protestable. There are stadium ground rules. For example in Wrigley, if the ball gets stuck in the ivy its a dead ball and there are specific rules to apply as to where to place the batter and any runners. Again, if the umpires put the batter on the wrong base, its protestable.
   98. Lowry Seasoning Salt Posted: April 09, 2021 at 09:12 PM (#6012634)
For example in Wrigley, if the ball gets stuck in the ivy its a dead ball and there are specific rules to apply as to where to place the batter and any runners.


The idea here often gets misstated by many because ground rules are stadium-specific. But we regularly see a ball one hop the outfield wall and reach the stands, whereupon announcers and friends and people at the bar say, "Ground-rule double" when, in fact, that's an automatic double. But, for example, a ball stuck in a certain part of the Wrigley ivy or hitting certain catwalks in the Rays' dome will be a ground-rule double.
   99. Hank Gillette Posted: April 09, 2021 at 11:12 PM (#6012654)

Bottom line, the game was better with less replay and a good occasional manager-umpire argument.

We differ here. I see no entertainment value (or any other value) in a grown man throwing a tantrum like a toddler. I would accept nearly any amount of replay delay to avoid ever seeing a manager kick dirt on an umpire again.
   100. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: April 10, 2021 at 10:02 AM (#6012666)
Since the rules state that a ball that hits a batter is a HBP if outside of the strike zone and not a HBP if a strike, the umpire HAS to determine ball v strike prior to calling a HBP. If I was the manager, the first thing I would have asked the umpire was whether the pitch was over the plate. If he said yes, then quote the rule about HBP. If the umpire says that it was not over the plate, then there is not much recourse.


The umpire already called it a strike. He punched out Conforto prior to awarding him 1B. Has anyone ever seen an umpire punch out a batter and then go "My bad. It was actually a ball."?
Page 1 of 2 pages  1 2 > 

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Dynasty League Baseball

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt!
for his generous support.

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogReport: Yankees' Cole, Gardner had altercation after clubhouse prank
(13 - 3:45pm, Oct 25)
Last: Walt Davis

NewsblogPerth Heat ‘heartbroken’ as Australian Baseball League cancels upcoming season
(5 - 3:16pm, Oct 25)
Last: Starring Bradley Scotchman as RMc

NewsblogOpinion: Atlanta Braves make unfortunate anti-vaccine statement with Travis Tritt as NLCS national anthem singer
(47 - 3:15pm, Oct 25)
Last: Tom Nawrocki

NewsblogMLB Just Tried a Bunch of Experimental Rules in the Minors. How Well Did They Work?
(53 - 3:06pm, Oct 25)
Last: The Gary DiSarcina Fan Club (JAHV)

NewsblogMets should be all-in on Brian Sabean, winning Giants executive, to run front office
(26 - 2:58pm, Oct 25)
Last: Mayor Blomberg

NewsblogWas This Red Sox Season a Sign of Things to Come, or Just a Surprising One-off?
(14 - 2:58pm, Oct 25)
Last: Darren

NewsblogAtlanta Braves back in World Series for first time since 1999 after upsetting Dodgers in NLCS
(23 - 2:55pm, Oct 25)
Last: McCoy

NewsblogCarlton Fisk kept it fair, but Keith Olbermann’s attempt to sell historic ball is foul
(48 - 2:52pm, Oct 25)
Last: Greg Pope

NewsblogDodgers Albert Pujols Hits the COVID-19 Injured List
(235 - 2:39pm, Oct 25)
Last: Mayor Blomberg

Sox TherapyWhat a Ride
(18 - 1:57pm, Oct 25)
Last: Darren

NewsblogOT Soccer Thread - Transfer! Kits! Other Stuff!
(477 - 1:49pm, Oct 25)
Last: Fancy Pants Handle struck out swinging

NewsblogNBA 2021-2022 Season Thread
(329 - 1:27pm, Oct 25)
Last: aberg

NewsblogRangers omit LGBTQ acknowledgment during MLB-wide Spirit Day initiative, frustrating advocates
(11 - 12:50pm, Oct 25)
Last: Eddo

NewsblogSt. Louis Cardinals to hire bench coach Oliver Marmol, 35, as next manager, sources say
(6 - 11:16am, Oct 25)
Last: My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo

NewsblogYankees GM Brian Cashman says club will 'address' shortstop and 'evaluate' catcher positions
(17 - 10:22pm, Oct 24)
Last: Nasty Nate

Page rendered in 0.5266 seconds
48 querie(s) executed