BBTF's Newsblog Discussion :: CSNwashington: Vinny Castilla admits entry into HOF will be ‘difficult’

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Saturday, December 10, 2011

CSNwashington: Vinny Castilla admits entry into HOF will be ‘difficult’

Former National Vinny Castilla is one of 27 players on this year’s Hall of Fame ballot, but in a recent interview, the Mexican third baseman admitted it is unlikely he’ll earn a permanent spot in Cooperstown.

“It will be very difficult [for me] to get elected,” Castilla said in a Spanish-language interview earlier this month. “But it is an honor just to be noticed, to be on the ballot. I am very proud of being an option for those who vote, that is an accomplishment for me.”

But then CSNwashington follows up with…“Hall of an argument”.

No, we’re not going to argue that Vinny Castilla should be a Hall of Famer. But the previous post does bring to mind how baseball stats can be deceiving.

Castilla’s career batting numbers of .276 average, 320 homers and 1,105 RBIs aren’t that different from those of newly elected Hall of Famer Ron Santo: .277, 342, 1,331. And Santo achieved his totals in about 400 more games.

Again, we’re not arguing for Castilla to get into the Hall. Different eras, different kinds of players.

Just sayin’.

Repoz Posted: December 10, 2011 at 05:04 PM | 47 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
Tags: hall of fame, history, nationals, sabermetrics

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1. puck Posted: December 10, 2011 at 05:24 PM (#4012512)

Stop laughing.

2. The District Attorney Posted: December 10, 2011 at 05:28 PM (#4012513)

REPOZ!

3. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: December 10, 2011 at 05:28 PM (#4012514)

No its shouldn't be. Just buy a ticket like everyone else.

4. bestergonomicgamingchair.com Posted: December 10, 2011 at 05:29 PM (#4012517)

Dammit, Snapper, you beat me to it.

5. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama

Posted: December 10, 2011 at 05:36 PM (#4012522)

Does anyone else hate the sayin' "Just sayin'"? It's a lazy way of trying to make an argument.

1105 RBIzzz are NOT "aren’t that different" than 1331.

And Santo and Castilla played in about as radically opposite environments that anyone can compare, at least in the last 90 years.

6. Robert in Manhattan Beach Posted: December 10, 2011 at 05:42 PM (#4012527)

He must be HOF worthy. Chipper moved to make room for him, not the other way around.

7. Baldrick Posted: December 10, 2011 at 05:43 PM (#4012528)

Does anyone else hate the sayin' "Just sayin'"? It's a lazy way of trying to make an argument.

1105 RBIzzz are NOT "aren’t that different" than 1331.

And Santo and Castilla played in about as radically opposite environments that anyone can compare, at least in the last 90 years.

But they ARE both carbon-based life forms.

Just sayin'.

8. TerpNats Posted: December 10, 2011 at 06:14 PM (#4012551)

Vinny Castilla will long be remembered in D.C. for his three extra-base hits on opening night at RFK in 2005, but frankly, he's the type of player who should feel honored merely being on the ballot.

9. Howie Menckel Posted: December 10, 2011 at 06:17 PM (#4012554)

Career adj OPS+
Santo 125, NL top 10s of 2 4 6 7
Castilla 95, no NL top 10s and best-ever were 127 and 115

just sayin'

10. The District Attorney Posted: December 10, 2011 at 06:20 PM (#4012556)

frankly, he's the type of player who should feel honored merely being on the ballot.

Hey, it ain't Castilla's fault some dweeb wrote this. He says that, right there.

it is an honor just to be noticed, to be on the ballot.

Just sayin'.

11. Xander Posted: December 10, 2011 at 06:23 PM (#4012558)

he's the type of player who should feel honored merely being on the ballot.

Which is what makes him being a dick about it that much worse. Let me quote from the quoted above:

“It will be very difficult [for me] to get elected,” Castilla said in a Spanish-language interview earlier this month. “But it is an honor just to be noticed, to be on the ballot. I am very proud of being an option for those who vote, that is an accomplishment for me.”

12. puck Posted: December 10, 2011 at 06:30 PM (#4012562)

but frankly, he's the type of player who should feel honored merely being on the ballot.

From the quote in the excerpt, it seems he does feel that way. I hope that's true. He had a great career, in the sense that I hope he feels happy about it. He wasn't a great player and didn't get a ring, but he had some strong seasons (great ones by traditional, unadjusted triple crown measures), made good dough, and he was and is loved by Rockies fans.

13. Greg K Posted: December 10, 2011 at 06:32 PM (#4012563)

Does anyone else hate the sayin' "Just sayin'"? It's a lazy way of trying to make an argument.

I think there's different kinds of "Just sayin'". In this case it's the "I'm not actually arguing this but I think this fact is interesting" technique.

I think it is most effective as a sarcastic end to a convincing (and usually stinging) rebuttal of someone else's claim. I had an English Lit prof who dropped that one all the time. It could be very entertaining at times (and sure motivated me to not be wrong around her).

14. smileyy Posted: December 10, 2011 at 06:33 PM (#4012565)

Vinny Castilla: .276/320/1105
Dante Bichette: .299/274/1141

Just sayin'.

15. PreservedFish Posted: December 10, 2011 at 06:49 PM (#4012574)

Does anyone else hate the sayin' "Just sayin'"? It's a lazy way of trying to make an argument.

Yes. A high percentage of blog posts that are linked here have some sort of disclaimer that basically invalidates the entire argument. It must be difficult to produce fresh material if you limit yourself to the world of ideas that are not nonsensical.

Greg's right that this isn't one of those cases. But it's also not a biting sarcastic technique. It's just an observation that is barely worth a BTF post, let alone its own blog entry.

16. LionoftheSenate Posted: December 10, 2011 at 06:51 PM (#4012577)

Just sayin' is not just a lazy way to make an argument, but you are asking for a beating using that phrase, esp if delivered with a smarmy smirk which it usually is.

17. Greg K Posted: December 10, 2011 at 06:56 PM (#4012580)

I will say my favourie part of Hall of Fame ballots coming out is to discuss and remember the guys who won't be getting any votes. I guess it's because the guys who are actually good enough to be considered aren't the kind of guy you forget about and need reminding.

I'm always much more interested in a retrospective of Danny Graves, Joe Randa, and Rick Helling than I am of...I guess Bernie Williams is the best new guy this year? I'd say Brad Radke too, but despite having quite a good career I think he's also fallen off the radar a little bit and would make for a memorable nostalgia target.

18. Greg K Posted: December 10, 2011 at 06:57 PM (#4012582)

Just sayin' is not just a lazy way to make an argument, but you are asking for a beating using that phrase

You're cruisin' for a bruisin' with that use of "asking for a beating".

19. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: December 10, 2011 at 07:01 PM (#4012585)

Just buy a ticket like everyone else.

I strongly recommend the annual membership. It's a very good deal even if you don't go back.

"Just sayin'" really only bothers me when it's not at all clear what the person is trying to "just say." IOW, about 95% of the time.

20. eric Posted: December 10, 2011 at 07:28 PM (#4012605)

Vinny Castilla's highest single-season OPS+ when he played for a team other than the Rockies: 97. So I guess park-illusion aside, he really did do a bit better in Coors.

21. mex4173 Posted: December 10, 2011 at 07:33 PM (#4012615)

Joe Randa

22. Esoteric Posted: December 10, 2011 at 07:40 PM (#4012619)

Which is what makes him being a dick about it that much worse.

I don't get it. The quote you cite makes it quite clear that he's NOT being a dick about it. He is, in fact, adopting exactly the right attitude: "it ain't gonna happen, but it's an honor to be on the ballot."

What's the problem here?

23. Greg K Posted: December 10, 2011 at 07:41 PM (#4012622)

What's the problem here?

I suspect the problem is a broken sarcasm detector.

24. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: December 10, 2011 at 07:46 PM (#4012624)

You're cruisin' for a bruisin' with that use of "asking for a beating".

Hey man, you're anglin' for a manglin' with that attitude.

25. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: December 10, 2011 at 07:51 PM (#4012630)

Its a ridiculous argument, but I must admit, the "300 HR, 1000 RBI" club for third basemen is much more exclusive than I thought it would be, although it skews towards modern players.

For fun, can you guess the 14 third basemen (50% of their games at 3B, per BBRef) with 300 HR, 1000 RBI? (Hint - five began their career after 1990).

26. Zach Posted: December 10, 2011 at 07:59 PM (#4012636)

I'll always remember him. I was probably about 10 years old and got a Joe Randa "hot prospect" type card in a pack. For a long time I always felt a little cheated that he didn't become a big star. More recently I discovered he did have a nice little career.

I liked him a lot when he was in Kansas City. For me, he was almost the definition of a quality player -- or maybe a step down, a "nice little" player. 12 years as a third baseman, .284/.339/.426, lifetime OPS+ of 96 with a high of 111 and a low of 77.

27. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: December 10, 2011 at 08:09 PM (#4012642)

For fun, can you guess the 14 third basemen (50% of their games at 3B, per BBRef) with 300 HR, 1000 RBI? (Hint - five began their career after 1990).

Schmidt
Mathews
Brett
Santo
Jones
Castilla
Williams
Nettles
Glaus
Ventura
Cey
Ramirez
Wallach
Rodriguez

28. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: December 10, 2011 at 08:11 PM (#4012646)

I don't think Arod is at 50 percent yet. Sub Rolen for him.

And I don't believe Wallach had enough HR.

29. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: December 10, 2011 at 08:19 PM (#4012650)

Ventura missed by 6 HR. I didn't realize Rolen had 300 HR.

Ventura 294 HR 1182 RBI - He's out.

Glaus 320 HR 950 RBI - He's out.

Rolen 308 HR 1248 RBI - He's in.

Beltre 310 HR 1113 RBI - He's in.

30. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: December 10, 2011 at 08:23 PM (#4012655)

Schmidt - YES
Mathews - YES
Brett - YES
Santo - YES
Jones - YES
Castilla - YES
Williams - YES
Nettles - YES
Glaus - NO
Ventura - NO
Cey - YES
Ramirez - YES
Wallach - NO
Rodriguez - NOT ELIGIBLE

Rolen - YES
Beltre - YES

Two more. One was a Rule 5 Draft pick, the other had a career OBA of .308.

31. Matheny Hitting School and Investment Strategies Posted: December 10, 2011 at 08:24 PM (#4012656)

Schmidt
Mathews
Santo
Castilla
Nettles
Chipper
Glaus
Aramis
Vinny
D Allen
Ventura
Rolen
Da Evans
Ma Williams

I'm sure my list isn't right, but I know that Darrell Evans is actually a correct answer.

32. MC Skat Kat kann es eigentlich kaum erwarten Posted: December 10, 2011 at 08:24 PM (#4012657)

Castilla is just concerned that the entrance to the building isn't ADA compliant.

33. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: December 10, 2011 at 08:26 PM (#4012661)

One was a Rule 5 Draft pick,

I had no idea he was acquired that way.

34. PreservedFish Posted: December 10, 2011 at 08:28 PM (#4012664)

the other had a career OBA of .308.

Tony Batista didn't hit that many homeruns, did he?

35. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: December 10, 2011 at 08:29 PM (#4012665)

Gary Gaetti is the last one. That OBA gave it away.

36. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: December 10, 2011 at 08:35 PM (#4012670)

Evans and Gaetti are right.

Dick Allen played more games at 1B than 3B otherwise he'd be on the list too

37. DanG Posted: December 10, 2011 at 10:28 PM (#4012755)

“But it is an honor just to be noticed, to be on the ballot. I am very proud of being an option for those who vote, that is an accomplishment for me.”

It sounds like Vinny is taking his nomination in exactly the right spirit. It IS an honor to be on the HOF ballot; only 7% of retired major leaguers make it (looking at recent years).

Of course, the writers can't even get that right. They overlooked Edgardo Alfonzo, who was a better player than most of the new candidates. But they made sure to get The Immortal Tony Womack and his 1.2 career WAR total on the ballot.

2012 Potential Hall of Fame Ballot

38. covelli chris p Posted: December 10, 2011 at 10:40 PM (#4012765)

he could get in. he'd need to have a a hall of fame coaching career ...

39. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: December 10, 2011 at 10:41 PM (#4012766)

Of course, the writers can't even get that right. They overlooked Edgardo Alfonzo, who was a better player than most of the new candidates.

Sigh. I don't get why they don't just put every first time eligible player on the ballot. There aren't that many guys who make it 10 years.

40. DanG Posted: December 10, 2011 at 11:02 PM (#4012774)

There aren't that many guys who make it 10 years.

About three dozen in a typical year.

41. Starring RMc as Bradley Scotchman Posted: December 10, 2011 at 11:36 PM (#4012793)

Mexican Baseball Hall of Fame, maybe. (Oh, and if they let in Juan Castro, I'm personally gonna burn the place down...)

42. Daunte Vicknabbit! Posted: December 11, 2011 at 01:03 AM (#4012867)

Is it weird that I permanently associate Joe Randa with Corey Koskie? I feel like their careers had a decent amount of overlap and I remember them as similar players, but I could be totally mistaken.

Always loved Vinny Castilla, a surprisingly skilled defender for a guy who hit like he did. If you just gave someone his batting line they'd probably assume he was a total butcher of the Soriano flavor.

43. something like a train wreck Posted: December 11, 2011 at 04:38 PM (#4013298)

I thought my dad was the only person who said "cruisin' for a bruisin'". We may be talking copyright infringement.

44. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: December 11, 2011 at 04:54 PM (#4013318)

Sigh. I don't get why they don't just put every first time eligible player on the ballot. There aren't that many guys who make it 10 years.

55 guys retired in 2006 with 10 years or more.

45. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: December 11, 2011 at 04:57 PM (#4013323)

About three dozen in a typical year.

60 in 2005, 55 in 2007, 54 in 2007. For some reason, BBREF has no data beyond 2007.

46. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: December 11, 2011 at 05:12 PM (#4013341)

There are people in Pittsburgh who are still upset about the Pirates not protecting Randa in the expansion draft.

47. Something Other Posted: December 12, 2011 at 09:16 AM (#4013830)

Does anyone else hate the sayin' "Just sayin'"? It's a lazy way of trying to make an argument.

1105 RBIzzz are NOT "aren’t that different" than 1331.

I find CAPITALIZING words for emphasis lazy and uncompelling. Give us an italicizing to chew on, or at least some bold-facing, you lazy bum.

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Saturday, December 10, 2011

CSNwashington: Vinny Castilla admits entry into HOF will be ‘difficult’

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