Signs with Cardinals and puts up an OPS+ of 130 next year while playing gold-glove caliber CF defense and winning the comeback player of the year award and some MVP votes?

What happened to Heyward? His offense collapses after signing with Chicago and never recovers. Power disappears. And yet he's in a ballpark where he should do ok vs the cavernous Busch which he had just exited.

Did he just lose interst after signing the big money contract ?

Gotta think someone out there believes they can fix him.

Did he just lose interst after signing the big money contract ?

No. Every account is that he worked hard, did what he was supposed to do, was a great teammate. .. he just got old quit. One theory I heard was that he had a slow bat that didn't age well.

He didn't hit for power in StL or his last year in Atlanta -- he hit for enough BA and had enough walks to post a good OBP and a tolerable SLG adding up to a solid performance for a RF. His ISO with the Cubs was 132, not far off the 146 in StL and 113 in Atl's final year. For 2017-20, he hit 260/341/411 ... for 2013-15, he hit 274/353/415. That's not a big difference and it's pretty much all a drop in BA. (2016 was quite horrible).

FYI, the multi-year PF for Busch was 100, the one-year was 99. For 2016 Wrigley, those numbers were 101 and 95. If anything, "cavernous" Busch would better suit Heyward's style at the time -- singles and doubles. Even Wrigley's cozy dimensions couldn't re-awaken his power.

Did he just lose interst after signing the big money contract ?

Why the #### would you ask this? Why would this seem a reasonable speculation to you?

FWIW, by all reports, Heyward was well-liked, respected, hard-working with the Cubs. His defense and baserunning never eased off. It's a thoroughly amicable parting of the ways. If anything, Heyward's problem throughout his career has been working too hard, regularly trying different swings, one year trying to cut down on Ks, the next trying to add power, etc. If you want to play armchair psychologist with Heyward, the notion that he put even more pressure on himself after the big deal did him in is more plausible.

Regardless of why or who might have been responsible, his swing was totally messed up when he got to the Cubs. It was like watching Ichiro bat except where Ichiro was incapable of hitting it anywhere but the pitcher or 2B. Or for a cross-sport analogy, by the time he got to the Cubs he was Dennis Rodman (without the misbehavior) -- good-excellent at defense and rebounding, couldn't shoot worth a damn. Every once in a while a competent MLB swing would re-surface but then disappear.

The cardinals just had the same issue with Matt carpenter. Of course, all the right things were said - great clubhouse guy, worked hard, teammates loved him. But the moment his contract ended he went out and started really rebuilding his swing. Why? So he could sign another big deal which he may very well get this offseason. No one ever accused Carp of being a slacker but it's clear that he didn't feel compelled to fix things while he was making $20 million a year even with Mgmt politely suggesting he do so.

Just because people say you are going through the motions correctly doesn't mean that person is invested in improving.

Shouldn’t a savvy team hire him as a coach in charge of making in-game speeches?

Duke, I think that is the first time anyone has ever accused Matt Carpenter of being lazy. If anything, he was prone to working himself to exhaustion. Every article I’ve ever seen talks about what a hard worker he was, how folks around him admired his work ethic and credited it for his success, etc.

Shouldn’t a savvy team hire him as a coach in charge of making in-game speeches?

His rain delay speeches would immediately get old while his bat would come back to life. The perfect crime.

I said at the time of the signing he was the Cubs next Alfonso Soriano and that hopefully the Cubs could do something before he turned into an albatross. Little did i know he would turn into an albatross his first year and the Cubs would win the WS.

On a Heyward thread a while ago there was discussion whether being beaned had a long term effect on his ability to hit.

To me, Heyward always seemed to have a goofy swing. It just seemed like his whole body wasn't working together to generate a powerful swing, and that his arms were somehow not connected correctly to the rest of the parts involved in the swing.

On a Heyward thread a while ago there was discussion whether being beaned had a long term effect on his ability to hit.

The 2013 beaning? Heyward followed that with two standard Heyward years in 2014-15, and then collapsed. Hard to see that causation.

Before he got to the Cubs he had settled into a certain level, a .275 hitter with enough walks and 10-15 homers. A useful offensive player to go with gold glove defense. There was the idea that sooner or later he’d add consistent power. Part of that is he had already shown flashes. 18 Hr as a 20 year old rookie, 27 HR at age 22. Part of it was how does a 6-5, 240 pound guy with decent hitting skills not hit for power?

I though he might have a Dwight Evans-type career arc. Just didn’t happen.

To me, Heyward always seemed to have a goofy swing. It just seemed like his whole body wasn't working together to generate a powerful swing, and that his arms were somehow not connected correctly to the rest of the parts involved in the swing.

Sounds like left-handed Frankenstanton.

he had a slow bat that didn't age well

Average fastball velocity has been trending up for years now.

Why the #### would you ask this?

Because he is a shitheel that you should put on ignore.

Heyward was a guy who could not get the right mix. He started out hitting a ton of ground balls but was kinda pre-shift so that worked until he didn't. Then he tried to retool his swing more than once but attacking pitches early in the zone didn't do much. Pulling more didn't do much. Hitting fly balls more often didn't do much. And he tried them all. Probably missed some of the things he did with his swing over time

Duke, I think that is the first time anyone has ever accused Matt Carpenter of being lazy. If anything, he was prone to working himself to exhaustion. Every article I’ve ever seen talks about what a hard worker he was, how folks around him admired his work ethic and credited it for his success, etc.

Yeah, but it helps shield him from accusations of bias.

I have no reason to believe Duke is right on either of his accusations, but do we really think players never slack off after getting the big deal? It would defy human nature to not think differently about the trade off between two extra hours in the batting cage vs. spending time with your wife and kids (or partying) after you've locked up more money than you can ever spend. I'm not saying they don't try their hardest on the field, but I bet average hours spend working on improving your game (especially in the off-season) declines after the final big deal has been inked.

I have no reason to believe Duke is right on either of his accusations, but do we really think players never slack off after getting the big deal?

Absolutely, but the two names he mentioned decidedly do not have that reputation. There is a reason why Cubs fans defended Heyward against those comments, even though he wasn't particularly good for the Cubs, because nobody thinks Heyward performance drop was anything other than talent drop. And nobody in St Louis is going to think Carpenter didn't give his all either. That just doesn't match up to their reputations. Considering how unsuccessful Heyward was in Chicago, you would think if there was any hint of his malingering, it would have been captured or implied by the press.

I don't remember any situation like Heyward's whereby before the current season is up the team tells the player he'll be released come the offseason despite time remaining on the contract and then the team holds a brief in-game ceremony honoring/thanking the player before the season ends.

I don't remember any situation like Heyward's whereby before the current season is up the team tells the player he'll be released come the offseason despite time remaining on the contract and then the team holds a brief in-game ceremony honoring/thanking the player before the season ends.

Me either - of course he was hurt then and unlikely to come this back during this season anyway - but if nothing else, it does speak to the franchise's opinion of him because they surely wouldn't honor a supposed malcontent.

There were a few highlights (3 linked in that story, and I can't really think of any others besides the occasional defense highlight), but I've always felt he got so much credit or accolades for the off field stuff *only* because his hitting was so ####### atrocious and everyone liked him so much (writers included). It was a bit disappointing some of the comments he made about not getting vaccinated (a little different than the typical anti-vax stuff), though I know everyone has differing thoughts on that so I'll just leave it there.

Absolutely, but the two names he mentioned decidedly do not have that reputation.

Fair, that's my impression of those two guys as well. I think it would be very hard, though, for anyone to really know if a player has decreased their off-season work, unless they show up fat.

[4] Why the #### would you ask this?
.....
[16] Because he is a shitheel that you should put on ignore.

Seconded, BLB.
I put Duke on ignore months ago, and it has helped both my enjoyment of the site and my blood pressure.

Apex people are not built like us. So while i doubt every moment of Jason's life was spent honing his craft i feel pretty confident in believing that he worked far harder at his craft over the life of this contract than i have ever at any point in my life.

To me, Heyward always seemed to have a goofy swing.

This. He always had a long swing. Instead of hands straight to the ball, his arms would extend fully. It was a long, and consequentially slow, swing. As noted above, he was trending down by the time he left Atlanta, somewhat masked by a BABIP fueled bounce in St Louis (the first season in Chicago looks worse due to an unfortunate BABIP season), but the next few years are pretty much in line with where he was heading.