Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Saturday, May 31, 2008

Dayton Daily News: Bruce ‘ain’t up here to paint’

“All I can say is I’m glad we won,” said [Jay] Bruce, who two years ago at Class A Dayton struggled to hit left-handers and this night hit two of them for four hits in five at-bats as the Reds beat the Braves 3-2 in 11 innings.

Bruce, who scored the winning run on a hard Brandon Phillips grounder to third that Atlanta’s Chipper Jones couldn’t stop, elevated his four-day-old batting average to .571 as he collected three singles, a double, knocked in a run and scored twice.
...
“He ain’t up here to paint,” Reds manager Dusty Baker said. “He’s up here to play. That’s why most guys that come up here I play right away, because they were hot (Bruce was hitting .364 in Class AAA Louisville). The first week you’re up here is one of the best times. (Teams) try to find your Kryptonite. Right now, he doesn’t have any.”

NTNgod Posted: May 31, 2008 at 05:52 AM | 49 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: braves, reds

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. Don August(us) Cesar Geronimo Berroa Posted: May 31, 2008 at 12:53 PM (#2801063)
BBBBRRRRRRRRRRRRR UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU CCCCCCCCCCCCCEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
   2. 100 Years is Nothing Posted: May 31, 2008 at 02:07 PM (#2801081)
Don;t worry, the dustbag will be his kryptonite. Just wait for that first o'fer, and watch how long he sits....
   3. Dolf Lucky Posted: May 31, 2008 at 02:14 PM (#2801084)
He already had an o-fer. Then he played the next day and went 4-for-5. Nice story, though.
   4. Milford Blatti Posted: May 31, 2008 at 03:49 PM (#2801112)
He stuck him right out there alright. He hit him third in the order in his third game. He's definitely not up to paint.
   5. Don August(us) Cesar Geronimo Berroa Posted: May 31, 2008 at 03:55 PM (#2801113)
C'mon everyone!

BBBBBBBBBRRRRRRRRRRRRR RRRRRRRRRUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU UUCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!
   6. BDC Posted: May 31, 2008 at 03:58 PM (#2801114)
Michaelangelo to Pope Julius: "I ain't up here to paint. No, wait ..."
   7. Don August(us) Cesar Geronimo Berroa Posted: May 31, 2008 at 03:59 PM (#2801116)
Sorry for the overexuberance. A .571/.684/.786 279 OPS+ line can do that to a person, even if it is just 4 games. The Boss has been ready for the majors since, oh, last June. It's about time we Cincinnatians get to see him
   8. Roy Hobbs of WIFFLE Ball Posted: May 31, 2008 at 04:30 PM (#2801132)
Ah, c'mon. Those are great lines by Dusty.


Exactly. The Dusty stuff is beyond old at this point. Dusty can't win. When he does the correct thing they just say "Just wait." Corey Patterson's down, Bruce is up. You have to bend over backwards to criticize the man this week.
   9. Damon Rutherford Posted: May 31, 2008 at 06:42 PM (#2801185)
Very, very premature, but I have a feeling all three OF for the Reds right now will someday be in the Hall of Fame. OK, so I hope they will. But it doesn't seem too unreasonable of an idea.

BRUCE!
   10. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: May 31, 2008 at 07:01 PM (#2801191)
The first week you’re up here is one of the best times. (Teams) try to find your Kryptonite. Right now, he doesn’t have any.”

Ted Cox says hi

and pardon me for being dense , but what does “He ain’t up here to paint” mean?

why "paint"?--does that mean house painting or beaux arts?

"he ain't up here to sing"

"he ain't up here to do molecular biology"

"he ain't up here to sell jeans"
   11. Damon Rutherford Posted: May 31, 2008 at 07:40 PM (#2801211)
Also, of course Bruce isn't there to paint. He's there to rake.
   12. Walt Davis Posted: May 31, 2008 at 10:01 PM (#2801374)
True, nothing to ding Dusty on yet (and yes the "just wait for his first 0-fer" comments are moronic hyperbole at any time) but notice what Dusty said (emphasis added):

That’s why most guys that come up here I play right away, because they were hot (Bruce was hitting .364 in Class AAA Louisville). The first week you’re up here is one of the best times.

The question is how patient will Dusty be when they find his kryptonite, when Bruce isn't hot, when he hits 150 for a month. Of course Dusty plays the guy while he's hitting 500.

Also, at the moment at least, even by Dusty's standards, the Reds don't have another viable CF option.
   13. Walt Davis Posted: May 31, 2008 at 10:05 PM (#2801384)
To elucidate, when Dusty started to come under some criticism for his handling of young players in Chicago, his response was always along the lines of "if they produce, I'll play them." He would often bring up examples of players who were good-great from the start (though his memory wasn't always great).

So Dusty has said he put Bruce in the lineup because he's hot and he's kept him in there a full week while he's been hot. Maybe Dusty has turned a new leaf but his treatment of Bruce so far and the quoted statements are perfectly consistent with his behavior in Chicago.
   14. Don August(us) Cesar Geronimo Berroa Posted: May 31, 2008 at 11:41 PM (#2801486)
BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC CCCCCCCCCCCEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nice time to hit your 1st homerun, Jay!
   15. Esoteric Posted: May 31, 2008 at 11:50 PM (#2801505)
#15 - Nothing iffey About Griffey:

F**k you. Seriously. There is nothing more loathsome on these sorts of boards than the one overenthusiastic 4-year-old who breaks the margins by posting a 100-character long word with no spaces. Absoluetly annoying as hell, and you should know better.

I'm as enamored of Jay Bruce as anyone...but I try to express it more maturely.
   16. Repoz Posted: June 01, 2008 at 12:30 AM (#2801575)
When FOX went to the live 600 look-in for Griffey...Thumb Brennnnerman said something along the lines of, "Griffey is the kid of guy that would just as soon get a base hit here to help the team win than hit a HR"

It was the 8th inning, Reds down 8-7, one out, man (well, not actually a man...it was Jay Bruce Wayne) on first...I think Griffey would have liked to hit a bomb there.
   17. Damon Rutherford Posted: June 01, 2008 at 03:04 AM (#2801855)
And rake he shall! However, I thought it was a custom in MLB to ignore a fellow's first career HR? I think that trumps a walk-off celebration, and ignoring him at the end of the game would have been fantastic. Cruel, but fantastic.
   18. Daryn Posted: June 01, 2008 at 03:16 AM (#2801860)
When they ignored Youkilis' first homerun he gave everyone an "air" high five. It was hilarious. Ignoring a walk off would have been the highlight of the year.
   19. 6 - 4 - 3 Posted: June 01, 2008 at 03:30 AM (#2801867)
Re: #15

He should have his children should have their keyboard taken away.
   20. Dock Ellis Posted: June 01, 2008 at 03:40 AM (#2801869)
I think the alliteration had something to do with the use of the word "paint."
   21. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: June 01, 2008 at 03:58 AM (#2801873)
The Braves are now 2-16 in one-run games this year? Wow.
   22. Damon Rutherford Posted: June 01, 2008 at 06:33 PM (#2802100)
Agreed, Daryn. Imagine Bruce throwing his helmet and then jumping up and down at home plate all by himself. Throw in a few muscle flexes and a bow, and he's guaranteed to kick of SportsCenter.
   23. We don't have dahlians at the Palace of Wisdom Posted: June 01, 2008 at 06:51 PM (#2802135)
How much longer do Bruce, Votto and Edmonds have to be in the starting lineup while Felix Pie and Matt Murton rot in Iowa before Cubs fans start to wonder if Dusty Baker may not have been the problem after all?
   24. Roy Hobbs of WIFFLE Ball Posted: June 01, 2008 at 06:54 PM (#2802145)
How much longer do Bruce, Votto and Edmonds have to be in the starting lineup while Felix Pie and Matt Murton rot in Iowa before Cubs fans start to wonder if Dusty Baker may not have been the problem after all?


Well, Pie is hitting .114 in Iowa. Otherwise, I agree with you.
   25. vortex of dissipation Posted: June 01, 2008 at 07:06 PM (#2802167)
and pardon me for being dense , but what does “He ain’t up here to paint” mean?


You get paint on your pants from sitting on the bench, and Bruce won't be sitting on the bench?
   26. Brandon in MO (Yunitility Infielder) Posted: June 01, 2008 at 08:34 PM (#2802324)
Considering the low number of walks drawn by Bruce in the Minors, I think Dusty will like him for a long time.
   27. cardsfanboy Posted: June 01, 2008 at 08:36 PM (#2802330)
On scales of first week in the majors, how does Bruces rank up there?

well I guess technically he has one more game to go for that.
   28. Fred Garvin is dead to Mug Posted: June 01, 2008 at 08:43 PM (#2802343)
Is there a lot of painting that needs to be done at GABP?
   29. Boots Day Posted: June 01, 2008 at 08:46 PM (#2802350)
How much longer do Bruce, Votto and Edmonds have to be in the starting lineup while Felix Pie and Matt Murton rot in Iowa before Cubs fans start to wonder if Dusty Baker may not have been the problem after all?

Eleventy billion years.
   30. Fred Garvin is dead to Mug Posted: June 01, 2008 at 08:51 PM (#2802354)
How much longer do Bruce, Votto and Edmonds have to be in the starting lineup while Felix Pie and Matt Murton rot in Iowa before Cubs fans start to wonder if Dusty Baker may not have been the problem after all?

I don't think any of us on BTF think Dusty was the problem, but he was most definitely a problem.
   31. Kyle S Posted: June 01, 2008 at 08:51 PM (#2802355)
Bruce was the top-scoring position player in my fantasy league this week. That's a pretty good debut.
   32. Kyle S Posted: June 01, 2008 at 08:54 PM (#2802357)
He also has the third highest weekly total of any player yet- only Soriano and Berkman have had better weeks. What an unbelievable way to start a career. And to think, some thought me foolish for paying 8 bucks for him in our auction. Suckers.
   33. Roy Hobbs of WIFFLE Ball Posted: June 01, 2008 at 09:03 PM (#2802363)
I don't think any of us on BTF think Dusty was the problem


Any of us?
   34. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: June 01, 2008 at 09:05 PM (#2802367)
My freshman year in college, I went out and had way too many the night before a doubleheader. I got the start, extraordinarily hungover, and preceded to strike out at a ball above my head. After the inning, I told my coach I was feeling sick, and he removed me from the game. Between games of the doubleheader, he asked me if I had been drinking the night before, and I admitted I had. As punishment, I was suspended for our weekend home DH and I had to spend the hours leading up to the game painting the dugouts at our relatively new field.

So, unlike Bruce, I really was up there to paint.
   35. greenback used to say live and let live Posted: June 01, 2008 at 09:08 PM (#2802371)
I don't think any of us on BTF think Dusty was the problem, but he was most definitely a problem.

Dusty's biggest problem is that he had a better grasp of the talent of Choi, Dubois et al than BTF did.
   36. Fred Garvin is dead to Mug Posted: June 01, 2008 at 10:00 PM (#2802420)
Any of us?

Well, I meant the main folks who hang out in game chatters or the Gonfalon Cubs section.
   37. Gambling Rent Czar Posted: June 01, 2008 at 10:11 PM (#2802422)
I don't think any of us on BTF think Dusty was the problem, but he was most definitely a problem.

BS
   38. cardsfanboy Posted: June 01, 2008 at 10:29 PM (#2802434)
38. Gambling Rent, Posted: June 01, 2008 at 06:11 PM (#2802422)

I don't think any of us on BTF think Dusty was the problem, but he was most definitely a problem.

BS


not sure why you are calling bs, Dusty was a problem, the ownership was a problem, and then the fans insistence that their team was better than they really were allowed the ownership to ignore fatal flaws with the roster.

nobody said that Dusty was the only problem with the cubs.
   39. Gambling Rent Czar Posted: June 01, 2008 at 10:33 PM (#2802436)
Sorry, I am not going to sit back and let people try and re write the history books. Not with all the vehement hate that was put into these very threads about the guy.

no, not going to happen.
   40. Roy Hobbs of WIFFLE Ball Posted: June 01, 2008 at 10:57 PM (#2802447)
Dusty's biggest problem is that he had a better grasp of the talent of Choi, Dubois et al than BTF did.


You've definitely got a point there. Dusty did a number of things poorly in Chicago and they are fair game for criticism. Choi? Dud. DuBois? Bigger dud. I know some would say "Well, yeah, but based on what we knew at the time he handled them poorly." Maybe that's fair, but what if Dusty saw flaws in their many of us didn't? I was as big a proponent of Choi as anybody. I missed that call and so did a lot of other smart fans. Maybe Dusty, with all his years of experience, recognized he wasn't THAT good.

Cubs players 27 and under 2003:

Corey Patterson (23) - Played regularly when healthy
Aramis Ramirez (25) - Played regularly once acquired
Hee Seop Choi (24) - Played pretty regularly through All-Star break, gave way to Karros and Simon down the stretch, both of whom finished year with better numbers. Choi hit .218.
David Kelton (23) - Last MLB game 2004.
Bobby Hill (25) - Last MLB game 2005.

Kerry Wood (26) - Arguably relied on him too much.
Mark Prior (22) - Arguably relied on him too much.
Carlos Zambrano (22) - Threw more innings than Wood OR Prior
Kyle Farnsworth (27) - Led Cubs with 77 games pitched.
Juan Cruz (24) - ERA of 6.05 in 25 games.
Todd Wellemyer (24) - ERA of 6.51; didn't really emerge as good major league pitcher until this year, if he keeps it up.
Sergio Mitre (22) - 10-23, 5.36 ERA for career.
Phil Norton (27) - Who?
Felix Sanchez (21) - 1 2/3 career innings.

Cubs players 27 and under 2004:

Michael Barrett (27) - Everyday catcher.
Aramis Ramirez (26) - Everyday 3B.
Corey Patterson (24) - Everyday CF.
Jason DuBois (25) - Career .233 hitter, out of big leagues since 2005.
David Kelton (24) - Hit .245 in Iowa, 10 AB with Cubs.
Brendan Harris (23) - Five organizations in the past five years.

Kerry Wood (27) - Pitched when healthy.
Mark Prior (23) - Pitched when healthy.
Carlos Zambrano (23) - 16 wins.
Francis Beltran (24) - Career 5.86 ERA.
Jon Leicester (25) - Career 5.88 ERA.
Michael Wuertz (25) - 31 games, Dusty pitched him 75 the next year.
Ryan Dempster (27) - Injured.
Andy Pratt (24) - Threw three innings his entire career.

I would do '05 and '06, but I have to leave. At a glance, I don't think there's any condemning evidence of him holding back youngsters in those years either. Maybe he blew out Wood and Prior by overusing them. But Woody had already been Tommy John-ed by then. I'm sure Dusty didn't help either of them long-term, so that's a legit knock. But where are all the good young players that supposedly rot on Dusty's watch while he plays Neifi Perez at seven positions simultaneously? Sure, he played some shitty veterans. But, with hindsight 20/20 (or maybe, just maybe Dusty's foresight pretty decent), he played them over shitty prospects. The good young players he had, everyday and pitchers alike, played.

I think Dusty tried to play his best players without an age bias. Maybe he failed in that, but I really doubt he failed because of a pro-veteran agenda.
   41. cardsfanboy Posted: June 01, 2008 at 11:05 PM (#2802451)
Sorry, I am not going to sit back and let people try and re write the history books. Not with all the vehement hate that was put into these very threads about the guy.

no, not going to happen.


be clear then instead of throwing innuendo out there. You are telling us that there were people on these boards who felt the cubs crappiness was 100% Dusty Bakers fault? Seriously? I know you live in a simplified black and white world, but I can't think of anyone on these boards who felt Dusty was 100% responsible for the crappiness that was the cubs.
   42. Xander Posted: June 01, 2008 at 11:18 PM (#2802455)
The problem with those Cubs' teams was that nothing was ever anyone's fault.
   43. Gambling Rent Czar Posted: June 01, 2008 at 11:28 PM (#2802458)
I can't think of anyone on these boards who felt Dusty was 100% responsible for the crappiness that was the cubs.


feel free to put "blame" into a spread sheet.

Was there the occasional article on the players, sure.
Every once in a while the front office received a lashing my the Maridiot's.
Later in Dusty's tenure, the training staff took a little heat

but make no bones about it.

Dusty got 99% of the hate.
Still does.
   44. Esoteric Posted: June 01, 2008 at 11:50 PM (#2802472)
Gambling Rent is 100% right about this, and anybody who claims otherwise is trying to rewrite history, either because of sinister motives (wanting to whitewash the record) or out of a faulty memory. It was always, always, always, ALWAYS Dusty's fault. When the players failed, it was because Dusty was playing "Dusty's Guys." Whenever he would make a statement to the media, it was "Dustbag" this, and [insert imprecation here] that. The hatred was irrational, unstoppable, and unabating. Don't insult my intelligence by disingenuously claiming that BBTF collectively only rated him as "part" of the problem. Maybe so - I can't read minds - but when it came time to make snarky comments he was 95% of the problem.

Note that I still don't think Dusty is/was a particularly great manager. And I think that he did deserve a lot of the blame for the Cubs' nosedive. But he was getting it with both barrels here from nearly everyone, nonstop, back then and even now.
   45. cardsfanboy Posted: June 02, 2008 at 12:22 AM (#2802507)
I agree that Dusty got blamed, but the blame was going around all over the place. I know plenty of posts were blaming the fans and the Tribune company because the fans were accepting of the mediocrity. It was never one blame directed at one person.

Do many people felt Dusty was the biggest blame? of course he was, but the ownership got plenty of flack also.
   46. Darren Posted: June 02, 2008 at 12:43 AM (#2802547)
BBBBBRRRRRUUUUCCCCEEEE! I just wanted to make Iffy Griffey feel like he's not alone.
   47. Fred Garvin is dead to Mug Posted: June 02, 2008 at 01:24 AM (#2802621)
Dusty got 99% of the hate.
Still does.


I'm not going to disguise the fact that he, more than anyone else in the organization, frustrated me to the point that I decided to start following a second team. (On the bright side, my two favorite teams now have the best record in MLB!)

Still, hate is different than blame. There are many things for which Dusty deserves blame -- his mishandling of Prior; his endless apologies for bad baseball and/or bad behavior; his irrational fondness for stiffs like Lenny Harris, Jose Macias, et al.; "walks clog the bases"; his mishandling of Hee Seop Choi; and many others.

Even I won't say he was the only problem they had, however. Jim Hendry was/is still a problem. The players themselves were a problem. The training staff has been a problem. Ownership was/is still a problem. The organizational philosophy and goals was/are still most definitely a problem. The fans have been a problem too.

Dusty embodied so many problems, though, that I was really, really happy the day he left.
   48. Roy Hobbs of WIFFLE Ball Posted: June 02, 2008 at 01:45 AM (#2802645)
Note that I still don't think Dusty is/was a particularly great manager. And I think that he did deserve a lot of the blame for the Cubs' nosedive. But he was getting it with both barrels here from nearly everyone, nonstop, back then and even now.


I could not agree with you more.

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Dynasty League Baseball

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Adam S
for his generous support.

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogNBA 2021-2022 Season Thread
(274 - 5:31pm, Oct 22)
Last: aberg

Sox TherapyThe Boston Red Sox Will Play for the Pennant
(192 - 5:28pm, Oct 22)
Last: pikepredator

NewsblogCarlton Fisk kept it fair, but Keith Olbermann’s attempt to sell historic ball is foul
(38 - 5:25pm, Oct 22)
Last: Mayor Blomberg

NewsblogOT Soccer Thread - Transfer! Kits! Other Stuff!
(459 - 5:14pm, Oct 22)
Last: AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale

NewsblogThe fans' way at Fenway: loud, louder, loudest
(55 - 5:03pm, Oct 22)
Last: SoSH U at work

NewsblogYankees GM Brian Cashman says club will 'address' shortstop and 'evaluate' catcher positions
(12 - 3:53pm, Oct 22)
Last: The Yankee Clapper

NewsblogPrimer Dugout (and link of the day) 10-22-2021
(4 - 3:43pm, Oct 22)
Last: Tom Nawrocki

Newsblog2021 LCS OMNICHATTER!
(595 - 2:06pm, Oct 22)
Last: Howie Menckel

NewsblogDodgers Albert Pujols Hits the COVID-19 Injured List
(223 - 12:28pm, Oct 22)
Last: 57i66135 is available to babysit, for a price

NewsblogIt’s time for the city of Chicago to repeal the Wrigley Field night game ordinance
(25 - 11:22am, Oct 22)
Last: BDC

NewsblogPrimer Dugout (and link of the day) 10-21-2021
(15 - 10:28am, Oct 22)
Last: SandyRiver

NewsblogNew MLB CBA should include amnesty clause
(18 - 8:22am, Oct 22)
Last: Joyful Calculus Instructor

NewsblogBaseball Games Are Still Too Long—and Getting Longer
(110 - 5:52am, Oct 22)
Last: McCoy

NewsblogMLB Just Tried a Bunch of Experimental Rules in the Minors. How Well Did They Work?
(8 - 11:41pm, Oct 21)
Last: Doug Jones threw harder than me

NewsblogWhere Mets may turn next as Sandy Alderson’s role in search comes into question
(2 - 8:36pm, Oct 21)
Last: Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb

Page rendered in 0.2963 seconds
48 querie(s) executed