User Comments, Suggestions, or Complaints | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertising
Page rendered in 0.9666 seconds
48 querie(s) executed
| ||||||||
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Discussion
| ||||||||
Baseball Primer Newsblog — The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand Saturday, January 21, 2012Deal revived, Rockies acquire 2B Marco Scutaro from Red SoxIl Milione Man March heads west…
|
Login to submit news.
You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks. Hot TopicsNewsblog: WEEKEND OMNICHATTER for May 20-22, 2022
(35 - 5:13pm, May 21) Last: Captain Joe Bivens, Pointless and Wonderful Sox Therapy: One Step Forward (16 - 4:59pm, May 21) Last: Captain Joe Bivens, Pointless and Wonderful Newsblog: OT Soccer Thread - Crowning Champions and Pro-Rel (130 - 4:56pm, May 21) Last: AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Newsblog: 2022 NBA Playoffs thread (1691 - 4:42pm, May 21) Last: rr would lock Shaq's a$$ up Newsblog: Roger Angell, Who Wrote About Baseball With Passion, Dies at 101 (40 - 3:44pm, May 21) Last: Gold Star - just Gold Star Newsblog: Juan Soto trade rumors: Nationals may be 'motivated' to trade outfielder (50 - 1:52pm, May 21) Last: The Yankee Clapper Newsblog: Zach Davies’ estranged wife says MLB pitcher ghosted her for a year (56 - 12:32pm, May 21) Last: base ball chick Newsblog: New York Mets' Max Scherzer out 6-8 weeks with oblique strain (16 - 12:25pm, May 21) Last: nick swisher hygiene Newsblog: Sports Venues Create Quiet Refuge for Fans with Sensory Needs (2 - 7:23pm, May 20) Last: AndrewJ Newsblog: Sports teams love crypto. What happens when their sponsor strikes out? (8 - 6:50pm, May 20) Last: Tom Nawrocki Newsblog: Former Giants fan-favorite infielder Joe Panik retires from MLB (6 - 6:50pm, May 20) Last: Arch Stanton Newsblog: Chris Paddack’s medical red flag killed Mets-Padres deal (8 - 4:25pm, May 20) Last: Karl from NY Newsblog: MLB, Not the NBA, Needs Its Own Separate In-Season Tournament (12 - 12:00pm, May 20) Last: Buck Coats Newsblog: Cardinals To Promote Nolan Gorman, Matthew Liberatore; Tyler O’Neill to IL (7 - 11:38am, May 20) Last: JJ1986 Newsblog: Why aren’t the Oakland A’s trying harder to fill their stadium? (28 - 2:54am, May 20) Last: The Honorable Ardo |
|||||||
About Baseball Think Factory | Write for Us | Copyright © 1996-2021 Baseball Think Factory
User Comments, Suggestions, or Complaints | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertising
|
| Page rendered in 0.9666 seconds |
Reader Comments and Retorts
Go to end of page
Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.
1. Jose is Absurdly Correct but not Helpful Posted: January 21, 2012 at 06:44 PM (#4042034)Does Boston have a shortstop? Are they dumping salary on the Rockies?
That's what I want to know. I don't like the idea of Punto or Aviles playing there every day, and Iglesias isn't ready. I'd expect there to be another move (or two) as I don't see any viable internal options.
The Red Sox had exercised the $6 million option they held on Scutaro's contract for the 2012 season, in what Red Sox general manager Ben Cherington termed a "significant acquisition" just two days ago. But with the Red Sox still looking to improve their starting pitching depth, and Carl Crawford's wrist surgery leaving them thin in the outfield, the decision was made to move Scutaro.
So... The solution to having a lack of depth in pitching and the outfield is to open a black hole offensively at shortstop in exchange for a pitcher who had an ERA+ of 63 heading into last year? As a Yankee fan, I like this trade.
Scutaro should do better than what the Rockies had (half season of Ellis plus junk), and even a decrepit Blake will improve on the horror show of last year's collection of 3rd basemen. But Cuddyer is not a huge upgrade on Seth Smith, Hernandez won't improve on Iannetta. The bench is still weak with a bunch of AAA players trying to show they can hit in the majors.
I guess none of the old guys are blocking anyone, so it's not so bad. But if they're expecting a playoff team, I don't think this is gonna do it.
Then I saw what team he had gone to.
Funny how the mere existence of Troy Tulowitzki can fundamentally change a man's identity.
He does sort of have a shortstop's build.
They have Jed Low... er, no.
I believe the reasons are "anything can happen in 20 PA."
But hopefully this is a prelude to acquiring Hanley.
So... The solution to having a lack of depth in pitching and the outfield is to open a black hole offensively at shortstop in exchange for a pitcher who had an ERA+ of 63 heading into last year? As a Yankee fan, I like this trade.
Concur.
It's a pure salary dump. Mortensen has a 1:1 BB:K ratio in the bigs. He's worthless.
I got ridiculed here for suggesting that the Red Sox are punting on 2012...at the very least, they seem to be holding serve until next offseason.
Sure as hell looks like it.
Unless this is to make Iglasias the starting SS in a sink-or-swim move, I'm baffled by this. Just baffled... And I'm not convinced Oswalt won't get roughed up a bit moving to the AL East. I'm really hoping this is a precursor to a Hanley move.
Player B PO Age BA OBP SLG G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS OPS+ DEFENSE
Marco Scutaro R SS 36 .277 .339 .390 123 477 65 132 28 1 8 51 45 53 6 3 93 AV/85
Mike Aviles R SS 31 .273 .301 .417 115 422 52 115 23 4 10 49 17 62 12 6 88 AV/103
Jed Lowrie B SS 28 .252 .316 .406 86 286 34 72 19 2 7 38 28 57 1 1 89 FR/108
If it's just Scutaro to Aviles, that's not a huge downgrade. Aviles looks perfectly cromulent -- looks like they can spend $6 million more effectively elsewhere.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that an Aviles/Punto platoon is not going to win you any WS.
Gut feeling: Blech.
What sucks, to be clear, is that this move is very strong evidence that the Sox have a set salary limit that Cherington has to work around. I would have hoped he'd have a little wiggle room.
I agree with the previous point. Scutaro seemed to have good ABs when it meant the most, particularly late and close. Since Bill Mueller, I don't remember the Sox putting a guy on the field that was guaranteed to hit a single every time the Yankees desperately needed an out.
Didn't Scoot hit a big HR against Rivera as an A?
No, not a pure salary dump - he adds to the pitching depth which everyone knows that the Sox need. I don't really know why the original poster quoted his ERA+ heading into last year. That 36 innings is an even smaller sample size than the 58 innings he had last year with a 117 ERA+.
I have no idea what the Sox are doing at SS...
If it's true that a hard salary limit is the problem, then what was the boon that allowed Lucchino et al to spend more than usual for 2011?
Cherington is biting the bullet for Theo's mistakes. You can't miss on two big contracts in consecutive years without repercussions. The edict is surely, "Reset the luxury tax now so we don't get hit hard when it goes up to 40%." There's no point in going marginally over the limit this season if it's going to significantly handcuff you in the future.
This is a fair point. I knew when I wrote my post that it was a little misleading. On the other hand, Clayton has a career minor league ERA of 4.87 (including 5.26 in triple A ball) and even last year in his 58.1 good major league innings he only struck out 4.6 batters per nine innings while walking 3.7 batters per nine innings. So while 36.2 innings is clearly not a big enough sample size to draw conclusions, I thought that it got across my general point that Clayton's track record is really, really bad without writing enough words to compromise my snarky reaction to the trade.
The downgrade from Scutaro to a Punto/Aviles platoon is 1-2 wins. If they're costing themselves 1-2 wins now to save $7M in the future, that's a bad tradeoff. The only way it makes sense is if the Sox plan to significantly exceed the luxury tax limit, by at least 3x what they've exceeded it in the past.
PLAYER WAR PA WAR/600PA
Punto 7.6 1271 3.59
Scutaro 12.7 2412 3.16
2008: 140 IP, 4.96 ERA, 105/64 K/BB
2009: 137 IP, 4.39 ERA, 100/48 K/BB
2010: 165 IP, 4.25 ERA, 112/53 K/BB
2011: 64 IP, 9.42 ERA, 54/29 K/BB
Mortensen's a waste of a 40-man roster spot.
hahaha you've been writing this every year for 8 years
FSG hadn't sunk $150MM into a dazzling array of mediocrity to adorn Liverpool FC yet.
Punto had about twenty different injuries last year starting from the first week or two of spring training. He's a nice, little ballplayer, who apparently is popular in the clubhouse because he rips off teammates' shirts, but I wouldn't count on him staying healthy.
If the Sod are coming close to hitting their budget, then the really tough call was Ortiz. They probably could have gotten a much cheaper dh.
Generally though there is more doom and gloom than this warrants. Maybe I'm wrong but I'll be shocked if the Sox don't announce another move in the next 48 hours. I feel like I can't evaluate this until that happens.
I haven't looked in the mechanics of the new cba via a vis Boston and the tax yet but - wasn't the CW that this is their reset year?
That said, this is still an awful trade. Scutaro has surplus value at his salary, and they dealt him for squat. At least go get a high upside lottery ticket arm in A-ball.
I think they realized (rightly) that Ortiz's value is just as much about marketing as it is performance. A lot of the team's identity would go away if he weren't back.
Morosi is tweeting that the Sox are "intensifying" their chase for Oswalt (MLBTR). I suspect that the Sox acted quickly to make sure they could strike quickly if they could get Oswalt to agree.
I get to be full of #### again if this happens.
That's some pretty poor planning, if so.
C Hernndez 36
1B Helton 38
2B Scutaro 36
3B Blake 38
RF Cuddyer 33
WTF are they thinking?
I don't know if this is their attempt to field a reasonable team this season without blocking Rosario (c) or Arenado (3b) or if they think they can win this season by doing this? The Cuddyer deal was the head-scratcher for me since $34 million is a lot of money for this team and he doesn't appear to be that large an upgrade.
They are all big on "changing the clubhouse culture," too. That's why Stewart, Iannetta and Smith are gone. They're ok w/losing, don't throw enough bats in the dugout, etc.
LF McDonald
CF Ellsbury
RF Sweeney
3B Youk
SS Punto
2B Pedroia
1B AGon
DH Ortiz
C Salty
Sox finish April 10-12, kiss sellout streak goodbye during A's series.
Yes.
Scutaro v. Rivera ended a nothing game, April 15 2007, but it was by far the wildest conclusion to a baseball game I've ever witnessed in person: Marco, then hitting .050, came to bat with two outs & two runners on, bottom of the ninth, A's down 4-2; he took a called strike, fouled one off, and then hit a long low drive off the left-field foul pole to win the game, 5-4. I was sitting down the 3b line, and I feel like I can remember the whole stadium holding its breath while the ball was in the air, and then EXPLODING as it rattled off that fair-territory fence stuff. Just amazing.
haha insane. The Sox are in a better position now than when Theo inherited the team.
1B Helton 38
2B Scutaro 36
3B Blake 38
RF Cuddyer 33
IF Giambi 41
They were 93-69 with a 100-62 pythag in 2002. He took over in 2003.
They were 90-72 in 2011 pythag was 94-68. Yeah they're better.
Weak man's position is always to insult.
This is a team with limited funds with large chunks of money tied to unproductive or aging/injury prone players - Lackey, Crawford, Ortiz, Youk, Beckett. Their biggest off-season move is to turn Bard into a staring pitcher. That would be great if he wasn't one of the worst starting pitchers in the minors a few years ago. Can they win 90-95 games? Sure. But I'd feel better if we had Manny and Pedro than Ortiz and Beckett.
man...both this place and SB are looking more and more like an ESPN thread.
I think most of that is based on defensive metrics. Scutaro has easily been the better hitter.
Didn't the Rockies have the famously Christian clubhouse just a couple years ago? That would seem to consist of the type of player who isn't a sore loser or throws tantrums.
Given that the Sox were willing to take nothing for Scutaro, and assuming that makes him easily tradeable, why would they have to deal him before picking up Oswalt? It's not like an overlap of a week or two would have cost them much at all. I suppose you might argue they could have gotten stuck with Scutaro, but that's a chance I think you take.
Don't you mean, it would consist of fabulously wealthy, fabulously self-absorbed young men who think that the entity that put the planets in their orbits prefers to meddle in ball games rather than send water and crumbs of food to stick-thin infants?
Just a thought.
God helps those who help themselves!
Shh...don't confuse the front office.
Hey! Did you just think of that, because that's really clever! You should take it to the NFL thread.
Yeah, a banana peel (Named Lackey, Crawford and Dice-K) that Theo threw.
Let's not give him too much credit here. He sandbagged the Sox with terrible contracts, then fled for the hills...
Wait, what? Are you actually suggesting Manny and Pedro in 2012 could be better then Ortiz and Beckett? Surely you aren't suggesting that?
I think going forward they have some excellent contracts that'll provide amazing value over the next few years. I for one cannot see Crawford being as bad as he was last year and at this point in time, as has been suggested by other posters, I'm willing to give the club a mulligan on this offseason with respect to the reliever to starter conversions. They obviously think it's somewhat viable and I assume they know more then we do. Hence, I'm typing this from my desk at work in IT and not from my desk whilst being employed by a major league ball club as an analyst.
Oh, I'm not hugely complaining about the long term prospects for the Sox. Per Cot's, the Sox in 14 look like:
Starter 2014 2015
Gonzalez,Adrian 1b $21.86 $21.86
Pedroia, Dustin 2b $10.25 $10.25
Iglesias, Jose ss $2.06
Youkilis, Kevin 3b $1.00
Saltalamacchia, c Arb 3 FA
Crawford, Carl lf $20.86 $21.11
Ellsbury,Jacoby cf Arb 3 FA
Kalish, Ryan of
Lavarnway, Ryan dh
potential bench
Tejeda, Oscar ss
Sweeney, Ryan cf Arb 3 FA
Punto, Nick 2b-ss $1.50 FA
Shoppach, Kelly c FA
Aviles, Mike inf Arb 2 Arb 3
SP
Lester, Jon lhp-s $11.63 $0.25
Buchholz, Clay rhp-s $5.75 $7.95
Bard, Daniel rhp Arb 2 Arb 3
Beckett, Josh rhp-s $17.00 $17.00
Lackey, John rhp-s $15.95 $15.95
Potential RP
Aceves, Alfredo rhp Arb 2 Arb 3
Bailey, Andrew rhp Arb 2 Arb 3
Atchison, Scott rhp Arb 1
Melancon, Mark rhp Arb 1 ? Arb 1/2
Doubront, Felix lhp
Bowden, Michael rhp
Albers, Matt rhp Arb 4 FA
Miller, Andrew lhp Arb 2 Arb 3
Morales, Frank lhp Arb 2 Arb 3
Tazawa, Junichi rhp Arb 1 Arb 2
payroll pre-arb $107.85 $94.36
That's a pretty nice team. The IF is locked up and the OF is OK if (Big if-I have lots less faith in CC's skill set than others-lifetime .773 OPS doesn't impress me much) Crawford comes back and Kalish produces. The Lester/Buch top of the rotation is fine and Beckett is a serviceable #3.If Bard makes the conversion and one of the Tazawa, Bowden etc... come through, the rotation isn't 1/2 bad.
Course, none of that does any good now. The Lackey signing was and remains a baffler, Dice-K at least gave the Sox something (Heartburn more than anything else) and Crawford has been, to put it kindly, a major disappointment and the cash being paid out is money that is needed elsewhere.
I'm not knocking Theo-he put together the team that has given me more joy than anything else in sports, but to say that he left as the team hit a banana peel is to downplay his part in the creation of said peel.
Theo signed two mega contracts that are hurting the teams short term financial flexibility and then left, leaving Ben holding the bag . That's as much a fact as his many successes.
I was disputing that they have hit a banana peel, not Theo's role in their current situation.
You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.
<< Back to main