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Friday, July 18, 2008

Did Manny tank an at bat?

“Manny was fined six figures to go to a charity,” Lobel said this morning on sports radio WEEI. “That got [Manny’s] attention ... he became a petulant child by being punished. No matter what the crime was, pushing an employee, that was the issue ... he acted out [after they fined him]. They got his attention. He doesn’t like to be punished in any way, shape, or form… “

Lobel’s strong words didn’t stop there. He went on to say that there was a perception that in a pinch-hit at bat at Yankee Stadium on July 6—more than a week after the incident with McCormick—Ramirez took three straight called strikes to send a message to the Sox.

“The thing that most people are forgetting and haven’t talked about is the strikeout in Yankee Stadium,” Lobel said. “The bat on the shoulder for the three pitches from Mariano Rivera. That was a big [expletive] to the Red Sox after the fine. I’m just telling you ... there are things in the front office that are perceived ... I’m saying that there is a strong feeling that that [three-pitch strikeout] was the message to the Red Sox and it’s a strong feeling that that’s unacceptable ... there’s a feeling that he didn’t give it his all, let’s put it that way ... I’m just saying the front office has not forgotten that moment. It’s akin to Nomar sitting on the bench [in a game in which Derek Jeter dove into the stands at Yankee Stadium in 2004]. It’s the same thing. It’s an at-bat that resonated very strongly in the front office.”

 

 

 

Is this the beginning of the end of Manny in Boston? Will Jessica love Chester’s alien twin brother? This and more on the next episode of Soap.

SteveM. Posted: July 18, 2008 at 04:20 PM | 148 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: red sox

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Page 2 of 2 pages  < 1 2
   101. The Ghost of Sox Fans Past Posted: July 18, 2008 at 11:53 PM (#2864223)
No way his option should be picked up for next year, even if this story isn't true.
   102. Marcel Posted: July 19, 2008 at 01:13 AM (#2864392)
That's because A-Rod is a highly talented player, who always manages to come off as a complete ######### - the slapping incident, the "mine" incident, the Toronto stripper incident, the Madonna incident, the "which team will I play for in the WBS" incident. I don't think there's anyone unwilling to admit that A-Rod is a great player, but he just seems to get himself in so many stupid situations, completely of his own making.


I can't believe I'm going to defend a Yankee...

- the slapping incident - ok. that was bullsh*t. you win that point
- the "mine" - I think it's hilarious that a major league baseball player can;t tell the diffence between the voice of a guy sprinting around the base and the voice of his SS. That was completely on whomever the fielder was.
- the stripper and madonna incidents - that is his personal life being dragged into the media. I won't defend his choices, but I will say that it's bullshit that his private life has to be smattered all over the front covers of newspapers and magazines.
- WBC - he came out and said he just wasn't going to play. the only reason we had to listen to that crap in the first place is because Selig is a ######### and pretty much told A-Rod he had to play.

Overall, I think most of A-Rods problems have come from trying to please everyone. He gives someone a quote that he thinks they want, and it winds up pissing someone else off and then it turns into s huge sh*tstorm. Notice how many fewer problems he seemed to have when he was in Seattle/Texas (minus the whole saying he's better than Jeter thing. which, of course, was totally true.)
   103. Marcel Posted: July 19, 2008 at 01:18 AM (#2864407)
And as for the original point of this post, the first pitch to Manny probably would have shattered his bat the way that he has been swinging lately. The next two were cutters that were right on the black of the plate, away. There is an almost zero chance that Manny could have anything with those, even as good of an opposite-field hitter that he is. I got in a massive fight with my uncle about this at-bat. He believed that Manny should have been swinging with two strikes no matter what Mo threw (then again, he also thought the first pitch was down the middle of the plate. I think he needs some glasses.) I, however, viewed that as a classic Manny at-bat. "I'm not going to swing at something I can' hit, even if it means striking out." I would much rather see that than the hacking he's been doing for much of this season.
   104. Esoteric Posted: July 19, 2008 at 01:22 AM (#2864416)
I have a pretty strong feeling that Manny did intentionally tank the at-bat. That's just my assessment of his character. Wouldn't go to court with that. But it's neither here nor there, really. Doesn't change his talent.
   105. Cooperstown Schtick Posted: July 19, 2008 at 01:27 AM (#2864420)
Ted Williams isn't likely the best Red Sox hitter, but he sure isn't looking up at Manny.
   106. RJ in TO Posted: July 19, 2008 at 01:28 AM (#2864422)
- the slapping incident - ok. that was bullsh*t. you win that point
- the "mine" - I think it's hilarious that a major league baseball player can;t tell the diffence between the voice of a guy sprinting around the base and the voice of his SS. That was completely on whomever the fielder was.
- the stripper and madonna incidents - that is his personal life being dragged into the media. I won't defend his choices, but I will say that it's ######## that his private life has to be smattered all over the front covers of newspapers and magazines.
- WBC - he came out and said he just wasn't going to play. the only reason we had to listen to that crap in the first place is because Selig is a ######### and pretty much told A-Rod he had to play.


But why does it always seem like it's him who these things happen to? I can't think of any other player (even among the total publicity hounds, or complete loons) who has so many silly little incidents like this on their record.

Overall, I think most of A-Rods problems have come from trying to please everyone.


Completely. And, unfortunately for him, everyone seems to include every manly woman he meets.
   107. Darren Posted: July 19, 2008 at 01:38 AM (#2864438)
Also, while that shove was obviously a really bad thing, it's also the only record I know of Manny being violent. He's always been a space cadet, but the shove was way out of character, and I don't think it should be seen as a typical Manny act.


This and his recent comments both seem quite out of character. It's my theory that Manny is drumming up bad publicity for himself on purpose. He wants no part of the Red Sox picking up that option, but he has no control over it. So he starts making a nuisance of himself and makes it seem like he'll be more trouble than he's worth. Then he's free to sign a multi-year deal with whoever he wants.

That's my theory. And I don't think he tanked an AB.
   108. Avoid Running At All Times- S. Paige Posted: July 19, 2008 at 01:43 AM (#2864454)
Ted Williams isn't likely the best Red Sox hitter, but he sure isn't looking up at Manny.

Who is a better Sox hitter than Ted Williams?
   109. Marcel Posted: July 19, 2008 at 01:48 AM (#2864457)
Ted Williams isn't likely the best Red Sox hitter, but he sure isn't looking up at Manny.

Who is a better Sox hitter than Ted Williams?


Nevermind Sox hitter, can you name any hitter other than Ruth and maybe Bonds that was better than Williams?
   110. Cooperstown Schtick Posted: July 19, 2008 at 01:56 AM (#2864464)
I feel comfortable taking the position that Ruth was a better hitter.
   111. vortex of dissipation Posted: July 19, 2008 at 01:58 AM (#2864467)
Has a star player ever left Boston on good terms, without retiring? I can't seem to remember one.


Warren Spahn?
   112. Marcel Posted: July 19, 2008 at 02:06 AM (#2864474)
Ruth only had two seasons in Boston where he had more than 300 ABs. He was very good in those two years, but I don't think two seasons are enough to annoint someone as the best hitter in the history of a franchise. Granted, as I stated above, Ruth was a superior hitter. Just not a superior Sox hitter.
   113. Randomly Fluctuating Defensive Metric Posted: July 19, 2008 at 02:43 AM (#2864552)
I haven’t read the thread, but there’s no way Manny tanked that AB. He was cheating on something inside and was just beaten by Rivera’s precise location, totally fooled, really. He was very hyped up in the dugout before that AB, and there’s no way, in my opinion, that he tanked it.
   114. Cooperstown Schtick Posted: July 19, 2008 at 02:49 AM (#2864559)
Not while he was with the Red Sox, he wasn't.

Are you saying that the Yankees had a whole bag of hitting skill waiting in Ruth's locker after they acquired him? He had the same skill set in Boston, it just wasn't utilized as well. In the same way that Mariano Rivera might be one of the Yankees' best centerfielders, Ruth was likely the best hitter the Red Sox ever had.
   115. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: July 19, 2008 at 02:56 AM (#2864567)
Are you saying that the Yankees had a whole bag of hitting skill waiting in Ruth's locker after they acquired him? He had the same skill set in Boston, it just wasn't utilized as well. In the same way that Mariano Rivera might be one of the Yankees' best centerfielders, Ruth was likely the best hitter the Red Sox ever had.


Well, that's an awfully slippery slope. Is Ryne Sandberg the greatest Phillies 2B or is it Nap Lajoie? Is Randy Johnson the greatest Expo pitcher?
   116. Avoid Running At All Times- S. Paige Posted: July 19, 2008 at 03:59 AM (#2864637)
Not while he was with the Red Sox, he wasn't.

Exactly
   117. BaseballObscura Posted: July 19, 2008 at 04:24 AM (#2864651)
Well, that's an awfully slippery slope. Is Ryne Sandberg the greatest Phillies 2B or is it Nap Lajoie? Is Randy Johnson the greatest Expo pitcher?


Well I don't think Ryne Sandberg has a case over Nap Lajoie in any case, and Randy vs. Pedro is an interesting discussion at the very least.
   118. Esoteric Posted: July 19, 2008 at 07:15 AM (#2864687)
Curt Schilling is the best Orioles pitcher of the last 30 years.

[/Cooperstown Shtick's silly schtick]
   119. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: July 19, 2008 at 11:14 AM (#2864703)
Last night's bellyflop, hog rolling in the mudpit sequence was quite the display.
   120. JC in DC Posted: July 19, 2008 at 12:22 PM (#2864711)
Yeah, he didn't "tank" that, either. I love how he "fell" onto the ball.

Stuff like that makes me appreciate Billy Martin.
   121. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: July 20, 2008 at 01:06 PM (#2865404)
i'd say Shea Hillenbrand left in bad terms.
   122. calhounite Posted: July 20, 2008 at 02:28 PM (#2865426)
if a conversation with a facsimile of the phrases below hasn't been laid on him..

"HELL NO...no more water bottles..damn sick of seeing your fat butt sittin at home plate on 400 ft singles.. happy hunting, freak, and good riddance"

then Ramirez has a legitimate beef
   123. A Random 8-Year-Old Eskimo Posted: July 20, 2008 at 03:14 PM (#2865439)
- the "mine" - I think it's hilarious that a major league baseball player can;t tell the diffence between the voice of a guy sprinting around the base and the voice of his SS. That was completely on whomever the fielder was.


It's somewhat less hilarious whe you realize the third baseman in question, Howie Clark, was recalled from the minors only a couple of days before and, IIRC, this was his first start since being recalled. You can think the play was bush league or you can think it was perfectly legitimate; people debated this here. However, claiming a newly recalled minor leaguer should recognize the voice of a guy he's not played with all season is not a strong defence.
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