Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Sunday, July 26, 2020

Dodgers’ Dave Roberts says Giants manager Gabe Kapler is engaging in ‘gamesmanship’ with lineup announcements

Kapler did not announce his starting pitcher (Logan Webb) for Saturday afternoon’s game against the Dodgers until 7:30 AM local time. He did not reveal his starting lineup until 90 minutes before first pitch, per Alex Pavlovic of NBC Sports Bay Area. In response, Dodgers manager Dave Roberts expressed some combination of amusement and annoyance.

“It’s a little bit of gamesmanship, we’ll call it,” Roberts told reporters, including SB Nation’s Eric Stephens, prior to Saturday’s game. “To each, their own.”

It should be noted that Kapler is under no obligation to release any of the above information ahead of time. In that sense, the only “rule” he’s violating is an unwritten one between managers and teams. It should also be noted that Kapler has contemplated the legitimacy and value of that unwritten rule before, as The Athletic’s Andrew Baggarly highlighted last week.

 

RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: July 26, 2020 at 10:13 PM | 14 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: dodgers, giants

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. Jose Needs an Absurd Ukulele Concert Posted: July 27, 2020 at 09:44 AM (#5965988)
The funny thing about this is that with teams carrying so few position players platooning has largely fallen out of fashion. This is one of those things where Kapler is technically right but to how much benefit? Pissing everyone off is one of those things that as often as not bites you back harder when it comes around.

Taking it to an absurd degree as befits my handle when does a team have to declare. When the coaches* get to home plate pregame are we going to have a situation where the coach goes up with a LHP and an RHIP lineup and tries to wait out the other coach? Is the umpire going to have to count to three and make both coaches hand in their lineups simultaneously? And of course now how long before “MLB as Sponsored by 1800Betting” requires a lineup 90 minutes in advance so fans can place their appropriate bets?

* do any managers actually do it? It seems like it’s always a coach.
   2. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: July 27, 2020 at 09:50 AM (#5965991)
The funny thing about this is that with teams carrying so few position players platooning has largely fallen out of fashion. This is one of those things where Kapler is technically right but to how much benefit? Pissing everyone off is one of those things that as often as not bites you back harder when it comes around.
technically correct is the best kind of correct.
   3. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: July 27, 2020 at 09:56 AM (#5965992)
And of course now how long before “MLB as Sponsored by 1800Betting” requires a lineup 90 minutes in advance so fans can place their appropriate bets?

Already done.
Major League Baseball has informed clubs that the protocols for releasing starting lineups, which were revised before last season, will remain in place for this year's 60-game season. Teams are required to submit their starting lineups to the league office before releasing them publicly. Once received, MLB will transmit the starting lineups to league partners, including domestic and international sportsbooks, via its official data feed.

In the U.S., MLB has partnerships with sportsbooks DraftKings, FanDuel, MGM Resorts and PointsBet, among others. Theoretically, those sportsbooks would receive the starting lineups first.

   4. SoSH U at work Posted: July 27, 2020 at 10:24 AM (#5966003)
I've never understood why this is an unwritten rule. Teams should have to simultaneously submit their starting pitchers x hours before game time, then simultaneously submit batting orders x-y hours before game time.
   5. JJ1986 Posted: July 27, 2020 at 10:33 AM (#5966008)
I think holding back the names of starting pitchers is not the best, but how early are lineups typically out? I would guess like 2-3 hours before first pitch, but no idea if that's right.
   6. Howie Menckel Posted: July 27, 2020 at 10:56 AM (#5966017)
how long before “MLB as Sponsored by 1800Betting” requires a lineup 90 minutes in advance so fans can place their appropriate bets?

the NBA regulates release of info on starting lineups and which players are too injured to play for exactly that reason.
   7. catomi01 Posted: July 27, 2020 at 04:09 PM (#5966143)
I think holding back the names of starting pitchers is not the best, but how early are lineups typically out? I would guess like 2-3 hours before first pitch, but no idea if that's right.


In my only direct experience in the Atlantic League, the managers usually posted it right at report time when BP would start - so typically it was up around 1 PM for a 7 PM start...I think our press box got a copy at the same time (which means they sent an intern down to copy it down on a napkin) to display it on a whiteboard outside the pressbox for scorekeeping, and for the radio broadcast. The other team usually got a copy then, but I don't think there was a formal procedure for that - each team always got a stat pack from the pressbox in the morning with highlights from around the league, and more in depth stats on the opponent (still very basic, but did have at least home/road numbers, l/r splits, etc.)

Getting the lineup out early was more about letting the players prepare accordingly (bench player getting a start, starter getting the night off, etc.)than giving notice to the other team.
   8. sunday silence (again) Posted: July 27, 2020 at 04:20 PM (#5966146)
what is the rule with starting pitchers: when does that have to be announced?

The article is poorly written. He mentions that Kapler is not violating any rule and then he neglects to mention what that rule is...
   9. bunyon Posted: July 27, 2020 at 04:38 PM (#5966158)
It seems obvious that, if Kapler's behavior bothers you, then you return it in kind to him. Roberts is under no requirement to play by the unwritten rule with people who don't observe the unwritten rule.
   10. The Honorable Ardo Posted: July 27, 2020 at 04:44 PM (#5966163)
Game theory suggests that if a lone defector breaks an established pattern of cooperation, you need to defect too. Publicly complaining about your opponent defecting (and doing nothing else) is a sub-optimal strategy.
   11. sunday silence (again) Posted: July 27, 2020 at 05:18 PM (#5966182)
Didnt a manager try to do this in the world series? Was it the 1961 WS.
   12. PreservedFish Posted: July 27, 2020 at 10:46 PM (#5966251)
#9,10:

The Giants suck, the Dodgers are terrific, so they're in an excellent place to take the high road and honor tradition. Nobody wants the tradition to immediately collapse into a state where all managers are submitting lineups and starting pitchers at the last possible second.

More importantly, there's no actual advantage here. "Hey Kike, you're starting if it's a lefty. Joc's starting if it's a righty." Big ####### deal. Kapler's trying to eke out an advantage so minuscule as to be nonexistent, because he's a scheming self-important weirdo, clearly at pains to justify his own eccentric genius.
   13. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: July 27, 2020 at 10:55 PM (#5966252)
Kapler's trying to eke out an advantage so minuscule as to be nonexistent, because he's a scheming self-important weirdo, clearly at pains to justify his own eccentric genius.
Textbook twerpery.
   14. Moses Taylor, glorified meat shield Posted: July 27, 2020 at 11:10 PM (#5966255)
He mentions that Kapler is not violating any rule and then he neglects to mention what that rule is...

Uh...

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Dynasty League Baseball

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Martin Hemner
for his generous support.

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogWild Card Round Day Two OMNICHATTER (9/30/20)
(241 - 3:01pm, Oct 01)
Last: Red Voodooin

NewsblogMinnesota Twins eliminated by Houston Astros as postseason losing streak hits 18 games
(6 - 2:34pm, Oct 01)
Last: jacksone (AKA It's OK...)

NewsblogMLB allowing limited number of fans for NLCS, World Series in Arlington, Texas
(14 - 2:30pm, Oct 01)
Last: Captain Joe Bivens, Elderly Northeastern Jew

NewsblogEmpty Stadium Sports Will Be Really Weird
(9809 - 2:16pm, Oct 01)
Last: Lassus

NewsblogOT - NBA Bubble Thread
(3297 - 2:01pm, Oct 01)
Last: aberg

NewsblogOT - Soccer Thread - Brave New World
(273 - 1:46pm, Oct 01)
Last: Mefisto

NewsblogCarlos Correa addresses Astros haters after sweeping Twins: 'What are they going to say now?'
(15 - 1:41pm, Oct 01)
Last: Greg Pope

Gonfalon CubsCubs Postseason Thoughts
(6 - 1:19pm, Oct 01)
Last: Meatwad

NewsblogAnaheim City Council approves $150-million cash stadium sale to Angels owner
(15 - 1:07pm, Oct 01)
Last: Rally

NewsblogPrimer Dugout (and link of the day) 10-1-2020
(5 - 12:43pm, Oct 01)
Last: Crispix Attacksel Rios

NewsblogYouTube TV is losing Fox regional sports networks
(19 - 11:34am, Oct 01)
Last: jmurph

NewsblogAs Marlins prepare for postseason, is the franchise turning a corner under Derek Jeter?
(11 - 11:10am, Oct 01)
Last: Never Give an Inge (Dave)

NewsblogDORKTOWN: The Secret to Not Allowing Homers to Babe Ruth was Being Bad, Apparently
(7 - 10:52am, Oct 01)
Last: Nasty Nate

NewsblogBill James: A Galaxy of Royal Stars
(23 - 9:23am, Oct 01)
Last: RoyalsRetro (AG#1F)

NewsblogRemoving Fans Didn’t Remove MLB’s Home-Field Advantage
(7 - 8:46am, Oct 01)
Last: Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network)

Page rendered in 0.3231 seconds
48 querie(s) executed