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Wednesday, November 04, 2020

Dodgers’ Mookie Betts headlines Gold Glove winners with fifth straight

Last night we finally learned the winner….of the Gold Glove Awards!

“Unbelievable play by an unbelievable player in a big moment,” teammate Corey Seager said after that game. “That is what you need to win baseball games this time in the year.”

Betts was tied for third among all players with 11 defensive runs saved, tied with Byron Buxton and trailing only Nolan Arenado’s 15 and Joey Gallo’s 12. Arenado won his eighth consecutive Gold Glove at third base, matching all eight seasons he has played in the majors. Gallo is known for his prodigious home runs but earned his first Gold Glove after moving to right field on a full-time basis for the first time in his career.

 

RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: November 04, 2020 at 08:25 AM | 27 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: gold glove award

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   1. Walt Davis Posted: November 04, 2020 at 03:04 PM (#5987245)
Javy with his first. Lots of first-timers here including Joey "the Oaf" Gallo.
   2. Jose Is An Absurd Balladeer Posted: November 04, 2020 at 03:22 PM (#5987248)
As someone who didn't see a Ranger game all year was Gallo legitimately good out there?

Max Fried is yet another data point against my long held bit of stupidity. For some reason my brain thinks that all lefties pitchers do not field their position well. Logically I know how idiotic that is (hey Mr. Kaat) but my brain just says "oh lefty, he sucks."
   3. SoSH U at work Posted: November 04, 2020 at 03:23 PM (#5987250)
Max Fried is yet another data point against my long held bit of stupidity. For some reason my brain thinks that all lefties pitchers do not field their position well.


Buehrle being a more recent exception.
   4. Walt Davis Posted: November 04, 2020 at 03:38 PM (#5987255)
Most of the throws would be a bit more difficult for lefties -- seems you should bunt to the 1B side all day long. On the other hand, given the number of LH junkballers historically relying on weak contact, maybe it's more important they learn to field competently. Has anybody ever looked at pitcher fielding by handedness?

FWIW, statcast put Gallo at +3 runs/outs which was tops among AL RFs (3rd overall) so its ranking agrees with the other fancy stats. You could make a case for Clint Frazier based on rate but Gallo had more than twice the playing time out there ... and if he won, we'd just be asking Yankees fans if he really looked as good as the stats say. :-) Note both TZ and DRS give Gallo credit for saving 12 runs which is a lot different than 3.

So probably just a reminder that 60 games is a really small sample, especially for fielding stats. But all 3 stats consider Gallo at least average in the OF for his career. Last year (time missed to injury) he spent about 60% of his time in CF where they all agree he was average. In the corners, statcast puts him about average while the other two place him clearly above-average. Bear in mind that statcast is comparing to all OFs while the others compare to average at that position but the average OF appears to be about the average RF anyway.
   5. Howie Menckel Posted: November 04, 2020 at 03:39 PM (#5987256)
1940s Cardinals star southpaw Harry "The Cat" Brecheen (Bruh-KEEN) didn't get his nickname because he got a lot of... tail.
   6. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: November 04, 2020 at 04:14 PM (#5987273)
Ron Guidry, Bobby Shantz, Kenny Rogers, and Mark Langston are all lefties with 5+ Gold Glove awards (in addition to Kaat mentioned above). There's an equal number of righties and lefties in that category I believe.
   7. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: November 04, 2020 at 04:18 PM (#5987276)
1940s Cardinals star southpaw Harry "The Cat" Brecheen (Bruh-KEEN) didn't get his nickname because he got a lot of... tail.
Feline hoarder, I assume?
   8. Walt Davis Posted: November 04, 2020 at 04:18 PM (#5987277)
Pitcher fielding is extra hard to evaluate historically. TZ isn't calculated for pitchers (at least not at b-r, not even now) and Rfield is zeroed out for pitchers in WARpos since it should show up in RA9 in WARpit. DRS is available for more recent pitchers.

So that only leaves old school stats. FWIW, Brecheen had a league-average RF/9 but above-average FP (by 23 points) and seemed to hold runners well (does/should that count as pitcher fielding?) Kaat on the other hand, had a slightly below-average career FP but slightly above-average RF/9.

Now Maddux ... RF/9 of 3.13 vs lg average of 1.82; the FP was only 13 points above-average but that's a lot of extra plays. Of course pitcher RF/9 heavily affected by GB and K rates but that's still a huge difference. We have 6 years of DRS data for Maddux and they credit him for +25.

Doesn't seem to matter a lot unless you're Maddux. Kaat had about one assist per 6 innings pitched. There's also covering first but Kaat had only about 1 PO per 16 IP. Brecheen had a slightly better assist rate but a much lower PO rate. The high-K Scherzer has an assist only about 1 per 13 innings and a PO rate a bit better than 1 per 20. Maddux was just under an assist per 4 IP and had about 1 PO per 9 IP.

   9. The Gary DiSarcina Fan Club (JAHV) Posted: November 04, 2020 at 04:20 PM (#5987279)
Max Fried is yet another data point against my long held bit of stupidity. For some reason my brain thinks that all lefties pitchers do not field their position well. Logically I know how idiotic that is (hey Mr. Kaat) but my brain just says "oh lefty, he sucks."


Mark Langston won a bunch of Gold Gloves back in the early 90's. I haven't gone back to look and see if the numbers support the awards, but I seem to remember him being consistently praised as a good defender.

Griffin Canning won the Angels' first pitching Gold Glove since Langston. I can't say that I found Canning's fielding to be remarkable, but I'll take what I can get in terms of good Angels news.
   10. SoSH U at work Posted: November 04, 2020 at 04:40 PM (#5987289)
(does/should that count as pitcher fielding?)


I don't about the former, but as to the latter, absolutely. It doesn't count as pitcher pitching, so it had better count as pitcher fielding.
   11. chisoxcollector Posted: November 04, 2020 at 05:09 PM (#5987297)
I'm very happy to see Luis Robert win. He is pretty great out there.
   12. Sweatpants Posted: November 04, 2020 at 05:10 PM (#5987298)
Wasn't there some article posted/mentioned here a while back that concluded that the best-fielding pitcher (don't remember if it was all-time or just among active pitchers) was lefty Kirk Rueter?
   13. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: November 04, 2020 at 05:33 PM (#5987305)
I thought Luis Robert only played a partial season (part of a partial season), but it says he played 56 out of 60 games. Guess it was the announcers always saying "Look at this guy, just debuted in the last week of July and he's hit the ground running, already such a pro!" Well the entire White Sox roster debuted in the last week of July.
   14. Howie Menckel Posted: November 04, 2020 at 08:38 PM (#5987321)
Rueter had some kind of black magic going there for a while, confounding followers of his peripherals. maybe Rueter was catching liners like he was an octopus and they just didn't notice.

:)
   15. Walt Davis Posted: November 05, 2020 at 05:08 AM (#5987333)
Huh? I also could sworn Robert was not on the opening day roster but there he is. He signed his extension before the season began so there wasn't a reason to play service games.
   16. Walt Davis Posted: November 05, 2020 at 05:19 AM (#5987334)
Langston did win 8 GG. FWIW (probably not much) his RF/9 was barely above league-average; his FP a bit worse than average. He was high-K and slightly FB-oriented so he may have had fewer opps than the average pitcher.

I would guess pickoffs and holding runners aren't included in "fielding." I don't think DRS picks that up ... but it might. It doesn't particularly matter -- again any advantage there will get picked up in RA9.

Rueter never won a GG. His last 3 years he does have DRS and it's pretty off the charts at +21 over <450 IP. His RF/9 was 2.69 (1.81 lgAvg) and his FP a sterling 988 (959). So what evidence we have points to an excellent fielder.
   17. DCA Posted: November 05, 2020 at 09:13 AM (#5987344)
Reuter had a very good fielding rep. He just wasn't a good enough pitcher to win a gold glove. Greg Maddux won the NL gold glove every year of Reuter's career except 2003 when Mike Hampton took it his first year in Atlanta.
   18. jmurph Posted: November 05, 2020 at 10:01 AM (#5987353)
Love to see Betts having such a good year for the Dodgers. I'm frantically scrolling through to see if Future Payroll Flexibility was able to pick up a Gold Glove for his big season in Boston...
   19. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: November 05, 2020 at 10:13 AM (#5987356)
For some reason my brain thinks that all lefties pitchers do not field their position well. Logically I know how idiotic that is (hey Mr. Kaat) but my brain just says "oh lefty, he sucks."

That's a truly bizarre one. Lots of the famous great field P's have been LH. Of the 18 multiple Gold Glove winners, 8 are lefties (Kaat, Shantz, Langston, Guidry, Rogers, Buehrel, Keuchel, and Haddix).
   20. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: November 05, 2020 at 10:29 AM (#5987358)
I'm frantically scrolling through to see if Future Payroll Flexibility was able to pick up a Gold Glove for his big season in Boston...
Alex Verdugo didn't win a Gold Glove, but hitting .308/.367/.478 at age 24 is nothing to sneer at.
   21. villageidiom Posted: November 05, 2020 at 10:36 AM (#5987359)
Alex Verdugo didn't win a Gold Glove, but hitting .308/.367/.478 at age 24 is nothing to sneer at.
Betts himself hit .264/.344/.459 at that age, and finished 6th in AL MVP voting.
   22. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: November 05, 2020 at 10:48 AM (#5987362)
Alex Verdugo didn't win a Gold Glove, but hitting .308/.367/.478 at age 24 is nothing to sneer at.

It's the same old question; do you want to win the $/WAR championship, or do you want to win the World Series? Unfortunately, teams today generally prefer the former, b/c the shared revenue structure makes it more profitable.
   23. jmurph Posted: November 05, 2020 at 11:08 AM (#5987366)
I'll never stop whining about this, you'll all have to block me eventually and I make no apologies.
   24. Rally Posted: November 05, 2020 at 11:23 AM (#5987369)
The Betts trade was a great trade for the Red Sox if you think he was definitely on the way out and would not have resigned even if they offered him 365 million.

If he would have resigned, it's not a good trade for their prospects of building a great team in the near future.
   25. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: November 05, 2020 at 11:37 AM (#5987370)
I liked how the big Red Sox-Dodgers trade in 2012 was the Nick Punto trade, and I like this one being the Alex Verdugo trade.
   26. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: November 05, 2020 at 11:52 AM (#5987373)
The Betts trade was a great trade for the Red Sox if you think he was definitely on the way out and would not have resigned even if they offered him 365 million.

If he would have resigned, it's not a good trade for their prospects of building a great team in the near future.


Right. A big part of the context for keeping him was making him a lifetime Red Sox, who might end up as one of the 3 or 4 greatest players in team history.
   27. Tom Goes to the Ballpark Posted: November 05, 2020 at 11:55 AM (#5987374)
I liked how the big Red Sox-Dodgers trade in 2012 was the Nick Punto trade, and I like this one being the Alex Verdugo trade
I always enjoy the Punto framing too. I think calling the Betts deal the “Connor Wong” trade is more equivalent to calling the Gonzalez deal the “Nick Punto” trade though.

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