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Tuesday, April 28, 2020

Empty Stadium Sports Will Be Really Weird

So, with the very likely possibility that baseball and basketball — at minimum — will be played to empty stadiums, it begs the question: Will it be as fun?

And before you answer, think about it for a second. No crowd noise. No intensity that builds for the home team or against the away team. Yes, the scoreboard will tell the tale, but the pressure is cranked up when you have a building full of crazy fans screaming their lungs out.

I get that it’s a business and that the money’s at the ML level, but considering crowds, distance from population centers, and the pleasures of relaxed fandom, I’ve been thinking that we might just run some mLs instead.

Mayor Blomberg Posted: April 28, 2020 at 10:17 AM | 13254 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: business, fans, stadiums

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   12801. base ball chick Posted: April 21, 2021 at 01:34 PM (#6014703)
biscuit

it might could be true that trump supporters are the largest group refusing to get the vaccine, but there are millions in all kinds of other groups who also refuse to get the vaccine, and most of the people i talk to are not White trump supporters

i have zero idea how to get through to a person who tells me it is their freedom to get the disease instead of the vaccine and they tell me it is other peoples' problems if they give it to others.

i have zero idea how to get through to a Black person who tells me they will not take their chances with the vaccine because of the long history of racism in medicine and 6 females out of 75 million had side effects so therefore unless it has no side effects, it is bad. or if there is even one case of covid in a vaccinated person, it proves that the vaccine is no good

i have zero idea how to get through to a hippie type person who thinks that they are immune from all disease because they eat organic food and take vit D and zinc

i don't know how to even begin a discussion with someone who tells me it is impossible for them to catch any disease because their god protects them or their Vit D protects them

it is like trying to talk to someone who insists that trees have no roots because they can't see them under the ground (yes i did try briefly to talk to someone who told me that, even showed her an overturned tree with roots - got nowheres)

so
HOW do YOU talk to someone who states something that is physically impossible is true?

i have come to the place where i think that people often have a belief that is not based on anything but their own attitudes and those beliefs are unshakeable
   12802. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: April 21, 2021 at 01:44 PM (#6014714)
i have come to the place where i think that people often have a belief that is not based on anything but their own attitudes and those beliefs are unshakeable
beliefs vs. ideas.
HOW do YOU talk to someone who states something that is physically impossible is true?

it's not your responsibility to change anyone else's way of thinking (or lack thereof). but you're always free to register your displease/disgust.

believe it or not, sometimes shame is an effective motivator.
   12803. The Yankee Clapper Posted: April 21, 2021 at 01:44 PM (#6014715)
I do believe it's political, most polls and studies show that, with Trump supporters being most likely not to get the vaccine.
Putting aside for the moment the accuracy of such polls (who is least likely to cooperate with a pollster?), that isn’t the whole story. While one might not know it from this thread (before today), where some seem to focus exclusively on vaccine skepticism among their political opponents or those they dislike for some reason, there have been numerous reports about vaccine skepticism among blacks & Hispanics, even including health care workers. Louis Farrakhan is calling the vaccines a ‘death shot’, which certainly isn’t helpful no matter how marginal a public figure he may be. It might be too early to say what the effect will be - many who are cautious may be more inclined to get the vaccine after their friends, neighbors, and colleagues who did have gone weeks or months without problems.
   12804. Biscuit_pants Posted: April 21, 2021 at 01:54 PM (#6014724)
Some of those I have run into and some I have never had the opportunity/fun. I have never gotten through to the hippie type person in your example so there I got nothing.

The freedom people are usually pro military and I usually bring up the whole "I thought freedom wasn't free" while gesturing to their stupid bumper stickers or some of their pro-military to protect freedoms stuff.

The blacks that I have talked to with the stance of racism in medicine I usually steer them towards the conversation of non-blacks getting better medical treatments. They usually believe that blacks get worse opportunities in health care so getting them to see that if the whites are taking this then clearly this is not the case of racism in medicine. In fact by not getting it they are playing into the hands of what white people say that blacks had the same opportunities and didn't take it.

As to God protecting them, I usually tell those people that the vaccine IS God's way of protecting them.

I have not met many people that say it's other people's problem if they pass it on, at least not with covid. From what other people have said on that topic it tends to be people in their 20's/30's with that attitude.

I get that your frustrated and deservedly so since based on posts over the last year or so you are probably the most cautious person on this board with Covid.
   12805. Biscuit_pants Posted: April 21, 2021 at 01:57 PM (#6014726)
Putting aside for the moment the accuracy of such polls (who is least likely to cooperate with a pollster?), that isn’t the whole story. While one might not know it from this thread (before today), where some seem to focus exclusively on vaccine skepticism among their political opponents or those they dislike for some reason, there have been numerous reports about vaccine skepticism among blacks & Hispanics, even including health care workers. Louis Farrakhan is calling the vaccines a ‘death shot’, which certainly isn’t helpful no matter how marginal a public figure he may be. It might be too early to say what the effect will be - many who are cautious may be more inclined to get the vaccine after their friends, neighbors, and colleagues who did have gone weeks or months without problems.


Again, I don't care who is declaring what. In fact BBC is agreeing with you that it is not a one sided thing. I want the finger pointing to stop, I did not post that for blame. If Trump get re-elected maybe the numbers flip because we tend to make everything political. I want the conversation to get away from that.
   12806. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: April 21, 2021 at 02:01 PM (#6014731)
i have zero idea how to get through to a person who tells me it is their freedom to get the disease instead of the vaccine and they tell me it is other peoples' problems if they give it to others.

"wow, you're so enlightened. let me get my phone out so i can record this and make sure everyone we know sees it"
i have zero idea how to get through to a Black person who tells me they will not take their chances with the vaccine because of the long history of racism in medicine and 6 females out of 75 million had side effects so therefore unless it has no side effects, it is bad. or if there is even one case of covid in a vaccinated person, it proves that the vaccine is no good

"yeah, that's fair. well, some of it anyway. the rest of it makes you sound like a fourth grader doing a ted cruz impression."
i have zero idea how to get through to a hippie type person who thinks that they are immune from all disease because they eat organic food and take vit D and zinc
"you sound like a ####### looney toon."
i don't know how to even begin a discussion with someone who tells me it is impossible for them to catch any disease because their god protects them or their Vit D protects them
"'god helps those who help themselves', you spoiled ####### child"
it is like trying to talk to someone who insists that trees have no roots because they can't see them under the ground (yes i did try briefly to talk to someone who told me that, even showed her an overturned tree with roots - got nowheres)

"what the #### is wrong with you? did you drink paint thinner for breakfast again?"
HOW do YOU talk to someone who states something that is physically impossible is true?

"man, did you see john cena bodyslam the big show AND brock lesner, at the same time? that #### was insane"
   12807. Sleepy was just “inspecting the bunker”, y’all Posted: April 21, 2021 at 02:06 PM (#6014738)
Congress really should have tied the last round of stimulus checks to getting the vaccine. Would have cost them nothing extra and increased participation.

Contact tracing and forcing unvaccinated people to pay the hospital bills of those they infect would also be an effective economic incentive. Just one or two highly publicized bankruptcy proceedings would generate a lot of prodding.
   12808. The Yankee Clapper Posted: April 21, 2021 at 02:29 PM (#6014757)
Went to my 2nd Nationals game last night, and the 1st since capacity was increased from 5,000 to 25% (about 10,300). Got tickets when the lower limit was in effect, so I was out by the Nationals bullpen in right field. Not where I’d normally sit, but at least I’d get to closely observe future inner circle Hall of Famer Juan Soto. No such luck, he went on the 10-Day IL a few hours before game time.

The logistics were similar to what all ballparks seem to be doing. Seats sold in 1, 2, 4, or 6-person pods, unused seats zip-tied to prevent use & ensure separation, with masks required. The only difference is that this time the ushers didn’t deliver a pre-game speech reminding the entire section of the mask requirement, although they did move around during game breaks apparently checking on compliance. Didn’t see any non-compliance. There were a few vendors in the stands, beverages only. No vendors at my 1st game. Not all concession stands were open, and those open were cashless, with remote ordering by QR code from your seats or by the concession stand. Food seemed more scarce than drinks, probably due to the higher spoilage costs for unsold food.

The crowd was a bit under the allowed capacity, which mostly seems to be the case since they bumped it up. I expected that there would be a lot of pent up demand, but perhaps many are still cautious, or find the new ticketing process confusing or unsatisfactory (tickets were only available to the general public after season ticket & partial plan holders had taken the better seats), or just got out of the habit of going anywhere.

It’s a free country, but it seems to me that an outdoor activity like a baseball game is pretty low risk for those vaccinated, and perhaps even those young & healthy types still waiting. IMHO, it’s a peculiar type of vaccine skepticism to get the shot(s), and even encourage others to do so, but then continue to avoid even low-risk activities. The vaccines are reported to be 90-95% effective. Trust the science!
   12809. Mike A Posted: April 21, 2021 at 03:09 PM (#6014764)
Anti-vaccine movements through much of the 20th century were fringe and small enough not to be much of a hazard.
Was talking to my dad about the polio vaccine the other day. Anecdotal, but he said all the kids (including himself) were so scared of getting polio that they were overjoyed at getting the vaccine. Most kids knew of someone who had gotten polio with a bad outcome.

That said, there was certainly hesitancy from adults/teens getting the vaccine because polio was considered a 'childhood disease.' They felt they didn't need it. But Elvis getting the vaccine on TV and other community efforts helped overcome the initial hesitancy and polio was eventually eradicated in the US.

I don't know if that can be accomplished today, as people seem to be firmly entrenched in their anti-vaccine position.
   12810. Tony S Posted: April 21, 2021 at 03:24 PM (#6014766)

These are the choices for each individual:

(a) Get a serious disease that PROBABLY won't kill you (though it might), but is not unlikely to disable you at some level for a long time (perhaps for life), and is quite likely to make you very ill for a week or two if you're not one of the asymptomatic ones, which there is no guarantee you will be.

(b) Get a vaccine that might make you feel a bit run-down for a day or two, after which (a) can only happen to you if you're extremely unlucky.

I don't think anybody who decides upon (a) can possibly be reasoned with, and that's not limited to vaccination. It's just a reality of the human race.

That said, the correlation noted between Covid and ED might be effective in getting some of the anti-vax knuckleheads to get their shots.
   12811. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: April 21, 2021 at 03:38 PM (#6014768)
The best pro-vaccine argument I can think of is that all of the bad outcomes that people fear with the vaccine (i.e., blood clots) are much more likely to happen if they contract the disease itself. But I haven't really engaged with any anti-vax folks, except to let them know that my wife and I got vaccinated and are doing fine.
   12812. Biscuit_pants Posted: April 21, 2021 at 03:43 PM (#6014769)
But Elvis getting the vaccine on TV and other community efforts helped overcome the initial hesitancy and polio was eventually eradicated in the US.
There's our answer, show Elvis getting the vaccine. I saw a picture of him at a Chick-fil-a the other day, shouldn't be hard from there.
   12813. greenback used to say live and let live Posted: April 21, 2021 at 03:44 PM (#6014770)
Fox News: China created a virus that kills old people and causes erectile dysfunction in men. But our fearless leader has given us a vaccine to prevent its spread.
Fox News Viewer: #### no, I'm not taking a vaccine.

Yes, there's something broken here.
   12814. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: April 21, 2021 at 03:45 PM (#6014771)

India with 294k cases yesterday and 315k today. This thing does not seem to be slowing down there.

   12815. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: April 21, 2021 at 03:48 PM (#6014772)

Even when Ivanka posted a photo on Facebook of herself getting vaccinated, there were a ton of comments from pro-Trump people saying that they weren't going to get the shot. It really hit home for me how partisan the divide is (even though I'm sure there are liberals who are refusing to get it as well).
   12816. Eudoxus Posted: April 21, 2021 at 04:12 PM (#6014777)
I plugged the India numbers (seven day averages for all of April to date) into some curve-fitting software, which predicts that May 15 India will reach a million new cases a day. (The curve fitting software has the new case numbers asymptotically approaching 151 billion new cases a day, so let's hope that turns out to be wrong.) For a quicker test case, the curve says the 7-day average at the end of the day tomorrow will be 276832.
   12817. base ball chick Posted: April 21, 2021 at 04:24 PM (#6014780)
12804. Biscuit_pants Posted: April 21, 2021 at 01:54 PM (#6014724)

The blacks that I have talked to with the stance of racism in medicine I usually steer them towards the conversation of non-blacks getting better medical treatments. They usually believe that blacks get worse opportunities in health care so getting them to see that if the whites are taking this then clearly this is not the case of racism in medicine. In fact by not getting it they are playing into the hands of what white people say that blacks had the same opportunities and didn't take it.


- i have tried this, trust me. i have a stupidbrother who is saying all this shttt and i tell him he's a chicken scared of a little teensy needle. but ima use the info about ED because theres nothing he loves more than his youknowwhat. my kidz tried giving me that stuff but i told them if they didn't get vaccinated, they couldn't set foot in this house and after thinking it over, decided that saying byby to their mama was worse than getting the stupid shot


As to God protecting them, I usually tell those people that the vaccine IS God's way of protecting them.


- doesn't work. tried that one

I have not met many people that say it's other people's problem if they pass it on, at least not with covid. From what other people have said on that topic it tends to be people in their 20's/30's with that attitude.


- and 40s. by the 50s, folks get high blood pressure and diabetes and other medical problems and have some amount of the ability to feel guilt about deliberately harming other people, especially loved ones and friends, so they don't do that as much

I get that your frustrated and deservedly so since based on posts over the last year or so you are probably the most cautious person on this board with Covid


- it's like this - i don't think scientists are stupid, or are making it up that this virus exists. i don't think that the sight of bodies being mass buried is fake news. i don't think dr fauci is stupid or has political stuff making him act this way because anyone who stays in a govt position that isn't appointed loike a supreme court justice, well is not political.

- so the virus exists, kills people and not just old people, kills Black people at a higher rate than White people and kills people with high blood pressure, bad lungs and diabetes more often.

- it's not like they are telling it to just US, it is to everybody, so it's not like they are giving us wring info to harm us.

ok

if you catch it by breathing it in, especially in crowded places inside, i'm wearing masks and not going inside any place crowded. i don't think it makes my penis smaller or limper, seeing as how i already win smallest penis contests anyhow.

AND seeing as how Husband has pre-existing conditions and i am NOT about to let him die or suffer long covid, i'm being super careful and insisting that everyone else around us is too. even though it has caused me a lot of, um, problems in my persdonal life. that's just too bad. Husband is more important, seeing as how i got to make a choice
   12818. The Yankee Clapper Posted: April 21, 2021 at 04:30 PM (#6014782)
. . . there were a ton of comments from pro-Trump people saying that they weren't going to get the shot.
Could be authentic, but I’d be wary of giving too much weight to Internet comments. Those who comment may not be representative of those who don’t, and there are folks all across the political spectrum with too much time on their hands who apparently think posting false-flag messages is an effective tactic.
   12819. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: April 21, 2021 at 04:44 PM (#6014787)
I plugged the India numbers (seven day averages for all of April to date) into some curve-fitting software, which predicts that May 15 India will reach a million new cases a day. (The curve fitting software has the new case numbers asymptotically approaching 151 billion new cases a day, so let's hope that turns out to be wrong.) For a quicker test case, the curve says the 7-day average at the end of the day tomorrow will be 276832.

bad news for you: the trump administration is no longer hiring statisticians.
   12820. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: April 21, 2021 at 04:46 PM (#6014789)
It is possible that the polls are being trolled by Trump supporters pretending they won’t get vaccinated, and that Ivanka is being trolled by lefties pretending to be Trump supporters who won’t get vaccinated, but...it seems more likely to me that there is an actual trend here.
   12821. Sleepy was just “inspecting the bunker”, y’all Posted: April 21, 2021 at 04:49 PM (#6014791)
Could be authentic, but I’d be wary of giving too much weight to Internet comments. Those who comment may not be representative of those who don’t, and there are folks all across the political spectrum with too much time on their hands who apparently think posting false-flag messages is an effective tactic.
Also lots of Russian an Chinese and Iranian disinformation actors pushing buttons just to wreak havoc.

Sadly it’s nearly impossible to distinguish between those bad actors and run of the mill MAGAns these days...
   12822. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: April 21, 2021 at 05:14 PM (#6014796)

Also lots of Russian an Chinese and Iranian disinformation actors pushing buttons just to wreak havoc.

Sadly it’s nearly impossible to distinguish between those bad actors and run of the mill MAGAns these days...


Some of the "I'm not getting the vaccine" posters were blue check-marks or otherwise well-known people whose accounts are easily verified as authentic. I'm sure there are a few bots or Russians but where there's smoke, there's fire.
   12823. bunyon Posted: April 21, 2021 at 05:20 PM (#6014798)
It’s a free country, but it seems to me that an outdoor activity like a baseball game is pretty low risk for those vaccinated, and perhaps even those young & healthy types still waiting. IMHO, it’s a peculiar type of vaccine skepticism to get the shot(s), and even encourage others to do so, but then continue to avoid even low-risk activities. The vaccines are reported to be 90-95% effective. Trust the science!

Agreed. So long as the distance is maintained, outdoors is fine.

It is possible that the polls are being trolled by Trump supporters pretending they won’t get vaccinated, and that Ivanka is being trolled by lefties pretending to be Trump supporters who won’t get vaccinated, but...it seems more likely to me that there is an actual trend here.

We'll know soon enough. It certainly looks like demand might already be tailing off.
   12824. MY PAIN IS NOT A HOLIDAY (CoB). Posted: April 21, 2021 at 05:32 PM (#6014801)
Biscuit_Pants
I don't know if you read the link in my post where I talked about the New Orleans' "shot for a shot" night, but it was to a Politico article about how we're starting to see states where vaccine supply is outstripping demand and what to do to increase demand.
There are some interesting ideas in there that states are talking about:

In Billings — Montana’s largest city — three-quarters of vaccine appointments are open, said Sen. Jon Tester (D-Mont.), and vaccine hesitancy is a leading reason why.

Tester said trusted members of the community will have to play a leading role in winning over the unvaccinated, but added he’d also like the CDC to more explicitly link vaccines to a return to normal life.
...
With the exception of the Washington, D.C. suburbs and Richmond, demand in Virginia has precipitously declined since the state made all adult residents eligible for shots, said Danny Avula, the state vaccine coordinator.

“We’ve hit this demand wall,” he said. “We’ve reached a point where our efforts and strategies are going to need to change.”

The state plans to allocate more vaccines to primary care providers, a move Sununu also touted, as surveys have shown many people are more likely to be persuaded by their own physician.
...
The problem goes beyond the conspiracy theorists and anti-vaccine crusaders. There are millions of Americans without the ability or the motivation to get vaccinated. Multiple state officials said the focus now is meeting people where they are.

In North Dakota, the state is partnering with employers to bring the vaccine to workplaces, the way many companies do with the flu shot.
...
In Louisiana, state health officials are aiming for smaller scale events in neighborhoods, churches and community centers — “places that people feel comfortable,” said Joseph Kanter, the state’s health officer.

“When we do polling and we do focus groups, what we do not hear that frequently is people that are adamantly opposed to ever getting vaccinated,” he said. “What's much more common for us to hear is people that aren’t sure, they have questions, they're on the fence, they want to wait and see, they want to talk to people.”
...
Officials in Alaska are devising new ways of boosting vaccine confidence. The state has a Physician's Bureau, a group of doctors that conducts a short PowerPoint presentation and answer questions at Rotary Club luncheons and PTA meetings. In Fairbanks, local health providers made videos explaining their decision to get vaccinated. And some areas are creating incentives, like in Juneau, where physicians chipped in to create a lottery with a cash prize for those who get vaccinated at large sites, Zink said.

Anyways, I thought it was at least adjacent to the conversation that you and bbc were having ... because I think a) some people can never be reached, but b) I think that number is far smaller than the people who *can* be persuaded through the right outreach.
I think the progress will be frustratingly slow at first, but might start to build momentum towards a point where only the truly hard-core anti-vaccine (this vax or all-vaxs) will remain.
I ... hope.


Also ... I don't think I've seen an update from puck in a couple of days ...anyone know if he's continuing in his recovery? Hopefully I just missed a positive post.
   12825. Biscuit_pants Posted: April 21, 2021 at 05:54 PM (#6014804)
I had not CoB, sorry.

a couple of those points are really good. The one person in my life that I thought would never get it for some good, mostly bad reasons was just convinced by their family doctor. I was impressed. I am guessing more than a few people don't trust doctors but trust THEIR doctor.

There are millions of Americans without the ability or the motivation to get vaccinated.
I have never lived in a rural area in my life (outside of college if that counts) but I know some that moved from rural areas that spoke of parents not wanting to go to a specialist because it was X miles away, which I never understood but never lived so just shrugged it off until I read that sentence. I am betting if they bring it to places like the VA, local Dr offices, or something creative a lot of those people will get them.

The weirdest thing I ever saw while in college (weird to me from growing up in a city that is) was one of the small towns near by was holding a contest at the....Rally's? DQ? to see if they could sell more of something than another nearby town. Someone I knew was from that town and thought it would be fun to participate so I said what the hell and went with. We stood in line for 2 hours for our burger. This was a town of 8,000 or so. They were into it. I am sure people from small towns can come up with stuff like that to get people engaged.


lol, I haven't thought about some of this stuff in years.

Hopefully as things open up some, people will see that getting this shot will get life back to normal.
   12826. Tony S Posted: April 21, 2021 at 06:18 PM (#6014807)
Tester said trusted members of the community will have to play a leading role in winning over the unvaccinated, but added he’d also like the CDC to more explicitly link vaccines to a return to normal life.


This is the way to do it.

Covid restrictions can be gradually lifted as vaccination thresholds are met. Restaurants don't fully open until we get 50% of people vaccinated -- policy like that. That's the best incentive to get the anti-vax knuckleheads on board.
   12827. Biscuit_pants Posted: April 21, 2021 at 06:27 PM (#6014811)
This is the way to do it.

Covid restrictions can be gradually lifted as vaccination thresholds are met. Restaurants don't fully open until we get 50% of people vaccinated -- policy like that. That's the best incentive to get the anti-vax knuckleheads on board.


Sadly true, this started as an economic issue, it may have to end as an economic issue. I hope not but....
   12828. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: April 21, 2021 at 08:04 PM (#6014831)
This is the way to do it.

Covid restrictions can be gradually lifted as vaccination thresholds are met. Restaurants don't fully open until we get 50% of people vaccinated -- policy like that. That's the best incentive to get the anti-vax knuckleheads on board.

you also have to remember that a lot of people are going to have PTSD (for lack of a better term...i think) as things open up.

for a lot of people, being in a crowd is not going to feel safe; being in a restaurant when someone coughs is not going to feel safe; going to a baseball game with 40,000 other fans is not going to feel safe.

sure, some people are going to be in a rush to get back to normal, but a lot of others are going to have lasting mental scars from all of this.
   12829. gef the talking mongoose, peppery hostile Posted: April 21, 2021 at 10:02 PM (#6014851)
Feeling a bit crap at the moment, which I'm hoping is just momentary malaise rather than side effects from Pfizer vaccine No. 2 a day & a half ago (Google advises me that such things tend to occur a day or 2 later). We'll see, but no big deal either way.
   12830. gef the talking mongoose, peppery hostile Posted: April 21, 2021 at 10:06 PM (#6014852)
Otherwise, yesterday I finished one of the better contagion novels I've ever encountered, especially as it's rife with zombie apocalypse tropes (as elaborated on by a couple of the characters. Extremely engaging, fast-paced & often heartbreaking; I very much recommend it.

In any event, it came out in 2019, so obviously was written some while before then, but damn if some of the passages don't seem eerily spot-on --

"The virus doesn't herald the end of the world, or the United States, or even the commonwealth of Massachusetts. In the coming days, conditions will continue to deteriorate. Emergency services and other public safety nets will be stretched to their breaking points, exacerbated by the wily antagonists of fear, panic, misinformation; a myopic, sluggish federal bureaucracy further hamstrung by a president unwilling and woefully unequipped to make the rational, science-based decisions necessary; and exacerbated, of course, by plain old individual everyday evil."

A militia type: "Did you read the Reddit I sent about the UN conspiring with the deep state to manufacture and spread the virus so they can swoop in and save the day with new vaccines to fool the public into thinking the other vaccines they force on us are safe"?

Such individuals, after all, "believe the deep state is purposefully spreading their lab-created virus to push vaccination agendas, attempt a coup as America is distracted and succumbing to the health crisis, and then decree a permanent state of martial law."

One doctor to another -- "we should be able to contain the outbreak. But that presumes people do not panic, the correct information and instructions are disseminated efficiently to the public, that the federal government follows the CDC's recommendation to be proactive with vaccine, and not reactive."

Obviously, all the elements for such a scenario -- a belligerent idiot in the White House, idol of all sorts of fevered conspiracy-theory-consumed lunatics, rampant antivaxxers, hordes of just plain morons, etc. -- were in place before the author ever set finger to keyboard, but still ... that's some pretty impressive forecasting, however inadvertent & unknowing.
   12831. Tony S Posted: April 21, 2021 at 10:07 PM (#6014854)
you also have to remember that a lot of people are going to have PTSD (for lack of a better term...i think) as things open up.


Oh, I'm one of them. I ate indoors at a restaurant last Saturday (first time in over a year), and even though my entire party of five was fully vaccinated and the tables were decently spaced, there was still definitely some residual anxiety (for all of us). I still step way out of the way when approaching someone coming in the other direction. It's going to take a little while to re-adjust.

   12832. Mike A Posted: April 21, 2021 at 11:13 PM (#6014872)
What I've been doing is simply taking it slowly. Getting back into society after basically being away for a year was pretty disconcerting at first, but I didn't push it and let the comfort and confidence build back up. Baby steps, Bob. You don't need to go to that awesome Styx concert right out of the gate.
   12833. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: April 22, 2021 at 07:03 AM (#6014892)
It was a mere six weeks ago that folks here were wondering how India had avoided massive infection/death totals. I think that underscores the fact that diseases don't always spread predictably, and that past results are no guarantee of future performance.
   12834. bunyon Posted: April 22, 2021 at 09:48 AM (#6014905)
   12835. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: April 22, 2021 at 10:47 AM (#6014907)
I haven't gone completely back to normal but being vaccinated has relieved most of the anxiety I felt about indoor activities. My father was in the hospital last week (thankfully he's out now) and I visited him several times. I started going to physical therapy for a running injury a few weeks ago, which is basically like being in a small but crowded gym. Both of these are things I would have been nervous about pre-vaccine, but I haven't given them a second thought.

Eating indoors still feels a bit weird to me (I did it for the first time last week). Now that my wife has gotten her second shot I expect we'll be more open to that in a couple of weeks. Of course, now that it's spring we'll probably just continue to do outdoor dining whenever it's an option. I hope NYC continues to allow restaurants to use the extra outdoor space for a while even after the pandemic ends -- lord knows they need the revenue.
   12836. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: April 22, 2021 at 11:37 AM (#6014918)
I've been a bit surprised by people posting online about having their first restaurant meal or their first "date" in a year, now that they're finally vaccinated. And then they post a photo of themselves eating outdoors. I'm not being judgmental -- maybe they are immunocompromised or interact with a lot of vulnerable people and want to be extra cautious -- but that outdoor meal has been pretty safe all along.
   12837. Ron J Posted: April 22, 2021 at 12:01 PM (#6014924)
Canadian here. Outdoor dining isn't what you'd call comfortable (or even feasible) for a significant portion of the year.

As in it snowed today.
   12838. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: April 22, 2021 at 12:07 PM (#6014928)
Yes, but the first time in a year means they weren’t doing it last summer/fall, either.
   12839. Ben Broussard Ramjet Posted: April 22, 2021 at 12:33 PM (#6014933)
I'm not being judgmental -- maybe they are immunocompromised or interact with a lot of vulnerable people and want to be extra cautious -- but that outdoor meal has been pretty safe all along.


That was my wife's logic - although there were outdoor dining options near us, the combination of her immunocompromised status, and the fact that outside heaters plus canopies aren't necessarily the best for circulating air according to a paper she saw, meant that we're still waiting for our promised 10th anniversary steakhouse meal. (Ordering venison in periodically has helped soften the blow.)
   12840. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: April 22, 2021 at 01:02 PM (#6014937)
Yes, but the first time in a year means they weren’t doing it last summer/fall, either.


I think it's just an abundance of caution. A lot of people hear about (the entirely valid and dangerous) risk of COVID and just blank out as much out-of-the-home activities as possible. There's little consideration for the actual % of risk involved with each activity. It's easier in a way, if you rule out most everything you don't have to constantly justify or ask yourself 'is it worth it' on every activity. It also keeps you from engaging in the more dangerous activities, if you don't allow yourself to go out to a pretty safe outdoor dinner with just the significant other, then you'll definitely think twice about having a few family members over for a holiday meal.
   12841. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: April 22, 2021 at 01:04 PM (#6014938)
Ordering venison in periodically has helped soften the blow


Nice. What's the preferred cooking method? I've eaten a ton of home cooked venison, don't think I've ever had any from a restaurant though.
   12842. JJ1986 Posted: April 22, 2021 at 01:09 PM (#6014939)
I've been a bit surprised by people posting online about having their first restaurant meal or their first "date" in a year, now that they're finally vaccinated. And then they post a photo of themselves eating outdoors. I'm not being judgmental -- maybe they are immunocompromised or interact with a lot of vulnerable people and want to be extra cautious -- but that outdoor meal has been pretty safe all along.
We've been doing outdoor dining, but haven't gone out without the kids since like August because we didn't want babysitters in the house when things were bad. So at some point we'll do our first meal without children in 8-9 months.
   12843. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: April 22, 2021 at 01:28 PM (#6014941)
All of those explanations make sense.

It’s also likely that people who have lost income during the pandemic are trying to save money by not eating out as much. Although I don’t think that applies to the people I’m talking about.
   12844. Lassus Posted: April 22, 2021 at 01:41 PM (#6014943)
I've been a bit surprised by people posting online about having their first restaurant meal or their first "date" in a year, now that they're finally vaccinated. And then they post a photo of themselves eating outdoors. I'm not being judgmental -- maybe they are immunocompromised or interact with a lot of vulnerable people and want to be extra cautious -- but that outdoor meal has been pretty safe all along.

It's sort of an odd mix. There were some places in the area that were outside, but just too many people. I realized it was safe outdoors, and I honesty haven't worn a mask walking my dog at all since this started, because it's a small town and enormously easy to stay away from everyone. But honestly, I've avoided most of the outdoorsy restaurants, which, well, in this area, being in the southern Canadian province of central New York, it has been snowing here a decent part of the day. And probably will once in May. And then start again in September.

As we are both vaccinated, we have started INFREQUENTLY dining amongst others in restauratrs, even indoors. Two or three times in the past month, but, granted making sure we are far apart, scoping places.
   12845. Ron J Posted: April 22, 2021 at 01:41 PM (#6014944)
Ontario ended up in a lockdown for much of the summer. There has only been a limited period of time where the weather's been suitable and outdoor dining has been permitted.
   12846. gef the talking mongoose, peppery hostile Posted: April 22, 2021 at 01:43 PM (#6014945)
As noted previously, I've been eating inside at restaurants, more or less daily, since probably June. I can only assume that everyone else is unfortunately in the middle of absolute raging hotspots. And/or borderline psychotically fearful.

I also don't personally know anyone who's contracted the virus, which is probably a factor.
   12847. gef the talking mongoose, peppery hostile Posted: April 22, 2021 at 01:46 PM (#6014947)
Feeling a bit crap at the moment, which I'm hoping is just momentary malaise rather than side effects from Pfizer vaccine No. 2 a day & a half ago (Google advises me that such things tend to occur a day or 2 later). We'll see, but no big deal either way.


False alarm, apparently, as I'm feeling rather normal today. Fingers crossed.
   12848. The Yankee Clapper Posted: April 22, 2021 at 03:44 PM (#6014965)
I've been a bit surprised by people posting online about having their first restaurant meal or their first "date" in a year, now that they're finally vaccinated. And then they post a photo of themselves eating outdoors.
Some may be making the return to normalcy in baby steps, but in some cases outdoor capacity may be just about equal to, or greater than, than the indoor, socially-distanced dining capacity. I dined had a couple of beers outside recently just because the inside was full and the weather was quite pleasant.
   12849. Tony S Posted: April 22, 2021 at 06:28 PM (#6014986)
This is smart.


Justice set a goal Wednesday of 70% for partial vaccination. If the state reaches that number, Justice said he would rescind the indoor mask requirements put into place last summer by executive order.


Puts the anti-vax knuckleheads in a bind. Get the vaccine, or keep on having to deal with masking?
   12850. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: April 22, 2021 at 07:34 PM (#6014991)
As we are both vaccinated, we have started INFREQUENTLY dining amongst others in restauratrs, even indoors. Two or three times in the past month, but, granted making sure we are far apart, scoping places.


I think this kind of shows how the individual baselines are so different at the individual level as well. Before Covid, I'd guess I dined out about once per month on average. Since getting my vaccine, I've been willing to do anything, but I haven't had the opportunity really. I was already going to the gym (classes got moved outdoors) and playing ultimate frisbee when I was unvaccinated. And I even ate at restaurants a few times when they were open. I suppose I could go out to a bar again, but unless somebody invites me to go with them, I just don't have the motivation. I will be traveling at the end of the month, which is something I would not have done before getting vaccinated, and on the trip I will be attending the Dodger games at the Brewers and Cubs (plus catching a White Sox game), so I guess that will be the first vaccination freedom event.
   12851. Eudoxus Posted: April 22, 2021 at 10:17 PM (#6015020)
For a quicker test case, the curve says the 7-day average at the end of the day tomorrow will be 276832.

Actual 7-day average at the end of the day today = 281367. Looks like deaths in India will overtake deaths in Brazil at some point in the next week.
   12852. Lassus Posted: April 23, 2021 at 08:09 AM (#6015043)
and playing ultimate frisbee when I was unvaccinated.

I've generally been super hardcore about ANYTHING indoors while being mostly fine with almost anything outdoors. Even though I've been OK
mocking solo masked walkers for 14 months while also driving my wife nuts with "no, not safe" for any number of activities she's posited, I would have drawn the line at Ultimate. I mean, how do you deal with being guarded and breathed on for that long? Even masked I don't think I would have felt remotely comfortable with that.

Oh, also, I'm old and haven't played in 15 years. OK, let's maybe forget that part.
   12853. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: April 23, 2021 at 08:41 AM (#6015046)

I remember being nervous about the soccer games that were going on at the track where I ran last summer. Not that I was going to get sick from them, but that the people playing there would get sick.

In retrospect, my sense is that it was a pretty safe activity. But who knew at the time?
   12854. Lassus Posted: April 23, 2021 at 08:52 AM (#6015048)
Even though I've been OK mocking solo masked walkers for 14 months

Er, BTW, I meant this as being in a cowardly fashion, to myself, in my house. Not actually to the people themselves.
   12855. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: April 23, 2021 at 09:27 AM (#6015049)
[12852] It is outside and I’m running around for most of the time, the exception being when I have the disc or am marking the person with the disc. We did shut the game down for a couple months early on, but after it reopened, I figured that one it was outside, but also that if I did get sick, I’d be quarantined two weeks, which sounded preferable to missing a whole year of playing a sport I enjoy.
   12856. Lassus Posted: April 23, 2021 at 12:28 PM (#6015066)
Well, sure, but being admittedly kinda judgy, "I'll just be sick and quarantined for two weeks" is sorta how we ended up in this mess. Asymptomatic transmission is definitely a thing.
   12857. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: April 23, 2021 at 01:44 PM (#6015073)
I know it's socially irresponsible. But to be honest, it's kind of tough to care much about social responsibility when I frequently saw pictures on Instagram of friends traveling, at house parties and clubbing. Like why should I give up my fun activities when so many people around me are engaging in far riskier behavior? But that's really the rub of this whole thing- on a personal level the enjoyment of activities outweighs the risk and no individual has much of an impact on the overall spread of the virus, but there's also a cumulative social cost. Game theorists refer to this as a Tragedy of the Commons.
   12858. MY PAIN IS NOT A HOLIDAY (CoB). Posted: April 23, 2021 at 04:03 PM (#6015091)
A United States senator, ladies and gentlemen ...

Johnson, a former plastics manufacturer with a bachelor’s degree in business and accounting, said he doesn’t think people should feel pressured to get vaccinated.

“The science tells us the vaccines are 95% effective, so if you have a vaccine quite honestly what do you care if your neighbor has one or not?” Johnson said. “What is it to you? You’ve got a vaccine and science is telling you it’s very, very effective. So why is this big push to make sure everybody gets a vaccine? And it’s to the point where you’re going to shame people, you’re going to force them to carry a card to prove that they’ve been vaccinated so they can still stay in society. I’m getting highly suspicious of what’s happening here.”



the Graun
   12859. Mayor Blomberg Posted: April 23, 2021 at 04:59 PM (#6015095)
When a Republican starts a sentence, "Science tells us," you know he's dusting off the stupid.
   12860. MY PAIN IS NOT A HOLIDAY (CoB). Posted: April 23, 2021 at 05:11 PM (#6015096)
Someone should have him roll a d20 and see how long it takes to hit a "20" ...
   12861. Sleepy was just “inspecting the bunker”, y’all Posted: April 23, 2021 at 05:39 PM (#6015098)
Someone should have him roll a d20 and see how long it takes to hit a "20" ...


Everyone knows games of chance are the work of Satan. No God-fearing gentleman would lay hands on such a thing.
   12862. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: April 23, 2021 at 05:46 PM (#6015100)
Not COVID-related, but as this is the catch-all infectious disease thread, I thought I should post this article. Initial trials suggest the new Oxford malaria vaccine is 77% effective. We're talking the single deadliest disease in history, here, folks. This is big.
   12863. Sleepy was just “inspecting the bunker”, y’all Posted: April 23, 2021 at 06:00 PM (#6015101)
Meh, looks like another vicious liberal attack on the critical hydroxochloroquine industry to me.
   12864. JJ1986 Posted: April 23, 2021 at 06:07 PM (#6015102)
"suspicious"?
   12865. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: April 23, 2021 at 07:09 PM (#6015106)

India with 332k cases yesterday and 345k today. It looks like the Rt may be coming down a little, but who really knows? You would think at some point it would have to. At this rate they'll be at half a million cases per day in a couple of weeks but these things are really hard to project.
   12866. The Yankee Clapper Posted: April 24, 2021 at 02:31 AM (#6015187)
This must be some kind of tipping point, no? NFL say vaccinated Roger Goodell can resume hugging draft choices:
NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell has been given the green light to return to hugging players after he received the COVID-19 vaccine, the National Football League (NFL) said Friday.
Still, maybe the CDC should send observers?
   12867. MY PAIN IS NOT A HOLIDAY (CoB). Posted: April 24, 2021 at 08:35 PM (#6015226)
But those figures don’t capture casualties like Nurul Amin, who ran a pharmacy in his village of Rajgram. He knew the warning signs for Covid, but when he developed fever and a cough as a second wave of the pandemic was crashing across India earlier this month, he refused to get tested.

“He insisted it was just an ordinary fever and he would get better with some medication,” his sister-in-law Zainab Begum said. “He told me the hospital was full of Covid patients and he would catch the disease if he went there.” Five days later, when the 58-year-old began struggling to breathe, his family raced him to a hospital but he died before he could be admitted, and was buried without ever being tested for the disease.

He is one of 10 people in the village suspected to have been killed by the disease, but never tested, while five people died after testing positive. Those figures suggest official data will be missing up to two thirds of Rajgram’s Covid losses.


Graun
   12868. Tony S Posted: April 25, 2021 at 07:57 AM (#6015242)
   12869. MY PAIN IS NOT A HOLIDAY (CoB). Posted: April 25, 2021 at 11:13 AM (#6015248)
Oh, yeah, really underreported ...
In Gujarat, there are several such cases of COVID-19 patients missing from the list of those infected as hospital authorities mention other conditions as the primary cause of death and not COVID-19.

For example, on April 16, as per the State health bulletin, total deaths were 78. But from seven cities — Ahmedabad, Surat, Rajkot, Vadodara, Gandhinagar, Jamnagar and Bhavnagar — 689 bodies were either cremated or buried following COVID-19 protocols on the disposal of bodies. “From Ahmedabad’s 1,200-bed COVID-19 designated Civil Hospital, almost 200 bodies were moved out on Friday (April 16) from the morgue,” a source in the hospital’s mortuary told The Hindu. Similarly, from Surat’s two main hospitals, officials said that “around 190 bodies were sent for cremation”.


Convenient.
According to sources, the government has formed a death audit committee in every district to determine the primary cause of deaths. After the first wave in 2020, the State government issued an order directing an audit of all COVID-19 deaths. Only cases where the primary reason of death is determined to be COVID-19 would be classified as “COVID-19 deaths”, the order stated. “The committee, consisting of civil hospital doctors and others, does not count any comorbid death as a COVID-19 death. Only those deaths where the cause is viral pneumonia is considered as a COVID death and counted in the official figures. But in this disease, we have noticed that a large number of deaths occur due to sudden cardiac arrest or heart failure, brain stroke and multiple organ failures and they are not considered,” a government official said.


thehindu.com
   12870. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: April 25, 2021 at 07:52 PM (#6015337)
Flames engulfed a Baghdad hospital for COVID-19 patients late Saturday, killing at least 82 people. The run-down hospital, located in one of Baghdad’s poorest neighborhood, had no sprinklers or smoke detectors. Preliminary reports suggest the fire, which also injured 110 people, began with and exploding oxygen cylinder. Video showed a chaotic scene at the Ibn Al-Khatib Hospital as people rushed to try to evacuate as many patients as possible while flames overtook the building. Of the total, 28 of the patients killed had been on life support.
...
Doctors have long warned that aging health care infrastructure was a deadly risk. Staff at the hospital said the same fire could have taken place at any other government hospital. “They all have the same ceilings, the same faulty electric wires,” one doctor tells the Washington Post. “There’s no fire-escape plan, no fire extinguishers.”

   12871. Random Transaction Generator Posted: April 26, 2021 at 12:16 AM (#6015413)
Just got my first vaccine shot, AstraZeneca. As a healthy, Canadian, 50-year-old, work-from-home-drone, I figured I would be way down the list and probably not until late June for the first shot. But they opened it up to ages 40+ and I signed up for my local pharmacy's waiting list on Monday. I got texted on Thursday, got my 5th choice for the date/time of the shot (after the first four disappeared as I was making them) and got my shot Sunday evening.

My arm is a bit sore, but just like the flu shot. I feel a bit warm and my head aches a bit, but Advil is keeping that from being anything much. We'll see how I fare when I wake up tomorrow night.

My wife got the notification text 30 seconds after me, and the slots were going so quickly that she won't be able to get her shot until Tuesday afternoon.

We also have appointments on Wednesday (main chain pharmacy) and Friday (out of town pharmacy). My appointments are canceled, and she'll cancel her's after she gets the shots.

There are rumours of an AZ shortage, so I am glad I got my shot when I did.
   12872. Ron J Posted: April 26, 2021 at 03:39 AM (#6015425)
I got my shot Sunday morning. Moderna. Really tired for most of Sunday but aside from that it's fine.

Man there are a lot of people involved in making the vaccinations happen. But they've really got it well organized.
   12873. MY PAIN IS NOT A HOLIDAY (CoB). Posted: April 26, 2021 at 08:44 AM (#6015427)
Got my first Pfizer on Friday, along with my parents. They were both a bit off on Saturday, but other than a short period of feeling warm Friday night and a slightly sore arm, I didn't have any reaction to it.
2nd dose is in 3 weeks.
   12874. jmurph Posted: April 26, 2021 at 08:50 AM (#6015429)
There are rumours of an AZ shortage, so I am glad I got my shot when I did.

Aren't we (the US) still sitting on like 100 million doses of this? Not our finest moment.
   12875. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: April 26, 2021 at 09:16 AM (#6015432)
India’s case numbers have slowed over the last few days (333k->345k->349k->354k). I don’t know how much to trust those numbers given some of the other things I’ve read, and I don’t know how many tests they’ve been doing, but that’s a lot better than continuing to increase by 15-20k per day.
   12876. The Yankee Clapper Posted: April 26, 2021 at 09:28 AM (#6015434)
Aren't we (the US) still sitting on like 100 million doses of this? Not our finest moment.
35-40M doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine according to this report, but we may have 1st call on more. That was probably going to Canada & Mexico in due time, but who knows what things will look like by the time any decision is made.
   12877. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: April 26, 2021 at 09:32 AM (#6015435)
I had my second pfizer on Saturday. Zero side effects other than a little soreness at the site of injection. Glad to get it done.
   12878. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: April 26, 2021 at 09:45 AM (#6015438)
My wife got her second Pfizer dose last week and her reaction was pretty similar to my reaction to J&J. She had a mild fever for a day, and some arm/back soreness, but was back at work on day 2.
   12879. JJ1986 Posted: April 26, 2021 at 10:56 AM (#6015448)
I had a splitting headache and a fever about 12 hours after getting my J&J shot, but then was perfectly fine the next morning.
   12880. MY PAIN IS NOT A HOLIDAY (CoB). Posted: April 26, 2021 at 12:41 PM (#6015479)

India’s case numbers have slowed over the last few days (333k->345k->349k->354k). I don’t know how much to trust those numbers given some of the other things I’ve read, and I don’t know how many tests they’ve been doing, but that’s a lot better than continuing to increase by 15-20k per day.


I'd say trust that the numbers are significantly lower than actual cases; COVID deaths 100% are undercounted since a) as quoted above, the government is defining "COVID death" as narrowly as possible b) COVID deaths away from hospitals aren't being tested posthumously and c) crematoriums are working around the clock and there are so many bodies that fields are being converted into makeshift crematoria. There's no way India's at 2500 *total* daily COVID deaths nationwide right now.

A horrifying snapshot:
In Kanpur, bodies are being burned in the city’s parks as crematoriums are full and BBC Gujarati reported that the chimneys at crematoriums in Gujarat were melting because the gas furnaces were burning round the clock.
   12881. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: April 26, 2021 at 01:36 PM (#6015494)

I'd say trust that the numbers are significantly lower than actual cases; COVID deaths 100% are undercounted since a) as quoted above, the government is defining "COVID death" as narrowly as possible b) COVID deaths away from hospitals aren't being tested posthumously and c) crematoriums are working around the clock and there are so many bodies that fields are being converted into makeshift crematoria. There's no way India's at 2500 *total* daily COVID deaths nationwide right now.


"Trust that the numbers don't tell us anything meaningful" isn't particularly useful, though. The question I was trying to get at was the trend. Are things continuing to get a lot worse, or plateauing? Are actual cases 5x or 10x or the number of reported cases?

350k confirmed cases per day, on a per capita basis, isn't much worse than the US right now. But the multiplier is almost certainly higher given that their positive test rate is ~20%, compared to single digits in the US.

Their positive test rate has stayed pretty flat the past few days, so the plateuing of cases may be real and not just a result of limited testing capacity or something like that.
   12882. The Yankee Clapper Posted: April 26, 2021 at 03:16 PM (#6015525)
Perhaps someone in the White House is reading BBTF? U.S. to send up to 60M AstraZeneca vaccine doses to other countries:
The United States will share up to 60 million doses of the AstraZeneca coronavirus vaccine with other countries, as the White House faces growing pressure to help vaccinate the global population, especially in poorer countries, as cases spike across the world, the White House announced Monday. The AstraZeneca vaccine, which is not yet authorized for use in the U.S. by the Food and Drug Administration, will be sent to other countries once it clears federal safety reviews, officials said.
That timeline remains somewhat imprecise.
   12883. gef the talking mongoose, peppery hostile Posted: April 26, 2021 at 03:57 PM (#6015536)
There are rumours of an AZ shortage,


Good. We could all do with less Arizona in the nation. And the other 3 "A" states well. I've lived in 3 of the 4, god help, excepting Alaska.
   12884. RJ in TO Posted: April 26, 2021 at 04:18 PM (#6015541)
Aren't we (the US) still sitting on like 100 million doses of this? Not our finest moment.
U.S. set to begin sharing its entire stock of AstraZeneca-Oxford COVID-19 vaccines

The U.S. will begin sharing its entire pipeline of vaccines from AstraZeneca-Oxford once the COVID-19 vaccine clears federal safety reviews, the White House told The Associated Press on Monday — with as many as 60 million doses expected to be available for export in the coming months.

The move greatly expands on the Biden administration's action last month to share about four million doses of the vaccine with Canada and Mexico.

The AstraZeneca vaccine is widely in use around the world, including here in Canada, but is not yet authorized by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration.
   12885. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: April 26, 2021 at 04:29 PM (#6015544)

Andy Slavitt on Twitter, regarding the release of the AZ vaccine doses:


To everyone who understandably says: "about time" or "what were they waiting for", at this time there are still very few available. No real time has been lost.


Not sure exactly what that means or why, if that's the case, they didn't clarify when it was widely reported that the US was sitting on tens of millions of AZ doses.
   12886. Tom Goes to the Ballpark Posted: April 26, 2021 at 04:40 PM (#6015547)
I think most of the US AZ doses are manufactured, but not packaged for delivery. So if they want to send them to Canada or wherever the vials will have to actually be filled before they can be shipped. Who knows how long that would actually take, but it doesn’t seem like something that would slow things down significantly… if they were motivated to make it happen.
   12887. Hot Wheeling American Posted: April 26, 2021 at 05:04 PM (#6015553)
Pfizer shot #2 on Friday evening. Sore arm and mild fever throughout Saturday, topping out at 100.8. Chills at times. Sunday, temp never got above 99.4, but armpit was sore from swollen lymph nodes. Improvement, but still felt crummy. Monday morning, woke up with the chills, but normal temperature and now feel fine. Late 30s and very handsome.
   12888. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: April 26, 2021 at 05:14 PM (#6015555)
An Alaska state senator filmed arguing with Alaska Airlines staff and police at Juneau International Airport over her refusal to wear a mask before boarding a flight is finding out the hard way that actions have consequences.
...
“We have notified Senator Lora Reinbold that she is not permitted to fly with us for her continued refusal to comply with employee instruction regarding the current mask policy,” Tim Thompson, a spokesperson for the airline, told the Daily News. “This suspension is effective immediately, pending further review.”
...
Reinbold posted to Facebook complaining that “until there is a fair determination” Alaska Airlines should have kept the situation confidential. She further claimed that “corporate covid policies” are potentially unconstitutional: “Alaska Airlines sent information, including my name, to the media without my knowledge nor permission. I do believe constitutional rights are at risk under corporate covid policies.” According to Reinbold, the situation was the fault of “uptight employees at the counter.”
...
According to the New York Times, this isn’t even the first time she’s been banned from something—after Reinbold was reprimanded by Alaska Governor Mike Dunleavy in February for spreading coronavirus misinformation and refusing to respect safety protocols, she was banned from much of the state capitol:

   12889. gef the talking mongoose, peppery hostile Posted: April 26, 2021 at 05:26 PM (#6015560)
Pfizer shot #2 on Friday evening. Sore arm and mild fever throughout Saturday, topping out at 100.8. Chills at times. Sunday, temp never got above 99.4, but armpit was sore from swollen lymph nodes. Improvement, but still felt crummy. Monday morning, woke up with the chills, but normal temperature and now feel fine. Late 30s and very handsome.


If your system underperforms my utter wreck of a self, as appears to be the case (worst for me was maybe a 2-hour malaise that of course might've had nothing whatsoever to do with Pfizer No. 2 some 34 hours earlier), it might be time to start scouting funeral plans.

Signed,

Early 60s, devastatingly dashing & so hip that I burn like the sun
   12890. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: April 26, 2021 at 05:37 PM (#6015562)
Just had Pfizer second shot a few hours ago. I await symptoms.

India has been in serious denial since the beginning of this thing, the Indian newspapers last year for the most part (with some notable exceptions) gleefully expounding that the virus was going to wash over the country without much damage. A favorite was to cite reports of extremely high antibody numbers and very low death totals. It was all obviously a fantasy, but I'm still shocked at what's transpiring now.
   12891. gef the talking mongoose, peppery hostile Posted: April 26, 2021 at 05:45 PM (#6015563)
so hip that I burn like the sun


Or maybe it's my hip that burns like the sun, which is pretty much the case if I walk any distance at all. Jesus.
   12892. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: April 26, 2021 at 06:07 PM (#6015568)
Or maybe it's my hip that burns like the sun, which is pretty much the case if I walk any distance at all. Jesus.
#standingdesk
   12893. catomi01 Posted: April 26, 2021 at 06:17 PM (#6015569)
Just had Pfizer second shot a few hours ago. I await symptoms.


Same...though the arm with the injection is already sore and feels like it weighs 100 lbs...had the same with the first dose, followed by general soreness and a headache (but no fever) the next two days last go around.
   12894. gef the talking mongoose, peppery hostile Posted: April 26, 2021 at 06:25 PM (#6015572)
#standingdesk


#workingfrombedroom

#notlikely
   12895. Howie Menckel Posted: April 26, 2021 at 07:12 PM (#6015580)
I swear that if not for my fortuitously upbeat lifelong medical history, I'd be convinced I got a placebo a month ago instead of a one-and-done J & J shot.

zero symptoms, not even a slightly sore arm the next day. nada. like it never happened. or I never received it.

and as I noted at the time, the adverse reactions, say doctors, actually are an encouraging sign. it means your body has detected the arrival of something unexpected and is rallying 'round the flag. yay, Team Body.

me? I feel like Charlie Brown at Halloween, after the other kids talk about what wonderful treats they just received.

Charlie: "I got a rock."

#metoo
   12896. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: April 26, 2021 at 07:19 PM (#6015581)
#metoo

yeah howie, that'll show those...women who've been sexually assaulted.

way to put that hashtag to work...for you.
   12897. Howie Menckel Posted: April 26, 2021 at 07:46 PM (#6015584)
JFC are you STILL doing this? sometimes a cigar is just a cigar
   12898. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: April 26, 2021 at 08:02 PM (#6015585)
JFC are you STILL doing this? sometimes a cigar is just a cigar

let me run you through my thought process, so you might understand where i'm coming from:

[reads first two sentences]
"whoever wrote this is an insufferable ass"
[looks at screen name]
"of ####### course"
[reads rest of post]
"what. why."
[writes a response]
[deletes a response for being too abusive]
[writes a response]
[deletes a response for not being abusive enough]
[writes a response]
[posts a response]


now, what exactly was your thought process?
   12899. Howie Menckel Posted: April 26, 2021 at 08:18 PM (#6015587)
sigh. I'm amazed that I have to explain this, I really am.

I have noticed in the past week that basically every post here post-vaccination discusses significant side effects. I already found it a bit odd that I didn't have any at all. so I noted that it's a weird place to be - the side effects are briefly unpleasant, but they are a very good sign. I don't know what no side effects mean, I truly don't.

then I recalled the Charlie Brown example, because I felt kind of like he did. everyone else gets something that is a net positive, and I didn't. I got the symptoms equivalent of, well, "a rock."

and as many regulars here know - including you, if you wanted to be honest for just one shining moment - I regularly "sign off" on posts with a hash tag of whatever my closing thought is (and if someone doesn't care for that, it's fine, but it's well understood that I do).

in this case, a non-lunatic would good-naturedly bust my chops with something like "um, that's an.... unfortunate hashtag choice."

and I'd reply, "oh, geesh, you got that right! #blush #brainfart "

but "good-naturedly" is one of many skillsets you don't possess.


so let's make a deal: I won't even post innocuous comments in threads like these anymore.

and if you for some reason still refuse to put me on "ignore," then please at least agree not to stalk and harass me in purely baseball threads as well.

that strikes me as a reasonable request.

#makeitstop
   12900. Snowboy Posted: April 26, 2021 at 09:16 PM (#6015595)
Howie why would you change your life, or the way you go about talking about life, because of a troll that most of us have on ignore?
Did he hassle you about saying "metoo"? I thought that was an unfortunate choice of words, but I'm not going to hassle you about it. It wasn't the central part of your post.
Just put him on ignore, and continue talking about life and baseball as you wish.
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