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Tuesday, April 28, 2020

Empty Stadium Sports Will Be Really Weird

So, with the very likely possibility that baseball and basketball — at minimum — will be played to empty stadiums, it begs the question: Will it be as fun?

And before you answer, think about it for a second. No crowd noise. No intensity that builds for the home team or against the away team. Yes, the scoreboard will tell the tale, but the pressure is cranked up when you have a building full of crazy fans screaming their lungs out.

I get that it’s a business and that the money’s at the ML level, but considering crowds, distance from population centers, and the pleasures of relaxed fandom, I’ve been thinking that we might just run some mLs instead.

Mayor Blomberg Posted: April 28, 2020 at 10:17 AM | 14266 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: business, fans, stadiums

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   14001. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: September 19, 2021 at 05:09 PM (#6040427)
Flip
   14002. Random Transaction Generator Posted: September 19, 2021 at 07:13 PM (#6040441)
Three people who work for me directly were in the 10-15%. I personally know of no one who got Moderna 2 who was not in the 10-15%.


If you feel even the least bit tired or achy from the vaccine, or even if you don't, and your company allows you to take a paid sick day to recover from the vaccine side effects, you bet your bottom dollar that people are going to report that they have terrible side effects from the vaccine and will take that day off.

You'd be stupid NOT to do that if your corporation offers it.
   14003. Mayor Blomberg Posted: September 19, 2021 at 08:51 PM (#6040459)
I personally know of no one who got Moderna 2 who was not in the 10-15%.

Hand raise a la Horshack
   14004. 57i66135 is available to babysit, for a price Posted: September 20, 2021 at 01:08 AM (#6040474)
"why do i only hear about things that happen?"
   14005. Lassus Posted: September 20, 2021 at 07:30 AM (#6040477)
Since you and Lassus misleadingly pretended they didn't exist

You're a liar. I'm still to naive to understand why.
   14006. Lassus Posted: September 20, 2021 at 08:14 AM (#6040480)
In other news, I wonder how the most recent wave is doing. I was at a wedding in Saratoga Springs this weekend. Masking at about 3% at service, 1% at reception. This was literally next door to a Dave Matthews concert, which had about 0% masking, outdoors however.
   14007. Ben Broussard Ramjet Posted: September 20, 2021 at 09:05 AM (#6040483)
My wife went to a 7-hour first aid training course yesterday - a requirement here in Germany if you want to get a driving license. The event was ventilated and masked. If she can sit through 7 hours of training in a mask, despite asthma, and the worst outcome she had at the end was wanting a late-night McDonald's cheeseburger, I'm really not sure what all the fuss is about.
   14008. . Posted: September 20, 2021 at 09:37 AM (#6040485)
You're a liar. I'm still to naive to understand why.


I said exactly what you did and said. I said I had pretty bad side effects and so did a bunch of people I know and then you said your wife and a couple other people you know had "nary a peep" of side effects. For what purpose did or could you have rejoined in that way, other than for the reason I said?

And then after all that, you said that I was a "dishonest hack" for talking about side effects. (*)

The internet and all the tribal battles have taken you to the point in September 2021 where you're calling people who talk about their side effects, liars. A mirror evaluation might be in order at this point. You can't even bring yourself to acknowledge obviously true things lest you -- what? -- lose your tribal cred or something? The Moderna 2 vaccine can have significant side effects and it's still stupid and dumb not to get it and stupid and dumb not to tell people to get it. No one here ever suggested otherwise, especially me. Are you able to hold these two thoughts in your head at the same time?

As to the substance, two of the people you mentioned and all of the people Ronald gaslighted and Horshack-ed about are over 60. Side effects in that age bracket are systematically lower and everyone who pays attention at all to this knows this. The immune system at those ages doesn't respond in the way it does in younger people. The vaccine is designed to provoke an immune response and the immune response essentially is the side effects.(**) Like literally everyone knows this.

(*) That's before Dave and Aunt Bea, the more sane contingent of the board, tried to nicely and diplomatically nudge the mouth-breathers toward acknowledging that the side effects were very real. But apparently you still haven't taken their cue.

(**) So in a sense those of us who got them big should be happy, and through this discussion and further thought that's where I am. A question naturally raised is whether there's a connection between side effects, lack thereof, and other important variables such as breakthrough infection and viral load and seriousness of impact in the event of breakthrough infection. That's still to be determined and hopefully when it is it will be played straight. But I'm happy my system reacted as it did and I'm pretty sure my cells don't really care if someone calls me a liar or a dishonest hack on the internet.
   14009. Lassus Posted: September 20, 2021 at 10:02 AM (#6040489)
You stated Moderna's side effects were a universal, ubiquitous fact that were lucky to be avoided. I made the statements I did to indicate this was not the case, because it's not the case. Neither I nor anyone else said that side effects for Moderna did not exist, and stating that I or anyone else asserted this is a lie.

A question naturally raised is whether there's a connection between side effects, lack thereof, and other important variables such as breakthrough infection and viral load and seriousness of impact in the event of breakthrough infection. That's still to be determined and hopefully when it is it will be played straight.

I mean. This is a lie AND a pre-conspiracy theory wrapped into one.
   14010. . Posted: September 20, 2021 at 10:06 AM (#6040490)
No I said that if your group got nary a peep they were extremely lucky and they were.(*)

This is a lie AND a pre-conspiracy theory wrapped into one.


It's neither. It's pure science, with an answer only determinable through the scientific method. It's nothing but science. To call it a "lie" means you're basically entirely gone. There's no assertion in there that could even be a "lie." Read it again. No assertion.

Two people got Moderna 2, same age, one had bad side effects, the other had nary a peep. Does that indicate anything about likelihood of breakthrough infection or seriousness if breakthrough infection hits? Who would be "conspiring" to do what in that situation?

And it's obviously a very important question going forward, for any number of reasons.

(*) Caveated by the observation that if the lack of side effect response relates to lack of immune response then they weren't lucky. Right now, they're rightly put in the lucky category.
   14011. greenback used to say live and let live Posted: September 20, 2021 at 10:25 AM (#6040492)
I'm guessing there hasn't been much research on vaccine side effects specific to the tens of millions of Americans who had the virus in November 2019.
   14012. Lassus Posted: September 20, 2021 at 11:02 AM (#6040496)
(*) Caveated by the observation that if the lack of side effect response relates to lack of immune response then they weren't lucky. Right now, they're rightly put in the lucky category.

LACK OF SIDE EFFECTS AFTER COVID-19 VACCINATION DOESN'T MEAN IT ISN'T WORKING

Pfizer, Moderna mRNA vaccines are effective even without post-shot symptoms or prior infection, Johns Hopkins study finds
Regardless of symptoms, nearly all participants (953 of 954, or 99.9%) developed spike IgG antibodies 14 or more days following the administration of the second dose. The one person who did not have IgG antibodies was taking an immunosuppressant medication.

Factors that were independently associated with higher median IgG levels (after adjusting for time following the second vaccine dose) were reporting of clinically significant symptoms, age younger than 60, being female, receipt of the Moderna vaccine, and prior SARS-CoV-2 exposure.

"The findings suggest that either spike mRNA vaccine will work well against SARS-CoV-2, even if a person doesn't experience symptoms after vaccination or if they had a prior infection by the virus," says study lead author Amanda Debes, assistant scientist in international health at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health. "This should help reduce anxieties that the vaccines will be less effective in either situation."

The most recent of many, many, many articles stating the same. I haven't seen science that counters this, but I haven't looked. You're more than welcome to post something that gives your repeated skepticism some leverage.
   14013. . Posted: September 20, 2021 at 11:15 AM (#6040497)
I've seen those studies, too. Questions they raise are, among other things, whether the findings will hold as the vaccines wane as well as whether antibodies at t+14 days is the correct measurement for the purpose.(*) The study also doesn't mention the level of spike antibodies the 99.9% created, and that might be an important factor. As I said, the people you mentioned are in the lucky category for now and studies like this are the reason why.(**) But it's too early to tell, definitively.

(*) And note here the "younger than 60" factor, which I mentioned in my post above. If higher antibody levels correlate with being under 60 and side effects correlate with being under 60, it stands to reason that higher antibodies might correlate with side effects. I've also written here that I think I had COVID in January 2020 and the correlation between previous infection and side effects would tend to confirm that -- particularly since I'm on the other side of 50.

(**) You appear to simply be ignoring that part, but whatever.

EDIT: And if you look at the table accompanying the study -- thanks for attaching, Lassus -- it's crystal clear that if you draw a line across at about 6ish antibody level, virtually all of the dots are blue, meaning none/mild. Up through day 75, there's literally one black dot below that level and like 15-20 blue dots. While, yes, it appears that antibodies were generated whether or not there were side effects, there's a pretty clear correlation between amount of antibodies and side effects at levels below 6-ish. As to the best fit lines, there's been a gap the whole time, with the side effects line being higher. I didn't see whether it was a statistically significant gap, or maybe that wasn't even addressed. To the naked eye, it looks like about 10-15%.

   14014. Lassus Posted: September 20, 2021 at 11:32 AM (#6040500)
EDIT: And if you look at the table accompanying the study -- thanks for attaching, Lassus -- it's crystal clear that if you draw a line at about 6ish, a low antibody level and look below it, virtually all of the dots are blue, meaning none/mild. Up through day 75, there's literally one black dot below that level and like 15-20 blue dots. While, yes, it appears that antibodies were generated whether or not there were side effects, there's n pretty clear correlation between amount of antibodies and side effects at levels below 6-ish. As to the best fit lines, there's been a gap the whole time, with the side effects line being higher. I didn't see whether it was a statistically significant gap, or maybe that wasn't even addressed. To the naked eye, it looks like about 10-15%. I know better than either John Hopkins or the author of the study does what their research actually found.


I mean, it's fine to be contrary and think for yourself; but honestly, at this point you are simply being tedious. There's plenty of science. It's here. Show me something other than your feels.
   14015. . Posted: September 20, 2021 at 11:36 AM (#6040501)
The Johns Hopkins people know the questions they answered, and they weren't the ones I posed. People without side effects got some antibodies. That's their question, and it's an entirely sensible one: I got the vaccine and didn't have any side effects, did the vaccine work? The answer is that it did, at least to the extent that "working" means "generating antibodies."

But they got fewer antibodies than people with side effects, in aggregate. Study shows that clearly.

There's no "contrary." Johns Hopkins's primary question was "did people without side effects get antibodies?" The answer is yes. It looks like they got at other questions -- thus the material about levels and correlation between levels and other factors like age, but the abstract doesn't have the details at least not that I saw. Obviously they looked at levels over time, the attached table shows that. If you actually look at the table and draw a horizontal line at around 6, and stop at about 100 days, you'll see every dot but one under that line is blue. And the antibody best fit lines are about 10-15% higher for black, through all time periods.

My guess would be, and it makes perfect sense, is that there will ultimately be a correlation between breakthrough infection and the blue dots below 6 -- which would mean a correlation between no side effects and breakthrough infection. But like I said, we'll see. If antibodies are the important variable and you got the vaccine, would you rather be a blue dot or a black dot? The answer is obvious.
   14016. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: September 20, 2021 at 11:55 AM (#6040505)

It's neither. It's pure science, with an answer only determinable through the scientific method. It's nothing but science. To call it a "lie" means you're basically entirely gone. There's no assertion in there that could even be a "lie." Read it again. No assertion.


"I didn't make an assertion, therefore my statement was pure science" is an interesting take.
   14017. Srul Itza Posted: September 20, 2021 at 01:02 PM (#6040518)
The definition of insanity if responding to . for the 100th time, and expecting anything other than more trollery.

Worse still, by doing so, you pollute the thread for the sane among us who have long since put it on ignore, by repeatedly quoting the trollery.

If you can't stop yourself from responding -- and I believe there may be 12 step programs you should look into to assist you in breaking this addiction -- at least respond by number of post without quoting.
   14018. Lassus Posted: September 20, 2021 at 01:09 PM (#6040519)
Totally fair. My apologies. I'll refrain.
   14019. . Posted: September 20, 2021 at 01:26 PM (#6040523)
It's unclear why you so stridently argued against Moderna 2 side effects to begin with, since they're obviously a thing.
   14020. Lassus Posted: September 20, 2021 at 01:29 PM (#6040525)
Edit: Nah.
   14021. . Posted: September 20, 2021 at 01:48 PM (#6040528)
The side effects. (The side effects of Moderna 2 were very, very real; hit everyone I know, and hit some people worse than it hit me and it hit me pretty bad.)


My wife, 49, and my in-laws, 79 and 83, all got Moderna without a peep of a side effect. That's as much evidence as you have here, so.

Kinda looks like you were questioning my evidence, no? And since my evidence was all personal experience and the directly known personal experience of others, kinda hard to see it as not some species of "you're lying." And then even after that there was the "dishonest hack" stuff. Dishonest isn't real far from "lying," in fact, they're synonyms.

But if you say that isn't really what you meant in some way, ok I guess.
   14022. Mayor Blomberg Posted: September 20, 2021 at 01:48 PM (#6040529)
In happier COVID news, Texas has cracked the Top 20.

OK, that's per capita deaths, but anything that looks sorta like a football poll, we love it.
   14023. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: September 20, 2021 at 01:52 PM (#6040530)
Texas is joining the SEC states that are dominating the Top 20.
   14024. Greg Pope Posted: September 20, 2021 at 02:54 PM (#6040546)
Totally fair. My apologies. I'll refrain.

As someone who agrees with Srul and also has SBB on ignore, thank you.
   14025. Tony S Posted: September 20, 2021 at 03:24 PM (#6040548)
This is funny.

But according to The Guardian, Bolsonaro had "signaled that he will snub New York City vaccination rules," and that he was nowhere near the point of getting a Covid shot. "Once everyone has been vaccinated, I'll decide my future."

Cut to Bolsonaro in New York, looking a bit snubbed as he stands outside an eating establishment, eating a slice of pizza.



I don't believe Bolsonaro when he says he hasn't been vaccinated. But his privileged ass isn't getting him anywhere in NYC.
   14026. 57i66135 is available to babysit, for a price Posted: September 20, 2021 at 04:00 PM (#6040559)
As we look at the possibility of a third mRNA dose, another important question has risen to the surface: Do Pfizer and Moderna people need a third dose? Or just Pfizer people? In other words, is there a meaningful difference between Moderna’s and Pfizer’s protection against COVID-19?
...
The fat bubbles that carry the mRNA are a bit different in their chemical structure. The dose of RNA encapsulated in those fat bubbles is different, too: Moderna has a much higher dose (100 mcg) compared to Pfizer (30 mcg). The vaccines are also given on a different schedule, with Moderna doses four weeks apart and Pfizer three. And finally, a situational difference that still affects the data with which we’re making decisions: Pfizer was approved in the United States (and around the world) a few weeks (or in somce cases months) prior to Moderna.
...
Both vaccines continue to work against hospitalization and death. Will Moderna’s effectiveness eventually start to decline like Pfizer’s? Will Pfizer’s effectiveness against severe disease continue to decline among the general population like we saw in Israel? This, ladies and gentlemen, is causing the heated scientific debate among scientists.
   14027. . Posted: September 20, 2021 at 04:14 PM (#6040563)
There's a big difference between Pfizer and Moderna. Moderna efficacy has barely budged and is still at around 92; Pfizer's has waned pretty dramatically depending on your perspective and definition of the term.
   14028. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: September 20, 2021 at 04:14 PM (#6040564)

I don't believe Bolsonaro when he says he hasn't been vaccinated.

He had COVID already, and while the CDC still recommends that those who were previously infected get vaccinated, not doing so is less crazy than the people who were never infected and decline to get vaccinated.
   14029. MY PAIN IS NOT A HOLIDAY (CoB). Posted: September 20, 2021 at 04:29 PM (#6040567)
He had COVID already, and while the CDC still recommends that those who were previously infected get vaccinated, not doing so is less crazy than the people who were never infected and decline to get vaccinated.


Sure, but if you gave *me* the choice of "chance of super-immunity power" or "no chance of super-immunity power" ... I'm showing up for my jabs wearing a Superman costume.
   14030. glitch Posted: September 20, 2021 at 04:34 PM (#6040568)
Totally fair. My apologies. I'll refrain.

As someone who agrees with Srul and Greg Pope, and today reactivated a long-dormant lurker account specifically to put SBB on ignore, thank you.
   14031. Greg Pope Posted: September 20, 2021 at 05:16 PM (#6040577)
Moderna has a much higher dose (100 mcg) compared to Pfizer (30 mcg). The vaccines are also given on a different schedule, with Moderna doses four weeks apart and Pfizer three. And finally, a situational difference that still affects the data with which we’re making decisions: Pfizer was approved in the United States (and around the world) a few weeks (or in some cases months) prior to Moderna.


I have no clue on the effectiveness of the higher dosage or the earlier approval. But I did read something that suggested the time between the doses may be the issue. In the UK they decided to give more people the first dose of Pfizer (I think) and put off the second dose. The rationale was that it would be better to have more people with one dose than fewer people with two. So may people in the UK had a much longer time between doses. It seems that people with doses 1-2 months apart had longer lasting protection.

I don't remember where I saw that, though. Probably somewhere in this thread.
   14032. Hombre Brotani Posted: September 20, 2021 at 06:06 PM (#6040587)
I've got . on ignore, so I'm glad someone else quotes this:
I know better than either John Hopkins or the author of the study does what their research actually found.
This is an amazing sentence, and my life is better... well, worse, but more interesting for having read it.
   14033. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: September 20, 2021 at 06:15 PM (#6040591)

I feel obliged to note that he didn't actually write that. That was Lassus' paraphrase.
   14034. Hombre Brotani Posted: September 20, 2021 at 06:33 PM (#6040594)
I feel obliged to note that he didn't actually write that. That was Lassus' paraphrase.
Ah, thank you. Still worth it.
   14035. Lassus Posted: September 20, 2021 at 07:36 PM (#6040599)
Thank you, Dave.
   14036. MY PAIN IS NOT A HOLIDAY (CoB). Posted: September 21, 2021 at 02:00 AM (#6040634)
What in the ever-#############-WTF???

The Westers are both fully vaccinated but stay masked indoors to protect their four-month-old son, who is immunocompromised. At Hang Time, a server asked them to take the masks off.

“Our waitress came over, sat down next to me and said, ‘Our manager told me to come over because I am nicer than he is … But this is political and I need you to take your masks off,’” Natalie said.

When they said they did not want to do so, they were asked to leave.
...
Hang Time has a “no mask” policy. Its owner, identified only as Tom, said: “I feel the overall reaction with masks is ridiculous in the United States right now.”

Speaking to CBS DFW, he said the “no mask” rule was part of the restaurant dress code and he reserved the right to refuse business.

Link
@Mayor Blomberg ... which part of this state of madness do you live in?
Lisa is in Houston, BDC is in Arlington, I'm in Wichita Falls, you?
   14037. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: September 21, 2021 at 07:14 AM (#6040640)
I find all of the angst about masks in restaurants from both sides to be weird. I guess if you only pull down your mask to take a bite or a sip and then immediately pull it back up, it still provides some protection. But probably very little in a restaurant full of others who aren’t masking. This is not to excuse the owner, who is being a complete a-hole and showing the mentality that is contributing to Texas’ current COVID surge.

Meanwhile people in SF were freaking out because the mayor wasn’t wearing her mask indoors at a bar, sitting at a table with a drink in front of her. I think she technically violated the SF mask policy when she stood up and danced next to her table without putting her mask on, but that’s not how the policy is being enforced anywhere.
   14038. Lassus Posted: September 21, 2021 at 09:17 AM (#6040659)
Yeah, I'm just avoiding restaurants in general, unless there's outdoor seating. Winter will be interesting, though.

In better news, is there some light at the end of the tunnel for Florida? Or is is just blips or nothing?
   14039. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: September 21, 2021 at 09:27 AM (#6040663)
@Mayor Blomberg ... which part of this state of madness do you live in?
Lisa is in Houston, BDC is in Arlington, I'm in Wichita Falls, you?


I'll let the Mayor speak for himself, but this took place in Rowlett which is one of the suburbs on the eastern side of Dallas and about 20 miles from my front door in one of the North Dallas burbs. Frankly, I wouldn't have been surprised to see that it happened here.
   14040. sanny manguillen Posted: September 21, 2021 at 09:45 AM (#6040668)
Now 32 days since Bill Freehan died. The longest deathless period among MLB players this century had been 25 days, in both 2004 and 2009, so if this period holds up without tardy death reports it's pretty unusual. There's a Facebook page called "Baseball Players Passing" that's also noticed this streak. The fellow keeps track of baseball-related deaths and posts photos of graves.

Deaths reported through 9/20 (BB-Ref):

2017 - 63
2018 - 75
2019 - 76
2020 - 76
2021 - 70
   14041. Mayor Blomberg Posted: September 21, 2021 at 01:17 PM (#6040709)
@Mayor Blomberg ... which part of this state of madness do you live in?


I'm also in Houston. We have a few no masks allowed places down here, nothing I'd ever have gone to anyway.
   14042. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: September 21, 2021 at 01:23 PM (#6040711)

In better news, is there some light at the end of the tunnel for Florida? Or is is just blips or nothing?

Things do seem to be improving. Hospitalizations and new cases appear to have peaked in mid-April, and are down about 50% from those levels. But as I noted a few days ago, reported deaths, which lag those metrics, are still at record levels for the state.

Also on a positive note, it seems like the recent wave has resulted in an uptick in vaccinations. 96% of 65+ folks have gotten a first dose and 84% of those have gotten two, so it appears a decent number of people have gotten their first dose within the past few weeks. They're now back above the national average in terms of overall vaccination rate, and ahead of NY in terms of seniors being vaccinated. They were never that bad on the 65+ vaccination rate, but I hope that getting that rate up above 95% will help limit the severity of whatever might come in the winter.
   14043. 57i66135 is available to babysit, for a price Posted: September 21, 2021 at 07:07 PM (#6040786)
HermanCainAward, one of the fastest-growing subreddits on Reddit.com, is exactly what it sounds like: an archive of those who have been hospitalized and/or killed by COVID and didn’t believe the disease could harm them. It is named after Republican Herman Cain, the onetime candidate for president who succumbed to COVID some weeks after attending a Trump rally in Tulsa, Oklahoma, at which he was photographed maskless in the summer of 2020. Cain’s Twitter account would continue to downplay the virus even after his death.
...
I began reading because I wanted to understand how pro-social impulses could get coarsened to the point where advocates for lifesaving measures like vaccines—people who think of themselves as the good guys—are literally celebrating deaths. I’m no closer to understanding that, but something very strange did happen because I read these records: Despite reading loads of statistics and case histories and news articles about the pandemic, r/HermanCainAward became my most thorough source on what it’s like for a person to die from COVID. I understand the disease more deeply because I have read so many viciously curated “stories” in which ordinary people blathering about politics end up narrating their decline from it—with help from their families—as optimistically as they can. They are younger than COVID patients used to be. Trying to put a positive spin on things. Soliciting prayers. Generally avoiding conversions. They do not expect to die. It’s relentless reading. And it keeps ending up the same way. Only health care workers have seen this many people decline and die.


   14044. 57i66135 is available to babysit, for a price Posted: September 21, 2021 at 07:09 PM (#6040787)
Then there is this week’s trending COVID news out of Newberg, Oregon: “Newberg school staffer shows up in blackface, placed on leave.” What does that have to do with the novel coronavirus, you might ask? Newberg Graphic reporter Ryan Clarke’s article explains: “A staff member at Mabel Rush elementary school in Newberg showed up to work in Blackface on Friday, allegedly saying she was dressed as Rosa Parks and protesting a vaccine mandate for teachers.” Ah.
...
Anyway: Half of modern conservatism now consists of showing up at a school board meeting about “critical race theory” to say that the United States never oppressed anyone. The other half is comparing yourself to Rosa Parks later in the same meeting because you had to wear a mask.

   14045. . Posted: September 21, 2021 at 07:28 PM (#6040790)
I began reading because I wanted to understand how pro-social impulses could get coarsened to the point where advocates for lifesaving measures like vaccines—people who think of themselves as the good guys—are literally celebrating deaths. I’m no closer to understanding that,


Well, that one's simple -- they aren't really the good guys.(*) To be sure, they likely hang out much of the day in various echo chambers that "validate" their "goodness," but that's why echo chambers suck.

(*) These rituals -- and I've seen some of these collages -- are kind of like a doxxing-cum-anti-funeral. Creepy.
   14046. Tony S Posted: September 21, 2021 at 07:38 PM (#6040791)
is there some light at the end of the tunnel for Florida? Or is is just blips or nothing?


I'd place my bets on blips-or-nothing.

Gov. Ron DeSantis appointed a new state surgeon general Tuesday who has written essays questioning the safety of COVID-19 vaccines, the effectiveness of masks and favoring hydroxychloroquine


   14047. Tony S Posted: September 21, 2021 at 07:50 PM (#6040794)
Reported cases in MD have drifted down over the last few days -- back to triple figures again yesterday (974) for the first time since 9 September.

I don't know if that means our (relatively) high vaccination rate has served as an effective firewall against delta, but we keep not seeing the big explosion that's been predicted for months, and we're a couple of weeks into the school year now. Hope the trend continues.
   14048. Tony S Posted: September 21, 2021 at 07:57 PM (#6040797)
The J&J red-headed stepchildren finally get some encouraging news.

A two-dose version of Johnson & Johnson's coronavirus vaccine provides 94% protection against symptomatic infection, the company said Tuesday -- making a two-dose regimen of J&J's Janssen vaccine comparable to a two-dose regimen of Moderna's or Pfizer's.

Plus, the company said, adding a booster dose to a single shot of the vaccine raised immunity even more, and should also protect people strongly against infection.


The usual caveats apply (internal study, etc.) but it's promising.
   14049. Lassus Posted: September 21, 2021 at 08:31 PM (#6040805)
September 18, 2021 at 06:33 AM (#6040249) "echo chamber"
September 19, 2021 at 12:25 PM (#6040402) "echo chambers"
September 21, 2021 at 07:28 PM (#6040790) "echo chambers... echo chambers"

Huh. Maybe you're right.
   14050. Fancy Pants Handle struck out swinging Posted: September 21, 2021 at 11:14 PM (#6040847)
Statement from one of the moderators of r/HermanCainAward which I think is relevant to the article posted above:

A gentle reminder to any journalists who will/want to write about this sub: NONE OF US WANTS THIS SUB TO EXIST.

I normally hesitate to speak in blanket statements, especially regarding a group that is now over 278k members at the time of this writing. Any member could have any of a myriad of reasons to join, but I'd like to think there is one commonality that threads itself throughout. Take it all in... the nominations, awards, the occasional brutal redemption. IPA posts (which has been a nice addition) and daily rant threads. We aren't here because we like to point and laugh like some common internet trolls, we're here BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT TO ####### BE HERE. These people are YOLOing themselves (and loved ones) into the void for lack of any reason or common sense, and at some point, this has become the social media equivalent of gawking at a very preventable car wreck.
   14051. smileyy Posted: September 22, 2021 at 02:26 AM (#6040855)
I'm a regular reader of /r/HermanCainAward and feel no guilt at all about the schadenfreude. The people dying are trying their best to get others killed. I have no sympathy for them.
   14052. . Posted: September 22, 2021 at 06:25 AM (#6040856)
BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT TO ####### BE HERE.


YES YOU DO WANT TO ####### BE HERE OTHERWISE YOU WOULDN'T ####### BE HERE AND YOU WOULDN'T IN A MILLION ####### YEARS ####### BE AT /R/OSCARTAVARESAWARD OR /R/JOSEFERNANDEZAWARD AND EVERYONE KNOWS THE MAIN REASON YOU'RE ####### HERE IS BECAUSE YOUR ENTIRE SELF-IDENTITY IS WRAPPED UP IN THE WORLD KNOWING YOU'RE NOT A PROLE.

Oh, and the vaccinated spread Covid-19. If you've gone out into the world unmasked and un-distanced (*) after you've gotten your vaccine, you've exposed people to potential cases of Covid-19 and if one of those people is unvaccinated, you've exposed them to potential death. All you've done if you've gotten vaccinated is reduce your potential damage and (maybe) become less of a vector. There's no sense whatever that you've become a non-vector, and you may have even become a worse vector because the vaccine is suppressing symptoms that might otherwise have kept you from going out into the world.

(*) Actually, even if you've gone out into the world masked, you can spread Covid-19 as the masks aren't remotely infallible.
   14053. Bret Sabermatrician Posted: September 22, 2021 at 07:38 AM (#6040860)
It seems SC is on the other side of the Delta peak, at least in terms of cases. Deaths are probably peaking either this week or next.

I guess it's starting to burn out of easy hosts. The number of people who get a test, test positive, then yell at their doctor that it's a lie is staggering. My wife has daily stories of this. Why even visit a doctor if you don't feel well, if you're just going to ignore them?

I'm sure our governor will spin this surge as a win since only some kids died. He's been on a kick of saying parents don't have to mask their kids for school because they alone know what's best for them. I guess that means we can beat them or not use car seats since parents are the ultimate arbiter of child care... but I think I'm going to avoid the former just in case (mine is too old for car seats anyway).
   14054. Tony S Posted: September 22, 2021 at 08:23 AM (#6040869)
Why even visit a doctor if you don't feel well, if you're just going to ignore them?


Yes, funny how they suddenly insist on Western medicine bailing them out of their situation after spending months bleating about conspiracies and running instead to voodoo "treatments" like horse paste. This would be strictly their problem if they weren't hogging ICU beds in the process. But their willful ignorance is damaging all of us -- especially the health-care workers we all depend upon.

Meanwhile, in Montana...

The man has been a patient at Billings Clinic for nearly a month, most of that time in the hospital’s intensive care unit. He is among other patients, room after room of them, with the same grim tubes inserted down their throats. They have covid-19 — the vast majority unvaccinated against the virus, the hospital says. Visitors generally aren’t permitted in these rooms, but the man’s mother comes most days to gaze through a glass window for the allowed 15 minutes.

This all happened Friday. He was dead, at age 24, by Sunday morning.


Montana chased off a county health official the other day for the crime of advocating vaccines.

The hospital announced it may soon implement “crisis standards of care,” which basically means it will ration its equipment, staff and medicine, giving preference to those it can most likely save, regardless of vaccination status. It’s an ugly system, abhorred by those who will wield it, with tiebreakers in place to decide who potentially lives and dies. Other hospitals in Montana have taken similar steps.

An overcrowded hospital also means that a person ― say, one injured in a car crash in rural eastern Montana and needing advanced hospitalization ― won’t be able to get that care at Billings Clinic.


This is the real cost of all the conspiracy-mongering from Covid-deniers. I'm sure there are those who argue that it's worth it, or that it's no big deal.

He's been on a kick of saying parents don't have to mask their kids for school because they alone know what's best for them.


This has been their coordinated talking point, yes. It's popped up from the leaders of other like-minded states. Guess they also believe parents know what's best for other people's kids, too.
   14055. bunyon Posted: September 22, 2021 at 10:08 AM (#6040892)
Why even visit a doctor if you don't feel well, if you're just going to ignore them?

Have you seen how Americans deal with heart disease and lung cancer?
   14056. MY PAIN IS NOT A HOLIDAY (CoB). Posted: September 22, 2021 at 10:15 AM (#6040894)
@Tony S
I'll see your Montana and raise you a Florida

A medical professor who is opposed to mask and vaccine mandates, attacked concern over the pandemic as “Covid mania” and likened the eating of fruit and vegetables to the benefits of vaccination has been named as Florida’s new surgeon general.
...
At a press conference on Tuesday to mark his appointment, Lapado said he would “reject fear” in his dealing with the pandemic. “Florida will completely reject fear,” he said. “Fear is done.”

Like DeSantis, Ladapo is opposed to mask mandates and has said that getting vaccinated is a personal choice that individuals have to make. “There is nothing special about them compared to any other preventive measure,” he said about vaccines, despite widespread evidence that unvaccinated people are overwhelmingly more likely to become seriously ill or die from Covid.

“It’s been treated almost like a religion and that’s just senseless. We support measures to good health. That’s vaccination, losing weight, exercising more, eating more fruits and vegetables, everything.”

Link
   14057. Bret Sabermatrician Posted: September 22, 2021 at 10:20 AM (#6040897)
14055. bunyon Posted: September 22, 2021 at 10:08 AM (#6040892)
Have you seen how Americans deal with heart disease and lung cancer?


I give a minimal benefit of the doubt to that due to the addictive quality of these products.

I guess owning the libs is addictive, but not in quite the same manner as cigarettes, caffeine, or eating disorders.
   14058. bunyon Posted: September 22, 2021 at 10:33 AM (#6040901)
Just saying people ignore their doctors all the time. And are generally self-destructive. It's easy (and serious) to point that out in anti-vaxxers but it's also classic human behavior.
   14059. . Posted: September 22, 2021 at 10:33 AM (#6040902)
It's an ... interesting ... to and fro amongst the tribes. Cons own the libs by not getting vaxxed, which is really, really, really ####### stupid; libs own the cons by doing group dances on their graves, which is really, really, really ghoulish and creepy. While Twitter and Facebook and a few other websites stir the pot, give the tribes a gathering place for intra-tribal emotional succor, and walk away with a ton of money.

At day's end, the whole circus is just one big pile of detestable.
   14060. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: September 22, 2021 at 10:33 AM (#6040903)
This is the real cost of all the conspiracy-mongering from Covid-deniers. I'm sure there are those who argue that it's worth it, or that it's no big deal.

Greg Abbott (Gov.-TX, (R)) would tell them they should have exercised the personal responsibility to not get into a car crash far from a hospital with some open capacity, so it's really their own fault to begin with.
   14061. Tony S Posted: September 22, 2021 at 10:37 AM (#6040906)
Have you seen how Americans deal with heart disease and lung cancer?


Fair point, but I'm not aware of any large number of heart or lung patients spending their lives bashing the medical profession, either, or turning to quack "cures" to deal with their issues. It's more at the level of (not so) benign auto-neglect. And of course, heart disease and cancer are not transmissible.

Looks like we're not too far from having the vaccines approved for under-12 kids. Hopefully that happens well enough before Thanksgiving that it significantly blunts any holiday waves.
   14062. Lassus Posted: September 22, 2021 at 10:40 AM (#6040908)
I guess causing death is the same as reacting to death. There's "death" in both. Both sides!
   14063. . Posted: September 22, 2021 at 10:44 AM (#6040911)
"Reacting to death." OK, then.

Vaccinated people are spreading Covid, Lassus. We vaxxed did our duty to ourselves and our communities, to be sure, and the unvaxxed didn't, but it's not true that we can't spread Covid. We can spread it and we have been spreading it, including to the unvaxxed.(*) Stop deluding yourself. If a vaxxed person spreads Covid to an unvaxxed person, the vaxxed person hasn't "caused" the unvaxxed's death. That's a ridiculous use of the term and makes the person who asserts it look ridiculous. It's misinformation.

What you probably mean to say is that it's far more unethical and damning for an unvaxxed person to spread it to a vaxxed person and that I entirely agree with, of course. But it really has nothing to do with strictly "cause." In context, the unvaxxed had a clear ethical duty to get vaxxed. They failed miserably.

(*) Had the unvaxxed done their part, the spread wouldn't really matter because everyone would be vaccinated, but they didn't and so it does. That's the real problem with the unvaxxed. But at the end of the day, they wind up paying virtually all the cost of their abject ####### stupidity.

   14064. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: September 22, 2021 at 10:46 AM (#6040912)
I've been checking out /r/HermanCainAward the last couple weeks. The people profiled are the worst of the worst. Insane right wing meme sharing, shitting on anyone who thinks covid isn't fake, sharing posts about the vax being evil, etc. Then they're suddenly in the hospital.

Now that it is happening to them, they invariably post "kids, this thing is real. this isn't something to joke about." Although a few keep calling it a fake to the bitter end.

Then they die, and their friends and family post about what a great, honorable, and caring person they were.
   14065. bunyon Posted: September 22, 2021 at 10:55 AM (#6040918)
Fair point, but I'm not aware of any large number of heart or lung patients spending their lives bashing the medical profession, either, or turning to quack "cures" to deal with their issues. It's more at the level of (not so) benign auto-neglect. And of course, heart disease and cancer are not transmissible.

Most of the unvaxxed covid patients sick and dying are seeing the light in regard to vaccines. Just as most 60 year old heart attack patients regret their diet and lack of exercise (self-criticism here). My only point is, doctors/health care say "Eat right/less and exercise" and tens of millions of people are like, meh.

It's more serious with vaccines because covid is transmissible. But self-destructive rejection of sound medical advice is very, very common. And probably a lot of us do it. I know I do.
   14066. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: September 22, 2021 at 10:59 AM (#6040920)
Then they die, and their friends and family post about what a great, honorable, and caring person they were.

Followed by a link to a GoFundMe page.
   14067. . Posted: September 22, 2021 at 11:00 AM (#6040922)
They very well might have been great, honorable, and caring pre-Covid. And of course, normal people typically don't go out of their way to speak ill of the dead, even if the deceased was something of a shitbag.
   14068. Tony S Posted: September 22, 2021 at 11:00 AM (#6040923)
But self-destructive rejection of sound medical advice is very, very common.


This is true, for sure. But I think there's a big difference between "overhaul your lifestyle" and "take 15 minutes and get a damn shot".

If there were an anti-cancer or anti-heart-disease vaccine, we'd see those diseases *far* less than we do.
   14069. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: September 22, 2021 at 11:07 AM (#6040927)
Sorry to post such a long rant from HCA, but it is really spot-on.

https://www.reddit.com/r/HermanCainAward/comments/psyp4w/for_those_who_say_the_hca_are_immoral_lets_see/


For those who say the HCA are immoral. Let’s see how we got here.

Grrrrrrrr.

For everyone who is appalled beyond description at what a bunch of sickos we are for having created this sub Reddit, let’s review how it has all transpired.

In the early days of the pandemic we had a President who, because he was worried it would make him look bad, said that COVID was going to go down to zero cases soon and it would disappear “like a miracle.” He was supported by a huge right wing media machine that basically said it was all a hoax, or “just the flu”, while actively kneecapping any actions taken and protocols instituted to slow the spread.

Taking their cues from the same President and RW media machine, countless people decided that masks were the most horrific oppression ever and that having to temporarily alter their lives in any way, in order to save fellow citizens from dying a horrible death, was a form of tyranny they simply would not tolerate.

Have repeatedly had to listen to people, with no medical or scientific training, say that doctors, infectious disease experts and the CDC are all liars. While also being told by these people that, amongst other possibilities, a medicine for lupus, a horse dewormer, ingesting bleach and sticking a UV light up your ass are all viable ways to fight COVID.

Have watched in horror as Republican governors across the nation, who don’t want to upset Trump, have not only not done anything to protect people, but have taken actions that have dramatically increased the rate of COVID transmission.

Defying all odds, the country was presented with a vaccine created in record time by infectious disease experts with some of the most sophisticated research technology on earth. It was then offered free of charge to every citizen 12 and older, only for tens of millions of people to refuse to take it because of (insert bullshit reason here). All while they created memes comparing it to slavery and the Holocaust, making Dr. Fauci out as the greatest mass murderer since Josef Stalin, and calling the rest of us sheep for doing the socially and morally responsible thing.

Are now in the midst of a variant that is, again, overwhelming hospitals. Only this time it is heavily favoring anti vaxxers as far as who it cuts down. A variant that we might not have had as severely if these ######## had gotten vaccinated in the first place.

And, despite 18 months of having our lives turned upside down and almost 700,000 dead, we are STILL being inundated with messages from various right wing personalities, religious groups, and social media, that COVID is a big Bill Gates conspiracy, the vaccine is the mark of the beast, vaccinated people are responsible for the causing Delta variant, and all kinds of other bullshit that utterly defies comprehension.

Sorry if the HCA offends some of your delicate sensibilities. You had well over a year to get your #### together and be responsible adults during a historic time of national crisis and you blew it time after ####### time. And now the chickens have come home to roost.

This sub Reddit is a consequence of the anger and frustration rest of us feel by repeatedly suffering because of your hatred, your ignorance, your irresponsibility, your lack of compassion and empathy and your childish defiance that you all wear like badges of honor. At least until you end up in the ICU on a ventilator, then suddenly it’s all “COVID IS NO JOKE!”and begging for Prayer Warriors and people to donate to their GoFundMe to pay for their hospital bills.

All these things, as well as others too numerous to mention, have made this dark place we’re in possible and has allowed for the creation of something like the HCA. So, if you’re looking for someone to be outraged at, just take a look in a mirror.

You created this, now live with it. #### your feelings.

   14070. . Posted: September 22, 2021 at 11:13 AM (#6040929)
For everyone who is appalled beyond description at what a bunch of sickos


Not sickos -- creeps and weirdos.

This sub Reddit is a consequence of the anger and frustration rest of us feel


Assuming your "anger" and "frustration" are real and genuine -- the "offense" you routinely take is anything but -- most of us don't deal with anger and frustration by becoming inhuman ghouls and creeps. The sub reddit is a "consequence" of your need to find emotional succor in your ghoulishness and creepiness, although in a way, the internet of which the sub reddit is a part is a cause of it.
   14071. greenback used to say live and let live Posted: September 22, 2021 at 11:30 AM (#6040938)
This is true, for sure. But I think there's a big difference between "overhaul your lifestyle" and "take 15 minutes and get a damn shot".

Flu shot uptake is something like 50%, even though it's generally easy to get.

I have not followed the subreddit, but I have seen similar stories in MSM over the last six months. One common element of these storylines is the patient requesting the vaccine on his/her deathbed, which suggests that one (admittedly small) part of the problem is that the deniers secretly think they have a treatment in the event they contract the virus. Then the doctor gets to explain to the dying ####### that's not how it works.
   14072. MY PAIN IS NOT A HOLIDAY (CoB). Posted: September 22, 2021 at 11:41 AM (#6040940)
This is true, for sure. But I think there's a big difference between "overhaul your lifestyle" and "take 15 minutes and get a damn shot".

The ###### up thing is that not only are these ######## screwing up health care today, for patients who need care that they can't get because the unvaxxed are hogging the beds, they're screwing our health-care system for the future. We're going to bleed out nurses and doctors into the future.
This unvaxxed Delta wave has really shattered them.
   14073. SoSH U at work Posted: September 22, 2021 at 11:47 AM (#6040942)
That screed works under the assumption the only people who find the subreddit offensive are antivaxxers. That's certainly not true.
   14074. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: September 22, 2021 at 11:55 AM (#6040943)
Just quickly looking at the CDC site, it looks like excess deaths are comparable or higher this summer compared to last in a lot of states that had summer waves last year. Does this mean the winter wave will be comparable/worse again as well?

Is anyone here up for irresponsibly speculating for me?
   14075. 57i66135 is available to babysit, for a price Posted: September 22, 2021 at 11:57 AM (#6040944)
most of us don't deal with anger and frustration by becoming inhuman ghouls and creeps
"lock her up. lock her up. lock her up."
   14076. . Posted: September 22, 2021 at 12:00 PM (#6040945)
"lock her up. lock her up. lock her up."


Inter-tribal. Doesn't compute outside the tribes, anymore than the unhinged rant in 14069 does.
   14077. Lassus Posted: September 22, 2021 at 12:01 PM (#6040946)
#14074 - Maybe this is mass armchair psychology, but couldn't it possibly just be being reported better, more accurately this time around?
   14078. MY PAIN IS NOT A HOLIDAY (CoB). Posted: September 22, 2021 at 12:03 PM (#6040947)
That screed works under the assumption the only people who find the subreddit offensive are antivaxxers. That's certainly not true.

From that subreddit ...
Don't be a dick. Don't be gleeful. Don't root for Nominees to be Awarded, especially the Facebook schlubs whose only crime was taking up residence in the misinformation echo chamber.

Do not include your opinions in post titles. Keep it neutral.

No nominations by proxy - the person making public anti-vax statements is the only candidate for nomination and award. Not their spouse, family member, etc. Posts that would otherwise nominate by proxy are subject to removal by mods. In some cases the "Grrrrr" flair will be allowed in place of a nomination by proxy.


The subreddit shouldn't exist, but it shouldn't exist BECAUSE WE HAVE ####### VACCINES!

I've fresh out of ##### to give for the morans.
   14079. SoSH U at work Posted: September 22, 2021 at 12:09 PM (#6040949)
From that subreddit ...


From that screed: You created this, now live with it. #### your feelings.

That assumes the only people who find this distasteful are antivaxxers. It's simply not true, even if you personally have exhausted your ##### supply.

   14080. smileyy Posted: September 22, 2021 at 12:17 PM (#6040952)
These aren't the unvaccinated being righteously shat upon in HCA. It's the people who are literally killing other people by spreading anti-vaccine, anti-mask rhetoric and then leaving orphaned children behind because they thought they were too privileged (lots of "privileged" looking folks on there if you get my coffee) to ever have anything bad happen to them.

Have kids? Get the ####### shot. Otherwise you're a #### parent. Want to perpetuate the stress of a virus that has resulted in the deaths of over 800,000 people? You're a #### person.
   14081. Ben Broussard Ramjet Posted: September 22, 2021 at 12:17 PM (#6040953)
Trying to get in one or two quick trips to the UK next month, before winter proper hits and Covid + flu probably makes circulation a lot less appealing. I haven't seen my parents, brothers, nephews or niece in person since March 2020, or my 96-year-old grandmother in over two years, not to mention friends scattered around the UK, so after my second dose kicked in fully a few weeks ago, now seems like the best window.

Here's the oddity: The UK is currently harder-hit than Germany by the Delta wave - it spread in the UK much earlier and the UK removed mask mandates and distancing requirements in June, while Germany is still gradually unwinding theirs, in part because vaccination progress was initially a lot slower across the EU. However, going from Germany to the UK, I need to take a PCR test on top of my proof of vaccination. Going from Germany to the UK, proof of vaccination is enough, as long as I also tell them where I'll be after I arrive.
   14082. Mayor Blomberg Posted: September 22, 2021 at 12:18 PM (#6040954)
Greg Abbott (Gov.-TX, (R)) would tell them they should have exercised the personal responsibility to not get into a car crash far from a hospital with some open capacity, so it's really their own fault to begin with.

He's right. It was my stupid choice to accept a position in Texas.
As for FL's sew surgeon general, good! I've not forgotten the 2000 election.

That assumes the only people who find this distasteful are antivaxxers.

If the sub is distasteful, what is the operative word for the people whose deaths bring it into existence and the collateral damage that it causes?
   14083. smileyy Posted: September 22, 2021 at 12:20 PM (#6040956)
Since it was mentioned, there are anti cancer vaccines being developed. (One of?) The first, the HPV vaccine, will prevent most cases of cervical cancer in women.

Guess how the right-wing anti-vax crowd feels about this vaccine?
   14084. MY PAIN IS NOT A HOLIDAY (CoB). Posted: September 22, 2021 at 12:20 PM (#6040957)
From that screed: You created this, now live with it. #### your feelings.

That assumes the only people who find this distasteful are antivaxxers. It's simply not true, even if you personally have exhausted your ##### supply.


Of course, that very likely is a reference to this
#### Your Feelings
   14085. SoSH U at work Posted: September 22, 2021 at 12:39 PM (#6040964)
If the sub is distasteful, what is the operative word for the people whose deaths bring it into existence and the collateral damage that it causes?


Hooray, you're better than the worst people.

Sorry, but as much as I loathe the destructive, anti-vax rhetoric, I can't find anything useful in taking glee in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people.

Of course, that very likely is a reference to this
#### Your Feelings


That would be my guess. Doesn't change anything.
   14086. Tony S Posted: September 22, 2021 at 12:47 PM (#6040967)
Flu shot uptake is something like 50%, even though it's generally easy to get.


If we had an anti-heart-attack vaccine and the uptake was 50%, the impact would be immense.

When you're dealing with non-contagious afflictions, herd immunity isn't really relevant. You take what you can get. And a 50% reduction in heart disease -- even a 20% reduction -- would be phenomenal.
   14087. . Posted: September 22, 2021 at 01:44 PM (#6040980)
If the sub is distasteful, what is the operative word for the people whose deaths bring it into existence


The peoples' deaths didn't "bring it into existence," the people who posted images and commented and keep doing so brought it into existence -- and keep it in existence.
   14088. Mayor Blomberg Posted: September 22, 2021 at 01:55 PM (#6040983)
Guess how the right-wing anti-vax crowd feels about this [HPV] vaccine?


It promotes premarital sex!
   14089. . Posted: September 22, 2021 at 02:11 PM (#6040987)
Want to perpetuate the stress of a virus that has resulted in the deaths of over 800,000 people? You're a #### person.


The vaccinated carry and spread the virus.(*) Apparently, that fact is one of those things that simply can't be faced by a certain faction of people and not only can't it be faced, that faction appears to insist on stridently believing and pronouncing the opposite.

(*) From the abstract of a recently-published Oxford study:

With Delta, infections occurring following two vaccinations had similar peak viral burden to those in unvaccinated individuals.


This is elementary Covid 101 at this point, to any informed and educated person. It's eminently possible, far more likely than not, that some of the people whose graves are being gleefully danced upon at HCA caught the virus from a vaccinated person.

   14090. greenback used to say live and let live Posted: September 22, 2021 at 02:20 PM (#6040989)
Sorry, but as much as I loathe the destructive, anti-vax rhetoric, I can't find anything useful in taking glee in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people.

I find it weird that anyone really cares. This particular variant of Gegenschadenfreude, I guess, seems like an extremely niche concern for a handful of bored pearl-clutchers on social media.
   14091. SoSH U at work Posted: September 22, 2021 at 02:26 PM (#6040991)
I find it weird that anyone really cares. This particular variant of Gegenschadenfreude, I guess, seems like an extremely concern for a handful of bored pearl-clutchers on social media.


It sounds more organic when you call it virtue signaling.
   14092. greenback used to say live and let live Posted: September 22, 2021 at 02:36 PM (#6040993)
You mean the subredditors? Virtue signaling on a mostly anonymous message board, where accounts drop like flies, seems less compelling of a narrative than simple Schadenfreude, which is a universal phenomenon, especially when the person experiencing the Schade is an ässhole.
   14093. Mayor Blomberg Posted: September 22, 2021 at 02:41 PM (#6040995)
It sounds more organic when you call it virtue signaling.

Proclaiming one's being scandalized by the HCA subredit is virtue signaling? Yeah, I cosign.
   14094. SoSH U at work Posted: September 22, 2021 at 02:41 PM (#6040996)
You mean the subredditors?


No, I meant your 14090, in reference to me.

I find taking joy in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people to be bad form. You obviously feel otherwise. Bully for you.

   14095. 57i66135 is available to babysit, for a price Posted: September 22, 2021 at 02:45 PM (#6040998)
Sorry, but as much as I loathe the destructive, anti-vax rhetoric, I can't find anything useful in taking glee in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people.
in the interest of technicality: people at hermancainawards aren't "taking glee in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people"; they're actually taking glee at each individual person's death, repeated hundreds of thousands of times.
   14096. . Posted: September 22, 2021 at 02:52 PM (#6040999)
Yes, life in 1988 would have been so much better if instead of AIDS quilts on the National Mall, there had been online subreddits wherein the poor doomed souls were mocked and their graves danced upon and their deathbed pictures posted, for not taking the simple and essentially free precaution of wearing a jiffy.
   14097. smileyy Posted: September 22, 2021 at 02:57 PM (#6041002)
No, they'd be the HIV deniers telling others to not wear a condom.
   14098. smileyy Posted: September 22, 2021 at 02:58 PM (#6041003)
It's not virtue signaling for me. I genuinely feel that way about HCA winners.
   14099. Eddo Posted: September 22, 2021 at 02:58 PM (#6041004)
I find taking joy in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people to be bad form.

It's not joy in the deaths of "hundreds of thousands", it's joy in the deaths of a few dozen (hundred? I don't know, I've never visited that subreddit) people who have been publicly anti-COVID-vaccine.

Still, to each his own on how repulsive you find it, but the subreddit is targeted at less than 1% of all COVID deaths.
   14100. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: September 22, 2021 at 03:05 PM (#6041006)
Just quickly looking at the CDC site, it looks like excess deaths are comparable or higher this summer compared to last in a lot of states that had summer waves last year. Does this mean the winter wave will be comparable/worse again as well?

Is anyone here up for irresponsibly speculating for me?
It's the delta wave. And now that we have so many people vaccinated or already infected, it's very unlikely this winter will be worse than last winter, in the US anyway.
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