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Tuesday, April 28, 2020

Empty Stadium Sports Will Be Really Weird

So, with the very likely possibility that baseball and basketball — at minimum — will be played to empty stadiums, it begs the question: Will it be as fun?

And before you answer, think about it for a second. No crowd noise. No intensity that builds for the home team or against the away team. Yes, the scoreboard will tell the tale, but the pressure is cranked up when you have a building full of crazy fans screaming their lungs out.

I get that it’s a business and that the money’s at the ML level, but considering crowds, distance from population centers, and the pleasures of relaxed fandom, I’ve been thinking that we might just run some mLs instead.

Mayor Blomberg Posted: April 28, 2020 at 10:17 AM | 14266 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: business, fans, stadiums

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   14201. Sleepy was just “inspecting the bunker”, y’all Posted: September 27, 2021 at 11:44 AM (#6041903)
I don't know if it was a thing overall, but all of my relatives who winter down in Florida got their vaccines there, before returning to Canada.
I spent a lot of time in Florida last spring for a flight test campaign at Tyndall, and despite having a Californian cell phone number I was pinged daily with a link to get signed up for a vaccine. As opposed to CA, where they made you put in the effort to find a place with an available appointment.

They also opened up to non-FL resident military vets even under 65 way earlier than other states.

As much as I hate desantis, his vaccine rollout strategy seemed like it was much better than Newsome’s, at least before he lost his mind and started trying to kill his constituents.
   14202. Lassus Posted: September 27, 2021 at 11:54 AM (#6041904)
As opposed to CA, where they made you put in the effort to find a place with an available appointment.

NY was like this as well, even upstate where I am and the people per square mile is somewhat less than NYC.

   14203. JJ1986 Posted: September 27, 2021 at 12:08 PM (#6041906)
Ben Garrison, a right-wing cartoonist known for his opposition to vaccines and his extremely flattering drawings of former President Donald Trump, told Gizmodo late Sunday that he contracted covid-19 and has been sick for about two weeks. But allegedly getting covid hasn’t changed Garrison’s mind about modern medical science.
Gizmodo is sure getting a lot of direct quotations from a nutjob out there.
   14204. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: September 27, 2021 at 12:14 PM (#6041907)
Apparently Hawaii has had over 100% of Seniors vaccinated (1-shot) for at least a couple months. How is that possible? Most likely either third shots or out of state residents, but possibly also people getting 2 shots registered as a first shot twice. Anyway, there is data that implies out-of-state residents are being counted in the total, which thus could also apply to Florida.

This NYT link now shows several states where 100% (or more) of the over-65 population have had the first shot. Strongly implies something is going on with the counts.
   14205. Cropper Posted: September 27, 2021 at 12:39 PM (#6041912)
It is pretty much certain that there's a good number of people with both shots who are being counted twice in the "at least one dose" group and not at all in the "fully vaccinated" group. There's been a pretty consistent 10 percentage point gap between those two groups across all population subdivisions. Even the ≥65 group, which has had over 90% in the "at least one dose" group for a while now. It's just not possible that those two groups continue to increase at almost exactly the same rate, with so few people remaining to be added to the first group.
   14206. Lassus Posted: September 27, 2021 at 12:43 PM (#6041914)
Gizmodo is sure getting a lot of direct quotations from a nutjob out there.

Yeah, I caught that as well. I looked through the comments to see if someone had asked them about it, why he had exchanged emails with them directly, but nothing that I saw.
   14207. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: September 27, 2021 at 12:52 PM (#6041915)
In Hawaii, 98.9% of the age group 65-74 have supposedly been fully vaccinated, so there really isn't any room for it just to be second shots counting as first shots twice.
   14208. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: September 27, 2021 at 01:13 PM (#6041921)
Thanks everyone. It's not surprising that the vaccine data is far from perfect. I still assume that FL has a better vaccination track record than the worst states, given it tracks pretty closely with political leanings and Florida is still a purple(ish) state.

What’s the vax rate for non-Miami Florida?

As a % of total population

FL overall - 62%
Dade County (Miami) - 78%
FL excluding Dade - 59%

If you exclude Broward (69%) and Palm Beach (64%) counties in addition to Dade, then you get 57% for the "rest of Florida". That's still a smidge better than the national average, but maybe they're a bit below average avg if you assume they're overcounting for the reasons we disussed above. Still a lot better than AL (42%), MS (43%), WY (41%), ID (41%), I have to believe.

If FL is overcounting the vaccinated and Northeastern states are undercounting for the same reason (some of our people got vaccinated in FL), then that might help explain the diverging outcomes.
   14209. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: September 27, 2021 at 01:19 PM (#6041923)

Hawaii could also have foreign visitors, right?

It's also possible the underlying population counts (i.e. the denominators) are off a bit (maybe the population data is a few years old), although I don't think that would fully explain things.
   14210. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: September 27, 2021 at 01:26 PM (#6041925)
It's also possible the underlying population counts (i.e. the denominators) are off a bit (maybe the population data is a few years old)
Definitely a possibility, but yeah, probably not enough to explain it.

Most age-stratified population estimates are still coming from the 2010 census as updated by births/deaths, etc. We will have more accurate data once they get the 2020 census data out. Vermont for example was estimated to have a population of 624,000 by 2020 (based on 2010 census numbers, plus updates), when the actual number appears to be closer to the 2020 census number 643,000. Most states won't have that large of a difference (3%), but it could still be significant. Once the 2020 census age-band numbers come out next year (they say, anyway), we can make a much better approximation of excess deaths by state.

edit: I looked closely at Vermont because their CDC excess death numbers are way too high based on covid deaths, and that implies their baseline is being set too low. I haven't totally figured out the exact reason for that, but it appears to be in large part because Vermont is one of the oldest states, and one of the most rapidly aging states, has low covid deaths generally, and had unusually low rates of older people dying in the last couple years. Probably also the fact that it probably has more people than assumed by the 2010 census (with updates) is playing a role as well. The 2020 census releases now have total population by state as well as adult population by state, so we do know that the portion of the population over 18 is pretty much exactly what was expected, so the "unexpected" growth in population is not just happening in older adults.
   14211. 57i66135 is available to babysit, for a price Posted: September 27, 2021 at 01:58 PM (#6041937)
Gizmodo is sure getting a lot of direct quotations from a [prominent, relatively mainstream, and recently newsworthy] nutjob out there.

ftfy.
Yeah, I caught that as well. I looked through the comments to see if someone had asked them about it, why he had exchanged emails with them directly, but nothing that I saw.
maybe the guy is suffering from withdraw after he got kicked off twitter because he hasn't been seeing enough hate mail.
   14212. Srul Itza Posted: September 27, 2021 at 02:11 PM (#6041938)
Something I picked up today from my NY Times The Morning email briefing (emphasis added):

In an article this month for Breitbart, the right-wing website formerly run by Steve Bannon, John Nolte argued that the partisan gap in vaccination rates was part of a liberal plot. Liberals like Biden, Nancy Pelosi, Anthony Fauci and Howard Stern have tried so hard to persuade people to get vaccinated, because they know that Republican voters will do the opposite of whatever they say, Nolte wrote.

His argument is certainly bizarre, given that Democratic politicians have been imploring all Americans to get vaccinated and many Republican politicians have not. But Nolte did offer a glimpse at a creeping political fear among some Republicans. “Right now, a countless number of Trump supporters believe they are owning the left by refusing to take a lifesaving vaccine,” Nolte wrote. “In a country where elections are decided on razor-thin margins, does it not benefit one side if their opponents simply drop dead?”


Two reactions:

1. Just when you thought the right wing could not get any crazier . . .

2. I just wish the Democrats actually possessed that level of Machiavellian thinking,
   14213. greenback used to say live and let live Posted: September 27, 2021 at 03:04 PM (#6041959)
I spent a lot of time in Florida last spring for a flight test campaign at Tyndall, and despite having a Californian cell phone number I was pinged daily with a link to get signed up for a vaccine. As opposed to CA, where they made you put in the effort to find a place with an available appointment.

OTOH my 79-yo mother spent the winter in FL, and damn it was hard finding her a shot. I spent a lot of time clicking around the various county health department websites, which were roughly on par with some Geocities pages. My mom was staying with my sister on the gulf coast, so she didn't really have an established FL address, but she did have a FL phone number on her cell. It seemed the whole state was out of shots, so she ended up getting a shot back in KY a week after her snowbird phase ended in March.
   14214. GregD Posted: September 27, 2021 at 05:10 PM (#6042005)
Apparently Hawaii has had over 100% of Seniors vaccinated (1-shot) for at least a couple months. How is that possible? Most likely either third shots or out of state residents, but possibly also people getting 2 shots registered as a first shot twice.

EXTREMELY SMALL SAMPLE SIZE ALERT:

Both my dad and stepmom got boosters in August by walking into the clinic, and the person doing the shots said something about they'd need to code the boosters funny since it wasn't a code but they were giving boosters to anybody who wanted one. If that's common, then I'd guess there's a decent number of "first shots" that are as you say "third shots."
   14215. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: September 28, 2021 at 08:45 AM (#6042089)
Miami-Dade 90% vax rate highest in Florida, but suspected to be significantly inflated.

What we don’t know is how many of our residents are the ones who have gotten the vaccine because a tremendous about of tourists have gotten the vaccine and many of those tourists have claimed zip codes that belong to us as their addresses,” Marty said


One red flag indicated that something was amiss: A breakdown by county zip codes shows some population samples surpassing 100% vaccination.

“When we surpassed 100% I realized there was a data problem,” Gelber said.

People age 18 and over in the 33122 area code had more than a 2,700% vaccination rate, according to the data.

Why is that zip code significant?

“That’s the airport,” Gelber said.
   14216. Tony S Posted: September 28, 2021 at 09:02 AM (#6042092)
We're one step closer to vaccines for children.

"The FDA takes very seriously the importance of getting vaccines, shown to be safe and effective in children," Dr. Anthony Fauci, the nation's leading infectious disease expert, told MSNBC's "Morning Joe" show. "I would imagine in the next few weeks they will examine that data and hopefully give the O.K. so we can start vaccinating children hopefully by the end of October."


The end of October sounds a bit optimistic to me, given that it cuts very close to "the next few weeks", but if they can pull that off and get the vaccines going by then, we'll have a lot of potential disease vectors blunted by Thanksgiving.

And those parents who care about their kids will be able to start breathing easier.
   14217. Lassus Posted: September 28, 2021 at 02:46 PM (#6042150)
When we surpassed 100% I realized there was a data problem.
I mean, that's a championship quote right there.
   14218. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: September 28, 2021 at 07:29 PM (#6042201)

Thanks AuntBea, that makes sense. I am pretty sure that Dade County still has a higher vax rate than the rest of the state -- when the state had a positive test rate of 20%, Dade was only at 12.6%.
   14219. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: September 29, 2021 at 09:36 AM (#6042305)
The US is currently probably experiencing more daily excess deaths than the rest of the rich countries, combined.
   14220. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: September 29, 2021 at 10:06 AM (#6042307)
The US is currently probably experiencing more daily excess deaths than the rest of the rich countries, combined.


Is this driven by vaccination rates? Or population health/pre-existing conditions? Or behavior? Or record keeping? Or poor health care system outcomes? I don't have an Economist subscription so couldn't read the article.

I should know better than to look, but obviously the Twitter replies to this are full of people of all stripes blaming all different factors.
   14221. Kiko Sakata Posted: September 29, 2021 at 10:25 AM (#6042310)
Is this driven by vaccination rates? Or population health/pre-existing conditions? Or behavior? Or record keeping? Or poor health care system outcomes? I don't have an Economist subscription so couldn't read the article.


The article blames it on vaccinations - there's not all that much to the article beyond the graph that I think you can see without a subscription. That said, comparing the U.S. to Europe in vaccination rates pretty closely mirrors the Florida vs. the Northeast debate here. Overall U.S. vaccination rates are lower than everywhere else. But in the aggregate they're not THAT much lower (the Economist says 67% vs. 75%, I think).

I think the aggravating factor is that U.S. vaccination rates are correlated geographically - there are parts of the U.S. that have vaccination rates similar to, maybe even better than a lot of Europe (New England and much of the northeast; maybe Hawaii). And there are parts of the U.S. that have frighteningly low vaccination rates.

I also suspect that your second, third, and fifth suggestions all correlate extremely strongly with vaccination rates. The unvaccinated are overwhelmingly rural and rural folks tend to be more likely to be overweight, have generally poorer health, and probably have poorer access to medical care. And, of course, the anti-vax crowd and the anti-mask crowd is the same crowd.
   14222. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: September 29, 2021 at 10:33 AM (#6042312)
I think the aggravating factor is that U.S. vaccination rates are correlated geographically - there are parts of the U.S. that have vaccination rates similar to, maybe even better than a lot of Europe (New England and much of the northeast; maybe Hawaii). And there are parts of the U.S. that have frighteningly low vaccination rates.


I hadn't thought of this sort of cluster effect.
   14223. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: September 29, 2021 at 10:46 AM (#6042314)
I think the aggravating factor is that U.S. vaccination rates are correlated geographically - there are parts of the U.S. that have vaccination rates similar to, maybe even better than a lot of Europe (New England and much of the northeast; maybe Hawaii). And there are parts of the U.S. that have frighteningly low vaccination rates.
There's another factor--at least in the UK the percentage of older people vaccinated is significantly higher, and few children are vaccinated, so the overall averages don't fully reflect the risk protection afforded by who is getting the vaccine.
   14224. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: September 29, 2021 at 11:20 AM (#6042318)
Is this driven by vaccination rates? Or population health/pre-existing conditions? Or behavior? Or record keeping? Or poor health care system outcomes?

Yes.
   14225. Greg Pope Posted: September 29, 2021 at 11:20 AM (#6042319)
Anecdotal and all, but a person I worked closely with for the past 8 years died from COVID the other day. She was the director of her department, and fairly intelligent, but she watched a lot of Fox News (or something similar). She was the primary caregiver for her 93-year old mother. She didn't get the vaccine because she heard that getting the vaccine caused you to shed the virus and she didn't want to put her mother at risk.

She got COVID, which she then most likely passed to her mother, because she was the only one taking care of her. She went on a ventilator 3 weeks ago. She never made it off. Her mother died 3 days before she did. So she had to see her mother die from a preventable disease that she gave her. Although I guess I'm not sure that she knew that her mother died. But this is because she believed what she saw on TV. It's so sad.
   14226. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: September 29, 2021 at 11:22 AM (#6042320)
The cluster effect:

https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/28/politics/red-covid-republican-states/index.html


The result of all of this misinformation and politicization of Covid-19 is stark. The 12 states with the highest case rate for every 100,000 people are all run by Republican governors. The 13 states with the highest hospitalization rate per 100,000 residents are all run by Republican governors. The 15 states with the highest percentage of deaths per 100,000 are all run by Republican governors.

   14227. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: September 29, 2021 at 11:51 AM (#6042327)
The cluster effect

A far cry from the early days when the GQP states were all high-fiving each other and haw-hawing at NY/NJ, declaring Covid a librul disease that wouldn't happen in <our state> because the good Christian people in <our state> believe in freedom and personal responsibility or whatever.
   14228. Tony S Posted: September 29, 2021 at 12:24 PM (#6042334)
Well, isn't this lovely.

In August 2021, a preliminary but large-scale study investigating brain changes in people who had experienced COVID-19 drew a great deal of attention within the neuroscience community.


The team found marked differences in gray matter – which is made up of the cell bodies of neurons that process information in the brain – between those who had been infected with COVID-19 and those who had not. Specifically, the thickness of the gray matter tissue in brain regions known as the frontal and temporal lobes was reduced in the COVID-19 group, differing from the typical patterns seen in the group that hadn’t experienced COVID-19.


There are still those who approach getting infected with Covid as some kind of binary result -- if you don't die, you have a "mild" case, and once you get over it, no harm, no foul. It's not a mainstream opinion anymore, but anti-vaxxers and Covid-minimizers love to tout that 99% (or 98.4%, or 99.7%, or whatever) survival rate as some sort of checkmate, and continue to push for "natural" herd immunity.

You don't want to get this virus. You really don't. Once that virus is in your body, it's going to do what it's going to do. And your chances of your life being pretty much ruined are well north of 1%.
   14229. 57i66135 is available to babysit, for a price Posted: September 29, 2021 at 12:45 PM (#6042341)
it's not covid, but parts of this story may sound familiar:
A Illinois man had the unfortunate distinction of becoming the first case of human rabies seen in the state in almost 70 years, health officials reported this week. Unfortunately, like most sick victims of rabies, the man did not survive. He had turned down preventive treatment a month earlier.
...
There is no effective treatment for rabies once symptoms begin, and only a handful of people are known to have survived the final stage of infection. But there is a widely available vaccine that can work even after a confirmed exposure to the virus, so long as it’s taken in the weeks before symptoms start.

   14230. Mayor Blomberg Posted: September 29, 2021 at 01:05 PM (#6042346)
The 15 states with the highest percentage of deaths per 100,000 are all run by Republican governors.


Is Cilizza talking about 2021 in that claim? Or, by this point, even the past 12 months? The Top 15 states for the course of the pandemic still include NY, NJ, RI, a red state with a D governor (LA) and a blue state with sn R governor (MA). The Top 25 states for infection rate include RI (8), KY (14), WI (24). All per Worldometer
   14231. Kiko Sakata Posted: September 29, 2021 at 01:11 PM (#6042350)
There are still those who approach getting infected with Covid as some kind of binary result -- if you don't die, you have a "mild" case, and once you get over it, no harm, no foul. It's not a mainstream opinion anymore, but anti-vaxxers and Covid-minimizers love to tout that 99% (or 98.4%, or 99.7%, or whatever) survival rate as some sort of checkmate, and continue to push for "natural" herd immunity.


Yeah, I saw someone on Twitter who commented "I got COVID and I didn't even get sick. I just lost my sense of smell. Nothing else." and the replies were full of variations of "So you had no symptoms except for one symptom that involved losing one of your five senses?" with the occasional "Um, the sense of smell is controlled by your brain. You had neurological damage, dude!"

I get that smell feels like maybe the least important sense, but I have to think that losing my sense of smell would freak me the hell out.
   14232. Greg Pope Posted: September 29, 2021 at 01:17 PM (#6042352)
I get that smell feels like maybe the least important sense, but I have to think that losing my sense of smell would freak me the hell out.

To be fair, it depends on whether the loss is temporary or permanent. If you get COVID and lost your sense of smell for 10 days but had no other symptoms, and your sense of smell came back, well that really doesn't seem too bad.

Now, if that indicated neurological damage and there was a long lasting effect, that's different.
   14233. bunyon Posted: September 29, 2021 at 01:18 PM (#6042353)
Given that we have a crappy sense of smell, I think it's fair to say it is our least important sense.

That doesn't mean it isn't really important and neurological damage bad.

I taught a student once who had no sense of smell after an accident when they were young. We eventually concluded that they were at some risk in a chemistry environment where, often, the first sign of trouble is smell.
   14234. Mayor Blomberg Posted: September 29, 2021 at 01:19 PM (#6042354)
bunyon -- same for in the kitchen!
   14235. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: September 29, 2021 at 01:29 PM (#6042355)
#14225, that's a terrible story, and infuriating.

A friend of mine posted on Facebook yesterday that her brother-in-law just died of COVID at age 42. That's my age. Based on the pictures, he was a healthy looking dude and an Air Force veteran. I don't know whether he was vaccinated (if he died of COVID at 42, it's statistically unlikely that he was). Either way, I just don't understand the people who are so cavalier about their willingness to contract this disease.
   14236. Lassus Posted: September 29, 2021 at 02:24 PM (#6042371)
Some variation of whatabout the flu or similar horseshit, usually.

I don't know if my sense of smell is good or bad, but a permanent loss of smell and TASTE sounds (almost) worse than death. Yes, I'm sure I'd adjust, but that (after actual death) is what freaks me out the most.
   14237. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: September 29, 2021 at 02:33 PM (#6042374)
The lost of taste and smell is a huge one. Kirk Herbstreit said in early June that he was at 5 months and counting without taste or smell. He sure seems pretty fit and healthy to me.

Given that football fans as a group lean right, you'd think a couple of them may have taken pause. I guess not.

   14238. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: September 29, 2021 at 02:45 PM (#6042378)
Some variation of whatabout the flu or similar horseshit, usually.

ThIs So-CaLlEd "ViRuS" hAs A 99.9% sUrViVaL rAtE!1!!

I'm glad to say my mom, who turns 75 next week and lives in one of the longest-running and hottest Covid hotspots in the country, finally got the first vaccine recently. She wanted to get it and has been almost religious about masking up in any public setting, but she also has a history of cardiac issues that are reported (from credible sources) to be a potential side effect, so she's been hesitant. Finally made an appointment with her favorite cardiologist who had moved his practice about an hour away and after a 3-month wait time to see him, finally had her appointment recently. After he had reviewed her recent medical history she asked about getting the vaccine and he said, "Oh, [name], you must get the vaccine." That's all she needed to hear. Within an hour of returning home, she was at a nearby pharmacy getting the shot.
   14239. base ball chick Posted: September 29, 2021 at 03:45 PM (#6042388)
i know 8 people who have died of Covid. i know more who had severe covid and are now in the very nice "recoivered" category seeing as how the govt only cares about live in or out of hospital and hospitalized die or not die. the word "recovered" is what is called "non-specific"

Husband is "exposed" (hahaha) to a lot of rightys who are males between 18 and 50 who think they are perfect and covid is just a cold virus because only 3 out of 1000 die (or something like that). and yeah, most of them got no idea whether or not they got any high blood pressure or heart dz because they don't/won't go to doctors. and there are like 6 of them who got covid and didn't go to a doctor or hospital who have not gone back to what they were before covid. a couple of them lost their wind and a couple more never got their sense of smell back and a couple more - well, something happened to their brain because there is something wrong with ability to deal with stuff like what someone just said and routes to drive and where places are.

And i haven't even got to the folks I know who got long covid including a 28 year old guy who was an athlete before catching covid last YEAR and he's still not OK

do the rightys deny brain fog/brain damage too? i wonder what % of americans had covid and their brains are no longer what they were even if they were not real too particular sick - or even no symptoms??? what is going to happen to all those folks in the future? What about all the people under 18 who got covid? did it do anything to THEIR growing brains?

i really REALLY do not understand the rightys wanting to pretend covid either doesn't exist or is just a cold. best i know colds don't kill half a million people a year. i mean the hospitalz are packed with people sick with SOMEthing and don't nobody go to a hospital for a cold. people are dying of SOMEthing and they think it is what? a cold? the people are not really dead? we now got non-dead as well as un-dead?

   14240. 57i66135 is available to babysit, for a price Posted: September 29, 2021 at 03:56 PM (#6042393)
What about all the people under 18 who got covid? did it do anything to THEIR growing brains?
yup.

this is what we call an "unknown/unknown":
Reports that say that something hasn't happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns—the ones we don't know we don't know. And if one looks throughout the history of our country and other free countries, it is the latter category that tends to be the difficult ones.

-- from the pathologically obfuscatory mind of donald rumsfeld.
   14241. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: September 29, 2021 at 04:06 PM (#6042396)
By CDC's numbers, and once the final amounts are determined, there will be easily over 900,000 excess deaths so far through end of this week. Even with a slightly higher baseline for expected deaths we are very near 900,000 now. At this point we are probably expected to hit the million mark by the end of 2021, once all the numbers are crunched (which will take a couple additional months).
   14242. Srul Itza Posted: September 29, 2021 at 04:11 PM (#6042397)
i mean the hospitalz are packed with people sick with SOMEthing and don't nobody go to a hospital for a cold. people are dying of SOMEthing and they think it is what? a cold? the people are not really dead? we now got non-dead as well as un-dead?


That's just it; they don't believe anything. That is how you get these buffoons showing up at hospitals demanding entry to ICU (without any protection) so they can prove the wards are empty and everybody is just making it up.

It is this sort of assholery that makes people populate sites like the Herman Cain Awards with no sense of guilt or shame.
   14243. 57i66135 is available to babysit, for a price Posted: September 29, 2021 at 04:13 PM (#6042398)
One agent told me he’d heard from another agent at his agency that a certain veteran MLB player and possible future Hall of Famer paid some of his teammates to get the vaccine. (He gave me a name; because I haven’t been able to run down the story satisfactorily, I’m not going to use it here. Sorry.)

“He basically offered to give other players money if they went out and got vaccinated so they could get over the hump,” the agent said. “And I think it worked. I think there were guys who didn’t [want it] who said, ‘well if you’re going to pay me then I will,’ and it got them over it.”

Just as I was about to lose hope and accept this trip as a waste of your hard-earned money, dear subscriber, the PR guy waved over an outfielder who I’d specifically requested to talk to because he’d been on the MLB club’s opening day roster
...
Then the outfielder described the sales push that took place on the team plane to the first series of the year, where Team X would receive the J&J shot. He said that one veteran player, who he did not initially name, got on the plane’s intercom and made an announcement. “It was like, ‘Hey, get the vaccine, we got three more guys to hit 85 percent.’ And then guys got the vaccine and everything was OK.”
...
“Right before we landed,” the outfielder said. “[He said], ‘We have a couple guys that didn’t say yes or no to the vaccine, so we’d strongly appreciate it.’ Might have been a little bribery in there.”

He gave me a knowing smile as he said that last part. Bribery! Wow. I hadn’t even told him what I’d heard and he’d offered it up on his own.

I flagged down one of my other targets, a pitcher.

The pitcher had been on the fateful team flight this spring, and he remembered it similarly —a veteran player took to the intercom to urge three more players to get vaccinated. “Once they smelled how close they were [to the threshold], the politicking got pretty hard,” the pitcher said.


   14244. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: September 29, 2021 at 04:27 PM (#6042403)
i mean the hospitalz are packed with people sick with SOMEthing and don't nobody go to a hospital for a cold.

They don't believe the hospitals are packed. Fox News is saying they weren't so it must be true.

EDIT: Coke to Srul.

That's just it; they don't believe anything. That is how you get these buffoons showing up at hospitals demanding entry to ICU (without any protection) so they can prove the wards are empty and everybody is just making it up.

I remember back in March/April 2020, when some of them claimed that the hospitals couldn't really be full because there were very few cars in the parking lot. Except that the hospitals weren't allowing visitors or elective procedures, so of course the parking lots were going to be pretty empty.
   14245. 57i66135 is available to babysit, for a price Posted: September 29, 2021 at 04:54 PM (#6042411)
Novant Health, a large hospital system in North Carolina, announced on Monday that it had been forced to fire just 175 employees after they refused to go along with its new policy requiring staffers to be vaccinated against the coronavirus. By any objective measure, this should have been an encouraging success story about an employer successfully nudging its workforce to make a responsible decision. Novant told the Washington Post that 99 percent of its 35,000-strong staff had been inoculated. The week before, it had suspended 375 holdouts, but most of them ultimately chose to get their shots and keep their jobs.

And yet, this was the headline the Washington Post decided to slap on the piece: “N.C. hospital system fires about 175 workers in one of the largest-ever mass terminations due to a vaccine mandate.” The tone of doom and turmoil might easily have led a Twitter or Facebook user casually skimming the news to believe that some poor medical center had just been decimated by defections, when in fact the story was just the opposite.
...
You can find similar coverage decisions by other outlets covering vaccine mandates. Apparently some editors have decided it’s just a fine idea to blast out the tidbit that Americans are quitting their jobs in protest of public health measures, then follow up with the essential context that, actually, the resistors are pretty much a blip. Here’s CNN reporting that 153 employees at Houston Methodist had resigned or were fired rather than accept a shot; only toward the bottom of the story do we learn that the hospital employs around 25,000 people. Another: “39 quit Kansas health system over vaccine mandate: report,” the Hill informs us in a bit of news aggregation. If you click through to the original Kansas City Star article, you’ll quickly find that amount is less than 1 percent of all staff.

   14246. Eddo Posted: September 29, 2021 at 05:18 PM (#6042414)
people are dying of SOMEthing and they think it is what? a cold? the people are not really dead? we now got non-dead as well as un-dead?

Plenty believe that people are not really dying. My wife showed her father the CDC total death numbers back in February or so, and his response was, "Yeah, where did you get those numbers? Of course the CDC would say that." They think it's a big conspiracy, though I'm not quite sure what they think the libruls or big government or whatever is gaining out of it.
   14247. smileyy Posted: September 29, 2021 at 05:23 PM (#6042415)
I guess the libs are gaining control over the population?

They've been dying to own the libs for a long time. Now they're literally dying to own the libs.

It's a pity we can't pile 800,000 bodies outside the door of every Covid denier.
   14248. Mayor Blomberg Posted: September 29, 2021 at 05:35 PM (#6042416)
I'm not quite sure what they think the libruls or big government or whatever is gaining out of it.


Same thing they got by blowing up the Twin Towers, an excuse to steal our freedom. It's also probably part of a plan to put lipstick on that Osamacare law.
   14249. Tony S Posted: September 29, 2021 at 05:58 PM (#6042426)
Yes, most of the employee "threats" to quit their jobs over vaccines turned out to be pretty empty. Those who did quit self-weeded out. I certainly wouldn't want to be treated by a health-care "professional" who believes that vaccines are the mark of the beast or whatever.

It's happening too in police forces. Given that there's probably considerable overlap between the sets of "cops who refuse vaccines" and "cops who behave badly", I'd consider that a net win.

   14250. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: September 29, 2021 at 06:39 PM (#6042434)

I guess the libs are gaining control over the population?

There's no real logic to it, but yeah, they think that the Left was just using the pandemic as an excuse to attack Trump / destroy Trump's economy / make voting laws that were easier to cheat / exert more control over people's lives.
   14251. Tony S Posted: September 29, 2021 at 06:53 PM (#6042438)
Anti-vaxxers are just misunderstood.

Idaho doctor Ashley Carvalho was threatened by a COVID-19 patient's family member after she refused to prescribe Ivermectin or Plaquenil. Drugs that the FDA warns should not be used to treat or prevent COVID-19.

Carvalho said that the family members called her an incompetent doctor.

One family member threatened her with physical violence and said, "I have a lot of ways to get people to do what I want them to do, and they're all sitting in my gun safe at home."



We need to be nice to them, and maybe they'll behave better.
   14252. smileyy Posted: September 29, 2021 at 10:48 PM (#6042484)
Cops refusing to be vaccinated tells me all I need to know about their interest in public safety.
   14253. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: September 30, 2021 at 07:43 AM (#6042506)
My college roommate is a prosecutor in a red state. He knows there are cops who have lied to him about being vaccinated before sitting in a room/office/car with him, and he later found out they were unvaccinated. It makes him really angry but he’s not in a place where he can really do anything about it.
   14254. jmurph Posted: September 30, 2021 at 08:12 AM (#6042510)
My college roommate is a prosecutor in a red state. He knows there are cops who have lied to him about being vaccinated before sitting in a room/office/car with him, and he later found out they were unvaccinated.

Yeah the main groups I absolutely don't believe about vaccination status are cops and American professional sports leagues.
   14255. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: September 30, 2021 at 11:26 AM (#6042543)
Cops are one of the most exposed professions to something like covid, and it is killing them by the hundreds.

Sad, like many aspects of this mess.
   14256. smileyy Posted: September 30, 2021 at 11:36 AM (#6042545)
#1 killer of cops. Where's the union fighting to protect it's members?
   14257. 57i66135 is available to babysit, for a price Posted: September 30, 2021 at 11:42 AM (#6042546)
#1 killer of cops. Where's the union fighting to protect it's members?
they're still in hiding after what happened on january 6th.
   14258. Srul Itza Posted: September 30, 2021 at 01:47 PM (#6042562)
Plenty believe that people are not really dying.


The crazy has gotten even better -- Now, the line is that people are dying because Hospitals are killing them, to make COVID look real or something. Thus, you get the righties now telling people not to go to the Hospital if they are sick, and to take their relatives out.

There is no top or bottom to the crazy.
   14259. Tony S Posted: September 30, 2021 at 01:51 PM (#6042565)
Cops are one of the most exposed professions to something like covid, and it is killing them by the hundreds.


Some LEOs are in it for the public service aspect (great), some LEOs are in it for the paycheck (fine), some LEOs are in it for the power-tripping.

I would bet that covid is disproportionately thinning out the ranks of the latter.

Self-own.
   14260. Mayor Blomberg Posted: September 30, 2021 at 02:06 PM (#6042567)
Srul. the hospitals are killing people because they get money for covid deaths. That's a zombie lie from last year that made it to this thread or its predecessor.
   14261. MY PAIN IS NOT A HOLIDAY (CoB). Posted: September 30, 2021 at 02:12 PM (#6042571)
[edit] Gah, Mayor Blomberg beat me to it. Although, there is a slight difference between last year and the present.
Then, the crazies were saying that hospitals were calling anyone they could who died with a co-morbidity a "COVID death" for the sweet, sweet extra COVID cash; now they're saying the hospitals are actually causing death by refusing patients "proven" treatments (like Ivermectin, etc) while "forcing" people onto ventilators, etc.
So, the crazy has escalated somewhat, I think.
   14262. Starring Bradley Scotchman as RMc Posted: September 30, 2021 at 02:35 PM (#6042575)
The 15 states with the highest percentage of deaths per 100,000 are all run by Republican governors.

Is Cilizza talking about 2021 in that claim? Or, by this point, even the past 12 months? The Top 15 states for the course of the pandemic still include NY, NJ, RI, a red state with a D governor (LA) and a blue state with sn R governor (MA). The Top 25 states for infection rate include RI (8), KY (14), WI (24). All per Worldometer


It's probably a good idea to ignore anyone who views Covid in partisan terms, left or right.
   14263. Mayor Blomberg Posted: September 30, 2021 at 03:32 PM (#6042587)
The incident is the latest example of a growing trend around the globe of anti-vaccine activists, sovereign citizens, and conspiracy theorists attempting to undermine medical staff at hospitals claiming that vaccines don’t work and in some cases claiming that hospital staff are purposely working to prevent COVID-19 sufferers from recovering.


of a sovereign citizen intervention in Dear Old Donegal.
   14264. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: September 30, 2021 at 03:44 PM (#6042591)
Why? From what I've learned on internet: It is all part of one grand conspiracy of left-wing authoritarianism. Biden/Clintons/New World Order is forcing the CDC/WHO/Big Pharma to follow their covid lie. Science and medicine have long been part of the lie, with radical concepts such as evolution, climate change, and now covid. The masks and vaccines are initial steps to put the populace under control. They think we're in the early stages of nazi Germany, and 3 years from now, right wingers will be wearing red stars on their coats, and riding cattle cars to the gas chambers. All while we import millions of brown immigrants, because brown immigrants are a guaranteed liberal vote.


   14265. base ball chick Posted: September 30, 2021 at 03:57 PM (#6042595)
ah am sick (hahaha) n tard of them iggnerint folks

look - no one can FORCE an adult to be admitted to the hospital. or even to go to the ER in the first place. they say you got covid, you disbelieve in covid, just leave the ER. they want ivermectin go to the feed store. they want hydroxychloroquin get it off one of them internetz dokterz

no one can FORCE an adult to get ventilated. they have to agree. they can refuse to be ventilated. it's in the papers they sign when they agree to be admitted

any adult can refuse any treatment. i mean if they are not unconscious or obviously not there mentally (and then you have to have a psychiatrist or a court order)

i don't know about any other country but people can't just remove a person from a hospital here. they have to be given permission by patient before admitting them (except spouse). like, say, i do not have a legal right to remove my parent or sibling or adult child from a hospital without either their permission or a court order. i can't even get info from a hospital person unless the patient wrote it on a HIPPA FORM when them were admitted.

any patient can leave a hospital any time even if they do it against the doctor's advice - if they do the ins will not pay and the patient will have to

and doctors got the right to refuse to treat a patient for any condition they don't have. like i can't go and demand the doctor treat me for prostate cancer and they have to even though i never had a prostate in the first place. they got a right to refuse to give a medication for a problem the patient doesn't have too. like i can't demand they give me medicine for a kidney transplant and for some reason they got to.

and why they are not yanking licenses for actual human doctors giving horse medicine or parasite medicine for a virus when they OBVIOUSLY do not treat it i do not get

been reading stuff about how even some people with breakthrough covid get long covid and they are NOW starting to talk about what happens to kidz brains/hearts/lungs who get covid and appear to recover. And there is gonna be a WHOLE lot of shttt about how to pay for disability for people - millions of them - who can't do no nothing because of long covid
   14266. Biscuit_pants Posted: September 30, 2021 at 04:00 PM (#6042597)
Why? From what I've learned on internet: It is all part of one grand conspiracy of left-wing authoritarianism. Biden/Clintons/New World Order is forcing the CDC/WHO/Big Pharma to follow their covid lie.

because fighting partisanship with partisanship only leads to more partisanship. It is always better to be the adult.
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