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Tuesday, April 28, 2020

Empty Stadium Sports Will Be Really Weird

So, with the very likely possibility that baseball and basketball — at minimum — will be played to empty stadiums, it begs the question: Will it be as fun?

And before you answer, think about it for a second. No crowd noise. No intensity that builds for the home team or against the away team. Yes, the scoreboard will tell the tale, but the pressure is cranked up when you have a building full of crazy fans screaming their lungs out.

I get that it’s a business and that the money’s at the ML level, but considering crowds, distance from population centers, and the pleasures of relaxed fandom, I’ve been thinking that we might just run some mLs instead.

Mayor Blomberg Posted: April 28, 2020 at 10:17 AM | 4528 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: business, fans, stadiums

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   3701. Starring Bradley Scotchman as RMc Posted: May 22, 2020 at 02:33 PM (#5952973)
Trump today: "We need more prayer, not less."

Yep.
   3702. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: May 22, 2020 at 02:36 PM (#5952975)
Anyway I think houses of worship can operate safely at reduced capacity and with other precautions. I think the odds of them actually doing so are low in many places. But I guess we'll find out.
   3703. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: May 22, 2020 at 02:40 PM (#5952977)
We're in late Spring. Churches should be having small services outside.
   3704. Mayor Blomberg Posted: May 22, 2020 at 02:40 PM (#5952978)
Wait til he orders the responsible priests who are not running live services (and the newly awakened ones who put a stop to it after infecting parishioners) back in the pulpit and insists it's religious freedumb.
   3705. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: May 22, 2020 at 02:51 PM (#5952981)
Trump today: "We need more prayer, not less."

Yep.


Everyone else in the country: "We need less idiocy, not more."
   3706. Srul Itza At Home Posted: May 22, 2020 at 02:54 PM (#5952983)
(Though actually I think the NZ example is very relevant to Hawaii, which IIRC has the lowest death count of any US state. Maybe Mongolia could have been an example for Alaska to follow as well.)


Not the lowest death count, but the lowest death rate. Alaska, Montana and Wyoming have lower counts, but despite being far, far larger geographically, have smaller populations.

Second lowest in case rate.


   3707. Ron J Posted: May 22, 2020 at 02:55 PM (#5952984)
More disappointing news that helps explain why the percentage of people with antibodies was so low in Sweden.

Quoting from a Guardian story:

Researchers at Oxford University recently analysed blood from recovered Covid-19 patients and found that levels of IgG antibodies – those responsible for longer-lasting immunity – rose steeply in the first month of infection but then began to fall again.


And

Last week, scientists at Rockefeller University in New York found that most people who recovered from Covid-19 without going into hospital did not make many killer antibodies against the virus.

Story
   3708. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: May 22, 2020 at 03:03 PM (#5952986)

But Sweden did their antibody testing in late April, so you'd still expect most people who had contracted it to still have some at that point. Unless they're saying that the level of antibodies is so low for those with no/mild symptoms that it wouldn't register on a test?
   3709. Booey Posted: May 22, 2020 at 03:05 PM (#5952987)
#3701 - That's just evidence that he knows who his potential voters are come November, not he's personally going to be doing any praying or attending any services.
   3710. The Yankee Clapper Posted: May 22, 2020 at 03:08 PM (#5952988)
I usually wait for the investigation before jumping to conclusions on crimes like this, and this is no different (we've seen some fake hate crimes in the past). But it looks pretty bad.
It certainly could be targeted, politically-motivated arson. The other possibility may be insurance fraud. There was quite a bit of that in the wave of black church fires a few years back. The Feds eventually solved most of the cases, IIRC.
   3711. Dr. Vaux Posted: May 22, 2020 at 03:09 PM (#5952989)
It sure illustrates the idiocy. From a purely functional standpoint, why would you want more, rather than fewer, of your potential voters to be dead by the time the election is held?
   3712. Joe Bivens, Elderly Northeastern Jew Posted: May 22, 2020 at 03:10 PM (#5952990)
Another 5% must believe in nose freedom but not mouth freedom. Oy


Are they mouth breathers? Because that would work.
   3713. Lassus Posted: May 22, 2020 at 03:16 PM (#5952991)
Trump today: "We need more prayer, not less."

Yep.
"Because we're abandoning science, so you'd better try SOMETHING else."
   3714. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: May 22, 2020 at 03:21 PM (#5952992)
I mean...what sort of sadistic all-powerful deity do these people believe in, that apparently is letting a deadly virus run amok, but still wants people to congregate and sing in worship?? How does that work?
   3715. Mayor Blomberg Posted: May 22, 2020 at 03:25 PM (#5952993)
I mean...what sort of sadistic all-powerful deity do these people believe in, that apparently is letting a deadly virus run amok, but still wants people to congregate and sing in worship?? How does that work?


Football, you fool. ;) I mean,

Gov. Greg Abbott says Texas is aiming to start college football on time, with fans in stands

The state is still working out a few issues, Abbott said Friday, but he predicted the season will return as scheduled, with at least some fans allowed to attend.
   3716. The Yankee Clapper Posted: May 22, 2020 at 03:28 PM (#5952994)
That Lancet study seems to have focused on use of hydroxychloroquine without zinc, which seems strange since it appears that doctors have been mostly using it with zinc, including those who successfully treated Amy Klobuchar’s husband. Reportedly, there are several large studies ongoing, so we should know more before too long.
   3717. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: May 22, 2020 at 03:36 PM (#5952995)
"We need more prayer, not less."

Organized religion has brain washed people into thinking that you need a church to pray to god.

You don't. Pray all day long, at home, in your car, etc. You don't need to go to a church to do this.
   3718. Lassus Posted: May 22, 2020 at 03:38 PM (#5952996)
I mean...what sort of sadistic all-powerful deity do these people believe in, that apparently is letting a deadly virus run amok, but still wants people to congregate and sing in worship?? How does that work?

Christians believe their highest callings to be martyrdom and masochism - although they mostly settle for indifference and revenge. (And before anyone gets on me, I promise and guarantee you that I have been to and participated in more religious services than probably everyone else on this thread put together.)
   3719. Mayor Blomberg Posted: May 22, 2020 at 04:30 PM (#5953003)
For the mouth-breathers:

nventors developed a coronavirus mask that lets you eat without taking it off. Squeeze a lever and it opens a slot so you can go at it like Pac-Man. Inventors say the mask lets you can dine out with friends without taking your mask off. https://twitter.com/NBCDFW/status/1262566379343003652

   3720. Booey Posted: May 22, 2020 at 04:31 PM (#5953004)
#3718 - It's not that you're wrong, it's that "indifference and revenge" describes most non Christians too. That one seems to be a human trait rather than a religious one.
   3721. puck Posted: May 22, 2020 at 04:31 PM (#5953005)
that apparently is letting a deadly virus run amok


Isn't there big group of people who contend that no such thing is running amok?
   3722. Lassus Posted: May 22, 2020 at 04:33 PM (#5953007)
#3718 - It's not that you're wrong, it's that "indifference and revenge" describes most non Christians too. That one seems to be a human trait rather than a religious one.

Fair. I don't actually think it's MOST people. Or even most Christians. I'd go with "many".
   3723. Booey Posted: May 22, 2020 at 04:37 PM (#5953008)
#3722 - Agreed. "Many" is a better way of putting it.
   3724. The Yankee Clapper Posted: May 22, 2020 at 04:50 PM (#5953010)
I promise and guarantee you that I have been to and participated in more religious services than probably everyone else on this thread put together.
A self-generated appeal to authority for a non-believer paid to sing in the church choir? Not exactly compelling.
   3725. PreservedFish Posted: May 22, 2020 at 05:01 PM (#5953012)
Christians believe their highest callings to be martyrdom and masochism


I don't think this is true, at all, of modern, Western, first world Christians. Maybe in the 12th century it was true. Maybe it's still some true in some benighted corners of the world.
   3726. Mayor Blomberg Posted: May 22, 2020 at 05:11 PM (#5953014)

Maybe in the 12th century it was true. Maybe it's still some true in some benighted corners of the world.


My mother was not that old.
   3727. Jay Z Posted: May 22, 2020 at 05:21 PM (#5953017)
Organized religion has brain washed people into thinking that you need a church to pray to god.

You don't. Pray all day long, at home, in your car, etc. You don't need to go to a church to do this.


It's not just about the personal relationship. If it were just that, people would have no reason to go to a church pre or post COVID-19. They could just have their personal relationship with God and leave it there.

Some people want the community, the end to loneliness, the shared experience. Their job sucks, and their spouse is cheating on them, but they have that one hour of the week where that doesn't matter. That's gone now, with no promises of when it returns.

Realistically, there is no short term solution to the church service. Nor the gay men's choir practice, the rock concert, the college basketball game with a crowd full of fans. I might suggest getting together in smaller groups. That will not eliminate the spread of the virus, but it's better than the large groups, and may help in people's morale and psychological well being. Which is going to continue to take a beating as month follows month.
   3728. greenback used to say live and let live Posted: May 22, 2020 at 05:44 PM (#5953019)
Some people want the community, the end to loneliness, the shared experience. Their job sucks, and their spouse is cheating on them, but they have that one hour of the week where that doesn't matter. That's gone now, with no promises of when it returns.

I don't buy it. I practice with some zen Buddhists once a week over Zoom. It's inferior to the real thing, but I pretty clearly have that 1.5 hours per week where that other stuff doesn't matter. I don't have any supernatural aspects to my religious practice, so the idea that people think God's #### doesn't work over the Internet leaves me wondering if church dogma is more of a problem here than a solution.
   3729. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: May 22, 2020 at 05:54 PM (#5953021)
I would respectfully suggest that we don’t get to decide what is or isn’t fulfilling to other people, spiritually or otherwise. I think it’s fine to argue that someone’s desire to physically attend church shouldn’t outweigh the broader societal health risks right now. Hopefully people can feel some fulfillment in the notion that they are helping to preserve life by avoiding large gatherings. But it’s understandable that some people desire and miss the in-person community.
   3730. Joe Bivens, Elderly Northeastern Jew Posted: May 22, 2020 at 06:07 PM (#5953022)
THE CHURCH NEEDS MONEY!!!
   3731. Joe Bivens, Elderly Northeastern Jew Posted: May 22, 2020 at 06:10 PM (#5953023)
Ooohhhh it's the ZINC that brings out the best in HCQ. Thanks, Dr. Clapper!
   3732. never forget: the pee tape is 57i66135 Posted: May 22, 2020 at 06:10 PM (#5953024)
This might not come as a surprise if you ever use Twitter, but it turns out bots are driving the push to “reopen America” on the platform.

According to Business Insider, researchers from Carnegie Mellon University found that about half of more than 200 million tweets related to covid-19 that have been sent since January appear to be from bots. About half of all accounts tweeting about “reopening America” appeared to be bots, and 60 perfect [percent?] of the 1,000 most influential retweeters appeared to be bots. Of the top 50 influential accounts, 82 percent are bots. Basically, a whole lot of fake accounts are artificially inflating the “movement” to reopen America. The researchers were able to categorize more than 100 types of inaccurate covid-19 stories, but tweets about ending stay-at-home orders were the most frequent.

#notapuppet
   3733. Sit down, Sleepy has lots of stats Posted: May 22, 2020 at 06:17 PM (#5953026)
Basically, a whole lot of fake accounts are artificially inflating the “movement” to reopen America. The researchers were able to categorize more than 100 types of inaccurate covid-19 stories, but tweets about ending stay-at-home orders were the most frequent.
Gee, I wonder where these bots originated, and find it incredibly ironic that they are supporting Trump’s “I’m still a helpless underdog against the vicious democrats destroying America” message.
   3734. Mayor Blomberg Posted: May 22, 2020 at 06:22 PM (#5953027)
mock those bots all you want but if you don't try to understand them you'll lose again in November.
   3735. greenback used to say live and let live Posted: May 22, 2020 at 06:41 PM (#5953028)
But it’s understandable that some people desire and miss the in-person community.

This is dishonest. Yes, online socialization is inferior, but the idea that it can't perform a similar analgesic function to what Jay-Z described says a great deal. Nietzsche was right, God is dead.
   3736. Srul Itza Posted: May 22, 2020 at 06:48 PM (#5953029)
Negative case growth ib Hawaii today.

Hawaii health officials today reported no new coronavirus cases in the islands for the fourth time in May and also removed five cases from the statewide count which now stands at 642.

“As a result of updated testing information,” officials dropped two cases from Oahu’s count and one each from the Big Island, Maui and Kauai, they said.
   3737. never forget: the pee tape is 57i66135 Posted: May 22, 2020 at 06:55 PM (#5953030)
when is ESPN gonna give me a 5 part documentary on ricky watters?


   3738. Lassus Posted: May 22, 2020 at 07:17 PM (#5953032)
A self-generated appeal to authority for a non-believer paid to sing in the church choir? Not exactly compelling.

Preceded by a lifetime of Roman Catholic training from the most serious church-goers this side of the Filipinos (the Poles) and a personal request from the Bishop to enter seminary? Then three decades of multi-denominational services? Yeah, Clapper, I do find my authority on the Christian dynamic compelling. But you think Trump is compelling, so your opinion will be taken for what it's worth, as always.

I speak highly of myself here, which I find uncomfortable. But I am certainly eminently aware of the Sacred mood of our lifetimes.
   3739. Dr. Vaux Posted: May 22, 2020 at 07:55 PM (#5953034)
And, speaking as a person who singing for pay in choirs brought back to the church, those who want to "open things up" before it's medically justifiable don't belong to any religion that I do.
   3740. Starring Bradley Scotchman as RMc Posted: May 22, 2020 at 08:07 PM (#5953037)
Trump today: "We need more prayer, not less."

Yep.

Everyone else in the country: "We need less idiocy, not more."


That was my point. (I know having Trump as president has me praying more...)
   3741. Mayor Blomberg Posted: May 22, 2020 at 08:49 PM (#5953041)
   3742. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: May 22, 2020 at 09:20 PM (#5953046)
I don't buy it. I practice with some zen Buddhists once a week over Zoom. It's inferior to the real thing, but I pretty clearly have that 1.5 hours per week where that other stuff doesn't matter. I don't have any supernatural aspects to my religious practice, so the idea that people think God's #### doesn't work over the Internet leaves me wondering if church dogma is more of a problem here than a solution.

Sacraments don't work over the internet. You can not receive the Eucharist, or confession/absolution over the internet. You can not be baptized or marry over the internet. You can't mourn your dead (funeral mass) very well over the internet.

Sacramental Churches (big surprise) are highly focused on Sacraments, and to get them, we need our Churches open.
   3743. Srul Itza Posted: May 22, 2020 at 09:35 PM (#5953047)
Sacraments don't work over the internet.


Nor anywhere else.

These johnny-come-lately religions, like this cult of the Nazarene, really are not very convincing.
   3744. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: May 22, 2020 at 09:44 PM (#5953048)
From 3741:

Open Carry Texas Vice President David Amad, speaking about Ector County Sheriff Mike Griffis: “We’re going to Odessa and we’re going to show this son of a b**** what the Constitution really means. We’re gonna have to stand up to this ol’ boy. This guy needs a lesson. He needs a big lesson, and we need to go out there and teach him.”

Amad said any rally attendees who break the law will surrender peacefully, but if they believe they haven’t broken the law and the sheriff’s office attempts to arrest them, he said “we’re not going to allow that son of a b**** to arrest us.”

“I don’t care if he rolls in with the whole 2nd Armored Division, I’m not going to surrender to him,” he said.
========================================
Texas Penal Code § 22.07. Terroristic Threat

(a) A person commits an offense if he threatens to commit any offense involving violence to any person or property with intent to:

(2) place any person in fear of imminent serious bodily injury;
...
(6) influence the conduct or activities of a branch or agency of the federal government, the state, or a political subdivision of the state.

An offense under Subsection (a)(2) is a state jail felony if the offense is committed against a person the actor knows is a peace officer or judge.
An offense under Subsection (a)(4), (a)(5), or (a)(6) is a felony of the third degree.
   3745. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: May 22, 2020 at 09:47 PM (#5953049)
Sacraments don't work over the internet. You can not receive the Eucharist, or confession/absolution over the internet. You can not be baptized or marry over the internet
Says who, and why not?
   3746. The Yankee Clapper Posted: May 22, 2020 at 09:49 PM (#5953050)
More bad news on nursing homes:
Susan Ferrechio
@susanferrechio

Fairfax County Health Department responded to my request for nursing home/longterm care facility deaths from COVID-19. As of May 22, there have been 249 coronavirus deaths in these facilities. That's ***75 percent*** of all Fairfax County deaths from coronavirus as of today (330)
That’s a generally very well-off Virginia suburb of Washington, DC, mostly just outside the Beltway.
   3747. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: May 22, 2020 at 09:52 PM (#5953051)
The second amendment advocates have gone from "we need arms to defend our homes and persons" to "the second amendment means I can terrorize and menace whoever the #### I feel like."

   3748. JJ1986 Posted: May 22, 2020 at 10:01 PM (#5953053)
I have definitely seen videos of confessions on the internet.
   3749. never forget: the pee tape is 57i66135 Posted: May 22, 2020 at 10:35 PM (#5953056)
The second amendment advocates have gone from "we need arms to defend our homes and persons" to "the second amendment means I can terrorize and menace whoever the #### I feel like."
no; they've always been like this.

the reason it seems worse now is that the NRA is in shambles after they laundered tens of millions of dollars from russia in order to run pro-trump political ads in 2016. they used to at least try to put a glossy finish on top of the gun nuttery; they were still ####### nuts ('every teacher should have a firearm' (...and who's gonna pay for it? mexico)), but it was more of a focus-grouped, PR-friendly gun-nuttery.



the current gun nuttery is more of the kind where, someone's filming a pilot for the discovery channel about their thousands of assault rifles and mannequins when a "malfunctioning" explosive kills their wife, and the whole show has to be scrapped.


oh, and that particular discovery channel gun nut show is not to be confused with another discovery channel gun nut show that had to be cancelled after the guy who owned the shop that was featured in the show turned out to be a child molester.

which, speaking of gun nutter child molesters, here's a pic of ted nugent in the oval office.
   3750. never forget: the pee tape is 57i66135 Posted: May 22, 2020 at 10:52 PM (#5953057)
it's been a long 3 years.
   3751. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: May 22, 2020 at 11:15 PM (#5953060)
i feel ya, bro
   3752. Mayor Blomberg Posted: May 22, 2020 at 11:48 PM (#5953064)

3744 -- You say Terrorist, Texas say Patriot. Don't know what Abbott will say publicly, but I'm sure Dan Patrick wants to be Amad's concubine.
   3753. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: May 23, 2020 at 01:28 AM (#5953068)
Fairfax County Health Department responded to my request for nursing home/longterm care facility deaths from COVID-19. As of May 22, there have been 249 coronavirus deaths in these facilities. That's ***75 percent*** of all Fairfax County deaths from coronavirus as of today (330)

I’m not sure this is a particularly relevant metric. Fairfax County has 1.1 million people, so they’ve lost 0.03% to COVID to date (according to official statistics, which may be undercounted) which is a pretty low number. Every death is a tragedy, of course, but with relatively low numbers like that a cluster at one or two nursing homes can really skew the data.
   3754. BrianBrianson Posted: May 23, 2020 at 01:31 AM (#5953069)
I am not trying to rag on Mongolia. It's certainly a credit to them that they had a plan, and perhaps they've done a good job executing it.

I am trying to rag on the article, which was a really bad manifestation of the partisanisation of countermeasures that's shown up in American politics (perhaps in a few other countries, but isn't really present anywhere I'm paying much attention to), where admitting that any countries might have had luck or structural advantages is seen as giving partisan ground and thus to be refuted and denied ... but the article also contains a statment that quite clearly demonstrates luck (that their first case didn't arrive until March 10th).

Mongolia has a lot of connections to China; it would've taken some bad luck, but if the first case of COVID had shown up in Ulaanbaatar on December 10th, their situation could've been a lot worse than the first case showing up March 10th (and, almost anywhere that got it's first case March 10th would've been way better off. Indeed, the countries that have completely stamped it out seem to have both great plans and great luck.
   3755. Welcome to Gator Hammock (CoB). Posted: May 23, 2020 at 01:39 AM (#5953070)
I've owned guns since I was 12.

I hate open carry ######## so ####### much.
   3756. Mayor Blomberg Posted: May 23, 2020 at 01:50 AM (#5953071)
Fairfax County Health Department responded to my request for nursing home/longterm care facility deaths from COVID-19. As of May 22, there have been 249 coronavirus deaths in these facilities. That's ***75 percent*** of all Fairfax County deaths from coronavirus as of today (330)

and how many deaths were recorded outside the nursing homes if what we're calling lockdown had not been implemented?
   3757. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: May 23, 2020 at 03:26 AM (#5953073)

Going back to something posted on the prior page, which I meant to comment on earlier...

In principle, if you could let everyone under 50 get infected without letting anyone over 70 get infected, you might achieve herd immunity with a fatality rate around 0.1%

This, incidentally, is almost certainly one reason why Singapore's CFR is so low. Singapore has had 23 confirmed deaths (this is likely underreported, although I don't know what the excess mortality data would say) and 30,426 reported cases. 3 weeks ago, they had 17,101 cases, implying a 0.1% CFR.

But the vast majority of their cases are in the foreign worker dorms, where I believe most of residents are 18-40 and very few, if any, are over 65. Only 2,197 cases as of 3 weeks ago were in the rest of the community + imported cases. Unfortunately I haven't seen any breakdown of how many deaths derive from the worker dorms vs. other, but 23/2,197 = ~1.0%.

You can see the IFR drop as the proportion of dorm cases increases. If you exclude the worker dorm cases from the denominator (not a perfect measurement without being able to exclude worker dorm deaths from the numerator), the CFR remains pretty constant:

April 1 - 1,000 reported cases, only 3% in worker dorms. 3 weeks later, 11 deaths (1.2% CFR)
April 16 - 4,427 reported cases, 61% in worker dorms. 3 weeks later, 20 deaths (0.5% CFR, 1.2% if you exclude worker dorm cases from the denominator)
May 1 - 17,101 reported cases, 87.2% in worker dorms. 3 weeks later, 23 deaths (0.1% CFR, 1.0% if you exclude worker dorm cases from the denominator)
   3758. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: May 23, 2020 at 03:49 AM (#5953074)
Huffington Post / YouGov poll shows that wearing a mask is less of a partisan issue than some here would like to believe. 66% of Republicans report wearing a mask "Most or all of the time" when in public and near other people, while 84% of Democrats do so.
   3759. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: May 23, 2020 at 03:57 AM (#5953075)
US reported deaths over the past 7 weeks ending on Friday:

April 10 11,639
April 17 
14,103 (+21.2%)
April 24 13,397 (-5.0%)
May 1    12,808 (-4.4%)
May 8    12,703 (-0.8%)
May 15   -  9,967 (-21.5%)
May 22   -  8,427 (-15.5%) 

   3760. Lassus Posted: May 23, 2020 at 07:18 AM (#5953079)
#3759 - I've seen some new tables (I think they are NYt) that shows a lot of this - like all the numbers - are driven by NYC. In that much of the country has GROWING cases and this decline is driven a lot by NY.
   3761. bob gee Posted: May 23, 2020 at 08:11 AM (#5953084)
Kiryas Joel (NY, Orthodox Jewish) school ordered to close after hundreds of students found in building.

https://www.recordonline.com/news/20200522/kiryas-joel-school-ordered-to-close-after-hundreds-of-students-found-in-building
   3762. Fernigal McGunnigle Posted: May 23, 2020 at 08:26 AM (#5953085)
Huffington Post / YouGov poll shows that wearing a mask is less of a partisan issue than some here would like to believe. 66% of Republicans report wearing a mask "Most or all of the time" when in public and near other people, while 84% of Democrats do so.
I suspect it's a gendered issue. My experience (in grocery stores, Walgreen's, Home Depot, and a local garden center) has been that 100% of people not wearing masks are men. Something about the whole machismo/stupidity nexus.
   3763. Lassus Posted: May 23, 2020 at 08:28 AM (#5953086)
I suspect it's a gendered issue. My experience (in grocery stores, Walgreen's, Home Depot, and a local garden center) has been that 100% of people not wearing masks are men. Something about the whole machismo/stupidity nexus.

Yeah, two guys in the local Agway yesterday. The Agway in town is quite old and very well hardass-established and THEY all have masks, so I'm a little surprised they didn't tell the guy to get the #### out or get a nail gun in the crotch.
   3764. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: May 23, 2020 at 08:37 AM (#5953087)

I've seen some new tables (I think they are NYT) that shows a lot of this - like all the numbers - are driven by NYC. In that much of the country has GROWING cases and this decline is driven a lot by NY.

Maybe true of cases. Using the COVID Tracking Project Data (which uses state-reported numbers), the decline in *deaths* was about equal for the NY/NJ/CT tri-state area and for the rest of the country (tri-state had a bigger percentage decline, though). This has been true for the past two weeks.

In terms of reported cases, yes NY saw a decline this past week, the rest of the country in aggregate was up 2.4%. But that's a bit misleading because the rest of the country reportedly conducted 21% more tests this week than last. However, it does reflect a reversal in trend from the previous two weeks, where number of tests was way up and number of positive tests was down.

The disclaimer, of course, is that certain states revealed this past week that they're lumping antibody and COVID tests together into one reported statistic. (a) I'm not sure if that's been corrected, (b) If it has, I'm not sure whether COVID Tracking Project has gone back and updated their historical data. So take all of the above regarding tests and cases with a grain of salt.
   3765. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: May 23, 2020 at 09:39 AM (#5953088)

I suspect it's a gendered issue. My experience (in grocery stores, Walgreen's, Home Depot, and a local garden center) has been that 100% of people not wearing masks are men. Something about the whole machismo/stupidity nexus.

My personal experience is that while it's more men, there are lots of women not wearing masks, too.

And the article/survey addresses this! More women say they "always" wear masks when near other people (60% vs. 44%) but if you look at "most of the time" or "always" the difference is only 70% vs. 65%.
   3766. BrianBrianson Posted: May 23, 2020 at 10:09 AM (#5953090)
Yeah, I have seen some media claims not wearing a mask is a macho thing, so I've been watching a bit, but it's not strong enough to easily tell by eye. At the grocery store today I saw two men and one woman not wearing a mask ... can't do any stats with that.
   3767. Ben Broussard Ramjet Posted: May 23, 2020 at 10:16 AM (#5953091)
Another Covid-19 scandal in the UK, where Dominic Cummings - Boris Johnson's top unelected political advisor, a veteran of the pro-Brexit 'Leave' campaign, and roughly the UK equivalent of Stephen Miller - turns out to have driven 260 miles from London to Durham with his Covid-19 positive wife to deposit his children with their grandparents, nearly 2 months ago. This seems a more egregious breach of the lockdown rules than Neil Ferguson, who, you may recall, was forced to quit the government's scientific advisory board after he was visited by his romantic partner.

In contrast to Ferguson's fate, where senior government ministers variously expressed disappointment and concern that an enquiry might be needed, the Cabinet has rallied round. The Foreign Minister, the Chancellor, the Health Secretary, and others have gone public with 'did nothing wrong' and 'just trying to look after his children' sentiments. (As a key worker, Cummings was entitled to 6.5 hours of free childcare per day, and if he was so sick that he couldn't take care of them, a 260 mile drive was an odd decision to make.) There's some obfuscation going on in the media, but the rules at the time - and even now - seem pretty clear.
   3768. Tony S Posted: May 23, 2020 at 10:18 AM (#5953092)

I don't wear my mask outdoors, but I avoid any dense gatherings of people (masked or not). And I avoid getting too physically close to anyone.

When I'm indoors in a public place, though, I always wear one. And the few public places I go to -- grocery stores, drugstores -- require customers to wear masks anyway.

I went to my workplace Monday for a couple of debriefings. Hadn't been in there in two months. The place was half-empty (they're staggering schedules), and nobody is allowed in without a facial covering.

In two weeks I'll officially be a retiree. :) :)
   3769. Ben Broussard Ramjet Posted: May 23, 2020 at 10:21 AM (#5953093)
Congrats Tony! Excellent timing.
   3770. Stevey Posted: May 23, 2020 at 10:46 AM (#5953096)

You don't. Pray all day long, at home, in your car, etc. You don't need to go to a church to do this.


Your ideas are interesting to me and I wish to subscribe to your theses.
   3771. Best Dressed Chicken in Town Posted: May 23, 2020 at 11:14 AM (#5953097)
I promise and guarantee you that I have been to and participated in more religious services than probably everyone else on this thread put together.

Quite a promise.
   3772. PreservedFish Posted: May 23, 2020 at 11:17 AM (#5953098)
I mean...what sort of sadistic all-powerful deity do these people believe in, that apparently is letting a deadly virus run amok, but still wants people to congregate and sing in worship?? How does that work?


I just listened to a podcast on the gnostic christians, who believed that the Old Testament God was the bad guy.
   3773. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: May 23, 2020 at 11:26 AM (#5953100)

#3767 seems a bit reckless, but I find these kind of things hard to get too worked up about.
   3774. Mayor Blomberg Posted: May 23, 2020 at 11:29 AM (#5953101)
Pick up a copy of The Gnostic Gospels (Jonas); read it for course in Gnosticism and the Modern Imagination at Georgetown.
   3775. Starring Bradley Scotchman as RMc Posted: May 23, 2020 at 11:36 AM (#5953102)
what sort of sadistic all-powerful deity do these people believe in, that apparently is letting a deadly virus run amok, but still wants people to congregate and sing in worship?

God is famous for his sense of humour. (I mean, human beings...?! That's comedy gold...!)
   3776. bob gee Posted: May 23, 2020 at 11:41 AM (#5953103)
NYS deaths 84, down from 109 yesterday.
   3777. Karl from NY Posted: May 23, 2020 at 11:51 AM (#5953104)
Huffington Post / YouGov poll shows that wearing a mask is less of a partisan issue than some here would like to believe. 66% of Republicans report wearing a mask "Most or all of the time" when in public and near other people, while 84% of Democrats do so.

This means that non-masking is a 2:1 ratio of R:D, which would seem significantly partisan.

Also I doubt the poll had an option for my position, which is "f--- this BS but it's a state executive order mandate if you want to buy food today."

I do respect private property's right to impose such a rule, but I'd be taking my business to anywhere that didn't if there were any within 200 miles.
   3778. Mayor Blomberg Posted: May 23, 2020 at 12:06 PM (#5953106)
In the last few weeks a spate of American stores have made headlines after putting up signs telling customers who wear masks they will be denied entry. On Thursday, Vice reported on a Kentucky convenience store that put up a sign reading: “NO Face Masks allowed in store. Lower your mask or go somewhere else. Stop listening to [Kentucky governor Andy] Beshear, he’s a dumbass.”

Another sign was posted by a Californian construction store earlier this month encouraging hugs but not masks. In Illinois, a gas station employee who put up a similar sign has since defended herself, arguing that mask-wearing made it hard to differentiate between adults and children when selling booze and cigarettes.

Another set of data points for mask politics
   3779. Mayor Blomberg Posted: May 23, 2020 at 12:13 PM (#5953107)
As of today in Worldometer, the UK has caught Italy in Deaths/M and likely won't look back.
   3780. Hot Wheeling American Posted: May 23, 2020 at 12:14 PM (#5953109)
I do respect private property's right to impose such a rule, but I'd be taking my business to anywhere that didn't if there were any within 200 miles.

I've empathized with some of your whining, but this is so lame.

In the last few weeks a spate of American stores have made headlines after putting up signs telling customers who wear masks they will be denied entry. On Thursday, Vice reported on a Kentucky convenience store that put up a sign reading: “NO Face Masks allowed in store. Lower your mask or go somewhere else. Stop listening to [Kentucky governor Andy] Beshear, he’s a dumbass.”


Bart's Karl's People
   3781. Tony S Posted: May 23, 2020 at 12:18 PM (#5953110)
The anti-mask crowd speaks of frustration, and insists that they're as concerned with public health as anyone, but that the cost to their freedoms is too much, yadda yadda yadda.

But when they try to BAN people from WEARING masks...well, it tips their hand that their motivations are more about flexing and making statements and less about "freedom" (never mind public safety).

And that excuse about not being able to distinguish kids from adults is so laughably lame (ever heard of ID cards?)...

Really, honestly, slipping on a mask for ten minutes is that much of a hardship?
   3782. Commissioner Bud Black Beltre Hillman Fred Posted: May 23, 2020 at 12:20 PM (#5953111)
I just listened to a podcast on the gnostic christians,
Link?
   3783. Lassus Posted: May 23, 2020 at 12:23 PM (#5953112)
I do respect private property's right to impose such a rule, but I'd be taking my business to anywhere that didn't if there were any within 200 miles.
I have both sympathized and empathized with your position, and would not have used the language HotWheelingAmerican did above regarding that position.

This statement above moves that empathy and sympathy into very serious reconsideration.
   3784. Lassus Posted: May 23, 2020 at 12:27 PM (#5953114)
Re: "probably" - Quite a promise.

Absolutism is idiocy
   3785. PreservedFish Posted: May 23, 2020 at 12:36 PM (#5953115)
Link?


In Our Time. Just one podcast. Not, like, a whole podcast series.
   3786. PreservedFish Posted: May 23, 2020 at 12:37 PM (#5953116)
Karl: I'm as low risk as imaginable.
Also Karl: I'll go out of my way to avoid wearing a stupid mask.
   3787. Lassus Posted: May 23, 2020 at 12:39 PM (#5953117)
Just one podcast. Not, like, a whole podcast series.

THANK YOU for this distinction.

signed

- Man afraid to commit to what seems like Greg K's 728-part podcast.
   3788. Commissioner Bud Black Beltre Hillman Fred Posted: May 23, 2020 at 12:41 PM (#5953118)
Thanks! One episode vs series -- phew. I'm interested, but probably not that interested ;)
   3789. PreservedFish Posted: May 23, 2020 at 12:49 PM (#5953119)
Pick up a copy of The Gnostic Gospels (Jonas); read it for course in Gnosticism and the Modern Imagination at Georgetown.


This is an oddly specific command. I'm not even a Georgetown student!
   3790. Mayor Blomberg Posted: May 23, 2020 at 12:56 PM (#5953120)
Fish, sorry, it's past tense pronoin implied but obviously not strongly enough: read it - I read it
   3791. Joe Bivens, Elderly Northeastern Jew Posted: May 23, 2020 at 01:12 PM (#5953123)
The mask issue comes down to people needing to grow up and be adults. Sure they're not comfortable. Tough. Being on a ventilator is comfortable? I guess if you're in an induced coma there's a level of comfort, in that you're oblivious to how sick you are. But you get the point.


If masks and social distancing are what's going to save us, we're doomed. Listen to some of the comments from young people interviewed by the media, about that HS graduating class that took that group picture with hundreds of kids, no masks: "If someone feels that they're safe enough not to wear masks, I'm fine with it." Dumbass kids are either not paying attention to and not hearing the warnings, or ignoring them. They just don't care. The public will is breaking down all over, led by Trump's call to OPEN THE COUNTRY. We're doomed to a constant cycle of ups and downs.
   3792. Mayor Blomberg Posted: May 23, 2020 at 01:38 PM (#5953124)
If masks and social distancing are what's going to save us, we're doomed.


Certainly true in Texas in the Imperial College London and Children's Hospital of Philadelphia projections and the native stupidity of white Texans.
   3793. puck Posted: May 23, 2020 at 01:41 PM (#5953125)
What sucks about this is the people who really should wear masks are the ones who refuse to wear them. It's likely they're not observing other safety measures either.

Has there been any good info on how contagious the asymptomatic are? Maybe that's the best bet at this point. Though I'm sure people who feel sick will still go out, go to work, etc.
   3794. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: May 23, 2020 at 01:41 PM (#5953126)
This means that non-masking is a 2:1 ratio of R:D, which would seem significantly partisan.

A substantial majority of both parties agree, which makes it much less partisan than any other actual political issue.

Also I doubt the poll had an option for my position, which is "f--- this BS but it's a state executive order mandate if you want to buy food today."

Sure, if you don't read TFA then you can imagine it says whatever you want it to! One of the benefits of reading it is that you can see what it actually does say, and it seems like your position that you would not wear a mask in public if it wasn't required (if I am understanding you correctly) is likely a minority position even among Republicans:

1. 62% of people believe that wearing a mask is a matter of public health, while 29% think it's a matter of personal choice and 9% are unsure. There is some divide along party lines, but a majority of Ds (76%), Is (59%) and Rs (51%) take the "public health" standpoint.

2. Democrats are more likely to be bothered by others not wearing masks, but still a majority of Ds (72%), Is (54%) and Rs (52%) are bothered at least a little by people not wearing masks in public.

3. Even 46% of Rs think Trump and Pence should wear masks when out in public near other people. (9% think they shouldn't, 35% don't care, and 10% are unsure.)
   3795. Mayor Blomberg Posted: May 23, 2020 at 01:45 PM (#5953127)
A substantial majority of both parties agree, which makes it much less partisan than any other actual political issue.
1. 62% of people believe that wearing a mask is a matter of public health, while 29% think it's a matter of personal choice and 9% are unsure. There is some divide along party lines, but a majority of Ds (76%), Is (59%) and Rs (51%) take the "public health" standpoint.
2. Democrats are more likely to be bothered by others not wearing masks, but still a majority of Ds (72%), Is (54%) and Rs (52%) are bothered at least a little by people not wearing masks in public.


that's not a substantial majority; it's within the margin of error. 3:1 vs 1:1 is a significant difference

And in sports news, the golfer in chief is on the minks.
   3796. Swoboda is freedom Posted: May 23, 2020 at 01:46 PM (#5953128)
Has there been any good info on how contagious the asymptomatic are? Maybe that's the best bet at this point. Though I'm sure people who feel sick will still go out, go to work, etc.


I don't think there is firm evidence yet. Most people who get the disease get it from people who are symptom free. (86% according to study) That make sense because you are out going around then. Most people can also spread the disease at least 2 days before they show symptoms.
   3797. Hot Wheeling American Posted: May 23, 2020 at 01:51 PM (#5953129)
I have both sympathized and empathized with your position, and would not have used the language HotWheelingAmerican did above regarding that position.

Hey...I thought ‘whining’ and ‘lame’ were pretty tame for internet baseball message board standards.
   3798. never forget: the pee tape is 57i66135 Posted: May 23, 2020 at 02:09 PM (#5953131)
If masks and social distancing are what's going to save us, we're doomed. Listen to some of the comments from young people interviewed by the media, about that HS graduating class that took that group picture with hundreds of kids, no masks: "If someone feels that they're safe enough not to wear masks, I'm fine with it." Dumbass kids are either not paying attention to and not hearing the warnings, or ignoring them. They just don't care. The public will is breaking down all over, led by Trump's call to OPEN THE COUNTRY. We're doomed to a constant cycle of ups and downs.
yup.
   3799. Lassus Posted: May 23, 2020 at 02:27 PM (#5953132)
KIDS TODAY is not a viable societal collapse argument; it was also not one in 1920, or 1820, or 1720 BC.
   3800. Greg K Posted: May 23, 2020 at 02:36 PM (#5953134)
- Man afraid to commit to what seems like Greg K's 728-part podcast.

Hey, there are only 728 PLANNED episodes. We'll probably all be dead before then.
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