Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Thursday, April 19, 2007

Eskin stands ground in Manuel dispute (RR)

Stumpf the stars…Eskin is still at it.

There has been a school of thought that Eskin is critical of Manuel because he replaced Larry Bowa, one of Eskin’s best friends in the sports world.

“That is utterly ridiculous,” Eskin said. “The only issue I had with them firing Bowa is that they didn’t fire Ed Wade at the same time.” (Wade was then the Phillies’ general manager.)

Eskin remained on the offensive.

“Everybody dreams these ulterior motives,” he said. “This guy is one of the poorest managers in major-league baseball. People think I have an agenda with the Phillies, but he still has trouble with a double switch.”

Repoz Posted: April 19, 2007 at 11:31 AM | 20 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: phillies

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: April 19, 2007 at 12:44 PM (#2339125)
The ulterior motive is that Eskin's ratings are driven by controversy and he seeks it whereever possible, except for confronting the stars and front office friends he toadies up to.

Eskin is wrong -- the team does NOT need to be screamed at or threatened (that's what Dallas Green's there for, isn't it?). The team is playing hard, it's just sucking right now. It's a combination of shaky pitching and incredibly bad clutch hitting that has this team in the position it's in.

Chollie is not a perfect manager -- the double switch seems beyond his ken and he can't seem to figure out how to separate 2 LH hitters in the lineup -- but beyond that he handles the pitching reasonably well, gets the players to play hard, gives guys the days off when they need it.

I'm curious, has anyone ever looked at the double switch statistically? I'm sure what you would use as the control group, maybe Charlie Manuel managed teams? :)
   2. Zonk demands an audit of your post Posted: April 19, 2007 at 12:56 PM (#2339135)
but beyond that he handles the pitching reasonably well

While I understand there are other aspects to handling a staff -- can anyone that sends their ace to the bullpen 3 starts into the season really be said to "handle the pitching reasonably well"?

Speaking as a Cubs fan - if Pinella were to announce Zambrano moving to the pen tomorrow, I'd want his head on a platter --- and that's considering Z's peripherals (16/16 - K/BB) are much worse than Myers (20/9 - K/BB).

I know nothing of Eskin - perhaps he's quite the idiot - but from the outside looking in, Manuel sure seems a fitting recipient of any grief hurled his way.
   3. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: April 19, 2007 at 02:51 PM (#2339215)
can anyone that sends their ace to the bullpen 3 starts into the season really be said to "handle the pitching reasonably well"?
This is not a punishment or demotion for performance (that is how I'm reading what you wrote) but a move predicated on having 6 starters and a fragile bullpen. It also sends the message to the team that Myers is willing to do whatever is necessary to make the team better. YMMV on how important that is. It is a defensible move, if not the move I'd make.
Manuel sure seems a fitting recipient of any grief hurled his way.
Too much of the grief has been about Manuel's appearance and his Southern drawl. And trust me, you want to know nothing of Eskin.
   4. PatrickInTheWoods, Apostate Posted: April 19, 2007 at 03:22 PM (#2339250)
Dallas Green


Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding!

You win the prize!

Eskin's a sock puppet (to a large extent) for people he "toadies" up to in the organizations. It's one of the reasons he says almost nothing about hockey: none of the Flyers' people will talk to him. Anyway, Eskin's guys within the Phillies were always Larry Bowa and Dallas Green (ok, or so I think).
   5. PatrickInTheWoods, Apostate Posted: April 19, 2007 at 03:27 PM (#2339259)
WRT to moving Myers to the bullpen: this is not a move by Manuel. This is an organizational decision. And it is defensible for all of the reasons Edmundo states.
   6. HowardMegdal Posted: April 19, 2007 at 03:29 PM (#2339263)
Eskin, and many people on WIP, don't feel like they're doing their jobs unless they are embroiled in controversy, and part of the story. Just keep that in mind.
   7. HowardMegdal Posted: April 19, 2007 at 03:34 PM (#2339269)
"This is not a punishment or demotion for performance (that is how I'm reading what you wrote) but a move predicated on having 6 starters and a fragile bullpen. It also sends the message to the team that Myers is willing to do whatever is necessary to make the team better. YMMV on how important that is. It is a defensible move, if not the move I'd make."

Taking your ace pitcher out of his role in order to send a message to the team that he wants to win is not defensible. Would benching Ryan Howard for 2/3 of the games because showing his willingness to be a bench coach was motivational in nature be defensible?
   8. PatrickInTheWoods, Apostate Posted: April 19, 2007 at 03:38 PM (#2339273)
Would benching Ryan Howard for 2/3 of the games because showing his willingness to be a bench coach was motivational in nature be defensible?


It's obvious that they don't consider these to be the same thing, even if you or I might.
   9. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: April 19, 2007 at 04:37 PM (#2339330)
Taking your ace pitcher out of his role in order to send a message to the team that he wants to win is not defensible.
You kind of ignored the two main reasons.

And this isn't likely to go on for the entire year. Just until the Phils are officially eliminated around mid-June. :)
   10. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: April 19, 2007 at 05:11 PM (#2339385)
OH GOD PLEASE SHUT UP YOU DAMN BURGER KING LOOKALIKE YOU HAVE NO REDEEMING QUALITIES EVEN THOUGH YOU WOULD BE A BETTER MANAGER THAN CHARLIE MANUEL
   11. Bad Doctor Posted: April 19, 2007 at 05:30 PM (#2339406)
This is such a tough team to follow as a statistically-inclined fan. If ever there was a squad that argues that walks clog the bases, clutch hitting (or lack thereof) exists, and a #1 or 2 starter could be more valuable as a set-up guy, it's this monstrosity I've been watching the last two weeks.
   12. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: April 19, 2007 at 05:42 PM (#2339424)
Nice capsule analysis, BadD. It's unfathomable what we are watching; I've seen nothing like it for the 50 years that I have been following baseball.
   13. Old Matt Posted: April 19, 2007 at 07:15 PM (#2339621)
Arguing with Eskin bought Manuel another week. He knows the Phillies don't want to make it look like they fire him because of the spat.
   14. HowardMegdal Posted: April 19, 2007 at 07:27 PM (#2339641)
"You kind of ignored the two main reasons."

Not really. The other two, that they have six starters, isn't really true. Just because Jon Lieber has been a starter in the past doesn't mean he qualifies as a starter now, after a season which saw him post nearly a 5 ERA, any more than Brett Myers IS a relief pitcher now because last night he pitched the eighth.

As for the weak bullpen, when 20% of the time they'll be taking the game over from a 5 ERA guy who all signs point to as getting worse, rather than a 3.9 ERA guy who all signs point to as being in-prime... well, having a scoreless eighth won't mean as much, will it? You know, when the Phils are already down 6-2?

IF they were one reliever short, it's still not defensible. They're short 5-6 of them.

I guess saying anything is not defensible is silly. Literally, one can construct a defense of anything (see Gonzales, Alberto).

It's just the dumbest use of in-house resources I've seen in a long, long time. Really, can't think of one I liked less.
   15. base ball chick Posted: April 19, 2007 at 07:46 PM (#2339669)
ok - ignoring eskin

what would all yall do to fix this team? anything? if wouldn't nobody do something right now, if the team keeps losing like this, then WHEN would you do SOMEthing and what would you do?
   16. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: April 19, 2007 at 07:55 PM (#2339679)
"If ever there was a squad that argues that walks clog the bases, clutch hitting (or lack thereof) exists, and a #1 or 2 starter could be more valuable as a set-up guy, it's this monstrosity I've been watching the last two weeks."

My Pirate-sense just went off here...
   17. Harris Posted: April 19, 2007 at 08:22 PM (#2339697)
I think Manuel is an atrocious bullpen manager.
How many times did he shove Arthur Rhodes, Ryan Franklin, Julio Santana into tight games and they blew it. He refused to put Fabio Castro in a pressure spot ever, despite pitching well throughout most of the year. He's going to mow through Geary, Madson, and Alfonseca until their arms fall off.

AND PLEASE QUIT PULLING PAT BURRELL FOR MICHAEL BOURN!.

How many times do we get to extra innings and have Bourn whiff for 2 ABs?
   18. HowardMegdal Posted: April 19, 2007 at 08:45 PM (#2339720)
Look, I don't think much of Manuel as a manager-his failure to separate Utley and Howard with Burrell is just one of the example. But he's managing without any bullets in the pen.

As for what I'd do- well, not much. Burrell fourth in the order. Certainly keep Myers in the rotation. Actively pursue Rosario-type options, and hope that I can find some decent arms (really- cycle these guys in like crazy, see what I can find). But the Phils fate was sealed when they complemented their star players with awful options at C, 3B, and RF, and no support for Gordon in the pen, or an alternative for Gordon should he wear down.
   19. bunyon Posted: April 19, 2007 at 08:50 PM (#2339727)
I'm curious, has anyone ever looked at the double switch statistically? I'm sure what you would use as the control group, maybe Charlie Manuel managed teams? :)

If Charlie Manuel managed teams are the control, then double switches look like the greatest strategy ever.

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Dynasty League Baseball

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Ray (CTL)
for his generous support.

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogMarcell Ozuna was choking wife as cops burst in, police video shows
(33 - 7:14am, Dec 03)
Last: bfan

NewsblogMLB, union stopped blood testing for HGH due to pandemic
(25 - 6:50am, Dec 03)
Last: sunday silence (again)

NewsblogNBA 2021-2022 Season Thread
(1250 - 3:32am, Dec 03)
Last: Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB)

NewsblogThe 100 Best Baseball Books Ever Written
(73 - 11:54pm, Dec 02)
Last: Tom Nawrocki

NewsblogFormer Cy Young Winner LaMarr Hoyt Reportedly Dies At 66
(56 - 11:02pm, Dec 02)
Last: The Duke

NewsblogReport: MLB Owners Vote Unanimously to Institute Lockout
(31 - 9:57pm, Dec 02)
Last: bookbook

Sox TherapyLocked Out and Semi-Loaded
(9 - 9:27pm, Dec 02)
Last: Jose Has Absurd Goosebump Arms

NewsblogSources: Boston Red Sox in agreement with Rich Hill
(16 - 9:19pm, Dec 02)
Last: villageidiom

NewsblogA’s reportedly eyeing Tropicana site for possible Strip ballpark
(21 - 8:01pm, Dec 02)
Last: Walt Davis

Newsblog'Chicago!' Stroman says he's joining Cubs
(48 - 7:27pm, Dec 02)
Last: Never Give an Inge (Dave)

NewsblogDoes Major League Baseball need an offseason transaction deadline?
(6 - 6:53pm, Dec 02)
Last: The Duke

NewsblogOT Soccer Thread - Domestic Cups, Congested Fixture Lists and Winter Breaks
(27 - 5:27pm, Dec 02)
Last: AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale

NewsblogMcCaffery: Jimmy Rollins, Ryan Howard passed Hall of Fame eye test
(67 - 5:12pm, Dec 02)
Last: taxandbeerguy

NewsblogSources - Cy Young winner Robbie Ray, Seattle Mariners finalizing $115 million contract
(9 - 4:40pm, Dec 02)
Last: Infinite Yost (Voxter)

NewsblogJackie Bradley, Jr. back to Boston in deal with Crew
(17 - 3:15pm, Dec 02)
Last: Walt Davis

Page rendered in 0.2356 seconds
48 querie(s) executed