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Sunday, February 23, 2020

Fans heckling Astros spring opener get signs stolen

WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. (AP) — Fans hoping to heckle the sign-stealing Houston Astros at their spring opener were met with quite the coincidence.

They got their signs stolen.

In the Astros’ first spring training game since their sign-stealing scandal rocked baseball, some fans brought signs jeering Houston, and ballpark personnel confiscated them before the exhibition opener against the World Series champion Washington Nationals on Saturday night.

In a Series rematch, the Nats got hearty cheers, while everyone in an Astros jersey — including the mascot, Orbit — was booed. Houston did not use any players implicated in MLB’s probe.

The sort of story for which drum riffs seem to be the only appropriate comment…..

 

QLE Posted: February 23, 2020 at 01:05 AM | 38 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: astros, fans, hecklers, sign-stealing

Reader Comments and Retorts

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   1. The Yankee Clapper Posted: February 23, 2020 at 12:34 PM (#5926087)
Astros not using regulars today (or last night) for what are essentially home games. Not as much fun booing the scrubs.
   2. Baldrick Posted: February 23, 2020 at 01:03 PM (#5926092)
They didn't have their signs 'stolen.' The signs were taken away by stadium officials.
   3. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: February 23, 2020 at 01:10 PM (#5926093)
Part of their punishment should have been that they can’t pull #### like this to silence critics.
   4. Do Not Touch Fancy Pants Socially Distanced Handle Posted: February 23, 2020 at 01:12 PM (#5926094)
Meritless confiscation is theft.
   5. The_Ex Posted: February 23, 2020 at 04:56 PM (#5926108)
I am sure this is OK, the Astros PR department are top notch.
   6. Adam Starblind Posted: February 23, 2020 at 07:26 PM (#5926115)
Can’t have people holding signs that say negative things about the baseball team.
   7. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 23, 2020 at 11:17 PM (#5926120)
What happened to the First Amendment??????
   8. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: February 23, 2020 at 11:33 PM (#5926121)
Assuming this isn't a rhetorical question, it doesn't apply to private entities, only the government.
   9. Howie Menckel Posted: February 23, 2020 at 11:42 PM (#5926122)
yes.
you can do all kinds of speech (basically outside of inciting riots or shouting "FIRE!" in a crowded theater, and no one will arrest you.

someone may take your sign, lay you off from your job, divorce you, and so on.

but the government isn't in on it. hence "freedom of speech." none of these signmakers are going to wind up in the pokey just because they brought a sign that stadium people don't like.
   10. SoSH U at work Posted: February 24, 2020 at 12:08 AM (#5926124)
I took the multiple question marks as a sign* that RR wasn't really making a First Amendment plea.

* Hopefully, no one steals (or merely confiscates) it.
   11. Walt Davis Posted: February 24, 2020 at 12:18 AM (#5926125)
someone may take your sign

Well, no, technically that's theft of your private property. Someone may deny you entry to their private property (or contracted event) unless you agree not to display (some) signs, etc.

lay you off from your job

Unless you're in a union (subject to CBA provisions) ... or were granted immunity. :-)

divorce you

Has anybody tried the "my spouse can't divorce me, that would violate my 1st amendment rights" argument? And I know these days we have no fault divorce not to mention irreconcilible differences but has "my husband is a racist" ever been deemed legal grounds for divorce? What about "my husband used modern video technology to steal signs in violation of a MLB memo?"

   12. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: February 25, 2020 at 11:08 AM (#5926333)
Astros not using regulars today (or last night) for what are essentially home games. Not as much fun booing the scrubs.


Still, it's important to do it anyway, just to ensure that the message is sent.
   13. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 25, 2020 at 11:12 AM (#5926336)
but the government isn't in on it. hence "freedom of speech." none of these signmakers are going to wind up in the pokey just because they brought a sign that stadium people don't like.

What if the stadium is owned by the Government?
   14. Ron J Posted: February 25, 2020 at 11:17 AM (#5926337)
#13 Unless it's actually operated by the government, won't matter.
   15. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 25, 2020 at 11:36 AM (#5926339)
#13 Unless it's actually operated by the government, won't matter.

That's an interesting point that's ripe for review. I know states are enforcing free speech provisions at state colleges and universities to prevent the banned of controversial speakers. Several have also required colleges to allow licensed firearms owners to carry on state campuses.

Seems like at a venue your tax dollars paid for you should be able to exercise your Constitutional rights.
   16. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: February 25, 2020 at 11:52 AM (#5926342)
I know these days we have no fault divorce not to mention irreconcilible differences but has "my husband is a racist" ever been deemed legal grounds for divorce?

California gonna California.
   17. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 25, 2020 at 12:28 PM (#5926345)
I know these days we have no fault divorce not to mention irreconcilible differences but has "my husband is a racist" ever been deemed legal grounds for divorce?

Not even an allegation of racism; the husband just said he was going to vote for Trump.
   18. Baldrick Posted: February 25, 2020 at 01:03 PM (#5926350)
Seems like at a venue your tax dollars paid for you should be able to exercise your Constitutional rights.

Would still be subject to 'time, place, and manner' restrictions, and I'm pretty sure that they could design a rule that would exclude holding up signs which attack one of the teams while sitting right behind their dugout.
   19. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: February 25, 2020 at 01:06 PM (#5926351)
Not even an allegation of racism; the husband just said he was going to vote for Trump.


Divorcing your husband because he's an ####### is a pretty time-honored tradition, with or without any associated racism.

It's usually just put on the books as "irreconcilable differences," though.
   20. RJ in TO Posted: February 25, 2020 at 01:16 PM (#5926355)
This article implies it was more of a final straw situation, rather than being the only reason.
   21. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: February 25, 2020 at 01:30 PM (#5926360)
What if the stadium was paid for by the citizens' taxes, then given to a billionaire as a form of welfare?
   22. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 25, 2020 at 01:32 PM (#5926361)
Would still be subject to 'time, place, and manner' restrictions, and I'm pretty sure that they could design a rule that would exclude holding up signs which attack one of the teams while sitting right behind their dugout.

I think that as long as the signs aren't obscene, and aren't making potentially slanderous allegations, or causing a disturbance, they should be allowed.

WTF is a sign with "Astros*" a problem for anyone but thin-skinned Astros employees?
   23. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: February 25, 2020 at 01:35 PM (#5926363)
Seems like at a venue your tax dollars paid for you should be able to exercise your Constitutional rights.


The Republicans barred firearms from their convention in 2016, held at a public venue in an open carry state.
   24. eric Posted: February 25, 2020 at 01:39 PM (#5926364)
Seems like at a venue your tax dollars paid for you should be able to exercise your Constitutional rights.


So people should be able to legally conceal carry into a courtroom? Or during a visit to the White House?
   25. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 25, 2020 at 02:04 PM (#5926372)
So people should be able to legally conceal carry into a courtroom? Or during a visit to the White House?

No, but that's because they provide armed security and screen everyone at the entrance. They should provide you with a secure place to check your firearm. Stadiums could prohibit firearms under the same guidelines.
   26. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: February 25, 2020 at 02:54 PM (#5926384)

No, but that's because they provide armed security and screen everyone at the entrance. They should provide you with a secure place to check your firearm. Stadiums could prohibit firearms under the same guidelines.


I guess I haven't looked closely at the second amendment lately.
   27. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: February 25, 2020 at 03:18 PM (#5926388)
So people should be able to legally conceal carry into a courtroom? Or during a visit to the White House?


In Kentucky, it's legal to openly carry inside the state capitol building, which seems like lunacy to me. Not only are you allowed to bring your rifle inside, they actually let you skip the metal detector if you have one.
   28. eric Posted: February 25, 2020 at 03:21 PM (#5926389)
No, but that's because they provide armed security and screen everyone at the entrance. They should provide you with a secure place to check your firearm.


At the risk of going OTP on this thread, I think it was the exact people providing this "armed security" that the writers of the constitution were most concerned about, not random wackos. But I do agree that having some form of protection against random wackos is preferred.
   29. Khrushin it bro Posted: February 25, 2020 at 03:25 PM (#5926394)
The Astros start spring training by stealing signs.
   30. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 25, 2020 at 03:26 PM (#5926395)
At the risk of going OTP on this thread, I think it was the exact people providing this "armed security" that the writers of the constitution were most concerned about, not random wackos. But I do agree that having some form of protection against random wackos is preferred.

Sure, but any potential resistance against tyranny is going to be based on long guns kept at home, not small compact pistols that people carry for self-defense.

If you go to a courthouse that provides armed security and screens entrants for weapons, I'm pretty comfortable you're safe within that building. At least the Gov't is warranting that you're safe. They should be legally liable if their security fails and you are not safe.
   31. SoSH U at work Posted: February 25, 2020 at 03:27 PM (#5926396)
In Kentucky, it's legal to openly carry inside the state capitol building, which seems like lunacy to me. Not only are you allowed to bring your rifle inside, they actually let you skip the metal detector if you have one.


Which raises the question of what metals the commonwealth is trying to detect.

   32. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 25, 2020 at 03:28 PM (#5926397)

In Kentucky, it's legal to openly carry inside the state capitol building, which seems like lunacy to me. Not only are you allowed to bring your rifle inside, they actually let you skip the metal detector if you have one.


I'm hugely pro-2nd Amendment, but I think open-carry is dumb. It's a political stunt. You don't want the bad guys knowing who is carrying; that vastly reduces the deterrent effect, and tells them exactly who to shoot first if they're intent on violence. There's a reason air marshals don't wear uniforms.
   33. The Yankee Clapper Posted: February 25, 2020 at 03:33 PM (#5926399)
The recorded lead-in coming back from commercial on the Blue Jays radio broadcast: “Love the Blue Jays as much as you hate the Yankees & Red Sox … AND THE ASTROS!”
   34. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: February 25, 2020 at 03:51 PM (#5926401)
I'm hugely pro-2nd Amendment, but I think open-carry is dumb. It's a political stunt. You don't want the bad guys knowing who is carrying; that vastly reduces the deterrent effect, and tells them exactly who to shoot first if they're intent on violence. There's a reason air marshals don't wear uniforms.


Also, one of these guys could just un-shoulder their rifle and shoot someone with no warning. That seems like the larger issue to me, in a building full of unarmed politicians and civil servants.
   35. PreservedFish Posted: February 25, 2020 at 04:23 PM (#5926408)
When you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail, and when you bring a ballglove to the stadium, every single pitch is sure to be a foul ball headed your way. I can only imagine the type of vigilante fantasies that are constantly running through the heads of the ########## that proudly make a point of carrying their guns into Starbucks and Walmart.
   36. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 25, 2020 at 04:43 PM (#5926412)
Also, one of these guys could just un-shoulder their rifle and shoot someone with no warning. That seems like the larger issue to me, in a building full of unarmed politicians and civil servants.

Sure. I'm saying even from the point of view of the person carrying with only legitimate defensive aims, open carry is pointless.

Of course perimeter security only means that the nut jobs shoot innocent people on the street, just like it causes suicide bombers to blow themselves up outside the venue. You move the casualties, but you don't prevent them.
   37. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: February 25, 2020 at 04:43 PM (#5926413)
that proudly make a point of carrying their guns into Starbucks and Walmart.



and airports
   38. Due to the leadership of Zonk... Posted: February 25, 2020 at 05:37 PM (#5926421)
A reasonable compromise would be letting poor, put upon cray pants trolls like Milo Yiannopoulus or Richard Spencer speak on campus but only in venues where all sorts of firearms and weapons are allowed.

There, snowflakes. I solved your problem

You’re welcome.

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