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Monday, April 10, 2023

Former Astros player admits to PED use and sign stealing in Twitter rant

For no other reason than what we have to assume he felt like it, Gattis took to Twitter on Monday and was a completely open book. But in doing so, he made numerous admissions about his individual role in the sign stealing scandal.

Specifically, Gattis not only admitted that his home run in Game 7 of the ALCS against the New York Yankees was a “trash can bang”, but that he was probably on PEDs at points of the season as well.

Though his Twitter feed was full of a number of admissions and revelations in his own tweets and certainly in the replies, perhaps the funniest one of all was talking about how he and the Astros knew what was coming from Yu Darvish and they still couldn’t put up a run on the now-Padres pitcher.

Reader Comments and Retorts

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   1. The Duke Posted: April 10, 2023 at 11:29 PM (#6123457)
Just what Manfred wanted to see out there. I personally hope it revives the story as there is certainly more than what we heard
   2. Walt Davis Posted: April 10, 2023 at 11:33 PM (#6123458)
1. Don't tweet when drunk.

2. After tweeting while drunk, claim somebody hacked your Twitter.

3. Or check how much you have left from your $16.6 M in career earnings and, if you like what you see, say \"#### it."
   3. lindaliz Posted: April 10, 2023 at 11:53 PM (#6123463)
Either way, this action deserves criticism, he needs to fleeing the complex before he does anything
   4. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: April 11, 2023 at 12:20 AM (#6123466)
Well he was definitely on the 'roids when he hit 11!!! triples in 2015.

Seriously, we all watch a lot of baseball, but his 11!!! triples has to be near the top of "weird sh*t that happened in baseball"
   5. Hombre Brotani Posted: April 11, 2023 at 12:37 AM (#6123467)
1. Don't tweet when drunk.
Gattis didn't sound drunk, he sounded like someone who was having a momentary meltdown, maybe more than a momentary one.
   6. cardsfanboy Posted: April 11, 2023 at 12:51 AM (#6123469)
Gattis being on roids is about the least surprising thing ever uttered.
   7. Walt Davis Posted: April 11, 2023 at 12:58 AM (#6123470)
he sounded like someone who was having a momentary meltdown

That never happens when you're drunk!!

(I'm just joking around.)

Seriously, we all watch a lot of baseball, but his 11!!! triples has to be near the top of "weird sh*t that happened in baseball"

Ron Santo had 67 career triples ... Rickey Henderson had 66. Santo led the NL in 1964 with 13.
   8. John Reynard Posted: April 11, 2023 at 02:57 AM (#6123473)
Ron Santo had 67 career triples ... Rickey Henderson had 66.


Rickey once was asked "why so few triples with your speed?"

Rickey's answer was something like "Rickey knows when the outfielders have better arms than the catchers and just waits to steal 3rd."

I wish I could find the source of the quote. Not all print media from the 80s is googleable.
   9. Walt Davis Posted: April 11, 2023 at 08:46 AM (#6123482)
Sure but also at 66: Bobby Bonds, Derek Jeter, Amos Otis. Rickey had almost 4000 more PA than Santo; Jeter over 3000.

Brett and Jimmy Collins had lots of triples and I think are the 3B leaders. Chipper and Beltre had just 38.

Still, other than the fact it's obviously a trick question, you go into a bar and bet who had more triples, Santo or Rickey ... or Jeter if you're in NY.
   10. Ithaca2323 Posted: April 11, 2023 at 09:12 AM (#6123483)
If you look at the YouTube video of Gattis' triples, in his infamous 11-triple season

#3 was a misplay/weird bounce off the wall
#4 saw the CF fall down after missing a ball at the top of the hill
#6 was a missed catch that could have been an error
#7 was another misplay off the wall
#8 was another missed catch
#10 was another misplay off the wall
#11 the fielder misjudged the ball and then literally just fell down

I don't know if I've ever seen one player benefit from so many odd bounces in one season
   11. Random Transaction Generator Posted: April 11, 2023 at 09:25 AM (#6123486)
I think it was in a later posting that the PED he was taking was Adderall.
   12. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: April 11, 2023 at 10:14 AM (#6123492)
The entire league is still taking PEDs. You think these guys are eating wheaties? Maybe half of them are on the correct side of the vague line that is called "legal".

   13. God can’t be all that impressed with Charles S. Posted: April 11, 2023 at 10:22 AM (#6123495)
Ron Santo had 67 career triples ... Rickey Henderson had 66. Santo led the NL in 1964 with 13.

Not so weird. Santo still had both legs at the time.
   14. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: April 11, 2023 at 10:35 AM (#6123497)
Ernie banks had 90. One third of them after knee problems forced him to move to first base.
   15. SoSH U at work Posted: April 11, 2023 at 10:40 AM (#6123498)
Ron Santo had 67 career triples ... Rickey Henderson had 66.


Rickey never took much advantage of his speed when it came to batting. He didn't hit a lot of doubles or triples. He had good but not great ROE and GDP avoidance numbers.
   16. Booey Posted: April 11, 2023 at 11:21 AM (#6123499)
Jim Rice's 79 triples always kind of surprised me. I missed most his career, but I guess I always just saw him as the stereotypical big, slow footed slugger in the McGwire/Thome/Frank Thomas mold (only without the walks). But he somehow posted back to back seasons of 15 triples in 1977-1978! I guess he was fast in his younger years? Never stole many bases though, even in an era when lots of players did...
   17. Itchy Row Posted: April 11, 2023 at 11:25 AM (#6123500)
Don Baylor never hit a lot of triples, but he was one of the big and slow McGwire/Thome/Thomas sluggers by the time I started watching. He had a 52 stolen base season in 1976 and had at least 22 every year between 1972 and 1979. I thought it was an error the first time I saw that on his baseball card, but I never got rich off that non-error card.
   18. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: April 11, 2023 at 11:28 AM (#6123501)
Rickey stole 3rd 322 times, which is more than all but one active player's total SBs.
   19. PeteF3 Posted: April 11, 2023 at 11:30 AM (#6123502)
I would imagine Rickey wasn't all that fast out of the box, with that hunched-over stance of his.
   20. SoSH U at work Posted: April 11, 2023 at 11:40 AM (#6123504)

I would imagine Rickey wasn't all that fast out of the box, with that hunched-over stance of his.


I imagine that played a small part, yes.
   21. BDC Posted: April 11, 2023 at 11:40 AM (#6123505)
Ernie Banks had 90

Here's a factoid: during the years that Banks played road games at the Polo Grounds (1954-57; 62-63), he hit 6 of the 301 triples that were hit there. Only Willie Mays (28), Charlie Neal (9), and Jim Hickman (7) hit more. Of course there's four Giant and two Mets years involved, so visitors tend to be high on that useless leaderboard (Snider, Mathews, Aaron, etc.) But the only parks where Banks hit more career triples were Wrigley (42) and Forbes (7) – Forbes was the best triples park of that era.
   22. The Mighty Quintana Posted: April 11, 2023 at 11:42 AM (#6123506)
Generally, lefties hit almost twice as many triples per at bat. A lot longer throw to third from right field...plus they have that step advantage out of the box. Also, having played some right in high school, lefties balls do weird things in the wind I swear! (It wasn't me coach...)
   23. Howie Menckel Posted: April 11, 2023 at 11:58 AM (#6123507)
Jim Rice's 79 triples always kind of surprised me. I missed most his career, but I guess I always just saw him as the stereotypical big, slow footed slugger in the McGwire/Thome/Frank Thomas mold (only without the walks).

I would imagine a lot of those were at oddly-configured Fenway Park?
   24. McCoy Posted: April 11, 2023 at 12:02 PM (#6123509)
Rickey was a right handed hitter. He wasn't going to have a ton of triples. He also didn't steal third a whole lot.
   25. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: April 11, 2023 at 12:58 PM (#6123515)

I would imagine a lot of those were at oddly-configured Fenway Park?

Sort of. 44 at home vs. 35 on the road for his career. An even 15/15 split during 1977-1978.
   26. cHiEf iMpaCt oFfiCEr JE Posted: April 11, 2023 at 01:12 PM (#6123517)
Gattis on 2017 overall: I did worse that year than all other years
   27. cHiEf iMpaCt oFfiCEr JE Posted: April 11, 2023 at 01:12 PM (#6123518)
Double post.
   28. JRVJ Posted: April 11, 2023 at 01:29 PM (#6123521)
Rickey was a right handed hitter. He wasn't going to have a ton of triples. He also didn't steal third a whole lot.


According to this article, Rickey stole third base 322 times, many more than the 4 next players with most SBs. 22.9%, as per the article.

Yes, he mostly stole second, but nobody came close to Rickey in re: stealing third.
   29. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: April 11, 2023 at 01:59 PM (#6123525)
I would imagine Rickey wasn't all that fast out of the box, with that hunched-over stance of his.


When it came to getting out of the batters box, Rickey was the slowest fast guy.

Rickey always said third was easier because you could get much bigger leads.

JRVJ, great link, thanks.
   30. McCoy Posted: April 11, 2023 at 02:47 PM (#6123529)
Rickey tried to steal second something like 32 percent of the time when it wasn't occupied. He tried to steal third 12% of the time when it wasn't occupied.
   31. Walt Davis Posted: April 11, 2023 at 03:47 PM (#6123536)
For those not remembering, Santo (and Banks and Rice and Gattis) batted RH too.

The young Baylor was fast. That version of Baylor also didn't hit many HRs. I don't remember if he got hurt or just older and fatter. Not that I have a very clear picture of young Baylor but I recall more of a George Hendrick type. Chili Davis maybe the best comp -- broke in as a CF, pretty much full-time DH (and substantially bulkier) by 31. In part because of my name dyslexia, as a kid I often confused Baylor and Baker ... then they both became managers, including of the Cubs. But none of Hendrick, Davis or Baker stole bases like Baylor did; Chili, a BHB, leads in triples at a meagre 30.
   32. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: April 11, 2023 at 03:48 PM (#6123537)
Rickey tried to steal second something like 32 percent of the time when it wasn't occupied. He tried to steal third 12% of the time when it wasn't occupied.


There's no bad time to steal second. As the old adage goes, you don't want to make the first or 3rd out at 3rd, so that cuts way down on the opportunities.
   33. BDC Posted: April 11, 2023 at 04:01 PM (#6123541)
I remember Don Baylor always looking like a football player, and indeed he was a football star at Stephen F. Austin High School in Austin. The page itself seems to have vanished, but if you Google "don baylor football stephen f austin high school" there is a picture from an old Hardball Times piece showing Baylor with HS baseball teammates – he looks like he could break any of them in half :)
   34. Hombre Brotani Posted: April 11, 2023 at 04:39 PM (#6123544)
Thanks for the recommend, BCD. That Hardball Times essay was really moving.
   35. Rough Carrigan Posted: April 11, 2023 at 04:49 PM (#6123548)
#16. Rice was a guy who wasn't quick, even when young but could get up to a good speed once he got going. And Fenway's a pretty good triples park for righthanded hitters. With the CF pulled over toward left center for a big hitting righty he's got a long run to get to the triangle just right of dead center. For a big hitting lefty the CF might be pulled over right in front of the triangle so it's not quite as conducive to triples by lefties.
   36. gehrig97 Posted: April 11, 2023 at 04:59 PM (#6123550)
@33: I can't recall the exact quote, but it went something along the lines of "When Don Baylor gets hit by a pitch, I feel bad for the ball." He was built like a brick you-know-what.
   37. McCoy Posted: April 11, 2023 at 05:01 PM (#6123551)
Wall?
   38. Perry Posted: April 11, 2023 at 05:19 PM (#6123555)
Thanks for the recommend, BCD. That Hardball Times essay was really moving.


Seconded.
   39. Walt Davis Posted: April 11, 2023 at 05:36 PM (#6123556)
The first link is about the longest I've ever seen, hope it doesn't break the thread.

The internet is not exactly over-run with images from Baylor's O's days. Here's one claiming to be from 1973. Another one, not sure of the year, looks a bit more filled out to me. That guy's obviously an athlete but we're not talking Frank Thomas (or Frank Howard). In his latter years, for sure, his arms were Bagwellian, maybe even McGwirean.
   40. Starring Bradley Scotchman as RMc Posted: April 11, 2023 at 06:45 PM (#6123563)
A lot longer throw to third from right field

I got yer throw from right field to third base right here...
   41. Vailsoxfan Posted: April 11, 2023 at 06:54 PM (#6123564)
Jim Rice definitely took advantage of the triangle. He took a lot of balls to the right center alley on a line. Those would frequently rattle around those angles at 420 if they got through.
   42. Eric J can SABER all he wants to Posted: April 11, 2023 at 07:44 PM (#6123573)
If you want a fun home/road split for triples, check out Willie Stargell. 33 of his 55 triples were hit in Forbes Field, which doesn't sound too surprising... until you realize that Forbes was the Pirates' home park for less than half of his career. Stargell tripled once every 51 AB in Forbes, compared to 1/166 for Three Rivers (and far less often than that on the road, his home/road split overall is 46/9).
   43. Best Dressed Chicken in Town Posted: April 11, 2023 at 08:05 PM (#6123575)
I would imagine Rickey wasn't all that fast out of the box, with that hunched-over stance of his.

I think his swing kind of corkscrewed him into the box as well, so he had to unwind before moving.
   44. Hank Gillette Posted: April 11, 2023 at 10:04 PM (#6123610)
Rickey always said third was easier because you could get much bigger leads.
I believe that Ty Cobb said that as well.
   45. SoSH U at work Posted: April 11, 2023 at 10:21 PM (#6123618)
You certainly can get larger leads. On the other hand, the throw from the catcher to third is about 37 feet shorter than the one to second. And, as Misirlou said, the times when it makes sense to steal third are more limited than the times where stealing second is a good percentage play.
   46. baxter Posted: April 11, 2023 at 11:06 PM (#6123631)
33. Baylor probably could have broken them in half. I forget if it was a Jim Murray column or game of the week commentator talking about a baseball fight; that most ballplayers did not know how to fight, but the one who did was Baylor.
   47. bjhanke Posted: April 12, 2023 at 03:31 AM (#6123683)
RE #11:

Heh. According to the Hall of Fame electors, Adderall is not a PED at all. As a PED, it is essentially a low-grade amphetamine, completely in the group that contains "greenies" from the 1960s. The electors have NO problem with players form the 1960s being in the HoF, although it is widely known that just about all of them took greenies, sometimes in very large does ("Handfuls"). And yes I think the electors are guilty of monumental hypocrisy about PEDs.
   48. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: April 12, 2023 at 02:07 PM (#6123734)
FTR that trash can homer in game 7 of the ALCS was Gattis's only hit of the entire series.

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