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Sunday, February 21, 2021

Full Transcript of Mariners President Kevin Mather’s Remarks to Bellevue Breakfast Rotary Club

Some very candid remarks from the Mariners president on everything from free agents, when we will see fans, minor league shuffling, and paying for interpreters.

Kyle Seager, this is probably his last season as a Mariner. He will, and I’ve already told him, he’ll be a Mariners Hall of Famer when he’s done playing. Last year he seemed to find the Fountain of Youth, had a fantastic year, and we expect the same in 2021…..

On the minor league side, Jarred Kelenic, we’ve been talking about him for a year and a half now. He’ll be in left field in April. He’s a 21-year-old player who, um, is quite confident. We offered him a long-term deal, six-year deal for substantial money with options to go farther. After pondering it for several days and talking to the union, he’s turned us down and in his words, he’s going to bet on himself. He thinks after six years, he’ll be such a star player that the 7th, 8th, 9th year options will be under value. He might be right, he might be right, we offered and he turned us down.

 

RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 21, 2021 at 04:18 PM | 227 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: mariners

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   1. JRVJ Posted: February 21, 2021 at 04:48 PM (#6006120)
That's a really interesting transcript.

Would love to hear Kelenic's side of things. At least as portrayed here, he's an incredibly cocky and confident young man.

And the last section on Asian players might have been a bit dismissive of their qualms about speaking English (there's supposed to be a cultural issue regarding this in Japan. The Economist has a story here that speaks about so-called "English Allergy" amongst the Japanese).
   2. The Duke Posted: February 21, 2021 at 05:17 PM (#6006121)
The comments In lookout landing are almost 100% negative but I thought it was refreshing and gives a ton of insight on all manner of issues from
Covid, to managing young players, to team dynamics. There’s some stuff there better left unsaid but it is no doubt an unvarnished vision into how ownership thinks.
   3. . . . . . . Posted: February 21, 2021 at 06:34 PM (#6006127)
The shitting on Kelenic for not signing a contract that’s club-favorable is in pretty bad taste.
   4. asinwreck Posted: February 21, 2021 at 07:22 PM (#6006132)
The comments about Iwakuma and the "Far East" might be the ones to give the boardroom most pause.
   5. RickG Posted: February 21, 2021 at 07:43 PM (#6006136)
I was front and center for the absolute debacle that was Aroldis Chapman's introduction as a Cub. My number 1 takeaway was that the Cubs absolutely failed Chapman (for all his faults). They did not employ an interpreter, turning instead to Henry Blanco to facilitate. He might have spoken both languages (and he is a super nice guy), but he was otherwise completely ill-equipped for that situation.

The $75,000 the M's are paying the interpreter is a PR expense above everything else, and well worth its cost. I'm legitimately shocked Mather doesn't see that.
   6. The Yankee Clapper Posted: February 21, 2021 at 07:46 PM (#6006137)
Looks like an owner who is fairly knowledgeable about his team, which seems good, and is publicly optimistic about its future. That shouldn’t be unusual. Don’t see any real faux pas, just someone providing an owner’s perspective.
   7. base ball chick Posted: February 21, 2021 at 08:56 PM (#6006146)
except, like zop says, the shtttting on kelenic for not signing a contract giving the owner more $$$
   8. The Yankee Clapper Posted: February 21, 2021 at 09:22 PM (#6006148)
I don’t see him shtttting on Kelenic, since he says the kid is a betting on himself, and might be right to do so. The owner merely mildly laments that he wasn’t able to sign a talented prospect for some of his free agent years. Not harsh at all, and shouldn’t be a big deal. Don’t we all know that owners are interested in such deals when they think they have a potential star, as are some of those players?
   9. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 21, 2021 at 10:08 PM (#6006153)
FWIW, Mather is not the owner (he may have an ownership share), he is the club president. John Stanton is the principal owner. In 2018, he had to apologize for his workplace conduct.
   10. Mayor Blomberg Posted: February 21, 2021 at 10:49 PM (#6006156)
Good to see that Donald Sterling is back in the sports world.
   11. Howie Menckel Posted: February 21, 2021 at 11:27 PM (#6006163)
I don't see the "shitting on Kelenic," either.

I don't agree with the owner, but it's not surprising that's how an owner would see it. he concedes the player may win this one.
   12. reech Posted: February 21, 2021 at 11:31 PM (#6006165)
This thing has now blown up. The Athletic running an article to dump him and the Mariners to make an announcement..
Good chance he is fired tomorrow.
   13. Walt Davis Posted: February 21, 2021 at 11:37 PM (#6006167)
Need good rumors on the details but I think the record for pre-promotion contract is Luis Robert at 6/$50, nicely front-loaded, with 2/$40 in options (which could be huge bargains).
   14. Roger Cedeno's Spleen Posted: February 22, 2021 at 01:14 AM (#6006171)
The virgin Brandon Taubman and the Chad Kevin Mather.
   15. Mayor Blomberg Posted: February 22, 2021 at 02:23 AM (#6006176)
“Rodriguez is friendly, engaging and insists on doing all his interviews in English, of which he has perfect command despite growing up in the Dominican Republic and not coming to the United States until this past season.”

Larry Stone, Seattle Times (2019)

“He is loud, his English is not tremendous.”
Kevin Mathers, 2021
   16. asinwreck Posted: February 22, 2021 at 09:00 AM (#6006187)
My favorite part of Mather's apology statement is this:
My comments were my own. They do not reflect the views and strategy of the Mariners baseball leadership who are responsible for decisions about the development and status of the players at all levels of the organization.

His appearance was in his role as president of the organization speaking about the past, present, and future of the organization. If ever there was a time that "my comments were my own" is not going to be convincing, this is it.
   17. The Duke Posted: February 22, 2021 at 10:00 AM (#6006200)
Yeah, they actually perfectly represent the view of the leadership which is why they are so very interesting. It’s a shame he couldn’t work in “this isn’t who I am” . I have a particular fondness for that kind of grovel
   18. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 22, 2021 at 10:21 AM (#6006202)
The full apology statement:


My comments were my own. They do not reflect the views and strategy of the Mariners baseball leadership who are responsible and there's a drive into deep left field by Castellanos and that'll be a home run. And so that'll make it a 4-0 ballgame.
   19. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: February 22, 2021 at 11:02 AM (#6006209)
He hand-waves away that he may have completed wasted $24M on Evan White, while ######## that a translater costs $75k a year. (FYI, that is 320x as much money)

And he is a "numbers guy"?
   20. bookbook Posted: February 22, 2021 at 11:26 AM (#6006210)
If Seattle wants to recruit future Latino or Asian players, they will remove him from the position today. If they don’t remove him, the challenge of competing in Seattle will suffer irreparable damage.
   21. The Duke Posted: February 22, 2021 at 01:41 PM (#6006222)
19. This attitude about SG & A costs vs product costs (salaries) permeates baseball and industry generally. They are budgeted for and managed separately. It’s almost comical how managers have no qualms about paying 2/3 million for a Ty Wigginton at the end of his useful career but won’t buy an extra box of paper clips to “save” money
   22. asinwreck Posted: February 22, 2021 at 04:02 PM (#6006251)
@RyanDivish
Kevin Mather has resigned his position.
   23. gef, talking mongoose & suburban housewife Posted: February 22, 2021 at 04:26 PM (#6006255)
Can't help wondering if this wasn't perhaps a slight case of in vino veritas.
   24. reech Posted: February 22, 2021 at 04:36 PM (#6006257)
And done...
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/30946443/seattle-mariners-president-ceo-kevin-mather-resigns-comments
   25. greenback used to say live and let live Posted: February 22, 2021 at 06:18 PM (#6006269)
Kevin Mather is loud, his English is not tremendous.
   26. JRVJ Posted: February 22, 2021 at 07:25 PM (#6006278)
Mr. Mather needed Crash Davis to teach him how to do interviews.
   27. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 22, 2021 at 07:54 PM (#6006282)
Just a matter of time before he announces his own newsletter on substack
   28. Jesse Barfield's Right Arm Posted: February 22, 2021 at 08:18 PM (#6006285)
but I thought it was refreshing and gives a ton of insight


Don’t see any real faux pas


Strong takes. The businesses of the future uninterested in East Asian or Latin American customers will surely want to hear more.
   29. bookbook Posted: February 22, 2021 at 08:18 PM (#6006286)
Kevin Mather may not require 75k translators, or use up many $30 parking lots, but he has cost the Mariners much much more in lost goodwill among fans and players, current as well as potential recruits.
   30. dejarouehg Posted: February 22, 2021 at 08:58 PM (#6006290)
When I first heard the comments, I thought that was what Charles Barkley would say if he ran a team.

I just don't get the outrage.

What he said about Seager? Who cares? Kelenic? Precisely what was so offensive?

The comment about Julio was doubly stupid if it's not true, as was stated in 15 above.

As for the interpreter, teams will spend stupidly on a player. Generally speaking, they will not on anything scouting-related or below upper management level. This is why front offices let go entire staffs during the pandemic when the combined salaries of those people was the equivalent of a back-up veteran infielder. Foreign scouts often promote their ability to speak multiple languages. They don't have interpreters.

I have (commercial) tenants who speak English perfectly well, until I have to take them to court and then all-of-a-sudden, faster than you can say "Sammy Sosa," their English goes in the toilet and they ask for an interpreter. And, everyone in the courthouse, from the judge on down, all know it's utter b.s.

   31. Mike A Posted: February 22, 2021 at 09:32 PM (#6006293)
There's a 10 minute interview in English with Rodriguez on YouTube. He's got an accent, sure, but he's engaging and well-spoken. His English is perfectly fine. This is a kid who was so excited conducting his first English interview in 2018 that he called his parents afterwards.

Rodriguez seems to have taken Mather's comments personally, and can't say I blame him. Why on earth would Mather take such a gratuitous shot at one of his top prospects? It makes no sense.

Couple that with Mather's other comments and past behavior, and yeah, I can see why he got the heave-ho. I don't get why it's so hard for people to act professionally.
   32. Mayor Blomberg Posted: February 22, 2021 at 09:42 PM (#6006297)
Why on earth would Mather take such a gratuitous shot at one of his top prospects? It makes no sense.

It was a segue to another shot on Kelenic
   33. reech Posted: February 22, 2021 at 10:17 PM (#6006298)
and it appears the players are taking note:

Josh Donaldson @BringerOfRain20

Thank you Kevin Mather. I sincerely mean it. You just said what everyone already knew, but now we @MLB_PLAYERS have official evidence that is going to help a lot of players. Again, thank you!! Bravo
   34. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 22, 2021 at 10:37 PM (#6006300)
What I don't understand is how this guy survived a sexual harassment case that was credible enough that the team is reported ti have shelled out $500G.
   35. Lowry Seasoning Salt Posted: February 22, 2021 at 10:41 PM (#6006301)
   36. base ball chick Posted: February 22, 2021 at 10:54 PM (#6006302)
and WHY would mather bother to even bring up the fact that his top prospect and his former pitcher don't speak english as well as people who were born here and speak it as a first language?

vlad guerrero is the only spanish speaker ballplayer i know of who didn't/wouldn't learn enough english to even communicate with his teammates in english (or at least i remember hearing that). almost all ballplayers learn enough english to speak baseball. that is NOT being fluent in english or speaking english like a native born speaker

which is hella different than wanting an interpreter to speak to reporters who are always looking for a gotcha, AND god forbid, someone from the legal system

i've noticed how much contempt many native english speakers have for someone who has an accent. that whatshername hispanic actress in the 60s/70s made her accent her whole comedy routine, that she didn speck da inlis so good, hahahaha. old comedy routines used to be making fun of people with accents and stereotyping them (all dumb or floozy or inscrutable or drunk or greasy or something else sooooooo funny)

i have been told by a whole LOT of people who didn't grow up with english as a first language that it is really hard to get rid of an accent and to speak like a native speaker with the confidence of a native speaker. you always make mistakes. i have been told by people who speak more than 2 languages that english is THE hardest language to learn to speak because our language has no rules and is mostly slang

as for using interpreters, david N told me to NEVER to answer questions from cops. to always have an attorney speaks for you. and you betcher azz if english was not my first language, i would ALWAYS have an intrepreter speak for me. and no matter HOW well i spoke language #2 if i was in some other country whose native language was that language you betcher AZZ i would want an interpreter to deal with anything legal. i'm amused that some of youse guys think you wouldn't need THAT.

and why some of yall think that mather dissing his prospects, players, scouts to an audience of supposed mariners fan is no biggie i do not get.

   37. Mayor Blomberg Posted: February 22, 2021 at 11:15 PM (#6006304)
i have been told by a whole LOT of people who didn't grow up with english as a first language that it is really hard to get rid of an accent and to speak like a native speaker with the confidence of a native speaker. you always make mistakes. i have been told by people who speak more than 2 languages that english is THE hardest language to learn to speak because our language has no rules and is mostly slang

Yes, and yes. Good luck explaining prepositions , or to speakers of many languages, the niceties of definite article use.
Alternatively try living somewhere more challenging than the UK and not falling back on the belief that "they all know enough English" to get by.
   38. base ball chick Posted: February 22, 2021 at 11:49 PM (#6006305)
i knew a man who used to carry a pad and pen and pretend he was mostly deaf so as folks would have to write down the words because he could read english pretty well but had a terrible time understanding texan. (heck some amurcans have a hard tahm understandin texan)

first day he was here he got told "commondon ron 1 woolmitcha" (come on down around 1, we'll meet you - heck, he had trouble with the "around" 1) which kind of doesn't translate real too good in the ol google translator you know what im sayin

   39. Powderhorn™, arrogant local sailing champion Posted: February 23, 2021 at 12:06 AM (#6006306)
I have (commercial) tenants who speak English perfectly well, until I have to take them to court and then all-of-a-sudden, faster than you can say "Sammy Sosa," their English goes in the toilet and they ask for an interpreter. And, everyone in the courthouse, from the judge on down, all know it's utter b.s.
If I'm brought to court in a non-English-speaking country, no matter how well I think I know the local language, I'm asking for an interpreter. Not knowing how to speak in court in your second or third language isn't something I would hold against someone.


Edit: I should've kept reading. What BBC said.
   40. puck Posted: February 23, 2021 at 01:54 AM (#6006311)
I suppose what strikes me about what he said is it's so banal. He's trying to get people excited about the future of the Mariners but what really gets him going is talking about how he bought his sneakers on sale.
   41. Snowboy Posted: February 23, 2021 at 01:55 AM (#6006312)
i've noticed how much contempt many native english speakers have for someone who has an accent.

i have been told by a whole LOT of people who didn't grow up with english as a first language that it is really hard to get rid of an accent and to speak like a native speaker with the confidence of a native speaker.


We have this issue in Canada, which is officially bilingual. In the US, it's only unofficially also Spanish. But there are certain places you wouldn't want to go without knowing good Spanish, and wouldn't be able to run a business there or get elected there without it, right?

Anyway speaking of politicians, it can be an actually deciding factor in a leader up here whether they can converse in both official languages, and even the degree to which their accent may sound natural or foreign.

Canada had Jean Chretein as Prime Minister 1993-2003, and he spoke english with a distinguishable french accent (so it wasn't a mortal issue for his career, but it was in plain sight, and sometimes made him an easy target for ridicule.) People sometimes have trouble coming up with pronunciations which do not exist in their native language. For example, in french the "h" is usually silent, or if it's paired with a "c" is makes a "sh" sound in speech. Hotel in french comes out 'otel, "shirt" in french is chemise and is said "shemise". So little wonder non-english speakers stumble when "character" is pronounced as a /k/ but it all /ch/ch/ch/ "changes" sometimes.

Chretein apparently tried hard to "fix" his accent, but could never do it. And it wasn't a matter of intelligence, he was by all non-partisan accounts very smart. But he tended to pronounce his "h" silent, and drop the "s" at the end of pluralized english words. So it would come out "it's a -ot day, but da baseball team look- good."

I remember some talk at the time from linguistic folks that because Chretein was raised in an exclusively french area, he had never even heard english until he was 12, or 14, or maybe it wasn't until university? But they said you'll almost always maintain your original accent into another language if you're never even heard it by that age. Probably the same when adult english speakers try to learn french, spanish, or chinese, or cree?

Sorry, can't find a link. But it has always struck me as believable, and I've never thought people who spoke english with their native accent were lacking intelligence, but maybe that their ear hadn't heard it until they already had an adult brain.
   42. SoSH U at work Posted: February 23, 2021 at 08:47 AM (#6006323)
People sometimes have trouble coming up with pronunciations which do not exist in their native language.


People sometimes have trouble coming up with pronunciations that do exist in their native language. Ask someone from the U.S. to say the words marry/Mary/merry. In certain areas of the country, all three words are pronounced differently. In others, they sound identical, and those individuals often can't even make them sound differently.
   43. reech Posted: February 23, 2021 at 09:35 AM (#6006328)
I'm born and bred in New Yawk City.

Most people don't understand my "language" when I'm speaking to them.

   44. gef, talking mongoose & suburban housewife Posted: February 23, 2021 at 10:22 AM (#6006333)
To the older lady next door when I was a teenager, my mother's first name was MAY-ree.

Which was even odder because her name was Susan.

Try the roast beef! I'll be here all week.
   45. gef, talking mongoose & suburban housewife Posted: February 23, 2021 at 10:25 AM (#6006335)
And then there was my now-deceased cousin on my father's side whose name -- evoking, somewhat, elements of Snowboy's post above -- was Cheryl; the family used the same ch- pronunciation as in chair.

And the former business reporter at my newspaper in Little Rock whose first name was Theo, pronounced Tay-oh.

Also the Arkansas state legislator whose first name (presumably a diminutive, but who knows? my dad's first name was Billy on his birth certificate), Billi, was pronounced Bill-eye.
   46. puck Posted: February 23, 2021 at 10:31 AM (#6006337)
I can never remember if "Porgy" has a soft or hard "g."
   47. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: February 23, 2021 at 10:39 AM (#6006339)
And the former business reporter at my newspaper in Little Rock whose first name was Theo, pronounced Tay-oh.
Without looking it up...Theo Francis?
   48. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: February 23, 2021 at 11:02 AM (#6006344)
People sometimes have trouble coming up with pronunciations that do exist in their native language. Ask someone from the U.S. to say the words marry/Mary/merry. In certain areas of the country, all three words are pronounced differently. In others, they sound identical, and those individuals often can't even make them sound differently.

I hadn't heard this one before. I am in the "can't make them sound differently" camp.

reddit has a map: https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/7l1wkr/how_marrymarymerry_are_pronounced_by_us_state/
   49. SoSH U at work Posted: February 23, 2021 at 11:09 AM (#6006346)
I hadn't heard this one before. I am in the "can't make them sound differently" camp.

reddit has a map: https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/7l1wkr/how_marrymarymerry_are_pronounced_by_us_state/


I discovered it when I went to school in the Midwest from New York. For a lot of my schoolmates, there might be a slight difference between merry and Mary (though all tending to sound like Mary), but they weren't even capable of saying marry with the "a" in cat the way a fellow New Yorker and I could. Their efforts were similar to the pathetic sound I made trying to roll my Rs in Spanish class.
   50. gef, talking mongoose & suburban housewife Posted: February 23, 2021 at 11:11 AM (#6006347)
Without looking it up...Theo Francis?


You are correct. Good guy. His (then-future) wife was a reporter on the news side, where I was night (& later weekend) city editor, & later worked for NPR online, I believe.

(Unfortunately, her mother was a COVID-19 visitor during the summer, dying at the hospital where she'd worked & presumably contracted it.)
   51. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: February 23, 2021 at 11:56 AM (#6006360)
You are correct. Good guy. His (then-future) wife was a reporter on the news side, where I was night (& later weekend) city editor, & later worked for NPR online, I believe.

(Unfortunately, her mother was a COVID-19 visitor during the summer, dying at the hospital where she'd worked & presumably contracted it.)
Oh no...his wife was a college friend of mine, Jen Liberto. Really sorry to hear that about her mom. I went to high school with Theo (he was a few years ahead), and it was very small-world when Jen started dating him.
   52. Mayor Blomberg Posted: February 23, 2021 at 12:05 PM (#6006362)
Between Trump and Sanders, there may be a lull in the prejudice against NY accents, but Southern accents incite negative judgment in much of the US.
   53. Starring Bradley Scotchman as RMc Posted: February 23, 2021 at 12:36 PM (#6006367)
/ch/ch/ch/ "changes"


There's gonna have to be a different man.
   54. The Gary DiSarcina Fan Club (JAHV) Posted: February 23, 2021 at 12:45 PM (#6006370)
I discovered it when I went to school in the Midwest from New York. For a lot of my schoolmates, there might be a slight difference between merry and Mary (though all tending to sound like Mary), but they weren't even capable of saying marry with the "a" in cat the way a fellow New Yorker and I could. Their efforts were similar to the pathetic sound I made trying to roll my Rs in Spanish class.


I just read through that Reddit thread and tried for five minutes to say "marry" with the short 'a' as in "cat" and I don't think it's even possible for this native Southern Californian. I almost have to unhinge my jaw to get close, and I sound like a zombie.

I can roll my 'r's all day though!
   55. gef, talking mongoose & suburban housewife Posted: February 23, 2021 at 12:48 PM (#6006371)
Odd. Does that mean "mare" is impossible for you to pronounce except as, I guess, "mere"?
   56. gef, talking mongoose & suburban housewife Posted: February 23, 2021 at 12:50 PM (#6006372)
Between Trump and Sanders, there may be a lull in the prejudice against NY accents,


One hopes not. They're horribly grating. Their accents as well.

but Southern accents incite negative judgment in much of the US.


Sho 'nuff, y'all.



   57. Jay Seaver Posted: February 23, 2021 at 12:54 PM (#6006374)
I think I pronounce "marry"/"Mary" and "merry" differently (New Englander), but I'm not sure how it sounds to other people. It's like how I can feel my mouth doing different things for "toe" and "tow", but doubt anyone can hear the difference.
   58. Mayor Blomberg Posted: February 23, 2021 at 12:59 PM (#6006376)
gef, that would be mare, mere, mayor

Californians, at least south of the Tehachipis don't distinguish Mary/marry/merry, or didn't when I was in grad school.
   59. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 23, 2021 at 01:00 PM (#6006377)
I think I pronounce "marry"/"Mary" and "merry" differently (New Englander), but I'm not sure how it sounds to other people.

Maa-ree (like marinate), Mare-ree, Meh-ree
   60. SoSH U at work Posted: February 23, 2021 at 01:03 PM (#6006378)
I sound like a zombie.


That's exactly how it sounds when my freshman roommate tries to say it.

I think I pronounce "marry"/"Mary" and "merry" differently (New Englander), but I'm not sure how it sounds to other people. It's like how I can feel my mouth doing different things for "toe" and "tow", but doubt anyone can hear the difference.


In my case, it was obviously noticeable to my Midwestern friends when I said any word with the "arry" sound. I think it started with a friend named Barry, who gave me a hard time because I was saying his name wrong.

I will add this. About 5 or 6 years after I started school and settled in the Midwest, my mother caught me saying the word "Carroll" (the name of the county next to mine), the way a Midwestern would, rather than the way I would have said it at home. Hearing it repeatedly changed the way I said it.
   61. Jose Needs an Absurd Ukulele Concert Posted: February 23, 2021 at 01:09 PM (#6006382)
i have been told by a whole LOT of people who didn't grow up with english as a first language that it is really hard to get rid of an accent and to speak like a native speaker with the confidence of a native speaker. you always make mistakes. i have been told by people who speak more than 2 languages that english is THE hardest language to learn to speak because our language has no rules and is mostly slang


My father passed 60 years in the US last month, he still speaks with a noticeable accent.
   62. Rally Posted: February 23, 2021 at 01:12 PM (#6006384)
If I'm brought to court in a non-English-speaking country, no matter how well I think I know the local language, I'm asking for an interpreter. Not knowing how to speak in court in your second or third language isn't something I would hold against someone.


Damn right. Back when congress brought a bunch of players talk about steroids, some people made a big issue about Sammy Sosa, who spoke English well enough for baseball interviews, needing a translator. Come on people, this in front of the most powerful people in the country, you are under oath, and they will be parsing your words for anything they can use against you in a perjury trial. As they did to Roger Clemens. Sammy would have been an idiot to not take that situation 100% seriously, and make sure he’s taking every precaution he can.
   63. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: February 23, 2021 at 01:27 PM (#6006386)
I dated a girl from Wisconsin and had the damnedest time trying to convince her that "flag on the play" involved two different "a" sounds. But her name was Mary, and she did OK with that one at least.
   64. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: February 23, 2021 at 01:32 PM (#6006387)
My wife grew up in the South/Florida and pronounces all of “marry/merry/Mary” the same, while I’m a New Yorker and pronounce them all differently. These regional pronunciations are something we often talk/joke about. It really bothered her that I pronounced Florida as “Flah-rida” while she says “Floor-ida”. Same thing with the word “orange”. But after 14 years together I’ve noticed that I now pronounce them her way.

As for Sosa, I saw a recent interview with him in English. His command of the language is good (much better than my Spanish) but it’s crazy to criticize him for using an interpreter when speaking before Congress, for all of the reasons noted above.
   65. The Gary DiSarcina Fan Club (JAHV) Posted: February 23, 2021 at 02:18 PM (#6006398)
Odd. Does that mean "mare" is impossible for you to pronounce except as, I guess, "mere"?


"Mare" is easy to pronounce. It's the same as the first syllable in "marry," "merry," or "Mary." It rhymes with "dare" or "care." "Mere" rhymes with "steer" and is also very easy to say.
   66. Ziggy: social distancing since 1980 Posted: February 23, 2021 at 02:46 PM (#6006402)
Oh good work Rmc in 53. Early seventies primey, from when music was music, for you.
   67. Lassus Posted: February 23, 2021 at 02:57 PM (#6006403)
My wife grew up in the South/Florida and pronounces all of “marry/merry/Mary” the same, while I’m a New Yorker and pronounce them all differently.

I assume you mean NYCer, as I'm a Central New Yorker, and they are all indistinguishable.
   68. Walt Davis Posted: February 23, 2021 at 04:20 PM (#6006421)
Also nearly all of Sosa's testimony was in English. He had his lawyer read his opening statement and not much else.
   69. Darren Posted: February 23, 2021 at 04:51 PM (#6006426)
For everyone saying they don't see what the big deal was about the Kelenic comments: he doesn't just say that Kelenic didn't sign and that he chose to bet on himself. He says that Kelenic thinks that "he’ll be such a star player that the 7th, 8th, 9th year options will undervalue him." That sounds condescending. It also makes it sound like the first six years give Kelenic full value that he would get even if he went through arbitration. It's not a nice thing to say, overall.
   70. phredbird Posted: February 23, 2021 at 04:53 PM (#6006428)

my grandparents were born and raised in louisiana, but because they were cajuns they spoke french before they learned english. they never lost their cajun accents, which is a whole thing of its own.

a lot of the cajuns i went to high school with in small town louisiana had noticeable accents, even though they barely knew any french. it was weird.

i'm cajun myself, but since my early education was overseas at american schools run by mostly easterners and midwesterners, i don't sound out of place in CA.

   71. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: February 23, 2021 at 05:39 PM (#6006435)
I assume you mean NYCer, as I'm a Central New Yorker, and they are all indistinguishable.

Westchester/NYC.
   72. gef, talking mongoose & suburban housewife Posted: February 23, 2021 at 08:53 PM (#6006449)
"Mare" is easy to pronounce. It's the same as the first syllable in "marry," "merry," or "Mary." It rhymes with "dare" or "care." "Mere" rhymes with "steer" and is also very easy to say.


Which is why I'm puzzled by your previous statement that
I just read through that Reddit thread and tried for five minutes to say "marry" with the short 'a' as in "cat" and I don't think it's even possible for this native Southern Californian. I almost have to unhinge my jaw to get close, and I sound like a zombie.


The "a" in "dare," "care," etc. is the same as in "cat" for me, unless my (admittedly tinnitic) ears are lying to me.

OK, listening to myself right now, I'll modify that a bit -- "care" is closer to "kehr" for me.
   73. SoSH U at work Posted: February 23, 2021 at 09:02 PM (#6006450)
The "a" in "dare," "care," etc. is the same as in "cat" for me, unless my (admittedly tinnitic) ears are lying to me.


That would make it difficult to distinguish. Is the "a" in "happy" the same as the one in "hairy" to you?

   74. gef, talking mongoose & suburban housewife Posted: February 23, 2021 at 11:28 PM (#6006468)
Yes.
   75. Greg Pope Posted: February 24, 2021 at 09:42 AM (#6006477)
Never occurred to me that marry, merry, and Mary could be pronounced differently from each other. They're all the same. Accents are so weird.

My parents are from Michigan but I grew up in north Chicago suburbs. My mom pronounces milk like "melk" and golf like "gulf", but I don't. However, I have a friend from the north side of Chicago proper and he pronounces "beer" and "bear" the exact same. He also pronounces "rune" and "ruin" the exact same (both like rune). And I don't do either of those. Of course, I've never heard anyone actually refer to "da Bears" except in reference to the stereotype but I don't get to the South Side, like ever.
   76. Howie Menckel Posted: February 24, 2021 at 10:21 AM (#6006483)
Never occurred to me that marry, merry, and Mary could be pronounced differently from each other.

the funny part is that to many ears, they aren't even that close.

those listeners would score 100 percent as to which was which, on any test.

marry being like Fahrenheit, marigold, marijuana, magic, malware.

merry being like ferry, meh, many, nebulous.

Mary being like fairy, rare, air.

my Hoosier wife is in the "Ellinois" and "melk" group.
   77. SoSH U at work Posted: February 24, 2021 at 10:29 AM (#6006485)
Mary being like fairy, rare, air.


Or for non "r" sounds, hail.

But yes, for people like me, they aren't that close.
   78. Nasty Nate Posted: February 24, 2021 at 10:36 AM (#6006488)
For people who pronounce all 3 the same, which do they use: ferry, marigold, or fairy?
   79. SoSH U at work Posted: February 24, 2021 at 10:42 AM (#6006490)
For people who pronounce all 3 the same, which do they use: ferry, marigold, or fairy?


Fairy. You can occasionally find some who make a slight distinction between fairy and ferry, but fairy is the dominant pronunciation.
   80. Howie Menckel Posted: February 24, 2021 at 10:51 AM (#6006492)
while I go with "hahr-ible", I kind of prefer the sound of "hawr-ible."

a problem arises with the similar "horror," however.

"hahr-er" at least sounds easy. when I hear "hawr-r," it sounds to me like a verbal equivalent of stubbing one's toe because there is no contrasting sound to end the word.

and asking a genteel New Yawk gal if she likes [scary] "whore...r" films might get you a slap in the face (non-COVID-19 era).
   81. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: February 24, 2021 at 10:58 AM (#6006493)
That would make it difficult to distinguish. Is the "a" in "happy" the same as the one in "hairy" to you?

74. gef, talking mongoose & suburban housewife Posted: February 23, 2021 at 11:28 PM (#6006468)
Yes.


Hmm, I will have to listen to my wife (for once, she would say) to see if I notice any difference in how she says words like “happy”. I’ve only really noticed the difference in syllables that end with “r”.

gef, or others — do you pronounce the words “app” and “ape” the same way?

#80 - yeah, “horrible” is another one that comes up a lot. Also, “hilarious”.
   82. SoSH U at work Posted: February 24, 2021 at 11:00 AM (#6006494)
gef, or others — do you pronounce the words “app” and “ape” the same way?


I can't speak for gef, but no one out here has any issues with the long a sound. It's just substituting the ai sound where the short a would go on certain (or, in gef's case, all) words.
   83. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: February 24, 2021 at 11:05 AM (#6006495)
and asking a genteel New Yawk gal if she likes [scary] "whore...r" films might get you a slap in the face (non-COVID-19 era).
My wife grew up in Mexico City. She was bilingually educated and is like 95% fluent in English, but she does have a bit of an accent. Her dad is an animal doctor specializing in equines, which she tends to describe as a "whore's vet."
   84. Lassus Posted: February 24, 2021 at 11:21 AM (#6006498)
merry being like ferry
Okay.

meh, many
What in the holy hell.
   85. SoSH U at work Posted: February 24, 2021 at 11:23 AM (#6006499)
What in the holy hell.


The vowel sounds are different to you? What do they sound like?

   86. Lassus Posted: February 24, 2021 at 11:30 AM (#6006501)
"Meh" = "tell"; "merry" = "mare"
   87. Howie Menckel Posted: February 24, 2021 at 11:34 AM (#6006502)
"Mary" = "mare"
   88. SoSH U at work Posted: February 24, 2021 at 11:42 AM (#6006504)


"Meh" = "tell"; "merry" = "mare"


I see. I thought you meant there was a difference between meh and many. Rather, it's just that you can't make the eh (or a) sound in front of the r.

   89. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: February 24, 2021 at 11:45 AM (#6006506)
I can't speak for gef, but no one out here has any issues with the long a sound. It's just substituting the ai sound where the short a would go on certain (or, in gef's case, all) words.

Exactly, they don’t have issues with the long “a” sound, they have issues with the short “a” sound. I guess it’s most noticeable with “ar” words because the long “a” gets shortened before those words (People don’t say “May-ree” or “hay-ree”.)
   90. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: February 24, 2021 at 11:56 AM (#6006509)
marry being like Fahrenheit, marigold, marijuana, magic, malware.

merry being like ferry, meh, many, nebulous.

Mary being like fairy, rare, air.


I knew a Mary in highschool. Typically people pronounced it 'marry', I went with 'merry', which she noticed, and liked. Not sure if anyone called her Mary with the 'fairy' sound.
   91. SoSH U at work Posted: February 24, 2021 at 11:58 AM (#6006510)
I guess it’s most noticeable with “ar” words because the long “a” gets shortened before those words (People don’t say “May-ree” or “hay-ree”.)


There aren't many words with a long a sound before an r. I can think of a few places, such as Beirut or, to some speakers*, Cairo, Illinois, but no other words jump immediately to mind.

*And the others don't pronounce it like the city in Egypt either.
   92. gef, talking mongoose & suburban housewife Posted: February 24, 2021 at 12:02 PM (#6006513)
a problem arises with the similar "horror," however.

"hahr-er" at least sounds easy. when I hear "hawr-r," it sounds to me like a verbal equivalent of stubbing one's toe because there is no contrasting sound to end the word.

and asking a genteel New Yawk gal if she likes [scary] "whore...r" films might get you a slap in the face (non-COVID-19 era).


Amen. I use the word a fair amount, as a fan of horror films & fiction, & it's a bugger to pronounce. For me, it's somewhere between "hahr-er" & "hawr-r" -- "har-ruhr."

It's the damned r's that are the problem.
   93. gef, talking mongoose & suburban housewife Posted: February 24, 2021 at 12:03 PM (#6006514)

gef, or others — do you pronounce the words “app” and “ape” the same way?


I can't imagine. "App" is pronounced like the first syllable in "apple" -- or, more apropos, "application."
   94. gef, talking mongoose & suburban housewife Posted: February 24, 2021 at 12:07 PM (#6006516)
I knew a Mary in highschool. Typically people pronounced it 'marry', I went with 'merry',


As did & do I, though offhand the only Mary I knew as a kid was my mother, not that I ever called her by name.

Looking back, that's sort of odd; surely it was a very common name.
   95. gef, talking mongoose & suburban housewife Posted: February 24, 2021 at 12:08 PM (#6006517)
There aren't many words with a long a sound before an r. I can think of a few places, such as Beirut or, to some speakers*, Cairo, Illinois, but no other words jump immediately to mind.


Karo syrup (speaking of the Illinois city). Pharaoh. Payroll.
   96. Lassus Posted: February 24, 2021 at 12:11 PM (#6006518)
Amen. I use the word a fair amount, as a fan of horror films & fiction, & it's a bugger to pronounce. For me, it's somewhere between "hahr-er" & "hawr-r" -- "har-ruhr." It's the damned r's that are the problem.

Does anyone OTHER than me say "whore-er"? A long first "O?


and asking a genteel New Yawk gal if she likes [scary] "whore...r" films might get you a slap in the face

Maybe, if they even pronounced "whore" normally, but I doubt it.
   97. gef, talking mongoose & suburban housewife Posted: February 24, 2021 at 12:13 PM (#6006520)
I guess "whore-er" is actually a good description of my pronunciation, though I tend to repeat the "r," for whatever reason -- "whore-rer."

A long first "O" would produce the truly oddball "hoh-rer," wouldn't it?

Goddamned word. "Terror" is loads easier.

And no wonder Lovecraft evidently preferred to use "weird."
   98. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: February 24, 2021 at 12:17 PM (#6006522)
There aren't many words with a long a sound before an r. I can think of a few places, such as Beirut or, to some speakers*, Cairo, Illinois, but no other words jump immediately to mind.



Karo syrup (speaking of the Illinois city). Pharaoh. Payroll.


I don't know about Karo syrup, but pharaoh is not a long a - it's 'fero'.
   99. gef, talking mongoose & suburban housewife Posted: February 24, 2021 at 12:21 PM (#6006526)
Not in deep SW Arkansas Sunday school it wasn't. Obviously, that pronunciation has stuck with me, though of course you're correct.

Odd, though. "Sam the Sham & the 'Feros'" just sounds all sorts of wrong to me, even at this late date.
   100. SoSH U at work Posted: February 24, 2021 at 12:23 PM (#6006527)
Pharaoh. Payroll.


Payroll's a good one. Pharaoh seems to be pronounced both ways, but I hear the long a less often.
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