Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Monday, August 24, 2009

Futility Infielder: Jaffe: Why Does Jim Rice Hate America?

Weeee…More fun than Drew Friedman dropping kookie Bedazzlers all day!

The completion of Rice’s tedious march to the Hall of Fame — as the most horseshit selection the writers have made in a long, long time — doesn’t qualify him to start bashing players of the current generation. At least not without providing an accompanying visual of an incontinent old man yelling at the teenagers doing donuts on his lawn.

The YES Network broadcast team had fun bashing Rice during Friday night’s Yankees-Red Sox blowout. Smooth Ken Singleton, whose nature in the booth always seems to be an extension of the joie de vivre of a guy coming off a 2-for-4 night, took serious umbrage at Rice’s statements as both a contemporary of Rice and observer of the bulk of Jeter’s career. Michael Kay spoke of an old Red Sox yearbook in which Rice was quoted as saying that his favorite thing about playing in the majors was the 1st and 15th days of the month, when he got his paycheck. Awkward.

Rice, never known for his charm with the press, has claimed he was misquoted, but even if he didn’t mean to tar Jeter with the same brush he used on Alex Rodriguez and Manny Ramirez, his comments about players in his day being either somehow morally superior or simply better than those of today despite improvements in training and nutrition doesn’t ring true. Put a sock in it, dude.

Repoz Posted: August 24, 2009 at 03:42 PM | 119 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: announcers, hall of fame, history, media, red sox

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 2 of 2 pages  < 1 2
   101. Joe Bivens, Slack Rumped Rutabaga Head Posted: August 25, 2009 at 12:32 AM (#3304040)
I knew there would be mocking. Mock away.
   102. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: August 25, 2009 at 12:35 AM (#3304044)
By the way, regardless my opinion on whether an A hole was capable of such a response, it in no way diminishes Rice's actions. I'd like to believe I'd do the same thing in the situation, but there's no way of knowing that I'd be as quick thinking and willing to take charge as Rice was. And on the grand scale, saving a kid's life does outweigh a whole lot of surliness and get off my lawn commentary.
   103. The NeverEnding Torii (oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh) Posted: August 25, 2009 at 12:36 AM (#3304045)
Sorry, but seeing someone's life in danger and protecting or helping them doesn't give you a free pass for the rest of your life to be an ass. One noble act doesn't make you a "good guy", unless you're a crappy screenwriter.
   104. Joe Bivens, Slack Rumped Rutabaga Head Posted: August 25, 2009 at 12:39 AM (#3304048)
I've also heard that he's cordial on the golf course.
   105. Obama Bomaye Posted: August 25, 2009 at 12:39 AM (#3304050)
the victim and his father were on NESN. The father told it, tearfully.

I knew this smelled fishy, so I checked Retrosheet. Turns out the man doesn't even have a son, it was his nephew, and he wasn't hit with a ball, it was a beer dropped from the upper deck, and Jim Rice was thirsty, but it was actually Marty Barrett who tossed a towel into the stands so they could dry the kid off.

I mean, I understand one forgets certain details over time, so I don't blame the guy. I'm just saying, we gotta make sure we check these stories out before we go electing Jim Rice into the HOF.
   106. Rally Posted: August 25, 2009 at 12:57 AM (#3304068)
Sportswriters are often scum. Great guy = great interview, like Mark Grace. Complete A-hole = guy not comfortable talking to media. For all I know Jim Rice might be a wonderful person (though I kind of doubt it from the times I've heard him open his mouth). And he certainly deserves to be commended for taking the initiative in saving the kid's life. Anybody, just about, would do it if they knew the life was in danger, but most players would probably figure it wasn't that serious (foul balls go in the stands all the time) or stadium personnel would take of it.

Don't mean jack to me in his HOF worthiness though. He still wasn't nearly as good as Evans, or Lynn, or Raines, or the other 50-100 better players kept outside the hall. I'm sure there are plenty of doctors who've saved a lot more lives than Jim Rice. I wouldn't put them in the baseball HOF either.
   107. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: August 25, 2009 at 12:59 AM (#3304070)
Anyway, for one game, I'll take Dwight Gooden 1985 over any incarnation of Steve Carlton you choose. And I'll probably win.


I'll take Karl Spooner 1954, suckah.

I will DOMINATE.


Ah, yes, "We shudda had Spoonah soonah"

But if I threw Al Worthington's first two career starts back at you, you wouldn't.
   108. Shock Posted: August 25, 2009 at 01:08 AM (#3304076)
2003 John Wasdin, #######!!

Wait, which game are we playing?
   109. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: August 25, 2009 at 01:18 AM (#3304085)
What about Dave Stewart?
   110. Misirlou gave her his Vincent to ride Posted: August 25, 2009 at 01:18 AM (#3304086)
I know you're a troll but...

According to Baseball-Reference, he is 279th all-time in winning percentage!!! Get rid of pitchers from the 1800's and early 1900's and say he moves up 100 spots. (I have no idea if this is accurate or not.) Not over-whelming.


Are you also eliminating guys with fewer than 1/3 the number of wins? I mean, Cliff Lee? Lefty Williams? John Tudor? Freddy Garcia? Mark Clear? Are you somehow insinuating that these guys are more Hsll worthy than Sutton?

BTW:

Nolan Ryan 526th place
Fergie Jenkins 287th place
Gaylord Perry 377th
Bert Blyleven 449th

Yes, you read that right. Fergie Jenkins of the six straight 20 win seasons has a worse career win %.
   111. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: August 25, 2009 at 01:21 AM (#3304088)
Or Allie Reynolds?

And anyone who suggests that jack had a better rep in big games is gravely mistaken.
   112. jwb Posted: August 25, 2009 at 09:02 AM (#3304269)
No pitcher who has a career W/L record similar to Don Sutton is not in the Hall of Fame, except for Tom Glavine. Sutton does not have the best W% nor does he have the worst. Nolan Ryan has the worst W%, but he has no-hitters and strikeouts going for him.

Jack Morris is in the borderline area, where some are in (Bob Gibson) and some are not (Luis Tiant). Jamie Moyer has more wins then Morris and a similar W%. As far as big games go, Gibson and Tiant both have better post-season records than Morris; Gibson's is far better.

I don't think you can rationally argue that Clemens or Maddux exhibited "absolute dominance" over his peers (including the other AND RJ AND Pedro, etc.) for a "reasonable" (3 years? 5 years? 10 years?) period of time.
Roger Clemens won seven Cy Young Awards over a 17 year period and Greg Maddux won four consecutively (Really, has any other pitcher, ever, exhibited a period of dominance like that? Lefty Grove maybe?). Randy Johnson has won five (in 8 years); Steve Carlton also won four (11 years). Pedro Martinez has won three (4 years) but his career award share total is very similar to Carlton's. I think would be difficult to argue rationally that Clemens and Maddux have not been among the most dominant pitchers of the last half century.
   113. tjm1 Posted: August 25, 2009 at 09:14 AM (#3304272)
There is an argument against Sutton, but it's more like this: his career ERA+ is 108. He had an ERA+ above 115 only 7 times. His ERA numbers look good because he pitched almost his whole career in pitchers' parks, and mostly in a pitcher's era. He had good won-lost records because he pitched for good-hitting teams. The 1970's Dodgers were a series of great-hitting teams, with somewhat above average pitching, and the park made it look the opposite. I'm enough of a career value guy that I think Sutton belongs, but he only really had a few very good seasons.
   114. Richard Posted: August 25, 2009 at 09:26 AM (#3304273)
Jamie Moyer has more wins then Morris and a similar W%.

You have to think that this will become an argument against Morris' HOF candacy, to counter the "most wins in the 1980's" type arguments.
   115. tjm1 Posted: August 25, 2009 at 10:19 AM (#3304278)
You have to think that this will become an argument against Morris' HOF candacy, to counter the "most wins in the 1980's" type arguments.


Or for Moyer, once Morris is voted in.
   116. Joe Bivens, Slack Rumped Rutabaga Head Posted: August 25, 2009 at 11:06 AM (#3304285)
106...I wasn't defending his HOF election, although I don't object to him getting in.
   117. Spahn Insane Posted: August 25, 2009 at 03:02 PM (#3304421)
I think would be difficult to argue rationally that Clemens and Maddux have not been among the most dominant pitchers of the last half century.

Of course they were, but that wasn't the original poster's point. The point is that because they were BOTH so dominant, it would be hard to argue either one was clearly dominant *over the other*, and thus neither one (arguably) would meet the standard of "dominance" the other guy (can't remember the name--the one who doesn't think Sutton's a HOFer) is putting forth (i.e., "dominance of the position" over a period of years). Same thing with the Mays/Mantle example, etc.
   118. Andere Richtingen Posted: August 25, 2009 at 03:15 PM (#3304427)
There is an argument against Sutton, but it's more like this: his career ERA+ is 108. He had an ERA+ above 115 only 7 times. His ERA numbers look good because he pitched almost his whole career in pitchers' parks, and mostly in a pitcher's era. He had good won-lost records because he pitched for good-hitting teams. The 1970's Dodgers were a series of great-hitting teams, with somewhat above average pitching, and the park made it look the opposite. I'm enough of a career value guy that I think Sutton belongs, but he only really had a few very good seasons.

Precisely my view of it, although he broke into "excellent" territory a few times (1972-73, 80).
   119. BDC Posted: August 25, 2009 at 03:16 PM (#3304428)
I'll take Carlton 1972 over Gooden 85. Carlton was accustomed to pitching more innings and I bet he keeps the scoreless tie longer into extra innings than Doc does


Speaking of scoreless ties, I was actually at a game that tested this theory:
Carlton/Gooden matchup
Gooden won, but of course Carlton was 40 years old.
   120. Eraser-X is emphatically dominating teh site!!! Posted: August 25, 2009 at 03:33 PM (#3304444)
Ah, yes. The "Matt Dillon Crash" defense.


Jim Rice sexual assaulted that kid?!
Page 2 of 2 pages  < 1 2

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

News

All News | Prime News

Old-School Newsstand


BBTF Partner

Dynasty League Baseball

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Sheer Tim Foli
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogBloom: Red Sox won’t rush to have manager by spring training
(25 - 6:17pm, Jan 24)
Last: Jose Is Absurdly Chatty

NewsblogRed Sox, Padres have reportedly discussed Mookie Betts trade that includes a surprising name
(15 - 6:15pm, Jan 24)
Last: What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face?

NewsblogRanking the names of major league ballparks
(22 - 5:57pm, Jan 24)
Last: snowles

NewsblogOT - NBA Thread 2020
(648 - 5:20pm, Jan 24)
Last: tshipman

NewsblogPosnanski: Baseball 100 Rules
(430 - 5:16pm, Jan 24)
Last: Rennie's Tenet

NewsblogRyan Thibs’ Hall of Fame Tracker
(1448 - 4:59pm, Jan 24)
Last: gabrielthursday

NewsblogPrimer Dugout (and link of the day) 1-24-2020
(15 - 4:51pm, Jan 24)
Last: Walt Davis

NewsblogCraig Calcaterra’s Imaginary Hall of Fame Ballot
(71 - 4:48pm, Jan 24)
Last: ww0b

NewsblogReport: Umpires agree to MLB's test plans for automated strike zone
(115 - 3:40pm, Jan 24)
Last: Barnaby Jones

NewsblogAstros owner Crane expects to hire new manager by Feb. 3
(6 - 3:23pm, Jan 24)
Last: Itchy Row

NewsblogMajor League Baseball to sponsor US Olympic softball team
(1 - 3:21pm, Jan 24)
Last: John Northey

NewsblogPrimer Dugout (and link of the day) 1-23-2020
(32 - 3:18pm, Jan 24)
Last: vortex of dissipation

Gonfalon CubsBeing cheap is not a plan
(49 - 2:53pm, Jan 24)
Last: Moses Taylor, glorified meat shield

NewsblogOT - Soccer Thread - January, 2020
(264 - 2:32pm, Jan 24)
Last: Mefisto

NewsblogScott Boras Says Astros Players Shouldn't Apologize for Sign-Stealing Scandal
(2 - 1:19pm, Jan 24)
Last: winnipegwhip

Page rendered in 0.3209 seconds
46 querie(s) executed