Phillies fans are all too familiar with September flops from Kapler...

Were the 2021 Giants the biggest fluke team of all time? Their wins from 2018 to the present go 73-77-78(prorated)-107-81-78.

I kind of get it, I guess, but the Giants haven't exactly had a surplus of talent these past four years. The Giants must think someone else could do more with that roster but I don't know. It's a pretty mediocre collection of guys.

#2: I think they were, yes. And Kapler was always doomed to be fired within a couple years after that spectacular overachievement.

The parting shot was pretty harsh by exit memo history. Must have been some bad blood there at the end

the Giants probably had more "openers" as pitchers than anybody, and they platooned enough within games to make Earl Weaver blush.

12 batters appeared in at least 88 games, and 124 G is good enough for 3rd place.

Webb was excellent and Cobb was good, but only 3 Ps got 100 IP.

13 pitchers got into at least 28 G.

I certainly don't think it's why he got fired - but following their games, it just felt like an assembly line of interchangeable parts.

it's an MLB trend, yes. but this one felt, to me, like an extreme.

#2 yeah they had a bunch of guys who had, if not career years, seasons that were out-of-line with what you’d expect at that point in their careers. And it was a pretty old lineup.

Didn’t help that Posey retired, Gausman left as a free agent, and DeSclafani got hurt after signing an extension.

[Cut to shot of Kapler crying under a blanket on his couch as he spoons out of a pint of Ben & Jerry’s, carefully spitting out every bite.]

an assembly line of interchangeable parts.

Well, ya gotta work with what ya got. Optomizing this roster will involve a lot of platooning. Also, injuries to Conforto (19 games), Estrada (35) and Yaz (50 games in 3 different stints) kept them from three more 140+ game totals. Those three guys plus JD Davis started pretty much every day they were healthy. Pederson also missed 21 games and might have technically reached 140 "games" but not a qualiified season of PAs (he has only two in his career). Of course Flores and Wade probably got more PT than expected filling in for the injuries.

Anyway, I'd think this is Kapler's last chance at a "big" job. He might get a chance to manage again at, say, KC so he might turn around his career.

9, those are valid points.

but for me it's an aesthetic thing.

hypothetical: kid is a Giants fan, and his favorite player is Mike Yastrzemski because his Grandpa (or Great Grandpa or female versions) regaled him with stories of Mike's legendary grandfather.

family goes to the game, and the kid is excited because Yaz is 2-for-2 with a single and a double. 5th inning, a LHP enters the game - and Yaz is automatically replaced, to the kid's chagrin.

now, Yaz career OPS vs RHP is .822 and vs LHP is .691.

so a good reason to hit for Yaz in the 9th inning of a tie game.

but in the 5th inning? really?

note that due to multiple injuries, at times the Giants had to play OFs on "the wrong side of the platoon" - but with fewer ABs against those Ps, that would seem to put them in a worse place than they would be otherwise.

a reasonable answer could be that Kapler (maybe even literally) has a bug in his ear that reminds him that the spreadsheet rules all.

but if Kapler can't even make a discretionary move based maybe, for instance, on how well Yaz has swung into some hard outs vs LHP of late - then why not just replace him with an less-experienced guy for half the price?

Giants did a full platoon against Kershaw tonight - in a meaningless game. gotta minimize the # of ABs some batters get against lefties, no exceptions if possible !

hapless Mets had Megill on the bump this afternoon. mediocre starter, but has pitched well this month. he got to start the 8th inning for the first time all season. in the postgame interview, he looked like a kid at Christmas.

I can't imagine the Giants using that sort of discretion, even in a meaningless game.

not exactly spreading joy, either in the clubhouse or in the stands.

Were the 2021 Giants the biggest fluke team of all time? Their wins from 2018 to the present go 73-77-78(prorated)-107-81-78.
As I recall everyone picked them to finish last with 70 or fewer wins.

I'm not bought into "the manager is making lineup decisions" argument. It's clear from Maddons exit that this activity has moved to front office in many orgs. Clearly in St. Louis it has.

I guess we will find out with new manager but I'm guessing the platooning is an org philosophy not just Kapler

Webb was excellent and Cobb was good, but only 3 Ps got 100 IP.

Prior to yesterday's games, those three pitchers had exactly the same IP as the four Dodgers pitchers with 100 IP.

hapless Mets had Megill on the bump this afternoon. mediocre starter, but has pitched well this month. he got to start the 8th inning for the first time all season. in the postgame interview, he looked like a kid at Christmas.

I can't imagine the Giants using that sort of discretion, even in a meaningless game.

The Giants have the MLB leader in IP and have more CG than any other team.

- if the Giants won 100 games, I suspect their product would be found to be entertaining.

- an honest post would have listed SF's "more CG than any other team" as ... wait for it, wait for it,... 4. also, their two SPs that I mentioned had all 4 of the CGs.

- so how does that play into the mention I made of Megill's outing. obviously, it doesn't - at all.

nice try, I guess.

#shrugemoji

The position of the baseball manager these days is largely about 3 things:

1) Management of the bullpen
2) Emotional support and motivation of players, along with usage patterns
3) Public Relations

The truth is, it didn't seem like Gabe Kapler was particularly skilled at any of these tasks.

- Though the Giants had 3 good starting pitchers, their WAR for relief pitchers was only so-so.
- Say what you will about who is to blame, it's fair to say that the Giants' position players under-performed this year
- His tightly-wound persona never seemed to resonate with the fans. Why, for instance, did he refuse to wear the uniform?

It's the last one, of course, that is the real reason he got fired.

But what about the kids whose favorite player is Wilmer Flores? Or LaMonte Wade Jr or Joc Pederson or JD Davis or Patrick Bailey? Is that how lineup decisions should be made?

But sure, the number of qualified batters is lower and that may mean less fan connection with individual mediocre players. That might be an issue for the marketing department of the Cleveland Guardians to deal with.

135 qualified batters this year, exactly 4.5 per team. That's actually up by 4 from last year. In 2018 it was 142; in 2013 it was 141. In 1973 it was 116 ... still under 5 per team. The universal DH should have helped push a few more over the line but I suppose the 26th roster spot and 13 pitcher limit pushed things the other direction. (FWIW, a pretty common pattern for the last 50 years was 5.5 per team in the AL and 4.5 in the NL; already dipping a bit before the universal DH.)

The Giants' main problem is they have developed very little talent of their own in the last several years. They continue to do an excellent job of cobbling together competitive teams on the relative cheap (attempted Correa contract aside) but there are generally only two types of players fans attach to in a major way -- guys you developed (or acquired) young and the rare big FA that actually delivers. They had Posey, Crawford is still around but it's been thin since those guys debuted.

As long as you're relying on Flores, Davis, Wade, Conforto, DeSclafini, Pederson, Cobb and hoping fans get excited about Camilo Doval, the little kids of the Bay Area are likely to be kinda disappointed. (And the A's weren't doing any better in this regard for the last decade-plus.)

But what about the kids whose favorite player is Wilmer Flores? Or LaMonte Wade Jr or Joc Pederson or JD Davis or Patrick Bailey? Is that how lineup decisions should be made?

you misunderstood my point.

Nah, I just made fun of your "aesthetics" regarding Yaz the Lesser. I didn't think you were arguing that's how lineup decisions should be made.

I'm not bought into "the manager is making lineup decisions" argument. It's clear from Maddons exit

I'm gonna disagree to an extent on this. Isn't it more like: the manager is on the field several hours before the game and only he can make up to the minute decisions on who might be a late scratch or who might be still gimpy? So while there's a directive from on high he's the one with the last minute power to change things as needed. Only he can sign the line up card.

Isnt it more like that?

but if Kapler can't even make a discretionary move based maybe, for instance, on how well Yaz has swung into some hard outs vs LHP of late - then why not just replace him with an less-experienced guy for half the price?

this is Howie's take on that issue. I think its more realistic in that he has power to make discretionary moves. it seems to me that you really are paying these managers to make a handful of discretionary moves each game.

Whether its worth it to hire Kapler at X dollars or someone else for less, I dunno. Maybe it is worth it to get someone who has good intuition. Im not sure where Howie comes out on this issue (his quote seems more neutral on that).

I don't pay much attention to the Giants and was going to say that Patrick Bailey was looking good as a young player. Now I find that he cratered in the second half.

I'm gonna disagree to an extent on this. Isn't it more like: the manager is on the field several hours before the game and only he can make up to the minute decisions on who might be a late scratch or who might be still gimpy? So while there's a directive from on high he's the one with the last minute power to change things as needed. Only he can sign the line up card.

Isnt it more like that?

Absolutely. But if the manager decides not to play the lineup his boss told him to play, he can expect to be called to account for it after the game and had better have a good explanation. That's the nature of the job now. Baseball managers are middle management.

well yeah that's what Im saying. is that what THE DUKE is saying?

I followed the Giants more closely than almost any other team this season.

if Kapler ever made a "contrarian move," I missed it. The platoon splits would be more severe if not for enough injuries that at times forced him to use batters on the wrong side of the platoon.

I can't say if he is a robot himself, or if a robot in the front office forced him to do his bidding.