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Friday, July 10, 2020

Giants catcher Buster Posey opts out of 2020 MLB season

an Francisco Giants catcher Buster Posey became Major League Baseball’s most celebrated position player to opt out of the 2020 season, formally announced his decision Friday morning after deliberating the past three days.

Making his announcement Friday, Posey said that he and his wife had recently adopted twin girls who were born prematurely.

Posey, a member of the Giants’ three World Series championship teams and the 2012 National League MVP, was unsure he’d play this season when he arrived to camp last week. The 33-year-old missed three of the team’s 10 workouts as he weighed his decision.

“It would be a little bit maybe naive or silly not to gauge what’s going on around you,’’ Posey said on a conference call Saturday. “Not around you here, but paying attention to what’s happening in the country, in different parts of the country. …

“I think I want to see kind of how things progress here over the next couple of weeks.’’

RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: July 10, 2020 at 12:12 PM | 65 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: buster posey, coronavirus

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   1. Mefisto Posted: July 10, 2020 at 12:15 PM (#5962104)
Good for him.
   2. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: July 10, 2020 at 12:31 PM (#5962111)
Indeed. I haven't ventured outside the BBTF bubble on this issue - what has been the public reaction to players opting out? Has anyone besides that one jackass linked here yesterday been anything less than respectful?
   3. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: July 10, 2020 at 01:28 PM (#5962119)
@dieter
If Posey is indeed going to opt out, I’m fascinated to see how this affects his legacy. Obviously he’s an all-time great for the Giants, but this is the first thing that can be perceived as negative on his “permanent record”.


@dieter
I’m not going to criticize Posey for opting out, if that’s what he does (all signs point that way), but I’m not going to pretend he’s some hero for deciding not to play, either.
   4. caspian88 Posted: July 10, 2020 at 01:39 PM (#5962124)
I don't see any reason to criticize Posey for opting out. This would be a golden opportunity for Joey Bart, but I don't think there's going to be a season anyway.
   5. JRVJ Posted: July 10, 2020 at 02:49 PM (#5962146)
Frankly, I suspect the Giants are thrilled that Posey is opting out, as it saves them $7.925MM, in a season where they reasonably were not going to contend for the title.

Indeed, it may help the Giants get a higher draft pick in the 2021 draft than this year's 1:13 pick.
   6. tshipman Posted: July 10, 2020 at 03:30 PM (#5962156)
If Posey is indeed going to opt out, I’m fascinated to see how this affects his legacy. Obviously he’s an all-time great for the Giants, but this is the first thing that can be perceived as negative on his “permanent record”.


Do these guys read this #### before they post it?
   7. Srul Itza Posted: July 10, 2020 at 03:52 PM (#5962159)
So, in years to come are we going to be talking about COVID credit for players in HOM and HOF conversations?
   8. always extremely 57i66135, but never enough Posted: July 10, 2020 at 03:54 PM (#5962160)
Do these guys read this #### before they post it?
yes. they're like howie in that they believe what they're saying; they just know that it's morally/factually/socially unacceptable, so they couch it in that kind of "other people..." bullshit and then go on pretending that their #### doesn't stink after they've just evacuated themselves on the floor in front of us.

   9. Karl from NY Posted: July 10, 2020 at 04:05 PM (#5962163)
Absolutely yes we're going to talk Covid credit, after we lose all of this year and half of next as well.
   10. RJ in TO Posted: July 10, 2020 at 04:07 PM (#5962165)
57i66135 is right on this. It's a blend of "I'm not saying/I'm just saying" and concern trolling, so they can maintain some form of deniability when someone calls them on being ########.

I live and work in an area that has done a much better job of handling COVID-19 than the areas where most of these players are playing, and I've been working from home for months so as to minimize my exposure to others and fully plan to just ignore my employer if they order me back into the office. I'm not going to complain about any player backing out on the season, given that they're giving up a lot more in terms of their career and earnings potential than I am.
   11. always extremely 57i66135, but never enough Posted: July 10, 2020 at 04:16 PM (#5962166)
and on the topic of both-sides-ism:

@AdamSchefter
Eagles’ WR DeSean Jackson met with an anti-Semitic group yesterday and he’s meeting with a 94-year-old Holocaust survivor today. He’s trying to educate himself.

(that was a typo by schefter (i think...), but it just perfectly hits the note for what happens when you "respect" opinions that are unacceptable, under the guise of "trying to educate" yourself.)
   12. The Duke Posted: July 10, 2020 at 05:00 PM (#5962173)
This is not a surprise. The guys who have banked a ton of cash can afford to make this call. I expect many more like this
   13. JJ1986 Posted: July 10, 2020 at 05:13 PM (#5962177)
I've heard Dieter Kurtenbach (sp?) on NBA podcasts. He likes to say things that probably aren't true just to introduce them to the conversation (as if he doesn't actually mean them).
   14. tshipman Posted: July 10, 2020 at 05:19 PM (#5962178)
I've heard Dieter Kurtenbach (sp?) on NBA podcasts. He likes to say things that probably aren't true just to introduce them to the conversation (as if he doesn't actually mean them).


So ... a troll.
   15. Mayor Blomberg Posted: July 10, 2020 at 05:58 PM (#5962184)
I’m not going to criticize Trump for opting out, if that’s what he does (all signs point that way), but I’m not going to pretend he’s some hero for deciding not to brave a 20 percent chance of rain in Portsmouth tomorrow.


fixed it/
   16. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: July 10, 2020 at 06:05 PM (#5962187)

This is not a surprise. The guys who have banked a ton of cash can afford to make this call. I expect many more like this


White Sox pitcher Michael Kopech has not banked a lot of cash, but he has decided to opt out.
   17. Best Dressed Chicken in Town Posted: July 10, 2020 at 06:51 PM (#5962195)
Michael Kopech has not banked a lot of cash, but he has decided to opt out.

More time to bang a lot of ass
i.e. his wife
who is ridiculously hot
   18. Walt Davis Posted: July 10, 2020 at 07:10 PM (#5962198)
Not a lot but a $1.6 M signing bonus and about $600-700 K in ML earnings. Missing out on another $300+ K is obviously non-trivial but he should be able to scrape by for a few months.
   19. Howie Menckel Posted: July 10, 2020 at 09:28 PM (#5962212)
the other MLB C on the Giants' 40-man roster is out for the season due to injury.

Joey Bart indeed might be baseball's best catching prospect and he seems near ready - but why bother?

Eric Kratz, please pick up the white courtesy phone.....
   20. always extremely 57i66135, but never enough Posted: July 10, 2020 at 10:00 PM (#5962216)
Eric Kratz, please pick up the white courtesy phone.....
sal fasano isn't walking through that door.
   21. Lowry Seasoning Salt Posted: July 10, 2020 at 11:57 PM (#5962228)
More time to bang a lot of ass
i.e. his wife
who is ridiculously hot


Seriously: Stop.
   22. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: July 11, 2020 at 12:47 AM (#5962238)
Eric Kratz, please pick up the white courtesy phone.....
They called Aubrey Huff, but he refused to wear a mask.
   23. MuttsIdolCochrane Posted: July 11, 2020 at 05:34 AM (#5962265)
Family first of course, especially in this case. While there might be a case to be made even now, these next few years will determine his HOF chances more than any other player. His rate stats are way more than worthy but you have to play games, have ABs, and at least have moderate counting stats also. At this moment only 1,380 hits, 140 HRs, 673 ribbys and 595 runs scored means he needs at least some additions to these totals to get him closer to a lock. He will be 34 in 2022. I hope that Posey, a player I have always liked and rooted for can get in a few more decent years and cement his legacy.
   24. Starring Bradley Scotchman as RMc Posted: July 11, 2020 at 01:03 PM (#5962303)
I wonder if future HoF voters will assign "virus credit", the way "war credit" is given to players whose baseball careers were interrupted by WW2/Korea?
   25. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: July 11, 2020 at 01:19 PM (#5962306)

Eric Kratz, please pick up the white courtesy phone.....


The Royals starting and backup catcher now have COVID, and their third string catcher is on the IL for undisclosed reasons. There is going to be a bidding war for Kratz.
   26. puck Posted: July 11, 2020 at 01:41 PM (#5962311)
There was an article about Kopech in the Athletic. They didn't have much to go on and Kopech had not given a statement at that point at least.

It said he was not considered at risk, so he forgoes the pay and service time. So he's definitely serious about it as a pre-arb guy. Publicly the White Sox have been supportive.
   27. Howie Menckel Posted: July 11, 2020 at 04:14 PM (#5962329)
I think Kratz may be in the Yankees' system, but not sure if he is a "bubble boy."
   28. Walt Davis Posted: July 11, 2020 at 06:16 PM (#5962342)
#24 ... Except it's quite hard to establish that writers gave anybody war credit. Or at least enough that it ever mattered. DiMaggio was making it regardless of credit. Ted Williams might have received war credit but also didn't need it. Feller may have gotten some (1st ballot with 94%) but it wasn't really needed. Greenberg is the most likely example with just 6100 PA and it still took him several votes before he made it over the line (some of which was the 5-year thing hadn't been established but it seems some writers were establishing it, some of which was still plenty of backlog).

Others from that generation: Medwick and Boudreau didn't go to war; Musial missed one year but didn't need credit. Wynn missed one year but still made it to 300 wins. Spahn missed three younger seasons but didn't need any help.

Note I'm sure their service was mentioned by any voter who wrote a column about them and of course not needing credit doesn't mean it wasn't given. But a reasonable example where "filling in" may have occurred -- I only see Greenberg. Note Greenberg was awesome and a great peak-only candidate but he's still got one of the lowest PA totals for a HoF position player so it's reasonable to think at least some voters decided not to hold that against him.

To my knowledge, there's no evidence of voters giving work stoppage credit. Some players seem to have gotten "injury credit" for a career-ender but not for years lost in the middle. And of course in this case, Posey is choosing to miss time -- understandably so but still voluntary. If the virus keeps Trout from ever making that next PA for his 10th "season" or ends Scherzer's career or causes Acuna to miss 3 years (the he comes back and is awesome), I can see those guys might get credit. I really don't see how skipping 60 games at age 33 is going to matter. Now if we don't really see baseball again until 2023 then Posey's lack of PT wouldn't be held against him (or at least less so) and he might make it in on peak (which he might have anyway).
   29. Kiko Sakata Posted: July 11, 2020 at 06:25 PM (#5962343)
At this moment only 1,380 hits, 140 HRs, 673 ribbys and 595 runs scored means he needs at least some additions to these totals to get him closer to a lock. He will be 34 in 2022. I hope that Posey, a player I have always liked and rooted for can get in a few more decent years and cement his legacy.


Posey seems like a guy who could really benefit from the NL adding the DH. As for "COVID credit" that's definitely going to be a thing for the Hall of Merit but Walt's right that at least historically, there's not a lot of evidence that the BBWAA gave much credit for World War II. The HOFers who might have benefited from it in getting in - Joe Gordon, Phil Rizzuto, maybe Bobby Doerr - all went in via the Veterans' Committee. Although maybe it'll be easier if there just ends up not being a 2020 season so it's just a matter of adding one (or two?) season to everybody's career totals (and, to be fair to modern writers, the BBWAA does seem to have gotten more savvy lately).
   30. RJ in TO Posted: July 11, 2020 at 06:54 PM (#5962344)
Note I'm sure their service was mentioned by any voter who wrote a column about them and of course not needing credit doesn't mean it wasn't given. But a reasonable example where "filling in" may have occurred -- I only see Greenberg. Note Greenberg was awesome and a great peak-only candidate but he's still got one of the lowest PA totals for a HoF position player so it's reasonable to think at least some voters decided not to hold that against him.
Greenberg was the first player to register for the draft, appealed the draft board's initial attempt to classify him as 4F, was the first player inducted (in 1941), was honorably discharged at the end of 1941, reenlisted in early 1942, and then later requested overseas service. He served a total of 47 months. If any player deserved credit for service in the second world war, it was Greenberg, and it is very likely he was one of the few who got credit for it.

In comparison, for players who likely would have met the standards for the Hall had they received war credit, Mize had to wait until 1981, Rizzuto had to wait until 1994, and Joe Gordon had to wait until 2009. Mize's case is exceptionally weird, as he was fully qualified for the Hall without war credit.
   31. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: July 11, 2020 at 07:29 PM (#5962347)
I wonder if future HoF voters will assign "virus credit", the way "war credit" is given to players whose baseball careers were interrupted by WW2/Korea?

I think it's more like the missing players are missing Spring training, because that's about all this farce of a "season" is fast amounting to. And it's only likely to get worse.

   32. JJ1986 Posted: July 11, 2020 at 09:23 PM (#5962366)
I think it's more like the missing players are missing Spring training, because that's about all this farce of a "season" is fast amounting to. And it's only likely to get worse.
Not credit for absent players (specifically), credit for all players.
   33. Ron J Posted: July 11, 2020 at 09:55 PM (#5962368)
#30 One interesting thing about Greenberg is that a number of people genuinely didn't think he was qualified. There was a lot more written about how his election wrecked the standards of the Hall than "but for the war" columns.
   34. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: July 11, 2020 at 10:37 PM (#5962375)
JJ1986 (#32),

AFAIC I'd assign a WAR number of 0.0 to every player who takes part in this glorified Grapefruit and Cactus League, since the games have no real meaning beyond exhibition games. The team that wins the "World Series" will undoubtedly get its rings and pretend it's accomplished something, but few other players or teams will have much cause to remember it.
   35. Hank Gillette Posted: July 12, 2020 at 11:27 AM (#5962406)
But a reasonable example where "filling in" may have occurred -- I only see Greenberg. Note Greenberg was awesome and a great peak-only candidate but he's still got one of the lowest PA totals for a HoF position player so it's reasonable to think at least some voters decided not to hold that against him.


I’m sure you know this, but it bears mentioning that Greenberg lost more time to WWII than any other established player. Only 19 games in 1941, then three full years missed, and less than a half-season in 1945. If anyone deserved wartime credit, it was Greenberg (and Ted Williams, but it took two wars for Williams to miss as much time as Greenberg did in one).

Greenberg was actually discharged on December 5, 1941, after a law was passed that men over 28 would not be drafted, but after Pearl Harbor, he volunteered to reenlist.
   36. Mayor Blomberg Posted: July 12, 2020 at 12:50 PM (#5962412)
More on Michael Kopech

"I don't know what is going on with Michael, but I know he deals with some anxiety and depression, and my thought is, I sure hope he's OK," Cooper told the Sun-Times. "And I hope he gets to where he needs to be, where he's feeling good and wants to come back, because we will welcome him back with open arms."
...
"Last time I saw him in spring training, he was in a great place," Cooper told the Sun-Times. "But let me put it this way: I sure hope the kid is OK. I'm concerned that he's not OK."
...
The White Sox did not announce Friday whether Kopech has tested positive for COVID-19 or has been exposed to the virus, with general manager Rick Hahn saying in a statement that "reaching this decision is incredibly difficult for any competitive athlete, and our organization is understanding and supportive."
   37. The Yankee Clapper Posted: July 12, 2020 at 01:50 PM (#5962420)
AFAIC I'd assign a WAR number of 0.0 to every player who takes part in this glorified Grapefruit and Cactus League, since the games have no real meaning beyond exhibition games. The team that wins the "World Series" will undoubtedly get its rings and pretend it's accomplished something, but few other players or teams will have much cause to remember it.
Complaining that the 2020 MLB season is insufficiently authentic is a bit like whining because restaurants in some places are only open for carry out. You take what you can get.
   38. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: July 12, 2020 at 01:55 PM (#5962421)
I’m sure you know this, but it bears mentioning that Greenberg lost more time to WWII than any other established player. Only 19 games in 1941, then three full years missed, and less than a half-season in 1945. If anyone deserved wartime credit, it was Greenberg (and Ted Williams, but it took two wars for Williams to miss as much time as Greenberg did in one).

Bob Feller wasn't that far behind Greenberg in terms of lost career time. He volunteered right after Pearl Harbor, missed 3 full seasons, and while Greenberg's first game in 1945 was on July 1st, Feller's debut that year wasn't until August 24th. Not quite as long a stretch as Greenberg, but in terms of World War II Feller accumulated more missed time than any other superstar.
   39. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: July 12, 2020 at 01:57 PM (#5962422)
AFAIC I'd assign a WAR number of 0.0 to every player who takes part in this glorified Grapefruit and Cactus League, since the games have no real meaning beyond exhibition games. The team that wins the "World Series" will undoubtedly get its rings and pretend it's accomplished something, but few other players or teams will have much cause to remember it.

Complaining that the 2020 MLB season is insufficiently authentic is a bit like whining because restaurants in some places are only open for carry out. You take what you can get.


You take what you can get, but you don't pretend it's got anything to do with with the sort of competition we had up through 2019 or (hopefully) we'll have once again in 2021. And without the crowds it's like watching a ballet performance without an orchestra.
   40. Walt Davis Posted: July 12, 2020 at 06:32 PM (#5962449)
Piffle. The competition, if it goes down as planned, is no less legitimate than the absurdity of 1981 or the unfinished 1994. There will still be a larger contingent of ML talent on the field than during the war years. If they can get the thing off the ground, we'll be seeing real major league players competing to win games.

I'm not sure how my post came across as questioning Greenberg's service. I have no particular issue with giving war credit and if anybody deserves it, it's Greenberg -- not just for his service but also because he was still a force when he came back so it's very likely he'd have had very good seasons in that alternate universe. And I had meant to add Mize at some point.

The war credit question also applies to Negro Leagues credit. The NeL committees of course handled the major NeL players but there's little evidence any ML player handled by the BBWAA received any credit. It wasn't enough to get Doby (VC) or Minoso over the line. Possibly it helped Campanella but of course he had 3 MVPs and a tragic accident. I can see why the BBWAA didn't vote him in (not sure I agree but I see why) but I don't understand why a VC hasn't added Minoso.
   41. Lowry Seasoning Salt Posted: July 12, 2020 at 06:51 PM (#5962454)
The competition, if it goes down as planned, is no less legitimate than the absurdity of 1981 or the unfinished 1994. There will still be a larger contingent of ML talent on the field than during the war years. If they can get the thing off the ground, we'll be seeing real major league players competing to win games.


I know if I were a Cubs, Red Sox, or White Sox fan, this season would not feel as gratifying if it were the one that ended the decades-long championship droughts. The same is true for me if I were a fan of one of the teams that has never won it all. You and others may feel differently.
   42. PreservedFish Posted: July 12, 2020 at 06:53 PM (#5962455)
The team that wins the "World Series" will undoubtedly get its rings and pretend it's accomplished something, but few other players or teams will have much cause to remember it.


On the contrary, I think it could be quite memorable. If it happens.
   43. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: July 12, 2020 at 07:13 PM (#5962462)
I know if I were a Cubs, Red Sox, or White Sox fan, this season would not feel as gratifying if it were the one that ended the decades-long championship droughts.

Judging from the simmed results from OOTP and Strat-O-Matic, that looks like a quandry we Rangers fans won't have to grapple with this season.
   44. Howie Menckel Posted: July 12, 2020 at 07:44 PM (#5962469)
more hijinks ahead, from NY Post's Joel Sherman:

"In the now scheduled 67-day season, players will receive roughly 2.78 days of service for every day the season is played beginning July 23 (if it begins July 23).

Normally a player needs 172 days of service to accrue a year. Astros center fielder George Springer has five years and 166 days of service because in 2014 he was held down just long enough to make sure he would need to play seven seasons to reach free agency rather than six. He did not file a grievance. But if he still carries animosity, he could, for example, choose not to play after July 24 and still have amassed the six service days (the fraction is rounded up) to qualify for free agency after the season.

James Paxton needs seven days to qualify for free agency, Marcus Stroman eight, A’s star shortstop Marcus Semien 19, Dodgers right fielder Mookie Betts (the top projected potential free agent) 36.

When asked if there is the expectation is that multiple players — especially those who were concerned about playing within the pandemic — will jump once certain service-time criteria are reached, an official for an AL team said, “There is no doubt it is going to go on.”
   45. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: July 12, 2020 at 07:52 PM (#5962470)
Piffle. The competition, if it goes down as planned, is no less legitimate than the absurdity of 1981 or the unfinished 1994. There will still be a larger contingent of ML talent on the field than during the war years. If they can get the thing off the ground, we'll be seeing real major league players competing to win games.

The war years were AAAA in quality, but at least there was a complete schedule and normal World Series, and there were no health questions hanging over those seasons like the Sword of Damocles that's hanging over this one.

1981 was absurd because of its split season standings that left the Reds and the Cardinals out in the cold. But it had a regular Spring training and two thirds of a regular season. It also had real extra inning games and actual people in the stands.

1994 was aborted, but it had nearly twice as many games as this season will have. The biggest absurdity was in the lack of a postseason, but other than that, the rest of the season was a normal one.

2020 will have a patchwork Spring training, patchwork playing conditions, stars MIA, Mickey Mouse rules, a 14 team postseason, and a 60 game schedule without even any interdivisional play. It reeks of nothing but desperation, and displays about the same degree of foresight and planning as the Trump administration has in coping with Covid-19.
   46. Mayor Blomberg Posted: July 12, 2020 at 08:56 PM (#5962475)
I know if I were a Cubs, Red Sox, or White Sox fan, this season would not feel as gratifying if it were the one that ended the decades-long championship droughts.


Yankee fan, and I agree. (Hey, it's the 20s now and the last one was the aughts)
   47. Howie Menckel Posted: July 12, 2020 at 08:58 PM (#5962476)
a 14 team postseason


the 10-team MLB postseason this year only has 10 teams.

you're thinking of the Big Ten, I think. they have 14 teams.
   48. Dennis Eclairskey, closer Posted: July 12, 2020 at 09:04 PM (#5962478)
There is going to be a bidding war for Kratz.

Is a Molina brother available?
   49. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: July 12, 2020 at 10:30 PM (#5962496)
a 14 team postseason

the 10-team MLB postseason this year only has 10 teams.

you're thinking of the Big Ten, I think. they have 14 teams.


My bad, Howie, but when I googled "MLB 2020 postseason format", this popped up at the top of my screen:

Postseason play would be expanded from 10 teams to 14, with each league fielding three division winners and four wild card teams.


On double checking, though, I found another entry that explained that it was going to be limited to 10 teams. That above quote was apparently one of the earlier proposals, since discarded.
   50. Howie Menckel Posted: July 12, 2020 at 11:04 PM (#5962500)
that is true, St. Nick

a casualty of the negotiations
   51. Ziggy: social distancing since 1980 Posted: July 13, 2020 at 10:19 AM (#5962555)
#30 One interesting thing about Greenberg is that a number of people genuinely didn't think he was qualified.


How on earth do you look at Hank ******* Greenberg and think "not qualified"? Sans war credit his career is a bit short, but he's still a 4x HR champ who slugged >600 every full season except his first and his last.

As for the hijinks in #44: I think this is called "sweet, sweet revenge". Hopefully Bryant plays two weeks (or whatever), and then says that he needs to go home to work on his defense.
   52. Greg Pope Posted: July 13, 2020 at 10:37 AM (#5962559)
When asked if there is the expectation is that multiple players — especially those who were concerned about playing within the pandemic — will jump once certain service-time criteria are reached, an official for an AL team said, “There is no doubt it is going to go on.”

Wow, I never considered that. I knew that the players were getting full year service time but didn't think about how that would work. What happens if the league pulls the plug after, say, 10 games? There's an outbreak, teams can't field full teams, etc. Is Betts still a free agent? He wouldn't have the full year's service time if it's prorated.
   53. SoSH U at work Posted: July 13, 2020 at 10:40 AM (#5962560)
Hopefully Bryant plays two weeks (or whatever), and then says that he needs to go home to work on his defense.


That would make the entire experience worthwhile.
   54. Ron J Posted: July 13, 2020 at 10:54 AM (#5962561)
#51 In Politics of Glory James notes that the Hall made a change in procedure specifically in response to Greenberg's selection:

Unfortunately, the Hall of Fame made another foolish attempt to adopt an artificial standard. Horrified that players of the caliber of Hank Greenberg were now being selected (although Greenberg was far better than the players selected ten years earlier by the Old-Timers Committee), the Hall changed the rules.


And some place -- either in the book or in another piece on Greenberg he has a discussion on what we mean when we say HOFer. It's accurate to say that Greenberg was only the third best first baseman in the AL in the 1930s. But of course, if you set the standard at Jimmy Foxx it's going to be a damned small Hall. And of course Greenberg played beyond the 30s and can be sensibly compared to Jimmy Foxx which is obviously a high standard case.
   55. SoSH U at work Posted: July 13, 2020 at 11:12 AM (#5962566)
So how much of the resistance to Greenberg's Hall case was just antisemitism disguised as analysis?
   56. Ron J Posted: July 13, 2020 at 11:21 AM (#5962568)
#55 Interesting question. As James pointed out, the Veterans Committees in past years had inducted far weaker players and while there were always murmurs of discontent they got a heck of a lot louder after Greenberg's induction.
   57. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: July 13, 2020 at 11:29 AM (#5962569)
Was there any resistance when Koufax was elected? I haven't heard about any. The parallels are more than that they are/were both Jewish - both had relatively short but dominant careers, Koufax was the third best pitcher in the NL in the 1960s behind Marichal and Gibson (by WAR, anyway - I know he was perceived as the best by a lot of people). Koufax was elected in 1972, Greenberg in 1956. Did we make substantial gains against anti-Semitism in those 16 years?
   58. Ron J Posted: July 13, 2020 at 11:33 AM (#5962571)
#57 Roughly zero resistance to Koufax. I don't know that this can be cited as evidence though. "Everybody" considered him an all-time great whose career was cut short by things beyond his control.
   59. bunyon Posted: July 13, 2020 at 12:00 PM (#5962578)
1994 was aborted, but it had nearly twice as many games as this season will have.

Perfect. Let's combine 1994 and 2020. We start in July with the standings as they were on August 12, 1994 and go from there.


Hopefully Bryant plays two weeks (or whatever), and then says that he needs to go home to work on his defense.


That would make the entire experience worthwhile.


That would make COVID-19 worthwhile.
   60. PreservedFish Posted: July 13, 2020 at 02:14 PM (#5962628)
Hopefully Bryant plays two weeks (or whatever), and then says that he needs to go home to work on his defense.



This is the most beautiful idea.
   61. sunday silence (again) Posted: July 13, 2020 at 05:24 PM (#5962734)

2020 will have a patchwork Spring training, patchwork playing conditions, stars MIA, Mickey Mouse rules, a 14 team postseason, and a 60 game schedule without even any interdivisional play. It reeks of nothing but desperation, and displays about the same degree of foresight and planning as the Trump administration has in coping with Covid-19.


I think Andy makes some fair points, I dont disagree with these concerns, but I also think its premature to decide how the 2020 season will be viewed by history. "History" by definition requires one to think about events after some time has passed. I think its far better to wait and see how it all plays out before deciding that this season was a failure, or doesnt exist, or whatever. Just wait and see.
   62. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: July 13, 2020 at 08:05 PM (#5962752)
1994 was aborted, but it had nearly twice as many games as this season will have.

Perfect. Let's combine 1994 and 2020. We start in July with the standings as they were on August 12, 1994 and go from there.


Now that I could go for, even if by all rights the Nats would have to play two-thirds of their home games in Montreal. Preferably in Jarry Park.

--------------------------------

I think Andy makes some fair points, I dont disagree with these concerns, but I also think its premature to decide how the 2020 season will be viewed by history. "History" by definition requires one to think about events after some time has passed. I think its far better to wait and see how it all plays out before deciding that this season was a failure, or doesn't exist, or whatever. Just wait and see.

As I wrote on Discord, I'm sure I'll watch the games out of a force of habit, but I'm under no illusions that these will be anything but meaningless exhibition contests. It's an Emperor's New Clothes kind of season.
   63. Zach Posted: July 13, 2020 at 08:10 PM (#5962753)
I think it will be hard to make a case either way, but
a) the difference between 162 and 60 games in one season really shouldn't be the deciding factor for anything important,
b) baseball is being played this season under rules known to all, by the best players available,
c) time missed due to a personal decision should be treated differently from time missed due to circumstances out of a player's control.
   64. Zach Posted: July 13, 2020 at 08:14 PM (#5962754)
Let's be honest: *all* baseball games are meaningless exhibition games. A pennant race is just a way to add interest to the season.
   65. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: July 13, 2020 at 08:17 PM (#5962755)
I know if I were a Cubs, Red Sox, or White Sox fan, this season would not feel as gratifying if it were the one that ended the decades-long championship droughts.


Certainly true for this Cubs fan, but that's mainly because they won't be playing baseball.

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