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Tuesday, December 06, 2022

Guardians, Josh Bell agree on a two-year, $33 million deal

RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: December 06, 2022 at 03:56 PM | 45 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: guardians, josh bell

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   1. Walt Davis Posted: December 06, 2022 at 04:30 PM (#6108315)
This seems quite reasonable. He seems prone to some extended slumps (2020, Padres 2022, maybe chunks of other seasons) but it's been working out fine in the end. A 2-3 WAR player on a 2-year contract should be fine. If Naylor repeats, the Guardians are pretty well set at 1B/DH, putting some solid average-ness around Ramirez and Gimenez.
   2. Infinite Yost (Voxter) Posted: December 06, 2022 at 04:36 PM (#6108317)
How long till I get used to seeing "Guardians" in headlines? Also, what are the chances we can get them to reconsider and pick something less lame?
   3. A triple short of the cycle Posted: December 06, 2022 at 06:15 PM (#6108337)
How did they end up as Guardians anyway. Not a great name. I recall there was a lot of discussion here beforehand about Naps and Spiders.
   4. baerga1 Posted: December 06, 2022 at 06:36 PM (#6108344)
The name refers to the statues on the Hope Memorial bridge, the most noteworthy of the Cleveland bridges. The statues themselves are called the "Guardians of Traffic," which is a lame name for a statue, but I'm guessing the word "traffic" has different connotations now than it did in 1927..

I like the team name. It is relevant to the city itself and it connotates strength, tradition, etc. Still getting used to it myself, though. I'm giving it ten years to sink in before I decide Spiders would have been better..
   5. baerga1 Posted: December 06, 2022 at 06:36 PM (#6108345)
Also, good signing by the guardians.
   6. Infinite Yost (Voxter) Posted: December 06, 2022 at 06:41 PM (#6108349)
I guess it didn't take me that long to adjust from Expos to Nationals, but they had changed cities and uniforms. Though Expos was an enjoyably weird name for a baseball team.

I guess I don't like Guardians because it feels generic, like an MLS name or something. I've heard about those statues, but seriously? That's the best local landmark they could come up with? Spiders would have been a much better name.
   7. salvomania Posted: December 06, 2022 at 07:02 PM (#6108356)
The runner-up name was the Pyramids, after the pyramidal Rock'n'Roll Hall of Fame building.
   8. Ziggy: social distancing since 1980 Posted: December 06, 2022 at 07:12 PM (#6108358)
"Pyramids" for the RR HOF? how about "The Cleveland Rocks". Get Drew Carey for a mascot.
   9. SoSH U at work Posted: December 06, 2022 at 07:18 PM (#6108359)
The Guardians of Traffic sit just a few yards away from Jacobs Field, so it's not just any Cleveland landmark. I think it was a great name, much better than rebooting Spiders, perhaps the sport's most terrible team.

   10. Jay Seaver Posted: December 06, 2022 at 07:24 PM (#6108361)
I suspect the deciding factor was that "Guardians" rolls off the tongue in the same way as "Indians", and I imagine that in a case like this, where the change was the sort of thing that gets a certain flavor of loudmouth riled up, not having the regular rhythms of the broadcast, sports talk, everyday conversation, etc. broke up was likely a big deal. Like, it doesn't really announce that the name's been changed.
   11. Infinite Yost (Voxter) Posted: December 06, 2022 at 07:25 PM (#6108362)
Spiders, perhaps the sport's most terrible team.


I just don't understand why this matters. Every team save maybe the Yankees and Cardinals have terrible stretches on their resume. Didn't make their names unuseable.
   12. cardsfanboy Posted: December 06, 2022 at 07:35 PM (#6108370)
I just don't understand why this matters. Every team save maybe the Yankees and Cardinals have terrible stretches on their resume. Didn't make their names unuseable.


The early 1900 Cardinal teams prove even that isn't true.
   13. SoSH U at work Posted: December 06, 2022 at 07:38 PM (#6108371)
I just don't understand why this matters.


Fine, then just go with rebooting a name from 120 years ago is lacking any imagination.

I like sports teams names that have a unique connection to the place where the team plays. Guardians does. Spiders does not.

   14. The Yankee Clapper Posted: December 06, 2022 at 07:39 PM (#6108373)
I just don't understand why this matters.
The Spiders were 19th century, and the only thing even avid baseball fans know about them is that they had the worst season in major league history. For similar reasons, no team has picked up the long available Black Sox moniker.
   15. cardsfanboy Posted: December 06, 2022 at 07:45 PM (#6108376)
I'm with SoSH on this, spiders feels like a name a 12 year old gives to his video game team. (Mind you a lot of existing team names also have the feeling) And it's not a bad name, if you can't come up with something that works for the area though and still feels like something 'powerful' then you should try to incorporate that. I'm not used to Guardians yet, but I'll get there.
   16. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: December 06, 2022 at 07:48 PM (#6108378)
I like sports teams names that have a unique connection to the place where the team plays. Guardians does. Spiders does not.

How about Naps then? Or Cuyahogas? Or Eries?

Guardians sounds like a comic book movie franchise that they made way too many of.
   17. cardsfanboy Posted: December 06, 2022 at 08:04 PM (#6108382)
Guardians sounds like a comic book movie franchise that they made way too many of.


But it had a Bear with a minigun that is cool as heck. (I know I'm proving your point)
   18. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 06, 2022 at 08:34 PM (#6108386)
I guess it didn't take me that long to adjust from Expos to Nationals, but they had changed cities and uniforms. Though Expos was an enjoyably weird name for a baseball team

The Expos were named after the Expo 67 World Fair that was held in Montreal.

   19. SoSH U at work Posted: December 06, 2022 at 08:39 PM (#6108387)
How about Naps then? Or Cuyahogas? Or Eries?


I'd definitely prefer Naps over Spiders. Cuyahogas wouldn't be bad; Eries not so much.

I really wanted them to go completely off the board and defy conventional North American naming convention of place name/plural noun for pro sports teams, but I realize I'm very much in the minority there.

   20. JJ1986 Posted: December 06, 2022 at 08:52 PM (#6108388)
Real Cleveland
   21. Howie Menckel Posted: December 06, 2022 at 09:09 PM (#6108390)
have mentioned before that I visited Cleveland probably 25 or 30 times or so in my younger days.

often only a night or two, but sometimes 4 or 5. I met countless locals and had good conversations.

none of them ever mentioned these supposedly beloved statues. in most cities, once they find out you're a visitor, there's an inevitable sales pitch about what's cool about the city. that's even more true in the Midwest.

also have been to Indianapolis dozens of times, and the majority of cabbies would tout St. Elmo's Steakhouse as if it was the 8th Wonder of the World. kind of silly, but it's a pride thing - they want you to like and recommend the city, and they have been told that's a good way to help the cause.

fwiw, the hot topic in Cleveland 30 years ago was an area called "The Flats," which had some really good indoor/outdoor bars. Cleveland Flats?

meanwhile, have any Clevelanders actually said that these statues were a core part of the identity of the city, before this naming decision?

all I have ever read is "well, there are statues called that" and "it's better than Spiders because that team sucked" and "hey, don't make fun of us."
   22. Infinite Yost (Voxter) Posted: December 06, 2022 at 09:10 PM (#6108391)
For similar reasons, no team has picked up the long available Black Sox moniker.


Yes, no team has picked up the long available moniker of the worst gambling scandal in American sports history. They are exactly the same.
   23. The Yankee Clapper Posted: December 06, 2022 at 09:20 PM (#6108394)
Yes, no team has picked up the long available moniker of the worst gambling scandal in American sports history. They are exactly the same.
Not the same, just similarly negative.
   24. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: December 06, 2022 at 09:43 PM (#6108397)
I don't love the name "Guardians", but all of my family from Cleveland (none of them sports fans) instantly knew what the name was referring to, so it definitely has some local resonance.
   25. Howie Menckel Posted: December 06, 2022 at 09:45 PM (#6108398)
ok, Votto has me warming to the nickname a little bit, at least
   26. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: December 06, 2022 at 10:03 PM (#6108407)
Cleveland Firelake.

There's a name with historical precedence and not plural to satisfy SOSH!
   27. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: December 06, 2022 at 10:17 PM (#6108411)
Yes, no team has picked up the long available moniker of the worst gambling scandal in American sports history. They are exactly the same.

Not the same, just similarly negative.


The difference is there was no MLB team called "Black Sox". The point might be valid if the White Sox had stopped using that name after the scandal, but they didn't.

The only team actually named the "Black Sox" was a Negro League team that played after the scandal, and I think they had a completely different interpretation of what Black meant in context.
   28. SoSH U at work Posted: December 06, 2022 at 10:36 PM (#6108415)
There's a name with historical precedence and not plural to satisfy SOSH!


Not the kind of deviation I was looking for.
   29. cHiEf iMpaCt oFfiCEr JE Posted: December 06, 2022 at 10:46 PM (#6108417)
The ownership should have gone with Cleveland Baseball Team.
   30. vortex of dissipation Posted: December 06, 2022 at 10:51 PM (#6108419)
"Pyramids" for the RR HOF? how about "The Cleveland Rocks".


Cleveland Hunters.
   31. Ziggy: social distancing since 1980 Posted: December 07, 2022 at 12:02 AM (#6108421)
I would have been okay with "Cleveland Americans" - what the Indians went by back in the day anyway. Same trick as the Nationals, just the other league. Would also appease aforementioned loudmouths.
   32. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: December 07, 2022 at 12:25 AM (#6108422)
Guardians sounds like a comic book movie franchise that they made way too many of.
Possibly, but the galaxy should be at least marginally better off with Josh Bell at first base.
   33. Baldrick Posted: December 07, 2022 at 03:42 AM (#6108428)
Naps would be an absolutely terrible name. I do not understand how people can seriously propose this. I didn't love Guardians at first, but it's absolutely fine, and given the landmines out there they could have stepped on, I'll happily accept cromulent-but-uninspiring.
   34. Baldrick Posted: December 07, 2022 at 03:45 AM (#6108429)
Also, I have no idea where to propose this, but can we please have a new Tracker post?
   35. Russ Posted: December 07, 2022 at 09:53 AM (#6108469)
To be fair, this is a place where THE LAKE ROUTINELY CAUGHT ON FIRE. Having Guardians for a bridge makes perfect sense.
   36. Adam Starblind Posted: December 07, 2022 at 11:23 AM (#6108495)
A strong Cleveland Spiders team would be a nice redemption story.

I certainly don't think the Cleveland Naps is a good name. Who's the mascot? Rip Van Winkle?
   37. cardsfanboy Posted: December 07, 2022 at 11:41 AM (#6108500)
Naps just feels like some type of derogatory name for someone.
   38. Stevey Posted: December 07, 2022 at 11:41 AM (#6108501)
Naps would be an absolutely terrible name. I do not understand how people can seriously propose this.


Its a reference to what is arguably* the greatest player in franchise history.

*Depending on how much credit you want to give to Feller for going to WW2.
   39. baerga1 Posted: December 07, 2022 at 11:45 AM (#6108505)
So I tend to agree that probably not many Clevelanders knew the statues were called the Guardians, but I do think the bridge and statues themselves are iconic within the city. In fact, let's not forget that they are literally the opening shot of a very famous baseball movie.

   40. cardsfanboy Posted: December 07, 2022 at 11:48 AM (#6108507)
Its a reference to what is arguably* the greatest player in franchise history.


I get what it's for, just stating that it feels like a slur of some sort.
   41. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: December 07, 2022 at 12:01 PM (#6108511)
I get what it's for, just stating that it feels like a slur of some sort.

One primarily used by French Monarchists?
   42. Adam Starblind Posted: December 07, 2022 at 12:43 PM (#6108518)

Its a reference to what is arguably* the greatest player in franchise history.


It also means to fall asleep.
   43. baerga1 Posted: December 07, 2022 at 01:38 PM (#6108533)
Yeah it feels somewhat racey to me too.. in the Imus vein.
   44. Baldrick Posted: December 07, 2022 at 02:32 PM (#6108552)
As a general rule, I strongly dislike the idea of naming a team after one specific player. It feels antithetical to the whole idea of it being a TEAM.

But even setting that aside, it's just pretty clearly a bad idea to have your nickname literally be a synonym for falling asleep (not the message you want to send about your baseball team). Also doesn't help if it kind of sounds like a slur.
   45. SoSH U at work Posted: December 07, 2022 at 02:38 PM (#6108556)
As a general rule, I strongly dislike the idea of naming a team after one specific player. It feels antithetical to the whole idea of it being a TEAM.


IIRC, you had a similar strong stance during the Taking Back the Ballparks series.

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