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Sunday, December 19, 2021

Here’s how the next 5 HOF ballots look

2025 ballot
Top first-time candidate(s): Ichiro Suzuki, CC Sabathia
It’s pretty easy to imagine these two giving induction speeches in July 2025. For Ichiro, it was a matter of when, not if, with his 15 games played in 2018 and two in ‘19 delaying his arrival on the ballot. His 3,000-plus MLB hits and larger impact on the game should make him an overwhelming choice. Meanwhile, Sabathia bolstered his case by crossing the 250-win and 3,000-strikeout plateaus in his final season, to go along with a Cy Young Award and other accomplishments.

RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: December 19, 2021 at 08:47 PM | 41 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: hall of fame

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   1. John DiFool2 Posted: December 20, 2021 at 11:41 AM (#6058068)
It's not those that I am worried about.

It's the ~2030-2040 ones (depends on the timing of the retirements of Pujols/Miggy as well as Grienke & the other top veteran SPs). We could very well go from 10+ arguably viable candidates per year to 0-3 (not new adds, TOTAL on the ballot). If the voters don't loosen their standards at all, it will be very lean times.
   2. JJ1986 Posted: December 20, 2021 at 11:56 AM (#6058070)
The thing that stands out to me is just how few starting pitchers are going to be real candidates.
   3. Dennis Eclairskey, closer Posted: December 20, 2021 at 12:06 PM (#6058072)
Beltran will be interesting for me. I think he did just enough as a player to warrant BBWAA election (albeit not on the first couple of ballots) but his role in the Astros scandal muddies & complicates his case.

I agree about the lack of starting pitcher candidates. I think CC will sail in after a couple of ballots but I definitely do not think the HOF line is Sabathia in, Hudson out. Buehrle isn’t too far from CC either. Pettitte has PED issues but is close to CC as well

Rollins looks like he may clear 5% this year. His teammate Utley will hit a less crowded ballot but with better saber stats. Utley’s support will be intriguing
   4. DL from MN Posted: December 20, 2021 at 12:13 PM (#6058074)
It's going to be interesting because the Era Committee will generally have much better players available to induct than the writers for about a decade.

The thing that stands out to me is just how few starting pitchers are going to be real candidates.


If the writers induct Bartolo Colon after dismissing Johan Santana I might throw a hissy fit. They'll probably just induct CC and K-Rod while Felix gets ignored.
   5. SoSH U at work Posted: December 20, 2021 at 01:05 PM (#6058085)
If the writers induct Bartolo Colon after dismissing Johan Santana I might throw a hissy fit.


There's no chance of that happening.

CC will go in, but I don't see anyone else entering until the run of Kershaw, Verlander, Greinke, Scherzer starts.

   6. John DiFool2 Posted: December 20, 2021 at 01:06 PM (#6058086)
The thing that stands out to me is just how few starting pitchers are going to be real candidates.


As I intimated in my post, for a few years we'll have a wealth of deserving candidates in Kershaw, Verlander, Grienke, and Scherzer. They'll all appear during the 2028-2033 period.

It's AFTER that which truly scares me. Clayton Kershaw may be the last starting pitcher elected by the BBWAA for a very, VERY long time. This 5 inning 3 times through the order crap looks to have taken hold in pretty much every ML manager's mind (crap as in aesthetically repugnant, because alas looks like the numbers back up this strategy).
   7. DL from MN Posted: December 20, 2021 at 01:11 PM (#6058087)
CC will go in, but I don't see anyone else entering


Pitchers are useless anyway. I mean, what do they do to help a team win?
   8. Steve Balboni's Personal Trainer Posted: December 20, 2021 at 02:39 PM (#6058097)
I think a real story of the HOF voting process is the number of slots that are opening up after this year, irrespective of who (if anybody) gets 75%. Just the Bonds/Clemens/Schilling trio (plus Sosa) is hundreds of open slots, and I suspect that most of the voters who submit full 10-person ballots are including most of these four guys. It would seem like most of those voters would have at least a few candidates they could support if they were not limited to 10. I would be curious to see an analysis of the patterns of those who submit full ballots: Are there a few candidates who get mentioned a lot as "I would vote for X if I could" in columns? Who are the highest overall vote getters who appear the least often on the 10-checkmark ballots? That sort of thing.

I would bet that Jeff Kent gets left off a lot of ballots from people who probably go something like this:

Bonds
Clemens
Schilling
Ortiz
ARod
Sheffield
Helton
Rolen
Manny
Jones/Wagner/Sosa/Vizquel

I'd also be curious to see:
1) What percentage of 10-checkmark voters have historically included Vizquel; and
2) Whether or not they are the people most likely to drop him off this year, especially given that they likely see other worthy candidates to fill the ballot.
   9. SoSH U at work Posted: December 20, 2021 at 02:44 PM (#6058098)
Unless something emerges that exonerates him fully, Vizquel is done.
   10. taxandbeerguy Posted: December 20, 2021 at 03:05 PM (#6058105)
8- I'd think Kent could get a bump next year in that a) It's 10th year, b) He's still the 11th or 12th guy on a lot of ballots that are full (Kind of like Sheffield in the past 2-3 years, but Sheffield's a little better and therefore was added earlier). How much of a bump remains to be seen, but figure he could get high 40's with the ballot clearing significantly one way or another. That'd set him up for eventual veterans committee election.

I know that if I had a ballot, Kent was getting dropped this year, but would be re-added next year.

I'm feeling like Ortiz is a very important vote this year, if he gets in, path is laid for Rolen in 2023 (That may already be the case, but Rolen would like be the highest returning vote-getter). Beltran maybe gets in 2023 (although i could see him waiting a few years). Beltre is a lock in 2024. Mauer, I think gets in first ballot too. Utley won't be in but will get sizeable support (20-30%) and will build from there. Sheffield is hopefully up over 50% and could be an option for a Veterans committee. Ichiro! is a lock for 2025 and maybe Wagner gets in on his last ballot. Sabathia should get in quickly but could see him waiting a year. 2026 would be backlog and resembles 2021, so could see a Helton and / or Andruw slipping in that year as their support continues to swell. 2027 would be Posey and maybe Jones / Helton if they are not yet in. Improvements to defensive metrics would be helpful to all three of these guys and could turn the tide one way or another.

With Ortiz waiting a year (I don't see how he waits past 2023, with the way votes are going, the absence of Bonds, Clemens, Sosa and Schilling) It could push back the time lines a year or two, maybe Rolen waits an extra year, maybe Mauer has to wait a couple years, maybe Wagner has to wait for Veteran's and maybe one of Jones / Helton doesn't go in via the writers.

Also with all this, Abreu becomes a more interesting candidate - does he have room to shoot up to 20-30% in 2023 with more ballot space? Buehrle, Hudson, Hunter and Rollins (so far) could be in the same boat if they can survive to a second /third ballot. Pettitte feels different, he will stay on, I just don't get any sense that there will be significant adds in the coming years.

And to 6 - Beyond those 4 locks, it is looking like a wasteland for pitchers. Best guesses would be Sale (who might appear in that time frame), deGrom (ditto), Cole and after that I'm not seeing much. Shane Bieber maybe if he's healthy and effective. There's a bunch of guys who have it for a couple years but then fall off. Could be another 80's wasteland where the best candidates are Gooden (burned so bright for a short time), Saberhagen (peaky), Stieb and then Morris (undeserving but got in), Eckerlsey (hybrid) and some relievers who are in and late career Ryan and Blyleven, with a few big years early in the decade from the 70's guys (Seaver, Carlton, Niekro).

   11. Walt Davis Posted: December 20, 2021 at 03:24 PM (#6058109)
An enterprising analyst can actually track the non-anon voters over time via Thibs' HoF Tracker. Next year will be very interesting. It's certainly the case this year that the full ballots nearly all have B/C on them and most have Schilling. Vizquel is indeed done but the B/C -- Vizquel overlap wasn't that large and Omar did quite well among the anonymous who are mostly not full balloteers. Kent is getting hurt this year by Ortiz/ARod coming on and crowding him out -- both voters who have dropped him are full ballots. But Kent has never had enough traction to make an impact anyway and next year is his last year -- he'll get those two votes back and maybe a sizable bunch more of the B/C/S/S votes but he can't close that much ground in a year. I'm confident a VC will put him in though.

Manny, Andruw, Sammy and Helton have also lost ground on full ballots mostly. That's a double-edged sword of course -- to a large extent, the people voting for them were the ones with the lowest standards (and no PEDs qualms) and they're the ones jettisoned when space is needed. That means they were fringe at best and, even if the 10-man limit was gotten rid of, wouldn't have made any real progress. (Note, getting rid of the 10-man limit might have a bigger "psychological" effect in that it sends the message "you're not voting for enough people" but that's not what we're discussing here.)

Starters -- sure. Assuming usage has plateaued, the BBWAA will have no choice but to changes its standards. A run of about 1200 dominant innings will probably be enough to at least get you on the radar, somewhere around 1500-1800 will look very good, 2000+ probably gets you in. Guys like Buehler, Bieber, Burnes seem like pretty good bets to get there. Somebody like Cole probably gets caught in the transition period between Verlander et al and the 5-6 inning guys but deGrom probably makes it through -- but maybe not, he's already at 1400 innings. And who knows, maybe reduced usage really will help them stay healthy for more seasons and we see guys pitching into their early 40s frequently.

Of course if SP usage keeps going down then they'll have reached a point where "starting" pitcher loses all meaning and what we'll have are guys who throw 2-3 innings per appearance and 1-inning specialists. I'm not convinced we will see that, I'm not even convinced we won't move a small bit back in the direction of starters. We're already at a point where reliever and starter ERA is about the same. If the average reliever ERA is where it is then the ERA of the average guy coming on in the 5th/6th innings must be pretty bad. Maybe it's better than the #4/5 starter the 3rd time throught but I have a hard time believing it's better than Corbin Burnes the 3rd time through. But clearly somebody (TB) is gonna push this as far as they can before giving it up.
   12. DL from MN Posted: December 20, 2021 at 03:25 PM (#6058110)
Sabathia should get in quickly but could see him waiting a year.


We should know by the time of his election whether or not he is the "last 250 win pitcher".
   13. Walt Davis Posted: December 20, 2021 at 03:35 PM (#6058113)
I'm surprised folks consider CC to be a pretty easy pick. He looks borderline even by saber standards and even moreso by more traditional standards. He's got a really nice 7-season peak (1600 IP, 122 wins, 140 ERA+) but the rest is about 2000 IP of a 4.21 ERA, 105 ERA+. He's a compiler with one CYA, 3000 Ks, 250 wins. Maybe he'll sail in as the last of the old school but I assume it will be a longer struggle than that. He'll get in, likely before Verlander et al hit the ballot -- he should have a good 5+-year run as best SP on the ballot if he needs it.
   14. Steve Balboni's Personal Trainer Posted: December 20, 2021 at 03:44 PM (#6058116)
I did a quick look among the 42 ballots submitted thus far in the Thibs Tracker, and a quick thing I immediately noticed, FWIW: Of the 13 thus far posted who have dropped Vizquel in this year's ballot, 10 of them voted for a full 10 candidates this year. I'll dig in some more, but it appears that generally, Vizquel's loss was directly some returning candidate's gain.

- Every one of the 13 voted for Ortiz
- Only 4 of those 13 voted for ARod
- Only one of them voted for Rollins
- Those were the only three first-year candidates to get a vote from these 13

In terms of the gain/loss among the 13 outside of Vizquel himself:
Rolen +3 (3 gains, no losses)
Wagner +2 (2,0)
Sheffield +1 (3 gains, 2 losses)
Helton +1 (1,0)
Abreu +1 (1,0)
Jones 0 (1,1)
Kent -1 (0,1)
Manny -1 (0,1)
Bonds -1 (0,1)
Schilling -2 (0,2)
Sosa -2 (0, 2)

This is just among the 13 voters who dropped Vizquel this year - and that's a lot of diffused action right there. This is going to be quite a set of results; not necessarily because of the final results themselves, but because of the amount of noise within the ballots that are tabulated.

I'm kind of coming around that Rolen might be the big winner this year, making a big gain to make it all but certain that he and Ortiz get in next year (if Ortiz doesn't make it in 2022, which I don't think he will).
   15. taxandbeerguy Posted: December 20, 2021 at 04:00 PM (#6058120)
With CC it's that he's got just enough of everything. 250+ wins, acknowledging how hard that is now, looks pretty good in retrospect. The Cy Young, the mid season trade to Milwaukee where he was lights-out in leading them to the playoffs. The Cy Young and that 7 year stretch where he was arguably the best pitcher in baseball (Halladay was probably better for most of that stretch and bits of Greinke, Kershaw, Verlander and King Felix too). He got the World Series win with the Yankees. His peak was from 25-31 which is right when you'd expect to be, so there's no late career surges to get him over the line. A graceful decline in his last 3-4 years (2013-15 were rough). That's plenty of narrative. By SABR metrics, he's up over 60WAR, has a peak that is very good if not outstanding. There's some back ink too for better or worse. It's all these little plusses that add up and make him appealing to many a voter. His competition will be significantly less than say Mike Mussina, who was better for longer, but may not have been quite as good at his best (2008 Milwaukee), but it also helps not being up against Maddux, Johnson, Martinez, Glavine, Smoltz, Clemens et al in terms of voting. His durability also seems to be a big plus, I can see the Buehrle voters being pulled in Sabathia's direction for similar reasons.

In my mind maybe a comparative is a slightly lesser Ted Lyons. He's in the bottom half of Hall of Famers for sure, but whatever you look at, his candidacy is strong. If the Hall was 150 players instead, CC isn't getting in. Likely neither is Ted Lyons.
   16. kcgard2 Posted: December 20, 2021 at 04:02 PM (#6058121)
Is Cole Hamels not even in the discussion here? He has 50-60 WAR depending on which flavor you like. Not close to 200 wins, I assume that's why we think he'll be completely ignored? deGrom probably isn't going to get even as close as Hamels, but admittedly the peaks are not really comparable.
   17. taxandbeerguy Posted: December 20, 2021 at 04:10 PM (#6058123)
14 - That's really interesting about Vizquel. I'd be curious to know what percentage of those 13 dropped him for a) His reprehensible and awful acts alone b) His reprehensible and awful acts in conjunction with the fact that there is a full ballot and this acts as a tiebreaker, so unless there are less than 10 candidates who the writer would vote for, Vizquel gets dropped to the very bottom of the "Would Have Voted For" and c) upon review his stats and accomplishments no longer pass muster. I'd wager something like a 60/40/0 split, but hard to say. 3 voters didn't have full ballots so would be in be in camp a) and at least one voter indicates him in the WHVF.
   18. taxandbeerguy Posted: December 20, 2021 at 04:14 PM (#6058124)
16- Hamels should be in there, in terms of hall of fame chances, but would think he ends up more like Hudson, Pettitte and Buehrle than making an impact. So he sticks around, but isn't likely to climb barring him coming back and pitching like himself from a decade ago.
   19. Infinite Yost (Voxter) Posted: December 20, 2021 at 04:18 PM (#6058128)
I'm surprised folks consider CC to be a pretty easy pick.


I feel the same way about Sabathia that I did about Smoltz (purely as a matter of prediction) -- though you look at his numbers and he seems like a hall of famer but just barely, he has a profound sense of having seemed like one, in a way that even more sabr-inclined voters might be influenced by. He has the 3000 Ks. He has the massive, unforgettable body. He has the impeccable control despite looking for all the world like he should throw 100 MPH on every pitch. He has the hardware. He was the face of two different franchises, one of them the Yankees. He had the heroic stint in Milwaukee, which I think a lot of people remember. He was a star at 20 and still a star at 37, in totally different ways. He has the playoff game with the midges all over him.

All of this is not that different to Smoltz, though of course the shapes of their careers are different. Smoltz has the same hardware, and a story that's slightly different but still compelling. I was certain that Johnno was going to make the Hall, probably in his first try, when some (some) others were skeptical. I don't know if I'm as certain that Sabathia makes it on the first go round, but the odds he misses out altogether asymptotically approach 0. He'll be in within a couple-three years, if not on the first ballot.
   20. John DiFool2 Posted: December 20, 2021 at 04:31 PM (#6058134)
I'm surprised folks consider CC to be a pretty easy pick.


I'm surprised at how well people think Utley will do. Zero counting stats/not much outside of his 6 year peak, zero Black Ink (welp aside from 1 year leading in runs, 4 in HBP), zero Gold Gloves despite a pretty historic run in the defensive metrics.* Only the easing ballot crunch will let him stay on past the 5% mark, but seriously doubt he'll ever exceed that 30% figure upthread.

[*Why did he do so poorly in GG's?]
   21. SoSH U at work Posted: December 20, 2021 at 04:39 PM (#6058136)
I think taxandbeerguy sums CC pretty well. He's just got just enough of everything to push him past that class that has just not enough (Hudson, Buehrle, previously Oswalt, soon to be Hamels). I'd guess he's in within three ballots.
   22. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: December 20, 2021 at 05:05 PM (#6058141)
I think taxandbeerguy sums CC pretty well.


Well nearly, he forgot the 3000+ K's. Striking out 3000 guys in your career is really, really, really f*cking hard to do and everyone bar the guy who asked not be elected and Clemens has been elected thus far. It's a HUGE achievement and the change in pitcher usage may not see too many more of these guys.

It really is the ultimate statement in pitcher domination. I'd elect him on that stat alone.
   23. Walt Davis Posted: December 20, 2021 at 06:14 PM (#6058147)
deGrom probably isn't going to get even as close as Hamels

As close as Hamels to what? DeGrom is gonna blow past Hamels in HoF voting. If you mean in terms of milestones, that might well be the case.

Striking out 3000 guys in your career is really, really, really f*cking hard to do

Kinda. I mean Scherzer got there in 1,000 fewer IP than CC. Cole is already halfway there, Bauer would be if he wasn't an #######. If he's healthy next year, Ray will be halfway there. And that's despite covid 2020. All three of those guys will/would have similar K totals through age 30 as Scherzer although obviously they may not get as many post-30 IP. Strasburg and Sale probably won't last long enough and Darvish is probably too old already.

10 K/9 for 15 seasons of 180 IP is 3000 Ks. Even Aaron Nola has averaged 10+ K/9.

To be clear, I think CC is going in within the first 5 years. I just don't think he's going in first ballot nor going to be all THAT close -- I'd certainly bet the under on 65%. He does tick plenty of boxes but the box-ticking pitchers with under 300 wins haven't historically had an easy time.

Utley -- yeah, who knows. The recent performance of Rolen, Helton and Walker plus what I think is the growing acceptance of Votto as a HoFer suggest Utley has a shot. An MVP (which he deserved more than his teammates) would have helped a lot. He'll also have a few years more of new voters who seem to be a bit more saber-friendly and fewer old farts. But yes, he'll be a tough sell and somebody adopting him a la Raines and Blyleven from year 1 would probably help a lot -- if he starts in the low 20s, he's probably not going to make it.

   24. Starring Bradley Scotchman as RMc Posted: December 20, 2021 at 07:03 PM (#6058151)
If Luis Garcia isn't elected in 2045, I'ma burn the place down!
   25. Sweatpants Posted: December 21, 2021 at 01:18 AM (#6058176)
He has the playoff game with the midges all over him.
That was Fausto Carmona. Sabathia started the game before that one.
[*Why did he do so poorly in GG's?]
My recollection is that, during Utley's prime, Orlando Hudson and Brandon Phillips were considered the game's best defensive 2B. For once my memory isn't failing me - those two combined for seven of eight NL Gold Gloves from 2006-2013, with Darwin Barney the lone interloper.
   26. Rally Posted: December 21, 2021 at 08:59 AM (#6058180)
I think Verlander will get to 250. We can’t be too sure on how he recovers from TJS, but if he’s able to take the mound he’ll get there, especially with the Astro offense. Just needs 2 years with 12 wins each.
   27. Rally Posted: December 21, 2021 at 09:01 AM (#6058181)
I don’t even remember which Cleveland pitcher dealt with the midges. They were all over Joba Chamberlain.
   28. TJ Posted: December 21, 2021 at 09:07 AM (#6058182)
You can only have one in the HOF. Who would you choose- Chase Utley or Jeff Kent?
   29. dark Posted: December 21, 2021 at 09:24 AM (#6058183)
Chase Utley for me.
   30. Lassus Posted: December 21, 2021 at 09:33 AM (#6058184)
Kent, because Utley fucking broke Ruben Tejada's leg, so fuck him.

I also wish I had a ballot so I could write that in the article accompanying said ballot's mail-in, and possibly on the ballot itself.
   31. TJ Posted: December 21, 2021 at 09:37 AM (#6058185)
Kent, because Utley ####### broke Ruben Tejada's leg, so #### him.

I also wish I had a ballot so I could write that in the article accompanying said ballot's mail-in, and possibly on the ballot itself.


Regardless of who you would choose, we so have to get Lassus a HOF ballot…
   32. SoSH U at work Posted: December 21, 2021 at 09:42 AM (#6058187)
I'm with Lassus. Utley was the better ballplayer, but I don't really care about his fate given that bullshit play.
   33. Ron J Posted: December 21, 2021 at 10:14 AM (#6058193)
In my opinion Utley deserves to be in the HOF because he used his money more wisely -- paying somebody to wash his truck.
   34. Howie Menckel Posted: December 21, 2021 at 10:21 AM (#6058198)
bah, Coke'd by Rally
   35. Booey Posted: December 21, 2021 at 06:06 PM (#6058275)
Utley's MLBFanCave response to Mac from Sunny's love letter alone warrants him serious HOF consideration. Hell, just print the entire response as his HOF plaque, since Chase doesn't have a lot of obvious traditional HOF numbers or accomplishments that could fill the space instead.

But yeah, that slide against Tejada was bullsh!t. A much more egregious violation of the character clause than anything Schilling, the Astros, or the 'roiders did, IMO.
   36. reech Posted: December 21, 2021 at 06:33 PM (#6058283)
I 2nd everything #35 ^ says.

   37. kcgard2 Posted: December 21, 2021 at 06:36 PM (#6058285)
Utley vs Kent is a tough call. Utley may have been more valuable, thanks to defense. But, even though Kent was a redass and annoying in his own way, Utley was just somebody it was hard to like unless you were a Phillies fan. Besides the dirty slide and other questionable plays, he was also constantly pretending to get hit by pitches, which is just annoying as hell to watch.
   38. The Duke Posted: December 21, 2021 at 09:37 PM (#6058311)
The demise of the 6-8 inning starting pitcher isn’t as clear as people make it sound. Average innings are going down but I assume that’s in the number 3-5 starting pitcher slot. There’s a lot of good numbers 1-2 throwing lots of innings

There were about 50 this year over 150 IP including: Wheeler, Buehler, wainwright, alcantara, Ray, gausman, berrios, Castillo, Morton, Urias, Cole, musgrove, Nola, Marquez, scherzer, woodruff, Burnes, fried, Anderson. We are definitely not seeing 250-300 inning seasons anymore though.

Most of those names have already done it or will continue to do it. So I’m sure there will be some studs that come out of that pack. I look at Alcantara as a possible CY candidate and HOF candidate if things go well. Cole is on his way. Buehler is possible.

I don’t think the shortened outings affect the cream of the crop as much.
   39. Booey Posted: December 22, 2021 at 01:51 PM (#6058382)
#38 - I'm not sure that's accurate. We're seeing diminished innings across the board, and there was a dramatic drop in 2021 compared to the last full season in 2019. Hopefully it's just a blip, but I wouldn't count on it. Only 4 pitchers topped 200 IP; no other full season had fewer than 10. Wheeler's 213 were the lowest to ever lead the majors in a non shortened season. Ray led the AL with just 193, again, the fewest ever for a league leader in a full season. Top ace/work horses like Scherzer and Cole had only 179 and 181 IP respectively.

Here's the average IP for the major leagues top 10:

2010 - 233.9
2011 - 238.2
2012 - 225.3
2013 - 224.0
2014 - 229.8
2015 - 223.8
2016 - 221.5
2017 - 205.8
2018 - 209.9
2019 - 210.9
2020 - n/a
2021 - 197.1

There were dramatic (and mostly permanent) drops in 2012, 2017, and then again in 2021. Even if we see a slight rebound like we did in 2018, the top guys will still be getting about 30-35 fewer innings than they did just a decade ago, and 20-25 fewer innings than they did a half decade ago.
   40. Booey Posted: December 22, 2021 at 01:59 PM (#6058386)
Last to:

300 innings - 1980 Steve Carlton
290 innings - 1985 Bert Blyleven
280 innings - 1987 Charlie Hough, Roger Clemens
270 innings - 1999 Randy Johnson
260 innings - 2003 Roy Halladay
250 innings - 2011 Justin Verlander
240 innings - 2014 David Price, Johnny Cueto
230 innings - 2016 David Price
220 innings - 2019 Justin Verlander

I think we'll still see an occasional 220 IP season, but I wouldn't bet on any of the other benchmarks.
   41. The Duke Posted: December 22, 2021 at 05:26 PM (#6058409)
I’m betting 2021 was a response to limited innings in 2020. Let’s see if the trend keeps going

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(765 - 6:35pm, Nov 26)
Last: Mefisto

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