"I thought Wathan was a back up catch, if memory serves. So I guess McRae must have been limping around or something. I guess they PR with Wathan to keep out of the DP (he's on 1b w/ one out). Hell if you want to break up the DP McRae should be the runner, right?"

Wathan was a 35 year old catcher. But only 3 years removed from a season where he stole 36 bases, still a record for a catcher I think.

Yes, that's the modern record...and it's the all-time record for a player who played at least 80% of his games at catcher. (King Kelly had 56 SBs in 1888, but played only about two-thirds of his games at C; Buck Ewing had 53 that same year, playing in just over 75% of his games behind the plate.)

If Herzog had brought in Horton, I strongly suspect Howser would have batted Jones, not Pryor. He'd already used Jones three times (2-for-3), and he never used Pryor as a PH in the post-season. Plus there's the fact (not that Dick necessarily had this at his fingertips at the time...) that Greg was a particularly poor pinch-hitter (3-for-24 lifetime).

Most SB, 75% G at catcher, since 1898

but even if Wathan is the worlds fastest catcher the comparison is to McRae. is McRae hurt? I think he only played 3 games. And is he not even able to break up the double play?

Thanks, Sunday. That explains, among other things, why I had MacRae in my head as a pinch runner. He wasn't, but they did pinch run for him. MacRae, I believe, had hurt his leg in the minor leagues, and by 1985, may have been slow. You can have Wathan come in and play 1B, hitting in MacRae's spot, without having him pinch run. - Brock

Thanks for the info, Don. Kelly was legitimately fast, and played everywhere. Ewing was legitimately fast - the fastest catcher in the game at his time. However, the game in their time did not require squatting. It did require a lot of running after WP and PB. Probably the only remembered catchers of the 20th century who were as fast as Kelly and Ewing were Bresnahan, Cochrane and Biggio, maybe Murphy, if you count him as a catcher. - Brock

has anyone done a Win Probability change comparison of the result of this call compared to the result of other famous umpiring errors?

for those who don't know, this was a Game 6 with the Cardinals leading, 3-2, in the series and ahead by a run in the game. The leadoff batter, Jorge Orta, is out at first but incorrectly called safe.

so now the Cardinals are ahead, 3-2 in the series and ahead by a run in the game - but now a runner is on first base! Holy smokes, why didn't they just stop the series right there!

the only thing memorable about this modest event is the panties-in-a-bunch reaction by Herzog and his team, and the delusion of many in Cardinals Nation to this day that this call ranks among the top 10,000 most relevant bad calls in baseball history.

Howie - One of he factors is that while the Series was 3-2 at the time, the Game score was 1-0, Cardinals. If the Cards had even had a 2-0 lead, Mike Jorgensen is playing first base. One of the bigger WPA issues is that, if Orta is called out, Whitey may then decide to put in Jorgensen, who catches Balboni's foul pop (99+%). That's a complicated WPA. - Brock

This thread has inspried me to check out Yaz's memoir from the library and examine him more closely.

I was hoping this became the OT:A55holes thread.

This thread has inspired me to check out Yaz's memoir and Red Sox Century from the library and examine him more closely.

I was hoping this became the OT:A55holes thread.

Already got that one. Check out OTP.

I kid, I kid.