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Monday, May 18, 2009
Hiestand: MLB, Fox turn back World Series clock with earlier start times
Someone has finally thought of our Fanpop-addicted children!
Major League Baseball and Fox will announce today a real TV throwback: World Series action starting before 8 p.m. ET.
That hasn’t happened, in a regularly scheduled weeknight Series game, in at least 34 years.
The long-overdue idea will start this fall on Fox as its weeknight World Series games — as well as its American League Championship Series games — will have first pitches at 7:57. Last year, on average, World Series games’ first pitches came at 8:28. In recent years, some have come as late as 8:38.
Commissioner Bud Selig and Fox Sports President Ed Goren say Game 3 of the Series, scheduled for a Saturday night, could even start a few minutes earlier (the sides continue to work out details). Postseason games on Sundays, partly because of Fox’s NFL coverage, will keep the old start times.
Selig says whether postseason start times will change for games on TBS, which this fall has the National League Championship Series, hasn’t been determined.
“I give Fox a lot of credit,” Selig says. “I’ve wanted this (for) a long time. And it’s a very significant change.”
Repoz
Posted: May 18, 2009 at 10:51 AM | 84 comment(s)
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1. TVerik - Dr. Velocity Posted: May 18, 2009 at 11:28 AM (#3182955)I agree, RMc.
Good point. For those days, then one game has to be played no later than 4 PM on a weekday and no later than 7 on a weekend.
and also, it's pretty sad that regular season football has to interfere with playoff baseball timetables.
i mean, it's not like we're trying to make way for the wnba, mls, or mll (are they still around?), and while i do understand that football is huge, this is playoff baseball. what's the pecking order of sports?
does playoff baseball really rank behind regular season football?
I think 4 PM is too early. Lot's of people are still doing outdoor activities on October weekends. 5 or 6PM would be nice. Friday and Saturday don't matter as much as Sunday, since there's no problem sleeping in.
By the ratings, easily. Depending on the specifics, it could rank below preseason football.
Yeah, b/c every city is seeing its home team, and the gambling factor is huge.
I'm a much bigger baseball fan that football fan, but if the NY Giants are playing, I'll watch that over a Cubs-Phillies playoff game.
Just go away.
You could've had it, maybe at a price, but you could've had it whenever you wanted it.
In terms of its contribution to the season, each game in the NFL is like ten in MLB - that's a pretty significant difference as well. Four straight losses in baseball happens to almost every team every year, even the very best ones - whereas four losses in a row in the NFL can pretty much kill your season.
I mean, if an NFL team goes 9-7, they're a wheezing maybe-playoff team. If a baseball team goes 90-70, they're a solid playoff entrant. If an NFL team goes 10-6, they're all right. But a 100-60 MLB team is among the best in the league. The best NFL teams in a particular year go 13-3 or 14-2 - it's completely unheard of for a baseball team to win 140 games.
*Rounded off the MLB season here*
I agree with you that the records aren't directly comparable - but one NFL game still carries much more weight on the season outcome than one MLB game does, which in turn makes the average NFL game "feel" bigger.
Pass - I don't want games airing opposite each other.
Div Series and LCS: 4pm and 7pm weekends (plus 1pm if they're played in the Eastern time zone), 4pm and 7pm weekdays.
World Series: 4pm weekends, 7pm weekdays.
F#@k football.
16. 17 if you count the Nationals.
More to the point, what percentage of the U.S. population lives in the two easternmost time zones?
(Answer: 79.9%, and 47% in the Eastern Time Zone alone)
does playoff baseball really rank behind regular season football?
You don't really want to know the answer to that, but of course it does, at least in the minds of those who make the decisions. You have to remember that Saturday football isn't just one national telecast, it's scores of local telecasts, and big city sports bars that show dozens of games at once. And of course on Sunday you're up against the NFL's Sunday ticket. With football, nearly every fan can watch his or her favorite team, whereas with baseball most of those favorite teams are already finished with their seasons.
I disagree. People (other than professional sports gamblers) bet on football because they like football, not because they like gambling.
i'm sorry, but what's the rush to have weekend playoff games start earlier than on the weekdays? it's not like the kids have to go to school on sat/sun.
Because it's nice to be able to play baseball when the sun is out and it's more than 50 degrees outside, and that can only be done on the weekends when viewers (mostly) aren't at work?
I still think the times for the weekday games should depend on where the game is being played. If these games start at 7:57 eastern time, that means if it's an all-west coast series, every game starts at 4:57 local time. Did anyone think this was bizarre during the Giants-Angels World Series, because it seems bizarre.
I agree. I've constantly read on the internet that there are millions of people who are obsessed with NFL gambling and thats the only reason they are interested or watch. I have met hundreds of sports fans, and I'd categorize one guy who fits that profile. But I do know a few guys who are big NFL fans who occasional place bets "to make things more interesting".
What's the variance in ratings on (regular-season) NFL games? It was always my understanding that the ratings stay pretty constant, regardless of the matchup, and this is because so many people have money on the games.
I refuse to believe that, unlike every other sport, the NFL is somehow special, and has lots and lots of fans that love the sport so much that they'll watch even if their favorite team isn't playing.
As usual, the answer is somewhere in the middle. Most football gamblers are fans first, but they watch more games, particularly out-of-market games because of office pools. That is true at the college and pro level. for example, Sunday night ESPN baseball will do well in local markets as will Monday Night Football. Football will do way better in the rest of the country because of the gambling aspect.
I dunno; in Texas, football is truly the secular religion, and if there is a game on, people turn it on: three games on Sunday and one on Monday night, just as regular as church on Sunday mornings and Wednesday nights. One of them is going to be the Cowboys, but the other three could be Titans-Buccaneers or Marauders-Goliaths or who cares what, and Texans will stare at them for all they're worth.
October won't be a problem in the World Series, because if it goes 7 it ends November 5th.
They like football, basically their home team, so they get involved in office pools or fantasy football, which leads them to watch 3 other games they never would have cared about if the didn't have an "interest" in the outcome or a particular player's stats.
It is not inconsistent to say that football gamblers are football fans first, but, the gambling still grossly inflates NFL ratings.
I will basically never watch Sunday or Monday night football (unless the Giants are playing), but if my starting QB or RB in fantasy is playing, I'm often up watching until mid-night to see if I won my game that week.
Thats different than gambling.
You mean, F&#K;NFL football.
Also, regarding football in Texas. The order is High School>College>NFL
How so? Fantasy is just a different form of gambling.
No.
We could quibble about the 2-3 ranking there (I think that the NFL is more popular than college ball), but no question whatsoever about #1, I agree.
I still think the times for the weekday games should depend on where the game is being played. If these games start at 7:57 eastern time, that means if it's an all-west coast series, every game starts at 4:57 local time. Did anyone think this was bizarre during the Giants-Angels World Series, because it seems bizarre.
But 5pm is the perfect time to start a game. I can't imagine finding that bizarre.
Unless you work, and plan on attending the game.
Who cares? In the unfortunate scenario where one coast is going to see only 7 innings, I'd rather see everyone able to watch the ninth inning than everyone able to watch the first.
In 2001, due to the weeklong schedule pushback caused by 9/11, a World Series game went head-to-head with a Monday Night Football game. Not just any MNF, but one where the matchup was so lame that the network decided to openly bill it as perhaps the worst matchup in MNF history (Redskins-Cowboys, at a time when neither time was very good).
Result: the lousy regular season NFL game beat the World Series in the ratings.
EDITED to add: going through the thread something like this has already been brought up and rebutted. Damned if I know whose memory is off.
It was odd. But it didn't really matter since the world ended half way through game 6.
/giants fan
The 2001 World Series did NOT have a game on Monday night.
The Cowboys and Redskins DID play a Monday Night game on 10/15/01, though. The Cowboys and Redskins were both 0-4 heading into that game. (The Redskins had been outscored 135-25 prior to that game. Ouch). So I remembered that part right.
On 10/15/01, both ALDS series had their fifth and final game: the Yanks finished their impressive comeback against the A's after losing the first two games of that series and the 116-win Mariners finally stumbled past Cleveland.
My memory obviously was a bit off, but I'm pretty sure a really meaningless NFL game still won the ratings war against two key playoff MLB contests.
A few years ago I went to a Texas HS game just outside DFW metroplex on a Friday, OU v Texas at the Cotton Bowl on Saturday and Panthers at Cowboys on a Sunday during the same weekend. The level of intensity and excitement was much stronger on Fri. and Sat. than it was at that moldy Cowboys game, and that was the closest game of the three. As a non-Texan, I felt HS>College>NFL in Texas.
EDIT: Shouldn't have stopped to look it up I guess. I have the same memory as Dag Nabbit obviously, for what that's worth.
The Cowboys atmosphere was rather NBA-like and I know it is unfair to compare it to OU/Texas, but this is the mighty, invincible NFL we're talking, America's team and it was a giant buzzkill.
If you're lucky enough to score playoff tickets, take a damn half day and shut up.
Ding ding ding.
Right -- but it was Sunday Night Football, not Monday Night Football. I seriously doubt an ESPN game outdrew a network game though.
It makes no sense to me to have people on the east coast have to miss the last few innings of a game so that people on the west coast can see the first few innings.
It is much easier to stay up late than it is to leave work early.
and I reject this conclusion. In any given season I would argue (and probably win) that Baseball has more unique visitors to a MLB game than to an NFL game. The ratings are higher because as mentioned, the games have a stronger value to the season. Football is not more popular, it's individual games are more poopular.
I agree. I probably watch 80% of NY Giants games, but that's what a 40 hour time committment over 16 weeks. There's no way I can do that for the Yankees, my wife would shoot me if I insisted on watching every night, so maybe I watch 40% of the games. But I still spend way more total hours watching the Yankees.
Instead for comparison you should look at one-game football offerings, like the nighttime games. Like, for example, during the 2008 World Series:
DAYPART: PRIMETIME MON-SUN
FROM 10/20/08 THROUGH 10/26/08
REGULAR AND SPECIAL PROGRAMS
VIEWR VIEWR
RANK 2+ 2+
(000) RTG
----- ------ ------
1 CSI 19490 6.7
2 * DANCING WITH THE STARS 18500 6.4
3 NCIS 17230 5.9
4 * DANCING W/STARS RESULTS 16350 5.6
5 * DESPERATE HOUSEWIVES 15950 5.5
*** 6 FOX WORLD SERIES GAME 4 15480 5.3
7 MENTALIST, THE 15280 5.3
8 CRIMINAL MINDS 15010 5.2
9 TWO AND A HALF MEN 14630 5.0
*** FOX WORLD SERIES GAME 1 14630 5.0
11 * GREY'S ANATOMY-THU 9PM 14450 5.0
12 CSI: NY 14390 5.0
13 CSI: MIAMI 13510 4.7
14 SURVIVOR: GABON 13310 4.6
15 OT, THE 13280 4.6
16 HOUSE 13080 4.5
17 FOX WORLD SERIES GM4-PRE 13060 4.5
18 60 MINUTES 12820 4.4
***19 FOX WORLD SERIES GAME 2 12780 4.4
20 * EXTREME MAKEOVER:HM ED-8P 12260 4.2
21 COLD CASE 11970 4.1
22 ELEVENTH HOUR 11850 4.1
23 WITHOUT A TRACE 11630 4.0
>>>24 * SAT NIGHT FOOTBALL 10370 3.6
25 GHOST WHISPERER 10140 3.5
26 WORST WEEK 9880 3.4
27 * BROTHERS & SISTERS 9860 3.4
***28 FOX WORLD SERIES GAME 3 9840 3.4
....
***85 TIL DEATH RAIN 10/25-B 3600 1.2
***86 TIL DEATH RAIN 10/25-A 3530 1.2
***87 TIL DEATH RAIN 10/25-C 3380 1.2
Monday Night Football averaged 11.9 million viewers in 2008, which would put it 22nd on the list in an average week (a little bit better than Saturday Night Football* that week). This was one of the few weeks ESPN didn't crow about their ratings, which might suggest their ratings were lower than average. Still, the MNF average outdrew only WS Game 3, which started with a 1.5-hour rain delay (and three episodes of Til Death.
Baseball ratings are fine. They're in decline because broadcast TV ratings are in decline.
EDITed to clean up the table and fix the NFL afternoon game total.
Actually, I'm super happy with my marriage. Have to say the best 4 years of my life by far.
It's just not fair to ask her to watch baseball every night for 6 straight months, when she has no interest. If she tried to watch Jane Austin movies every night for 6 months, I'd shoot her.
Maybe for some people. For me it's the opposite. And for most people I know, too. If you have a non-time clock job and a reasonable boss, knocking off a few hours early to attend a playoff game is pretty easy. I have no idea of what percentage of people that is, though.
That's if you're talking about attending the game. If you're talking about TV, it's still the same result, though. Sure, if you're out at a bar you can watch the whole game, but if you're at home, sitting on your couch or whatever, there's a good chance you'll fall asleep. Whereas for the early start, you either miss the beginning or with a Tivo you see the whole thing anyway.
Unless you're going to implement 7 PM local start times (Which I would vote for), you're going to inconvenience someone and while it's not great for those being inconvenienced, the solution is obvious.
Football does have a larger national appeal on a per game basis, and I do think people care about other teams results more in football than in baseball, but again that has to do with fantasy, football pool, and the relative importance of each game.
Defenestration. Are you just using that word very creatively?
Nah, it was just a freudian slip. "Football is a nice sport--for you to poop on!"
It fits, I'm reading and writing this on a PC.
Raise tougher children hooked on caffeine.
actually I agree with the thought process that says work with the time zones relative to the participating teams primarily. The other thing is that I doubt many games are really relavent after the 7th inning or so, if it's interesting enough the added energy from a taut game may help make it easier for them to stay up.
It is impossible for most west coast viewers to tune at 4 PM locally, whereas east coasters watching at 10 PM is completely possible.
But, as we've discussed ad nauseum, there simply isn't a solution that works for everyone. That's why I like the 7 PM local start idea. That may not be ideal for west/east coast World Series, but there is no ideal solution in that circumstance (an 8 eastern/5 pacific start is likely the best compromise there, actually). People are going to be dissatisfied, no matter what. And, once again, this is the beauty of the DVR, that we can put these problems behind us.
yet Dollhouse stays.... No accounting for taste I guess.
That's an easy one, actually.
DOLLHOUSE is an in-house FOX production, so FOX gets all the money from overseas sales, syndication, and DVD sales, plus they chopped next season's per-episode budget to about $12 and a bag of dry ice for effects.
TSCC is a WB show that FOX buys, so even if TSCC were wildly popular overseas and on DVD, FOX doesn't get that money, WB does.
I thought DOLLHOUSE was a goner, too, because of ratings, but that's before the news of the budget getting dramatically slashed down to the bone came out. Even with the wretched ratings, I can see how DOLLHOUSE could be profitable overall next season.
That and they wanted to suck up a lot to Joss Whedon.
Hadn't heard that news, but I'm kinda glad. I felt compelled to watch the SCC due to a desire to know all of the Terminator mythos, but I thought the show got pretty lame the last half of this past season. Too bad they couldn't have tied up the loose ends first.
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