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Tuesday, May 26, 2020

How Johnson, Pedro could have starred in same rotation

So it was well known that Langston was a trade candidate, with Seattle yet to enjoy a .500 season. At multiple points, it appeared the Mets would land Langston, only for Argyros to veto the deal, which supposedly would also have sent Jay Buhner to New York, and Howard Johnson, Sid Fernandez and Kevin Tapani to Seattle.

“We were about as close as you can come to making the deal on a number of occasions,” Mets vice president Joe McIlvaine said.

According to Gammons’ reporting, Argyros later killed a three-way trade that would have included Langston going to Toronto, George Bell to Atlanta and Al Leiter to Seattle. There was talk of other trade discussions as well, involving the Dodgers, Red Sox and Royals.

But in the end, it came down to New York (with a revised offer) and Montreal. The Mariners picked the latter, and after Langston turned down a last-ditch extension bid, Johnson was headed for the Pacific Northwest.

 

RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: May 26, 2020 at 07:28 PM | 10 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: expos, randy johnson

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   1. Nasty Nate Posted: May 27, 2020 at 11:48 AM (#5953808)
Another, albeit less plausible, path for getting them in the same rotation is the Red Sox trading for Johnson midway through 1998, or signing him as free agent in the ensuing offseason.
   2. DCA Posted: May 27, 2020 at 10:04 PM (#5954001)
The most plausible way to get them in the same rotation is of course the Yankees signing Pedro instead of Jaret Wright as a free agent before the 2005 season.
   3. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: May 27, 2020 at 10:34 PM (#5954006)
To get pedantic, the only season Pedro was really a star for the Expos was 1997 (219 ERA+). From ‘94-‘96 he was solidly above average (117-124 ERA+). By ‘97 Johnson had been an established star in Seattle for several years, was making over $6 million (remember when that was a lot?) at age 33, and had one year left on his contract. They traded Pedro after that season and he was only making $3.5 million, although due for a big arbitration raise. The likelihood of the Expos keeping both of them on the roster as stars would have been nil.
   4. RJ in TO Posted: May 27, 2020 at 10:38 PM (#5954007)
That Langston/Bell/Leiter deal doesn't make a lot of sense. At the time when Langston was traded, the Jays were only 18-27, and the Jays had just traded away Barfield to get Leiter a couple weeks before, so they were already a bit short on outfielders. Besides, with Stieb, Key, Cerutti, Flanagan, and Stottlemyre, there wasn't a big need in the rotation anywau.
   5. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: May 27, 2020 at 10:50 PM (#5954010)
Other rumors:

So Woody Woodward, Seattle's general manager, who had decided not to accept the New York Mets' final offer of left-handed pitcher Sid Fernandez and right-handed reliever Rick Aguilera earlier in the day, told Montreal its deal was on.


According to the source, the Dodgers started talking about two choices from Tim Belcher, Ramon Martinez, John Wetteland and Tim Leary. Then they started downgrading the possibilities until their final offer was Leary, whom the Mariners did not want, and minor league shortstop Jose Vizcano.



There were multi-team offers involving Boston (Wade Boggs to Kansas City), Kansas City (Danny Tartabull to the Mets), the Mets (Sid Fernandez and Dave West to Seattle); and more recently with Toronto and Atlanta.


LANGSTON'S BIG DEAL CONFUSION WAS HALLMARK OF NEGOTIATIONS. - Sun-Sentinel, May 27, 1989
   6. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: May 27, 2020 at 10:52 PM (#5954011)
Here is the Gammons article:

In mid-May, Woodward arranged a three-way deal with Toronto and Atlanta that would have brought Seattle four quality pitchers—Zane Smith, Tommy Greene, Al Leiter and Alex Sanchez. In return, Langston, Mariners outfielder Henry Cotto and Braves infielder Jeff Blauser would have gone to Toronto and George Bell to Atlanta.


Finally, as the strain of the daily trade rumors began to affect both Langston and the team, the choices came down to the Mets (now offering pitchers Rick Aguilera, West, Tapani and Blaine Beatty) and the Expos' three-pitcher package.
   7. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: May 27, 2020 at 11:15 PM (#5954016)
the Mets (now offering pitchers Rick Aguilera, West, Tapani
”Dammit, we gotta trade these guys to somebody for a left-handed pitcher...get me Andy MacPhail on the phone!”
   8. Nasty Nate Posted: May 28, 2020 at 10:21 AM (#5954067)
The most plausible way to get them in the same rotation is of course the Yankees signing Pedro instead of Jaret Wright as a free agent before the 2005 season.
True. Also, the Phillies could have signed Johnson instead of Jamie Moyer.

But the fun part of the exercise is getting near-peak or peak versions in the rotation at the same time. They were pretty good in 2005, I will grant you.
   9. ajnrules Posted: May 28, 2020 at 05:08 PM (#5954215)
Let's not forget that Randy Johnson was drafted in the fourth round of 1982 by the Atlanta Braves, so they could very well have a rotation with Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, and the Big Unit.

Of course it's also entirely possible that if he had stuck with the Braves he wouldn't even be the Big Unit. I'm not just talking about the mechanical changes that turned him into the dominant Hall of Famer, but he probably also wouldn't have collided with Tim Raines to give him his legendary nickname.
   10. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: May 28, 2020 at 08:55 PM (#5954260)
Let's not forget that Randy Johnson was drafted in the fourth round of 1982 by the Atlanta Braves, so they could very well have a rotation with Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, and the Big Unit.

Of course it's also entirely possible that if he had stuck with the Braves he wouldn't even be the Big Unit.
The Braves already had a Randy Johnson in 1982, so he probably would have just been that one,

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