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Friday, June 03, 2022

Philadelphia Phillies fire manager Joe Girardi

The Philadelphia Phillies have fired manager Joe Girardi, president of baseball operations Dave Dombrowski announced Friday.

The move was made with the Phillies at 22-29, having lost seven of their past nine games.

“It has been a frustrating season for us up until this point, as we feel that our club has not played up to its capabilities,” Dombrowski said in a statement. “While all of us share the responsibility for the shortcomings, I felt that a change was needed and that a new voice in the clubhouse would give us the best chance to turn things around.”

Girardi had served as Phillies manager for the past three seasons, going 132-141 as Philadelphia continues to seek its first playoff appearance since 2011.

Also dismissed Friday was coaching assistant Bobby Meacham, who had joined the team in 2020 along with Girardi.

Bench coach Rob Thomson will serve as the team’s interim manager for the rest of the season, while quality assurance coach Mike Calitri was promoted to bench coach.

RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: June 03, 2022 at 10:45 AM | 28 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: joe girardi, phillies

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   1. JRVJ Posted: June 03, 2022 at 11:50 AM (#6079734)
Had to be done.

The Phillies are a structurally flawed team, which has not been helped by Bryce Harper's throwing arm injury (which has complicated a ton of rotation issues), which added two bad defenders during the off-season (Schwarber and Castellanos) and whose big guns are largely not hitting how they were expected to hit.

But Girardi has made a ton of bad personnel decisions (mainly in the handling of the bullpen, but also in the way he's handled CF and other spots in the line up), and seems to have lost the club house.
   2. Red Menace Posted: June 03, 2022 at 01:00 PM (#6079741)
Five days after the “Joe Girardi not worried about job security” story.
   3. Howie Menckel Posted: June 03, 2022 at 01:01 PM (#6079742)
That's exactly the average shelf life of a manager after such stories, I believe.
   4. Addie Joss Posted: June 03, 2022 at 02:18 PM (#6079756)
I think Girardi is a better than average manager. But for his gutsy decision to go with a three man starting rotation of Sabathia, AJ Burnett and Pettitte in the '09 postseason, I don't think the Yankees would have won that World Series. And I thought he did a very good job of managing the Yankees' bullpen over the years - exactly what he's accused of doing poorly for the Phillies. Not exactly shocking that having the Phils' current crew made him look much worse than the Yankee years of Mariano Rivera, Andrew Miller, David Robertson and Aroldis Chapman.
   5. cHiEf iMpaCt oFfiCEr JE Posted: June 03, 2022 at 02:24 PM (#6079762)
The firing serves as a note of caution to those baseball "insiders" who reflexively revere the veteran, gray-haired skipper types.
   6. The Duke Posted: June 03, 2022 at 03:21 PM (#6079774)
The Phillies have no chance of being better without Girardi which means to me that the Owner gave the GM a choice and the GM chose, unsurprisingly , the manager.
   7. JRVJ Posted: June 03, 2022 at 03:21 PM (#6079775)
4, Having the best reliever of all time on your roster kind of helps.

And frankly, the Phillies under Girardi haven't had relievers as good as Miller, Robertson (*) and Chapman. But Girardi has certainly not managed what he has had in a way that builds up or improves the performance of the relievers he has had.



(*) Robertson was with the 2019 Phillies, under Gabe Kapler, but was injured pretty early in his first season there and was out with TJ for the 2020 season, when Girardi first took over the Phillies as manager.
   8. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 03, 2022 at 04:31 PM (#6079784)
I doubt Girardi was the Phillies problem, but as they say, you can’t fire 25 players, so this is the standard move here.
   9. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: June 03, 2022 at 05:10 PM (#6079785)
Gave Kapler did more with less, compared to Girardi. While Girardi was not the only problem, he was not any kind of solution.

Maybe if he had 4 PED users like 2009, his team might be playing better.
   10. Brian C Posted: June 03, 2022 at 07:09 PM (#6079791)
Count the ring and all, but my vague impression of his Yankees tenure was that the Yankees might have won more than 1 WS under Girardi if Girardi hadn't managed them right out of the playoffs a couple of times. There was a time when the Chicago media was convinced he'd be jumping ship for the Cubs, and I absolutely dreaded that happening. Not surprised to see him crash and burn with Philly.
   11. Hombre Brotani Posted: June 03, 2022 at 07:49 PM (#6079793)
Maybe if he had 4 PED users like 2009, his team might be playing better.
Excellent. Primey.
   12. SoSH U at work Posted: June 03, 2022 at 09:15 PM (#6079802)

Count the ring and all, but my vague impression of his Yankees tenure was that the Yankees might have won more than 1 WS under Girardi if Girardi hadn't managed them right out of the playoffs a couple of times. There was a time when the Chicago media was convinced he'd be jumping ship for the Cubs, and I absolutely dreaded that happening. Not surprised to see him crash and burn with Philly.



My impression of him as a fan of the Yankees chief rival was he had this horrible habit of getting guys to perform much better than anyone expected of them. I was delighted when he was run out of town.
   13. Brian C Posted: June 03, 2022 at 10:45 PM (#6079812)
Unfortunately for the Phillies, they agreed with you.
   14. Walt Davis Posted: June 04, 2022 at 07:39 PM (#6079884)
Is this Girardi's last managerial job? Or will Detroit or whoever give him a last go-round?
   15. Mayor Blomberg Posted: June 04, 2022 at 09:17 PM (#6079904)
57 is young not to get another offer.
   16. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 04, 2022 at 09:38 PM (#6079912)
Girardi has more World Series wins than Showalter, who has managed 5 teams, so my guess is that he can get another managerial job if he’s interested. Another analyst gig at ESPN or the MLB Network could be a stepping stone to an eventual return to the dugout.
   17. TomH Posted: June 05, 2022 at 08:20 AM (#6079948)
Someone who has followed the Phillies closely help me out here: what bad managing levers has Girardi pulled? I mean, every team thinks their manager is clueless it seems, so besides the ugly w-L record, what are the people saying that he specifically did wrong? I don't see from the year-to-date bullpen stats where he used one guy too much in key situations when he should have obviously used others (since he doesn't have a lot of great options). Has he benched people who should be in the lineup? Has his lineup construction been poor?

- I will note they are slightly above lg avg in runs scored, as they are in OPS< so they have not been unproductive in that way
- The team has been lousy in close games; 12 and 22 in games decided by 3 or fewer runs, but 10-7 in those decided by 4+. You wanna put that on the manager and not the players?

I am not trying to defend Girardi. I just don't know what the story is.
   18. dejarouehg Posted: June 05, 2022 at 09:29 AM (#6079949)
I think Cashman felt that Girardi didn't deal well with younger players (I could be wrong) and Samson thought he was insufferable, though that could be a case of the pot calling the kettle......(I like Samson. I'm curious to hear what his take on the Girardi firing was. Will have to find it on his podcast.)

I'd take Buck over Girardi any day but I think they are both very similar, controlling personalities.
   19. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: June 05, 2022 at 10:27 AM (#6079953)
I think Cashman felt that Girardi didn't deal well with younger players

I remember part of the knock on Girardi is he was too tough on Gary Sanchez. Of Course Sanchez had a 139 OPS+ under Girardi and a 100 since his firing.
   20. NaOH Posted: June 05, 2022 at 02:25 PM (#6079971)
I'd take Buck over Girardi any day but I think they are both very similar, controlling personalities.


At least we know Buck will join in a prank on his players.

I remember part of the knock on Girardi is he was too tough on Gary Sanchez.


The knock on Girardi in NY was his overall player communication. Said Hal after getting knocked out of the 2017 ALCS and then Cashman removing Girardi:

"This was not a decision we took lightly, and not a decision that had to do with two to three weeks. It had to do with two to three years, and observing things and hearing things,'' Steinbrenner said at the MLB general managers meetings. "We felt it was time to move in a different direction.

"As I told Cash, I wasn't following his recommendation: I agreed with it. He and I have had these discussions for a considerable length of time, over and over again. This isn't something we just decided we wanted to sit down and do at the end of the season. We've had a lot of discussions through the years.''

In the aftermath of Girardi's firing, Cashman cited Girardi's "communication and connectivity'' issues with players as the main reasons for the change. Steinbrenner indicated that the issues were of sufficient concern that the Yankees might have switched managers even if Girardi had led the team to a World Series victory.

"I'm sure there would have been more pressure,'' Steinbrenner said. "It would have been maybe a more difficult decision to make. But I would have made it because I felt like that was best for the organization moving forward.''
   21. Howie Menckel Posted: June 05, 2022 at 03:25 PM (#6079976)
Girardi recently diddled with his fielding planning late in consecutive games, leading to 2 outs in the 10th both times and the Phillies had to go with toothless Roman Quinn and lost (Quinn then DFA and now is a free agent). that was... bad.

iirc, in at least one case he subbed in Quinn on defense for Castellanos, I think.
BUT it was with a 1-run lead and the Phillies bullpen is a dumpster fire - and Quinn was not close to being 9th man up if it came to that. and it did. twice.

small sample size, of course, and he can't win with that motley relief crew. but Girardi was a dead man walking as of recently, so it didn't take much more for the EJECT button to be pushed.
   22. Howie Menckel Posted: June 05, 2022 at 03:59 PM (#6079981)
addendum: Girardi was insistent on playing Herrera every day in CF in spite of his all-around mediocrity at best. he clashed with the beat guys, insisting that Herrera "is not that bad." high praise indeed!

the first 3 games post-Girardi, former No. 1 overall pick Mickey Moniak - a much better defensive OF - started in CF (getting the classic Sunday afternoon off today).
   23. Walt Davis Posted: June 05, 2022 at 05:07 PM (#6079989)
Of course in his whopping 69 career PA, Moniak has a 18 OPS+ and a career 300 OBP in the minors. DRS agrees Odubel's "not that bad" out there with -1 run so far this year and +1 run last year. Now obviously with Schwarber in LF and Castellanos in RF, you want Devon White in CF but mainly what you want is a GM that doesn't saddle your team with 4 DHs. Ironically enough, the GM is the former defense-first CF Sam Fuld. (I know, DD is the PBO and actually in charge but there's no irony in that.)
   24. sunday silence (again) Posted: June 05, 2022 at 05:32 PM (#6079992)
thanks for the analysis, Howie. That gives the average fan something to go on.
   25. AndrewJ Posted: June 05, 2022 at 05:42 PM (#6079997)
Stott with a walkoff three-run HR. The Phils have scored 26 runs in Thomson's first three games as manager...
   26. Howie Menckel Posted: June 05, 2022 at 06:54 PM (#6080008)
I think Herrera does a lot of stupid things out there, at least that's the rap. is that something DRS would fully capture? I mean like senselessly throwing home to allow another runner to claim an extra base, that sort of thing.
   27. sunday silence (again) Posted: June 05, 2022 at 07:19 PM (#6080009)
The defensive systems do not seem to capture stuff like that. For infielders, most of them are counting range, and some of them have a factor for double play ability. One them I think it was DRS has recently changed over to using the statcast numbers for range. I dont think any of them are counting baserunner kills (where its not a force out) as well as throwing errors with men on base (which will kill you). We've had continuing discussions on these issues.
   28. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: June 06, 2022 at 03:24 PM (#6080240)
A shot at Girardi?

"I'm so happy for (Stott), man. What an at-bat. What a situation for him. Being able to put our trust in our young guys the last couple days, and really let them just play," he said, via the Philadelphia Inquirer. "It's been great. And it paid off today."

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