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Baseball Primer Newsblog — The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand Monday, January 17, 2022If the Blue Jays truly believe in the dynamic duo of Vladimir Guerrero Jr. and Bo Bichette, now is the time to get the deals done
RoyalsRetro (AG#1F)
Posted: January 17, 2022 at 03:15 PM | 17 comment(s)
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1. Walt Davis Posted: January 17, 2022 at 05:08 PM (#6061395)Has anybody done a study looking at the likelihood and cost differences for buyouts between super-2 and not? As the intro notes, Vlad is already looking at a virtually guaranteed $35-40 M and a good shot at $55-60 over his 4 arb years and will start getting paid this year. He doesn't have a lot of incentive to sell off his FA years cheap. I assume he'd consider giving them 2 FA years at a hefty price since that would still have him turning FA at age 29 but hard to see him going longer than that unless they're gonna Stanton/Tatis him.
So given where they are in their careers, Stanton seems the obvious comp, signed after his first arb year for 13/$325 through age 37. Vlad's two years younger which is attractive from the Jays' perspective if they can hold it to 12-13 years. But, to that point, Stanton had also been reasonably healthy, consistent and had a lot more defensive value than Vlad ... and that deal hasn't worked out so great.
So I'll guess we see one of three outcomes: a) no deal; b) 6/$110; c) 12/$300.
These and all other made-up numbers are brought to you by CohnReznick (not true).
With that said Guerrero scares me just a bit. Chubby guys on long term deals feels like a dicey proposition. Admittedly I'm a Red Sox fan so I've got PTSD (Pablo Traumatic Stress Disorder) but I can see Guerrero ballooning. To his credit he slimmed down considerably last year and is in much better shape but I'd be wary of him aging well. Of course if you hit like he does you have some room to decline and even if a deal buys out three years of FA he's still going to be 29.
Like a boss.
Depends what you mean by "discount." They're four years away from FA. I'm not talking "discount", I'm talking "sure, if the next 4 years go to plan then you can probably sign for $35 M a year ... but I'm offering to sign you for those years for $32 M a year right now, while taking on the risk you get hurt (or stop hitting)." That's not a "discount", that's "pricing risk." Some players (Ozzie Albies) are very risk averse and give the team a great deal; others would rather take their chances playing it out.
So for example, my Bichette long-term WAG is the arb years of Seager/Tatis (about $25-30 M) plus 8/$250-255. If anything, I'd guess that's high but then I think Seager is overpaid. My Vlad WAG is basically the same except, being a super-2, I've slotted him in at about $45-50 M for the arb years. The 6/$110 for Vlad is that same for the arb years plus two years at $30 M and obviously sets him up for life while still making him FA at a young age. From a strict financial standpoint -- and since it's not my life -- I'd probably advise Vlad against the 6/$110 deal since he's nearly guaranteed at least $40 over his arb years.
Seems like they're trying to make every noun into a verb, something I call "verbing". (In fact, since "verb" is a noun, "verbing" is a perfect example of itself!)
I'd feel a little better about signing Bichette for a decade, since he's been more consistent, plays SS, and doesn't have the conditioning questions. Still, though, if you let him go another year, he still has three years until free agency.
I'm surprised they'd particularly want him to wait. If he can get something like 10/$300M now, I'd be surprised if they fought him much on taking it.
I suspect these guys will both be gunning for 'why not both?,' by having opt outs included. Maybe that means that it's only 6/80 and 11/250 for Vlad, and 6/80 and 11/230 for Bichette.
Do any of the most recent batch of big contracts include opt-outs?
Spanning Multiple Seasons or entire Careers, In the Regular Season, from 1947 to 2021, age 21 or younger, Bats RH, At least 450 Plate Appearances, requiring Baserunning Runs >= -30 and Isolated Slugging % >= .145 and Plate Appearances <= 1350 and Adjusted OPS+ <= 115 and Adjusted OPS+ >= 103 and Isolated Slugging % <= .205, sorted by greatest Adjusted OPS+.
Rk Player OPS+ PA ISO Rbaser From To Age G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO GDP SB CS BA OBP SLG OPS Pos
1 Ron Santo 113 1037 .182 -0.4 1960 1961 20-21 249 925 128 251 56 8 32 127 104 121 34 2 6 .271 .343 .453 .796 *5/H
2 Willie Mays 113 716 .187 1.0 1948 1952 17-21 168 634 82 167 26 10 24 97 77 77 13 11 5 .263 .347 .450 .796 *8/79
3 Vladimir Guerrero Jr. 109 757 .173 -0.8 2019 2020 20-21 183 685 86 184 39 4 24 102 66 129 23 1 1 .269 .336 .442 .778 /5D3H
4 Cal Ripken Jr. 107 695 .198 0.4 1981 1982 20-21 183 637 91 163 32 5 28 93 47 103 20 3 3 .256 .307 .454 .761 6/5HD
5 Bob Coluccio 105 503 .187 -1.3 1973 1973 21-21 124 438 65 98 21 8 15 58 54 92 6 13 6 .224 .311 .411 .722 /978DH
6 Manny Machado 103 1266 .156 -2.4 2012 2014 19-21 289 1185 150 330 73 6 33 129 58 219 34 10 7 .279 .313 .434 .747 *5
Provided by Stathead.com: View Stathead Tool Used
Generated 1/23/2022.
Then through age 22 it looks like this with these pre sets. ( I just widened it a lot around Vlad's numbers to see who would pop out
Spanning Multiple Seasons or entire Careers, In the Regular Season, from 1947 to 2021, age 22 or younger, Bats RH, At least 1000 Plate Appearances, requiring Baserunning Runs >= -30 and Isolated Slugging % >= .190 and Plate Appearances <= 2000 and Adjusted OPS+ <= 148 and Adjusted OPS+ >= 127 and Isolated Slugging % <= .270, sorted by greatest Adjusted OPS+.
Rk Player OPS+ PA ISO Rbaser From To Age G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO GDP SB CS BA OBP SLG OPS Pos
1 Vladimir Guerrero Jr. 137 1455 .228 -2.9 2019 2021 20-22 344 1289 209 372 68 5 72 213 152 239 43 5 2 .289 .367 .517 .884 3/5DH
2 Carlos Correa 137 1573 .210 4.7 2015 2017 20-22 361 1386 210 399 83 5 66 248 168 309 34 29 8 .288 .366 .498 .863 *6/HD
3 Henry Aaron 134 1834 .211 0.7 1954 1956 20-22 428 1679 269 520 98 29 66 267 114 154 54 7 7 .310 .354 .521 .874 97/4H
4 Ronald Acuna Jr. 133 1404 .257 5.8 2018 2020 20-22 313 1219 251 342 59 6 81 194 159 371 15 61 15 .281 .371 .538 .909 78/9HD
5 Miguel Cabrera 133 1716 .223 -1.6 2003 2005 20-22 405 1530 246 459 95 6 78 290 157 357 52 6 4 .300 .366 .523 .889 79/5HD
6 Frank Robinson 132 1968 .235 8.6 1956 1958 20-22 450 1737 309 512 81 17 98 241 170 267 40 28 7 .295 .369 .530 .899 *7/835H
7 Orlando Cepeda 131 1907 .202 0.9 1958 1960 20-22 450 1777 261 549 109 11 76 297 96 275 39 53 26 .309 .347 .511 .858 *37/H5
8 Bob Horner 129 1369 .255 -1.5 1978 1980 20-22 334 1273 197 363 46 3 91 250 73 166 32 3 3 .285 .323 .541 .864 *5/3H
Provided by Stathead.com: View Stathead Tool Used
Generated 1/23/2022.
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