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Monday, September 13, 2021

Is it already time for another WEEKLY OMNICHATTER?, for September 13-16, 2021

Scoreboards for the Major Leagues and all minor leagues,
courtesy of Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee).

Hombre Brotani Posted: September 13, 2021 at 03:14 PM | 152 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: omnichatter

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   101. cardsfanboy Posted: September 15, 2021 at 09:31 PM (#6039892)
Arenado and Goldy with homeruns this inning, have to love the "new" acquisitions for the team.
   102. cardsfanboy Posted: September 15, 2021 at 09:33 PM (#6039893)
Cardinals have 11 hits tonight. Only goldy and Bader have 2... (in other words everyone on the team, including the pitcher has had one hit, with Goldy and Bader having two as the Cardinals have yet to have any substitutions this game)
   103. cardsfanboy Posted: September 15, 2021 at 09:34 PM (#6039894)
Well now they have as Andrew Miller is coming into the game in the 7th to relieve Lester.
   104. Tom Nawrocki Posted: September 15, 2021 at 09:38 PM (#6039895)
Bryce Harper beats the shift with a gorgeous bunt. Then gets thrown out stealing to end the inning.
   105. Tom Nawrocki Posted: September 15, 2021 at 09:42 PM (#6039896)
Hays' two-run homer in the bottom of the eighth puts the suck-ass Orioles on top of the Yankees, 3-2.
   106. cardsfanboy Posted: September 15, 2021 at 09:52 PM (#6039898)
NOOOOOOOTBar with a homerun stealing grab (I think) to keep the game at 8-4...
   107. cardsfanboy Posted: September 15, 2021 at 09:54 PM (#6039899)
yep... it was a homerun, it wasn't of course, changed the potential score from 8-7 by keeping it 8-4.
   108. cardsfanboy Posted: September 15, 2021 at 09:58 PM (#6039900)
Edmundo Sosa just didn't get the respect he probably deserved as a prospect, but his major league career so far has been exceptional. 290 pa and 3.0 war is pretty excellent. And the funny thing is that his war value is defensive based, and he's more than likely going to be an offensive based player going forward.... so he's actually out playing his defense while not really being as good offensively as projected.

   109. Tom Nawrocki Posted: September 15, 2021 at 10:02 PM (#6039903)
I think the umpire just ejected the Orioles ground crew.
   110. cardsfanboy Posted: September 15, 2021 at 10:06 PM (#6039904)
I will never understand the right handed shift... I'm fine with the shift against left handed hitters, but against right handers it doesn't always make sense.
   111. Tom Nawrocki Posted: September 15, 2021 at 10:22 PM (#6039906)
Phillies beat the suck-ass Cubs on a walk-off passed ball.
   112. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 15, 2021 at 10:29 PM (#6039909)
Yankees eke out a 4-3 win over the Orioles to remain tied with Toronto for the Wildcard, with Boston but .001 behind. Perhaps a team or two will pull way, but my hunch is that the 3 teams rotate through the 2 spots in a down to the wire race.
   113. Tom Nawrocki Posted: September 15, 2021 at 10:38 PM (#6039913)
The Yankees win clinches them a winning record for the 29th straight season.
   114. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: September 15, 2021 at 10:43 PM (#6039914)
The Yankees win clinches them a winning record for the 29th straight season.


Well that's great because for their long suffering fans their misery is over.
   115. cardsfanboy Posted: September 15, 2021 at 10:43 PM (#6039915)
The Yankees win clinches them a winning record for the 29th straight season.


Damnit... the Yankees are the only team more successful than the Cardinals over the past 30 seasons in the regular season (although I can see an argument for the Dodgers) Still it's interesting that the three most successful franchises over the past 30 years are biggest market, second biggest market and in theory one of the 6 smallest markets (that isn't the reality though)
   116. The Duke Posted: September 15, 2021 at 10:48 PM (#6039917)
Cards leave the remains of the Mets in a ditch on the side of the road. I did not see that coming. And they did it with their offense
   117. cardsfanboy Posted: September 15, 2021 at 10:50 PM (#6039918)
Cards leave the remains of the Mets in a ditch on the side of the road. I did not see that coming. And they did it with their offense


If you are a Mets fan, that was not a pretty game. or even watchable outside of one inning where a comeback was possible.
   118. cardsfanboy Posted: September 15, 2021 at 11:11 PM (#6039923)
Just because it's fun... Tyler O'Neil went 2 for 5 tonight, raising his war maybe another point or two... Here is a guy who is probably going to finish top ten in the NL in war and is going to finish third in the voting among his own team for mvp (or fourth as I think if someone made a vote, it would go Waino, Goldy, Arenado before O'Neil, just on the Cardinals)

And I fully get and accept the fact that he has missed playing time due to a lack of understanding his value, injuries and youth... but when he is on the field, he's absolutely the best player the team has. (position wise... I reject war's assessment of Wainwright)

   119. cardsfanboy Posted: September 15, 2021 at 11:27 PM (#6039924)
The Yankees win clinches them a winning record for the 29th straight season.


Although at least the Cardinals can claim a tie for longest streak in baseball without finishing last place...
The last time the Cardinals finished in last place was in 1990 (Whitey Herzog hand picked team) .... The Yankees also in 1990... I missed that the Dodgers finished in last place in 1992... from memory I thought that the Cardinals and the Dodgers shared a distinction of never finishing in last place since the early 1920's... I didn't remember that the Dodgers did have a "real" bad year in 1992.

Edit:(looking at the Dodgers on bb-ref... 1992 is literally the only time in the history of their franchise they finished in last place since 1905.)
   120. Howie Menckel Posted: September 15, 2021 at 11:31 PM (#6039926)
bizarre mlb.com headline:

"Red Sox maintain WC spot with extras win"

of course, they trail TOR and NYY by percentage points so they have no wild card spot - with an extra 1-1 on their record.

oh, but a playoff spot could never be decided by an uneven number of games. of course, Red Sox fans (the old ones) know this is wrong.

1972 AL East final standings

DETROIT 86-70
BOSTON 85-70

a strike or a lockout had slightly shortened the start of the season, and it was agreed to just play out what was left.

asked about the 'what might have been' aspect, Sox manager Eddie Kasko somberly responded:

"If 'ifs' and 'buts' were candy and nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas....."
   121. Howie Menckel Posted: September 15, 2021 at 11:50 PM (#6039930)
NL LEAST STANDINGS thru Wed

ATL 76-68 --- (L)

PHI 73-72 3.5 (W)
   122. cardsfanboy Posted: September 15, 2021 at 11:50 PM (#6039931)
In the Al right now, all three true contenders for the wild card control their own destiny. Add in the fact that they are in the same division and it makes it an extremely interesting race.
   123. cardsfanboy Posted: September 15, 2021 at 11:56 PM (#6039933)
NL LEAST STANDINGS thru Wed

ATL 76-68 --- (L)

PHI 73-72 3.5 (W)


With only three games remaining, the Phils are going to require help from others... that is an issue as you can see from my other posts...

If you are in complete control of your destiny, that is always hopeful, the second it disappears it requires a bit of luck. Still with just 3.5 difference it means sweep the remaining series and win one more than the Braves to take it all...there is almost no chance that one wins the division and the other the wild card so it's an all or nothing right now.
   124. stanmvp48 Posted: September 16, 2021 at 12:00 AM (#6039934)
Braves with 16 base runners and 2 runs. Seven runners in the last 4 innings without scoring.
   125. Howie Menckel Posted: September 16, 2021 at 12:16 AM (#6039936)
the second NL WILD CARD, almost thru Wed:

STL 76-69 --- (W)

SDP 74-69 1 (and leads SF 5-2 in 6th)
CIN 75-71 1.5 (L)
PHI 73-72 3 (W)

...............

AL WILD CARD thru Wed (TWO slots)

TOR 82-64 --- (W)
NYY 82-64 --- (W)

BOS 83-65 --- (W)

OAK 78-67 3.5 (W)
SEA 78-68 4 (L)
   126. TomH Posted: September 16, 2021 at 05:08 AM (#6039939)
if the season ended this morning,

- the Dodgers are at plus 244 runs for the year
- the Cardinals are at minus 5

and they would play the WC game. The Dodgers reward for their greatness is.. they get a home game in the winner-take-all match. Which I suppose is better than the 1993 Giants who won 103 games and went ... home for the winter.
   127. cardsfanboy Posted: September 16, 2021 at 09:45 AM (#6039948)
O'Neill goes 2 for 5(double, single, 2 rbi, 1 run scored) and actually lowered his war from 5.3 to 5.2. (I get it's more or less just rounding issues, just thought it was funny to see)
   128. Howie Menckel Posted: September 16, 2021 at 10:24 AM (#6039951)
so "Once Upon A Time in Queens" Part 3 last night re 1986 Mets was really good, carrying enough momentum to make Part 4 worth it.

can't honestly recommend Parts 1 and 2 for those on the fence. Amazin' that the 1973 Mets are utterly snubbed.

the dynasties of the era: the Orioles, the Reds, the A's. the Mets beat the Orioles in the '86 WS, the Reds in the '73 NLCS, and went to a close Game 7 in the '73 WS that became the second of Oakland's three straight WS titles.
   129. TomH Posted: September 16, 2021 at 10:38 AM (#6039955)
beat the O's in the SIXTY NINE WS...
   130. TomH Posted: September 16, 2021 at 10:54 AM (#6039956)
"the Yankees are the only team more successful than the Cardinals over the past 30 seasons in the regular season (although I can see an argument for the Dodgers)"

Hello? What is your metric for that claim?

The Dodgers have a higher WPCT than the Cardinals over the past 1, 2, 3... 30, 31... 40... more ... years. There is no span where STL comes out ahead.

Division Titles? Dodgers have more.
   131. cardsfanboy Posted: September 16, 2021 at 11:11 AM (#6039958)
Hello? What is your metric for that claim?


Considering that the initial comment was about the Yankees having 29 consecutive seasons over .500, the metric I was looking at was seasons over .500 over the past 30 years, the Dodgers and Cardinals both have 26. The next thing I looked at was last place standing, in which the Cardinals had zero and the Dodgers had one. Third thing I looked at was times in playoffs, where the Cardinals had 15 appearances and the Dodgers had 14. The next thing I looked at was gaps in the playoff record, where the longest time in that 30 years, the Cardinals went 4 years without a playoff appearance and the Dodgers went 7. The initial comment felt like it was about season to season consistency, and that was what I was looking at. And yes I knew that the Dodgers had a better winning percentage over that time (or at least very comparable) and I didn't even remotely consider division titles though, just like I didn't consider NL championships or World championships either.

(edit: and another thing I looked at was last time they were below .500, Cardinals in 2007, Dodgers in 2010--technically that was the first thing I looked for, but then looked at other things)
   132. TomH Posted: September 16, 2021 at 02:14 PM (#6039995)
okay, that makes sense. Altho it is also true that
- instead of "playoff appearaances" insert "division titles", and it is 8 years to 8.
- instead of "seasons over .500" insert "seasons .500 or better" and it is 27 to 26, LA.

by the way, did you check overall WPCT for other teams? I suspect the Red Sox & others are close if not above.
   133. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 16, 2021 at 04:42 PM (#6040009)
In addition to the last playoff spots, there are some interesting battles for individual honors, including the batting titles in both leagues.

American League
Guerrero .317
Gurriel .315
Brantley .315

National League
Turner .317
Soto .314
Castellanos .310

Might be one of those years where there is some controversy over who plays or sits out the last game or two. What Soto has done in the 2nd half (.361/.524/.650), with little or no lineup help since the trade deadline, is quite impressive.
   134. Tom Nawrocki Posted: September 16, 2021 at 05:38 PM (#6040014)
Soto should start talking about how the Home Run Derby helped work the kinks out of his swing.

Incidentally, this would be the first year ever where every single qualified hitter in either league batted under .320.
   135. cardsfanboy Posted: September 16, 2021 at 05:40 PM (#6040015)
by the way, did you check overall WPCT for other teams? I suspect the Red Sox & others are close if not above.


Pi is way too expensive to be useful anymore so no, but the reality is that it's really just a three team thing.... Dodgers, Cardinals and Yankees... The Red Sox have been good but massively inconsistent, same with the Giants and any other team as an option.. The Red Sox not only have 7 seasons below .500 since 1992, they have finished last place 3 times since 2014... nobody is going to list them as a contender for a consistently successful franchise over the past 30 years, when they can't even bother to show up half of the time in the most recent 7 seasons. And the Giants, arguably the most successful franchise in post season play in this century, have been at best average for the past 30 years, they win when they make the post season, they just don't make it often.
   136. cardsfanboy Posted: September 16, 2021 at 05:45 PM (#6040016)
instead of "playoff appearaances" insert "division titles", and it is 8 years to 8.


But that isn't the goal of teams, it's to make the post season every year... I know that some fundamentalist bemoan that goal, but that is the reality... if you make the post season, you have a real chance of winning the world series, if you don't... then it was a lost season.

If I'm a fan of a team... my goal as a fan is to hope to win the world series, hope to have the best record, hope to play in the post season..... honestly division titles don't even enter the thought structure... how my team gets there is not important, as long as they get there.
   137. cardsfanboy Posted: September 16, 2021 at 06:03 PM (#6040017)
by the way, did you check overall WPCT for other teams? I suspect the Red Sox & others are close if not above.



at a best guest, I'm pretty sure that over the past 30 years there are only three teams in the conversation when it comes to winning percentage overall... The Red Sox just have way too many bad years to make up for their good, and no other franchise is even in the discussion.
   138. Walt Davis Posted: September 16, 2021 at 06:43 PM (#6040023)
Ohtani missing a start with a sore arm, may not pitch again this year. (ESPN)
   139. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: September 16, 2021 at 08:13 PM (#6040029)
The Phading Phils give up 7 runs in the top of the third to the Cubs.
The Phightin’ Phils score 7 in the bottom of the fourth to tie the game.
   140. Howie Menckel Posted: September 16, 2021 at 09:14 PM (#6040033)
Orioles were down to their last strike, but a 2nd wild pitch ties it just before the K.

O's then win it in extras, for a soul-crushing NYY loss

AL WILD CARD thru Thurs (TWO slots)

TOR 82-64 ---
BOS 83-65 ---

NYY 82-65 0.5 (L)
OAK 79-67 3 (W)
SEA 78-68 4
   141. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: September 16, 2021 at 09:20 PM (#6040034)
soul-crushing NYY loss


Considering NY came back just yesterday in the 9th to beat the pesky O's, I figure turnabout is fair play.

As tall/large as the NY team is, like Boston, they just aren't an all around good baseball team.
   142. Howie Menckel Posted: September 16, 2021 at 09:52 PM (#6040041)

NL LEAST STANDINGS thru Thurs

ATL 76-68 --- PPD

PHI 74-72 3 (W) (unless they blow a 9-run lead in the 9th)

...................

second NL WILD CARD thru Thurs

STL 76-69 ---

SDP 76-70 0.5 (W)
CIN 76-71 1 (W)
PHI 74-72 2.5 (W) (unless they blow a 9-run lead in the 9th)
...............
   143. Fred Lynn Nolan Ryan Sweeney Agonistes Posted: September 17, 2021 at 02:12 AM (#6040047)
soul-crushing NYY loss

Objection: facts not in evidence.
   144. TomH Posted: September 17, 2021 at 05:44 AM (#6040049)
cfb, this is a classic bait and switch. Post 114/115 started the conversation. It was about success more than consistency. Maybe you meant "consistent" in your head, but that wasn't your claim. And if you wish to talk about playoff spots over division titles, as the goal of teams, than counting last place finishes isn't important. It can't be both ways.

"..I'm pretty sure that over the past 30 years there are only three teams in the conversation when it comes to winning percentage overall... The Red Sox just have way too many bad years to make up for their good.."
I'm now more than pretty sure. The facts as of this morning are
wins, 1982-2001
Red Sox.. 3392
Cardinals 3368
and the gap gets larger if you add in the 70s.
Have the Red Sox been as consistent? Absolutely not; a yo-yo, as you pointed out. But they have been more successful.

   145. cardsfanboy Posted: September 17, 2021 at 10:50 AM (#6040068)
The facts as of this morning are
wins, 1982-2001


I have to conclude there is a typo there. I think you meant to type 1992 - 2021 since the entire point of the comment was over the last 30 years.

And if you wish to talk about playoff spots over division titles, as the goal of teams, than counting last place finishes isn't important. It can't be both ways.


Not sure why it can't, as fans you want to have the option to root for the team as long as possible. Last place or sub .500 records usually indicate the team has no chance of competing for a post season spot, and that it becomes obvious fairly early in the season (say July or so)
   146. TomH Posted: September 17, 2021 at 02:13 PM (#6040124)
wow, I feel silly. Yes, I calculated back to 1982. Which may only SEEM 30 years ago to me, but... :)

wins, 1992-2001
Red Sox.. 2541
Cardinals 2522

peace out.
   147. salvomania Posted: September 17, 2021 at 02:51 PM (#6040133)
Let's just keep it to this century, OK? And let's assume that 2000 is the beginning of the century.

Since 2000:
Yankees_2001-1442
Cardinals_1918-1524
Dodgers_1918-1529

and way back:
Red Sox_1899-1548

But seriously, it's the Yankees, then these three, then everyone else. Over 22 years (including this year) that group of three are separated by 19 wins, and next on the list is the Braves, at 1846-1595, followed by the A's with 1844 wins, Angels (1820), and Giants (1800).

The Royals are last at 1522.
   148. Howie Menckel Posted: September 17, 2021 at 05:23 PM (#6040158)
NYY MGR Boone just suggested that German will be back in a few days and that Severino and Loiasaga have realistic shots at returning in the next 7-10 days.

meanwhile, Tiebreaker Tango

highlights:

"if, say, the Blue Jays and Yankees were the only two clubs in AL Wild Card position at season’s end and had identical records, they would not play an extra game to determine who gets home-field advantage in the Wild Card Game. It would go to the team with the better head-to-head record (in that case, Toronto)."

"If the Blue Jays, Yankees and Red Sox were all tied, with no other non-division winners in the AL ahead of them, the three teams would choose/receive A, B and C designations. Club A would host Club B. The winner of that game would be one Wild Card club, while the loser would then play Club C on the road to determine the other. The winners of the two games would face each other in the Wild Card Game.

The three designations are decided by head-to-head records. The Red Sox went 10-9 against the Blue Jays and, as of this writing, are 10-6 against the Yankees, so they would have the first pick of designation. The Blue Jays are also 10-6 against the Yanks, as of this writing, so they would pick second. The Yankees would get whichever designation is left over. The first selection comes down to a choice of playing up to two games (Club A) or taking your chances as the home team in a single elimination game (Club C)."

"Five or more teams tie for one Wild Card spot

Technically still a possibility in the NL for the second Wild Card spot. As of this writing, MLB does not yet have an official procedure in place for such an unusual -- and, yes, highly unlikely -- scenario. The Commissioner’s Office, with input from the Competition Committee, would come up with a plan if the need becomes clear in the final days of the season."
   149. cardsfanboy Posted: September 17, 2021 at 05:59 PM (#6040170)
As a Cardinal fan, all I want is a wild card game where Wainwright pitches, right now... I'll take the Cardinals offense with Wainwright pitching over anything else available. And that includes Scherzer who I consider a god right now... I just think there is a level of energy that is happening in Waino starts right now, that can't be matched.

I know it is going to suck to see a 100 win Dodgers team get eliminated by a 85 win Cardinal team in the wild card game... but I'll still have a smile on my face. :)

   150. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 17, 2021 at 07:43 PM (#6040185)
Five or more teams tie for one Wild Card spot
I hope to live long enough to see this at least once.
   151. Howie Menckel Posted: September 17, 2021 at 10:10 PM (#6040212)
the 4-teamer is less interesting than 3 or 5.
as you can guess, two "semifinals" and then the winners meet and the winner gets the wild card.
I like the 3-teamer.
   152. stanmvp48 Posted: September 17, 2021 at 11:57 PM (#6040232)
I assume that a five team tie for one spot in the NL would break the teams into a two team group and a three team group with the stated procedures for each followed by the winners of each group playing one game. Not fair but I can't think of anything else
A five team tie for both spots is possible in the AL which would not have the winners of each group playing each other

Another amusing complication: If the Braves are 1/2 game ahead of or behind the Phillies when the season ends they would have to make up the game with the Rockies that was cancelled yesterday. Depending on the outcome they could end up in a tie with Philadelphia and have a playoff to see who wins the division A slight chance that this would affect the Wild Card
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