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Tuesday, April 19, 2016

Jason Heyward blitzed with N-word taunts from Cardinals fans in return to Busch Stadium

Jason Heyward’s return to St. Louis was marred with racial slurs.

In addition to booing, ESPN crowd mics picked up multiple Cardinals fans yelling the N-word at the new Chicago Cubs right fielder, who played last season for the Redbirds.

Heyward — who signed an eight-year, $184 million contract in the offseason — spent just one year with St. Louis.

Sadly, fans who who felt slighted by his so-called betrayal, felt booing wasn’t enough to get their point across.

RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: April 19, 2016 at 10:50 AM | 100 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: cardinals, cubs, jason heyward, racism

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   1. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: April 19, 2016 at 01:10 PM (#5199742)
#bestfansinbaseball
   2. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: April 19, 2016 at 01:14 PM (#5199754)
1. I'm skeptical. Did anyone actually here this get picked up on the mics?
2. Racist bees.
   3. Spahn Insane Posted: April 19, 2016 at 01:16 PM (#5199758)
Rickey! beat me to it, natch.
   4. Man o' Schwar Posted: April 19, 2016 at 01:17 PM (#5199760)
1. I'm skeptical. Did anyone actually here this get picked up on the mics?

I'm not even a little skeptical.
   5. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: April 19, 2016 at 01:17 PM (#5199761)
Oh wow...
   6. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: April 19, 2016 at 01:18 PM (#5199763)
There are jerks everywhere.
   7. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: April 19, 2016 at 01:19 PM (#5199768)
N-word aside, I don't really get the ire of Cards fans towards Heyward. This isn't Ozzie Smith leaving St. Louis for Chicago, it was a guy who was traded there and spent one year there.
   8. Perry Posted: April 19, 2016 at 01:21 PM (#5199772)
I could believe someone would do this, because in a crowd of 40,000+ you can find all sorts of people. But as far as I know no audio has surfaced. It was reported only by a Cubs fan on a tweet that has since been taken down. And Deadspin (who would LOVE this to be true) listened to all available audio and didn't hear anything.
   9. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: April 19, 2016 at 01:22 PM (#5199774)
1. I'm skeptical. Did anyone actually here this get picked up on the mics?


According to TFA, yes. Even setting aside the issues of St. Louis itself, the entire surrounding area is basically the rural South. The odds that there are at least a handful of people who would find it acceptable to yell racial slurs at the ballpark are, let's say, decent.

EDIT: 8, TFA lists four separate tweets.
   10. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: April 19, 2016 at 01:22 PM (#5199775)
I'm not even a little skeptical.

I'm not saying it didn't happen, but the internet is sometimes not...truthful. I'd just want to see/hear the evidence first before throwing darts.

There are jerks everywhere.


Yeah, it's the reaction to those jerks I'd be interested in.
   11. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: April 19, 2016 at 01:23 PM (#5199779)
And Deadspin (who would LOVE this to be true) listened to all available audio and didn't hear anything.

Yeah, but Deadspin hates controversy.
   12. Spahn Insane Posted: April 19, 2016 at 01:24 PM (#5199781)
N-word aside, I don't really get the ire of Cards fans towards Heyward. This isn't Ozzie Smith leaving St. Louis for Chicago, it was a guy who was traded there and spent one year there.

It's almost enough to make one think many Cardinal fans have developed a strong sense of entitlement.
   13. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: April 19, 2016 at 01:26 PM (#5199783)
N-word aside, I don't really get the ire of Cards fans towards Heyward. This isn't Ozzie Smith leaving St. Louis for Chicago, it was a guy who was traded there and spent one year there.

I think it's just insecurity because the Cubs look like an oncoming freight train.
   14. Traderdave Posted: April 19, 2016 at 01:26 PM (#5199785)
If 2 out of 10,000 fans yells it, it's wrong, and if I'm a player, I probably hear it. Those guys have a lot of practice ignoring crowds but the sound of that word would cut through the fuzzy noise and be picked up by any player's ear, especially a black player.

That said, until I see otherwise, I'm guessing it's approx 2/10,000, which is hardly an indictment of fan base.
   15. Nasty Nate Posted: April 19, 2016 at 01:26 PM (#5199787)
spent just one year with St. Louis.

Sadly, fans who who felt slighted by his so-called betrayal
I tend to think the concept of betrayal in this sense concerning professional athletes is a little childish, but I try to avoid judging how fans are fans. However, if you have feelings of betrayal about a player who was only in the organization for one year, you are a goddamned idiot.
   16. Spahn Insane Posted: April 19, 2016 at 01:28 PM (#5199788)
Without further comment, a glance at bb-ref suggests that no African American players have appeared in a game for the Cardinals this year. Interesting.
   17. Spahn Insane Posted: April 19, 2016 at 01:34 PM (#5199802)
I think it's just insecurity because the Cubs look like an oncoming freight train.

That too. And don't think I'm not enjoying the hell out of that aspect of it.
   18. Spahn Insane Posted: April 19, 2016 at 01:41 PM (#5199812)
A bit off topic, but I want this preserved for posterity for as long as it lasts: As of now, the highest OPS+ on the 2016 Cubs belongs to....Jon Lester.
   19. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: April 19, 2016 at 01:46 PM (#5199823)
TFA lists four separate tweets.

In today's world, if this actually happened, I'd have to believe someone has a recording of it occurring, and Deadspin would have it posted by now.

   20. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: April 19, 2016 at 01:55 PM (#5199844)
The Kevin Costner train had no chance, though McCoy tried (quoted below). So I'll just try turning this into the Cubs thread du juor, as Spahn has generously opened the door...

Obviously the hitting is going incredibly right. Scoring on average almost 6.5 runs per game with the Cubs scoring 2 runs or less only twice so far, alas, both times were for a loss. The Cubs aren't really even doing it by relying on the long ball either as they are right in the middle grouping with 13 HR. The Cubs are walking a ton and not striking out at a very high rate nor grounding into double plays. Leading to lots of runs being scored.

"Free agent pick up" Dexter Fowler has been Ty Cobbesque out there. Though Montero has been cooling down as of late and Ross is dropping in OPS fast the Cubs have gotten very good production out of their catchers. Bryant is starting to heat up, Soler is keeping his head above water. Russell is doing enough with the bat to be useful, and Szczur is behaving like the greatest utility player of all time. Zobrist and Heyward haven't really clicked yet, though Zobrist has a pretty good OBP. Obviously this team isn't going to keep on putting up 6.5 runs per game but they definitely look like they can maintain a high 4-possibly 5 run per game pace from here on out. Obvious caveats for injuries and such.


As a team, the Cubs are hitting .248/.352/.406, last year it was .244/.321/.398, so a notable improvement. But outside of Fowler and Montero (though much less so; and Szczur in limited PA) are really hitting better than you'd expect. Rizzo's OPS+ is 105, Bryant 102, Zobrist 68, Heyward 44. Soler and Russell are at 86 and 88 respectively, which while I'd be disappointed if that's where they finished, it within the reasonable realm of possibilities. The other 4 guys should, and will come up, in some cases a lot. So I agree with the overall assessment, but it could still even be better.

The pitching has obviously been fantastic, but also includes very few appearances for anyone. The Cubs have had their pen pitch the fewest number of innings so far (though that will change, it does make it seem like the 8 man pen is really being wasted here).

Way too early to draw any conclusions, or change any opinions from the offseason, but again, it's just worth saying how much fun they are to watch.
   21. Spahn Insane Posted: April 19, 2016 at 01:58 PM (#5199852)
I was gonna say--the Cubs are scoring runs even though outside of Fowler and Montero their starting lineup hasn't done much. Fowler's going to regress of course, but they're due for a whole lot of regression to the mean in the other direction from the meat of the lineup.

Who's to say where they'd be were it not for Lester's offensive contributions! :-)
   22. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: April 19, 2016 at 01:59 PM (#5199853)
I don't think the offensive break out that people expect for Heyward is ever going to come
   23. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: April 19, 2016 at 02:00 PM (#5199856)
This is a strange day in BBTF history...obvious OTP bait getting hijacked for baseball talk.
   24. Spahn Insane Posted: April 19, 2016 at 02:02 PM (#5199859)
I will also allow that the team's 191 ERA+ probably isn't sustainable.
   25. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: April 19, 2016 at 02:03 PM (#5199862)
I'm not sure I've been to a ballgame yet where I wasn't nearby someone who was remarkably dumb, so these allegations don't seem far-fetched. In that sense, it's dumb to indict all Cardinal fans as redneck racists. After all, let's not forget that Cub fans supposedly threw similar slurs the way of Milton Bradley during his wonderful season with the Cubs.

   26. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: April 19, 2016 at 02:05 PM (#5199864)
Now, regarding the Cubs. It's been a treat to watch them get out to such a good start, especially considering the injury to Schwarber and the limited contributions from the meat of the order thus far. It's only 13 games, but I was curious to see how the Cubs would come out of the gates after an off-season with the mind-numbing amount of articles we saw about their supposed greatness.
   27. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: April 19, 2016 at 02:06 PM (#5199866)
Even setting aside the issues of St. Louis itself, the entire surrounding area is basically the rural South. The odds that there are at least a handful of people who would find it acceptable to yell racial slurs at the ballpark are, let's say, decent.


This is a fan base that had a "Darren Wilson" appreciation thing going one for a while.
   28. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: April 19, 2016 at 02:09 PM (#5199868)
I think it's just insecurity because the Cubs look like an oncoming freight train.


It's a bit of that, certainly. But it's really just ######### entitlement, or as they call it, The Cards Way. Heyward was acquired for a couple of very high end starting pitchers under contract. The assumption in Cards land was that he would obviously show up, realize the Glorious Perfection of All Things Cards, and sign a long term extension. But he didn't. He did precisely what he had indicated he was going to do for three years running; he went free agent. And then he had the audacity to sign with THE CUBS!
   29. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: April 19, 2016 at 02:13 PM (#5199875)
This is a fan base that had a "Darren Wilson" appreciation thing going one for a while.


Well, Pet Sounds is a truly great album.
   30. Zonk demands an audit of your post Posted: April 19, 2016 at 02:42 PM (#5199925)
Meh, I'm inclined to go with a few idiots can be found in every grouping of X thousand...

In point of fact, there are times when I wish CFB among others were more objectionable people so that beating the cards was more... IDK... crusaderish.

Of course, and maybe this just comes naturally with being a good team - I find myself far far less concerned about smiting the evil other teams than I do rooting for my guys. If that's the natural evolution of having a fun product to root for, all the better.
   31. esseff Posted: April 19, 2016 at 02:44 PM (#5199927)
Without further comment, a glance at bb-ref suggests that no African American players have appeared in a game for the Cardinals this year. Interesting.


That's very unlike bb-ref to miss Tommy Pham's Opening Day start.
   32. zack Posted: April 19, 2016 at 02:44 PM (#5199928)
However, if you have feelings of betrayal about a player who was only in the organization for one year, you are a goddamned idiot.

My favorite of these is when Sharks fans booed Brian Campbell every time he touched the puck after he signed a big FA deal in Chicago. Campbell was a trade deadline pick-up by the Sharks and spent all of 10 weeks there.
   33. Perry Posted: April 19, 2016 at 02:48 PM (#5199932)
Without further comment, a glance at bb-ref suggests that no African American players have appeared in a game for the Cardinals this year. Interesting.


Yeah, and without further comment, Gibson, Brock, Ozzie, and freaking Willie McGee are greeted like conquering heroes every time they appear at the ball park.
   34. . Posted: April 19, 2016 at 02:49 PM (#5199935)
Certainly possible, more evidence needed.
   35. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: April 19, 2016 at 02:58 PM (#5199948)
I don't think the offensive break out that people expect for Heyward is ever going to come

He's going to hit better than he has so far (again, 44OPS+ right now). I said nothing of a breakout. I'm ok with his career average production (though biased hope it's a little better the next couple of years in his age 26-28 seasons).
   36. Javy Joan Baez (chris h.) Posted: April 19, 2016 at 03:27 PM (#5199980)
Of course, and maybe this just comes naturally with being a good team - I find myself far far less concerned about smiting the evil other teams than I do rooting for my guys. If that's the natural evolution of having a fun product to root for, all the better.


In fairness, we're not very used to this here in Chicago.
   37. Hank Gillette Posted: April 19, 2016 at 03:44 PM (#5199994)
Rizzo's OPS+ is 105, Bryant 102, Zobrist 68, Heyward 44.


Ben Zobrist: BA .217 OBP .327 SLG .283 OPS+ 68
Daniel Murphy BA .415 OBP .500 SLG .732 OPS+ 223

It’s only April, and a very small sample size (~50 PA), but I’d guess that so far the Nationals are happy with the way things turned out at 2nd base.

They were also in the hunt for Heyward. I have little doubt that both Zobrist and Heyward will be looking a lot better by the end of the season, but still.
   38. danup Posted: April 19, 2016 at 04:00 PM (#5200011)
It would surprise me to learn that any large sporting event in America doesn't have people in attendance who are more than ready to shout racial slurs at players they don't like. If it were picked up on the mics, I really think we'd have the audio by now, but I'm sure it's the case at Busch as much as it is anywhere else. Because of that—well, I'm not sure what we're supposed to learn from this even if it is the case. That at least two Cardinals fans out of 45,000 are unapologetic racists? You probably don't need Jason Heyward to prove that, and I don't think you can use Jason Heyward to prove that St. Louis fans are exceptionally racist, any more than you could use "Pujols Mows My Lawn" shirts to prove Chicago fans were especially racist. That's a lot of work to ask an anecdote to do.

I was watching the FSM feed, so I can't speak to the racial slurs or lack thereof, but the amount of booing didn't seem unusual to me given the player-goes-to-division-rival-on-the-verge-of-a-breakout-season circumstances. The story of the Cardinals' offseason was missing on Heyward and David Price and then signing Mike Leake, who nobody is especially excited about, while watching the Cubs get clearly better and become the darlings of the national baseball conversation. People are pissy about it.
   39. SouthSideRyan Posted: April 19, 2016 at 04:36 PM (#5200045)
[31]Wiki says Pham is Vietnamese-American.
   40. Andere Richtingen Posted: April 19, 2016 at 04:45 PM (#5200054)
Zobrist's career OPS+ in April is 90 -- overall 116. 769 PAs.
Hayward's career OPS+ in April is 80 -- overall 113. 615 PAs.
   41. Spahn Insane Posted: April 19, 2016 at 04:46 PM (#5200056)
That's very unlike bb-ref to miss Tommy Pham's Opening Day start.

Is Pham African American? (I assumed from the last name he's of Vietnamese descent, at least in part.) If so, then my bad.

Edit: Coke to Ryan.
   42. Sleepy was just “inspecting the bunker”, y’all Posted: April 19, 2016 at 04:49 PM (#5200058)
[31]Wiki says Pham is Vietnamese-American.
So you're saying Cardinals fans should be wearing rice picker hats or "Horry Cow" shirts to celebrate his awesomeness?
   43. Spahn Insane Posted: April 19, 2016 at 04:57 PM (#5200065)
So you're saying Cardinals fans should be wearing rice picker hats or "Horry Cow" shirts to celebrate his awesomeness?

I don't remember the rice picker hats, but the "Horry Cow" shirts were a ####### disgrace.
   44. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: April 19, 2016 at 05:06 PM (#5200077)
Heyward will be a good player but 3 or 4 years ago, I thought he'd become the players that Trout and Harper have become. I don't think that's going to happen anymore.
   45. Andere Richtingen Posted: April 19, 2016 at 05:20 PM (#5200086)
And I am not even going to engage in the "fans of X are racist because some racist crap happened at a game" nonsense. Now, I would guess it's more likely to happen in some venues than others, but it could happen anywhere.

What I will say is that I hope the slurs came before Heyward made those two nice sliding catches, and if it did, he took some pleasure thinking "eat that, fatass cracker" to himself as he walked back to his position.
   46. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: April 19, 2016 at 05:25 PM (#5200089)
And I am not even going to engage in the "fans of X are racist because some racist crap happened at a game" nonsense. Now, I would guess it's more likely to happen in some venues than others, but it could happen anywhere.


Well yes. But that's kind of the point in pointing at STL and laughing. Because #bestfansinbaseball! #respectthegame! #playtherightway!
   47. Baseballs Most Beloved Figure Posted: April 19, 2016 at 05:31 PM (#5200093)
Even Cardinals-hating Deadspin is saying that the racial slurs did not happen, or at least weren't aired on ESPN:
http://deadspin.com/no-espn-did-not-air-cardinals-fans-yelling-racial-slur-1771860332
   48. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: April 19, 2016 at 05:35 PM (#5200099)
On topic: yeah, if Deadspin says there's nothing doing then there probably isn't... and even if there were that would be worth at best some schadenfreude about the BFIBB and not actually indicative of Cardinals fans as a whole.

Off topic, I'm in the same boat as Russlan, but I still think Heyward puts up at least one and probably more MVP quality seasons. He's only 26, and I see him pulling an Adrian Beltre 2004 at some point before he hits thirty.
   49. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: April 19, 2016 at 05:36 PM (#5200100)
Heyward will be a good player but 3 or 4 years ago, I thought he'd become the players that Trout and Harper have become. I don't think that's going to happen anymore.

Considering both are younger, no, I don't think you're going out on a limb here. I could see a fluke 30HR season while he's a Wrigley, but I don't think he'll ever be a high average hitter or consistently will hit for as much power as someone his size looks like they should. He has a very ugly stance and long swing, but I don't think the Cubs are paying for him to be anything more than he already is.
   50. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: April 19, 2016 at 05:36 PM (#5200101)
Plus, a fan of the Atlanta Braves like ol' Neckslasher should probably not get too comfortable when it comes to schadenfreude about racist fans of a baseball team.
   51. Sleepy was just “inspecting the bunker”, y’all Posted: April 19, 2016 at 05:39 PM (#5200103)
Is Pham African American? (I assumed from the last name he's of Vietnamese descent, at least in part.) If so, then my bad.

His mom is African-American and his father is Vietnamese. I learned this from 5 minutes of google stalking so it has to be true :)
   52. Perry Posted: April 19, 2016 at 05:57 PM (#5200115)
[31]Wiki says Pham is Vietnamese-American.


Yeah, but based on his photos I'll bet $100 that the "American" part is African-American. E.g., http://sportus8.com/tommy-pham.html
   53. Dag Nabbit at ExactlyAsOld.com Posted: April 19, 2016 at 06:06 PM (#5200116)
Jason Heyward said he didn't hear any racial slurs last night.
   54. Spahn Insane Posted: April 19, 2016 at 06:07 PM (#5200117)
His mom is African-American and his father is Vietnamese. I learned this from 5 minutes of google stalking so it has to be true :)

Hey, 5 minutes more than I spent, so thanks for the legwork. :)
   55. Ray (CTL) Posted: April 19, 2016 at 06:16 PM (#5200120)
1. I'm skeptical. Did anyone actually here this get picked up on the mics?


I have no idea but I'm initially skeptical as well. But sure, there can be a racist idiot or two anywhere.

But let's go at this from a different angle, to provide a baseline, since we have a lot of people here who have been to a lot of games:

How many people here have been to an MLB game, in any city, in the last, say, 20 years and have heard the N-word being shouted by any fans? And if the answer is yes, then approximately how many times over the 20 years has this happened?
   56. cHiEf iMpaCt oFfiCEr JE Posted: April 19, 2016 at 06:18 PM (#5200121)
So wait, you're saying these offensive chants didn't happen at the Flyers game?
   57. Andere Richtingen Posted: April 19, 2016 at 06:22 PM (#5200124)
Jason Heyward said he didn't hear any racial slurs last night.

Good. He heard some boos though, that's for sure.
   58. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: April 19, 2016 at 06:27 PM (#5200125)
How many people here have been to an MLB game, in any city, in the last, say, 20 years and have heard the N-word being shouted by any fans?


None that I can remember. Although there was one time a few years back that we were in the bleachers at Wrigley and some idiot (looked to be a high school, maybe college kid) was yelling stuff like "Jewboy" when Jason Marquis was pitching for the Cubs. My friend's dad politely asked the kid to knock it off, because as a Jew he found it offensive. Kid turns around and says he's also Jewish.
   59. Man o' Schwar Posted: April 19, 2016 at 06:47 PM (#5200137)
Kid turns around and says he's also Jewish.

Maybe he converted just for the slurs.

I saw a fan in St. Louis get thrown out for repeatedly shouting the N-word at a Cubs game... it would be right about 20 years ago. The fans gleefully pointed him out to the ushers, and he was quickly whisked away. No time for that nonsense. I want to say that Andre Dawson was the target, so that will give you the rough timeframe.

On the other side of the ledger, about 15 years ago I attended a pre-season football game at Candlestick between the SF 49ers and the Raiders during which SF fans vociferously and repeatedly called the Raiders players every name in the book. The N-word would have been a middle-of-the-road insult. Nothing was done, and the Raiders fans who did complain ended up getting beaten up by the 49ers fans (outnumbered about 5:1), then thrown out of the game for fighting as the crowd around me cheered. Easily the worst thing that I've witnessed in person in terms of being ashamed of my fellow humans. Had the ushers/security not showed up to stop the fight, it would not have surprised me to see one or more of the Raiders fans be beaten to death, or near-death, by drunken 49ers fans.

And, just to re-iterate, it was a pre-season game.

ETA: And apparently Dawson last played for the Cubs in 1992, which is 24 years ago. And now I feel old.
   60. Javy Joan Baez (chris h.) Posted: April 19, 2016 at 07:40 PM (#5200158)
I haven't heard anything terrible while attending a baseball game. Worst was a Cubs-Braves game in Wrigley where some idiot right behind me kept yelling, "CHIP-PAH! CHIP! CHIP! CHIP! CHIP-PAH!" at Chipper Jones. I threw him a dirty look, and he said, "It's OK; I went to high school with him. CHIP-PAH!"

Nine ############# innings of that ####.
   61. theboyqueen Posted: April 19, 2016 at 07:58 PM (#5200164)
Even setting aside the issues of St. Louis itself, the entire surrounding area is basically the rural South.


As opposed to those bastions of tolerant liberalism Boston and San Francisco?

What's worse? A few yokels yelling "n*gger" or relocating all the poor minorities from your city so hipster techies can drink their IPA (and snort their cocaine) in peace?
   62. Man o' Schwar Posted: April 19, 2016 at 07:59 PM (#5200165)
Nine ############# innings of that ####.

I went to a Yankees game about 15 years ago at the old Stadium, and sitting maybe 30 feet to my right was a girl in her early 20s with the thickest New Jersey accent I had ever encountered. And she apparently made it her goal that morning to get Derek Jeter to notice her. Because she shouted his name - "JETAH! HEY JETAH! JETAH, UP HEAH! JETAH! HEY JETAH!" - almost non-stop for the first 3 innings.

I complained to an usher, who went and talked to her. She refused to stop, and he wasn't going to make her. He said it wasn't bothering anyone else. So I left - I moved many sections away to an empty seat elsewhere, where, sadly, I could still hear her in the distance.
   63. Pujols Shot Ya Posted: April 19, 2016 at 08:07 PM (#5200169)
At PNC in the early 2000's, Edgar Reneteria came to bat and one of the yinzers sang "I don't Edgar Renteria. I ain't got no crystal ball." Everyone within earshot got a mild chuckle. Yinzers are fun people.
   64. Man o' Schwar Posted: April 19, 2016 at 08:10 PM (#5200170)
What's worse? A few yokels yelling \"######\" or relocating all the poor minorities from your city so hipster techies can drink their IPA in peace?

The first one, easily.

(source: I live in SF, and the anti-gentrification people annoy the #### out of me.)
   65. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: April 19, 2016 at 08:17 PM (#5200174)
What's worse? A few yokels yelling "n*gger" or relocating all the poor minorities from your city so hipster techies can drink their IPA (and snort their cocaine) in peace?


Hey now, no one who works around Boston can afford to live there.
   66. theboyqueen Posted: April 19, 2016 at 08:31 PM (#5200179)
The first one, easily.

(source: I live in SF, and the anti-gentrification people annoy the #### out of me.)


Right on bro. If I were Christopher Columbus those damn Indians would have pissed me off, for sure.
   67. BDC Posted: April 19, 2016 at 08:40 PM (#5200185)
Rarely hear anything offensive in Texas - fans here are polite & laid back.
   68. Tin Angel Posted: April 19, 2016 at 08:54 PM (#5200188)
Right on bro. If I were Christopher Columbus those damn Indians would have pissed me off, for sure.


Jesus Christ. You live in San Francisco right? Because if memory serves, you live in Sacramento and have mentioned numerous times how much you hate San Francisco.

Newsflash- it isn't just minorities getting evicted. It's anyone that isn't rich. And that includes middle class white people. Even some of those loathsome poor hipsters everyone loves to ##### about that like to do "crazy" things like hang out and watch baseball in their local dive bar.

And I'm not sure what your comment even means- should only Native Americans be allowed to live here now? Mexicans? My neighborhood was Irish before it was Mexican. I've lived here ten years but am poor and white- am I allowed to stay?
   69. Commissioner Bud Black Beltre Hillman Fred Posted: April 19, 2016 at 09:00 PM (#5200194)
(source: I live in SF, and the anti-gentrification people annoy the #### out of me.)
Well then when you get priced out, don't move to Oakland; I can assure you we'll be even more annoying.
   70. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: April 19, 2016 at 09:04 PM (#5200199)
Stay classy St. Louis!

But I'm skeptical also. Heyward may have heard it but is probably doing the right thing by suggesting he didn't and just moving on. If that's the case then I think that would make him the bigger man here anyway. There's no accounting for jerks anywhere. Sometimes you're best off just moving on and getting on with your life. Idiots are always going to be idiots.

I don't think the offensive break out that people expect for Heyward is ever going to come


I don't think so either. I think the Cubs overpaid as the defense will be the first thing to fade and as pointed out above he's got that looong swing which seems to be able to be exploited by decent pitching. He always seems to start slow though(maybe I'm misremembering) so things should right itself a bit. I would imagine the best comp Cub fans could hope for is a Dewey Evans career, but I don't Heyward will ever hit like Dewey did in his 30's.
   71. zzz Posted: April 19, 2016 at 09:58 PM (#5200240)
People who live in glass houses
shouldn't throw stones.
   72. McCoy Posted: April 19, 2016 at 10:05 PM (#5200247)
I don't think so either. I think the Cubs overpaid as the defense will be the first thing to fade

Nah, he'll have opted out long before that.
   73. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: April 19, 2016 at 10:20 PM (#5200265)
Nah, he'll have opted out long before that.


Oh bugger, I forgot about the Opt outs. Maybe he'll head back to St. Louis!
   74. The Yankee Clapper Posted: April 19, 2016 at 10:21 PM (#5200266)
But I'm skeptical also. Heyward may have heard it but is probably doing the right thing by suggesting he didn't and just moving on. If that's the case then I think that would make him the bigger man here anyway. There's no accounting for jerks anywhere. Sometimes you're best off just moving on and getting on with your life. Idiots are always going to be idiots.

I assume there may be at least a few people who use just about every epithet at the ballpark in conversation with those they are attending the game with, but I just don't think there are many who shout racial slurs - intended to be heard on the field. Everyone around you can record your actions and post your photo. If nothing else, such actions would be unwise. I've never witnessed anything like it, and it seems like this story should have been checked more thoroughly before being published.
   75. cardsfanboy Posted: April 19, 2016 at 10:25 PM (#5200270)

I assume there may be at least a few people who use just about every epithet at the ballpark in conversation with those they are attending the game with, but I just don't think there are many who shout racial slurs - intended to be heard on the field. Everyone around you can record your actions and post your photo. If nothing else, such actions would be unwise. I've never witnessed anything like it, and it seems like this story should have been checked more thoroughly before being published.


It's been a while, but 25-30 years ago at Busch during a game, a couple of people next to me were more than willing to throw out racial slurs and they claimed that they were making a noise that a "raccoon" made in order to antagonize Willie McGee(not sure why they had a problem with him, but he was their target of choice....they weren't from St Louis; from Tennessee, but Cardinal fans)

But I have to agree, I find it hard to think that in this day and age, that there are going to be more than a couple of people, anywhere in the U.S. that is going to be slinging out racist comments in the direction of a player, loud enough for anyone other than the immediate area to hear them. And I can't imagine there is a park in America that would allow that type of behavior to go on for more than two comments if it ever did happen.
   76. ReggieThomasLives Posted: April 19, 2016 at 10:29 PM (#5200276)
What's worse? A few yokels yelling "n*gger" or relocating all the poor minorities from your city so hipster techies can drink their IPA (and snort their cocaine) in peace?


if you are a renter, it's not really your city, is it?
   77. Perry Posted: April 19, 2016 at 11:17 PM (#5200312)
if you are a renter, it's not really your city, is it?


If you live there, work there, shop there, pay taxes there, educate your kids there, and call it home, then yes, yes it is.
   78. Traderdave Posted: April 20, 2016 at 12:21 AM (#5200322)
the anti-gentrification people annoy the #### out of me.




Cadillacs cost more than Chevys.
   79. Howie Menckel Posted: April 20, 2016 at 12:36 AM (#5200324)
"Because she shouted his name - "JETAH! HEY JETAH! JETAH, UP HEAH! JETAH! HEY JETAH!" - almost non-stop for the first 3 innings."

sounds more like Lawn Guyland, but Joisey is closer to the park
   80. theboyqueen Posted: April 20, 2016 at 12:54 AM (#5200326)
Jesus Christ. You live in San Francisco right? Because if memory serves, you live in Sacramento and have mentioned numerous times how much you hate San Francisco.

Newsflash- it isn't just minorities getting evicted. It's anyone that isn't rich. And that includes middle class white people. Even some of those loathsome poor hipsters everyone loves to ##### about that like to do "crazy" things like hang out and watch baseball in their local dive bar.

And I'm not sure what your comment even means- should only Native Americans be allowed to live here now? Mexicans? My neighborhood was Irish before it was Mexican. I've lived here ten years but am poor and white- am I allowed to stay?


Are you the kind of person who likes thinking of southern folks as racist but are bothered by "anti-gentrification" folks? Because if not, relax...I'm not talking about you at all.
   81. theboyqueen Posted: April 20, 2016 at 12:58 AM (#5200328)
Anyone remember those boycotts of California when we voted for prop 8? Yeah, me neither.
   82. Zach Posted: April 20, 2016 at 01:16 AM (#5200332)
I brought a German friend to a Giants game and spent a few innings being harassed by three drunk fans making Hitler comments. Some people are just awful.
   83. Tin Angel Posted: April 20, 2016 at 01:45 AM (#5200335)
Are you the kind of person who likes thinking of southern folks as racist but are bothered by "anti-gentrification" folks? Because if not, relax...I'm not talking about you at all.


No, I'm not- and that was a very, very poor effort. I'm lower class, white, and am on the verge of getting kicked out of my home of ten years. So why would I be "anti-gentrification?"

Nice job of avoiding all my questions though! Try again. Please, wealthy doctor who doesn't live here, enlighten me- who is allowed to live here?
   84. theboyqueen Posted: April 20, 2016 at 01:52 AM (#5200336)
What assumption do you think I made about you?
   85. theboyqueen Posted: April 20, 2016 at 01:56 AM (#5200337)
Please reread what "Man o' Schwar" said, what I said, and rethink why you took this personally at all.
   86. theboyqueen Posted: April 20, 2016 at 01:57 AM (#5200338)
I feel for you bro, I sure as #### couldn't afford to live in SF no matter how rich you assume I am. Why the #### you think I live in Sacramento? For the ####### weather?
   87. Tin Angel Posted: April 20, 2016 at 01:58 AM (#5200339)
Are you the kind of person who likes thinking of southern folks as racist but are bothered by "anti-gentrification" folks?


That sarcastic remark, that I must be a hypocritical liberal. And you still haven't answered a question.
   88. Tin Angel Posted: April 20, 2016 at 02:05 AM (#5200342)
Bro! Since you think I must be a bro since I live here (hint- I'm a 39 year old copyeditor who spends most of his free time watching baseball, reading fiction, and listening to Dylan)! Your original remark was

What's worse? A few yokels yelling "n*gger" or relocating all the poor minorities from your city so hipster techies can drink their IPA (and snort their cocaine) in peace?


Which assumes only minorities are being relocated (wrong) and it must be those crazy coke-snorting hipsters doing it. I don't even know what a "hipster" is supposed to be, but it's cute that this is still a thing. And I have this crazy idea, from walking past it every day, that the hipster techies aren't the only ones snorting coke or smoking crack.
   89. theboyqueen Posted: April 20, 2016 at 02:22 AM (#5200343)
That sarcastic remark, that I must be a hypocritical liberal.


Again, why do you think this was directed at you? I think it's pretty clear who I was talking to.
   90. theboyqueen Posted: April 20, 2016 at 02:24 AM (#5200344)
My comment to you was not sarcastic at all.
   91. theboyqueen Posted: April 20, 2016 at 02:26 AM (#5200345)
I'm a 39 year old copyeditor who spends most of his free time watching baseball, reading fiction, and listening to Dylan


You and I would get along. Seriously.
   92. cHiEf iMpaCt oFfiCEr JE Posted: April 20, 2016 at 08:11 AM (#5200357)
I brought a German friend to a Giants game and spent a few innings being harassed by three drunk fans making Hitler comments. Some people are just awful.

That sounds Fawltyesque.
   93. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: April 20, 2016 at 10:02 AM (#5200406)
I brought a German friend to a Giants game and spent a few innings being harassed by three drunk fans making Hitler comments.


You can sorta understand why.
   94. Man o' Schwar Posted: April 20, 2016 at 11:03 AM (#5200491)
Well then when you get priced out, don't move to Oakland; I can assure you we'll be even more annoying.

No worries there. And I find the Oakland people much less annoying than the SF people.

Again, why do you think this was directed at you? I think it's pretty clear who I was talking to.

You're so worked up, it's cute. Isn't there a Google bus you should be blocking right now?

No one has any less or more right to live in this city than anyone else does, despite all the hue and cry. Most of the people complaining about new groups moving in and taking their place probably did the same thing themselves 20-25 years ago. And 20-25 years from now, some other group will be moving in, and I'm sure there will be a loud and annoying group complaining how this was a better place when it was all hipster tech nerds and how we need to keep out the [insert new group here - uranium speculators, Martian refugees, string collectors, who the hell knows]. It happens in almost all cities every generation - practically every neighborhood in NYC has turned over across time. Yet in San Francisco, the entitlement runs as deep as the mighty Mississippi. How dare anyone change one thing about this fabulous city, which would be unrecognizable to people who lived here 30 years ago, who ruined it for people who lived here 50 years ago? We should really all just leave and turn it back over to the missions. That's the only fair thing to do.

Also - comparing some 20-somethings moving in and paying market price to live in a city to the massacre of an entire continent of people shows just how out of touch the anti-gentries are. This is not Columbus and the white man massacring the Indians. This is basic economics - supply and demand. People want to live here, so prices went up. If no one wanted to live here, then it would be affordable, and people wouldn't get priced out. Change the supply or change the demand. Or, I guess, whine about it.

Anyway, this is a stupid debate on SF message boards, and an even more stupid debate on a baseball message board.
   95. theboyqueen Posted: April 20, 2016 at 11:26 AM (#5200541)
My argument is not about gentrification or rights. My argument is about the hypocrisy of thinking of San Francisco as some haven of liberal tolerance, as opposed to St. Louis or whatever.
   96. Nasty Nate Posted: April 20, 2016 at 11:56 AM (#5200590)
My argument is not about gentrification or rights. My argument is about the hypocrisy of thinking of San Francisco as some haven of liberal tolerance, as opposed to St. Louis or whatever.
Well, you used gentrification as the indicator of the hypocrisy.
   97. Zach Posted: April 20, 2016 at 12:34 PM (#5200647)
You can sorta understand why.

Well, no you can't. 1945 was 71 years ago. The children of that generation had children, and those children had children, and that generation is just starting to have children of their own. The second most evil government in German history came and went since then, and I didn't hear any Honecker jokes.

People who make bigoted attacks on people are just doing it because they're jerks and they sense a weakness.
   98. theboyqueen Posted: April 20, 2016 at 01:17 PM (#5200710)
Well, you used gentrification as the indicator of the hypocrisy.


That's one half of the argument -- the other half is that Bernie Sanders probably outpolls Donald Trump 90-10 in San Francisco.

Again, I think all these boycotts of North Carolina are really interesting when I don't remember anyone threatening to boycott California after we VOTED for prop 8.
   99. Nasty Nate Posted: April 20, 2016 at 01:33 PM (#5200735)

That's one half of the argument -- the other half is that Bernie Sanders probably outpolls Donald Trump 90-10 in San Francisco.
If you are northerner criticizing the south for being racist, it's hypocritical if you vote for Bernie Sanders?

There's plenty of racism-related hypocrisy in the north, but I don't really see how moving to a city, drinking IPAs, and preferring Sanders to Trump are components of it.
   100. Cargo Cultist Posted: April 20, 2016 at 03:24 PM (#5200852)
Cardinal fans: the worst fans in baseball

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