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Baseball Primer Newsblog — The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand Sunday, August 29, 2021Javier Báez and Other Mets Players Give Fans Thumbs Down in Response to Boos
RoyalsRetro (AG#1F)
Posted: August 29, 2021 at 06:44 PM | 66 comment(s)
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1. Rowland Office Supplies Posted: August 29, 2021 at 07:36 PM (#6037016)In my case, YOU got to be better, pal.
82 OPS+ in 62 PA w 20 K and 3 BB.
mediocre Lindor joining the chorus (cue the early-season backers here who love how much "fun" he has out there, regardless of the score. might play in Peoria, doesn't play here. agree or disagree, it just doesn't.)
Mets fans are just relieved that Cohen won't double down on his Lindor folly by also signing his BFF this offseason.
and if you love a Johnny-come-lately scolding his new team's fans, you are not someone who has respect for baseball fans. guy is confused about who works for whom, and who pays whom's paychecks.
That said, being in the unusual situation of being both a Cubs & Mets fan for the nearly 50 years, I have no idea what the Mets were thinking when they traded for Javy. (And I love the guy, but feel he has been on the downside for a couple of years.)
The last thing the Mets needed was another big swing-and-miss guy.
I heard Bowden the other day on MLB radio saying that he thought Javy would get a $200M contract. I just can't see who'd be stupid enough to do that (other than Steve Cohen, who was bullied into capitulating on the Lindor contract and might be dumb enough to do it again to justify giving up Pete Crow-Armstrong.)
I'm not offended by what Javy said or what the Mets players are doing. Not because the fans aren't right to be disappointed, I just find booing to be low class AND counter-productive.
not nearly as counterproductive as these idiotic comments by Baez, obviously.
this goes back to Lindor "misreading the room" earlier in the year. they both don't get it.
you don't get to waltz into a new environment and dictate the terms of fandom. you just don't.
Mets new GM first announced the Baez trade - directed by Lindor - to Lindor in the clubhouse before a game, even before media knew it iirc. Lindor ran onto the field celebrating, no doubt further not endearing himself to McNeil and any teammates on his side.
I think this does end concerns about Cohen capitulating again. he's a fan himself - to a fault, btw.
the lack of self-awareness to by these two SSs does amaze me, I must say.
The Mets pay his paychecks ... doesn't sound like it's Javy that's confused about who works for whom.
"In a post-game press conference today, Javy Baez stated that his “thumbs down” gesture during the game was a message to fans who recently have booed him and other players for poor performance. These comments, and any gestures by him or other players with a similar intent, are totally unacceptable and will not be tolerated.
Mets fans are understandably frustrated over the team’s recent performance. The players and the organization are equally frustrated, but fans at Citi Field have every right to express their own disappointment. Booing is every fan’s right.
The Mets will not tolerate any player gesture that is unprofessional in its meaning or is directed in a negative way toward our fans. I will be meeting with our players and staff to convey this message directly.
Mets fans are loyal, passionate, knowledgeable and more than willing to express themselves. We love them for every one of these qualities."
Could someone just tell Alderson to retire already? He has been with the Mets forever for so long and hasn't built a consistently good team.
By any chance, are you one of those obnoxious jerks who harangues cashiers the grocery store about how you pay their salary so they have to do what you say?
getting back to, um, baseball, have I missed a decades-long movement of newly-arrived players obnoxiously instructing the new fan base how to behave because they are the players so the fans have to do what they say?
links to previous examples would be welcomed. otherwise, wtf
Besides which, let's be realistc - no fans or advertisers are going to give the Mets any less money if Baez gets a little attitude with the fans. If anything, it'll help generate attention - the only thing NY fans like more than winning is pretending to be outraged over every little thing, just like you're doing here and can be reliably depended to do whenever a story like this pops up.
but the Mets don't exist in a vacuum. or do they? maybe they have a money printing press?
also interesting that you sidestepped my response to your bizarre cashier tangent, as well as perhaps you are now indirectly conceding that newly-arrived players don't dictate terms to new fan bases.
if anyone is "reliable," it's someone who seems to think no player can do any wrong - or at least, not while wearing particular laundry.
it wouldn't kill you to admit how stupid Baez's comments were. probably.
I mean, they sorta do? They've been the Mets for an awful long time, and their fans haven't abandoned them yet...
9th
10th
9th
5th reached postseason
6th won pennant
13th
13th
11th
9th
8th
I mean, is there a better example in MLB of a franchise whose market size is so out of alignment with their attendance rank?
does that strike you as, oh, a potential upside if you mainly win but also take the pulse of the fan base?
if they haven't been 'abandoned,' they sure haven't maximized the revenue potential, have they?
finally, I have to wonder at this point if these comments are more to take swings at me personally than making sense of the issue, looking at your replies.
can we just stick to the topic?
I've never before heard this idea that the media deserves to know of a trade before the players on the team do. That's almost as narcissistic as a player booing his own team's fans.
I've never before heard this idea that the just-arrived player deserves to know of a trade before any of the other players on the team do.
does that work for you?
and if this is another norm I'm not familiar with, links again would be appreciated.
also, one of the reasons that you do it with a grown-up like a Votto or a Freeman or a Molina is that they - a) probably didn't dictate the trade and b) even if they did, they wouldn't be dumb enough to run out on the field to celebrate their own navel-gazing pleasure that ignores how many others on the team would react to both the deal and to the navel-gazers' grasp of a clubhouse.
Lindor is starting to give me that ARod superficial feeling (just smile and say silly ****) without any of the production.
I would say that Baez was the biggest surprise to me of the Cubs trades. Just because I don't think he's as objectively valuable as he seems valuable subjectively by fans. He's extremely fun - probably my favorite Cub to watch during this recent stretch - but a ton of that value is that he's extremely good at "the little things". But, I mean, they're called "the little things" for a reason. He's the greatest tagger that I've ever seen. But if I'm being honest, how much can a middle infielder's tagging ability really be worth?
As I said, I love Javy. And I get where he's coming from here. But he comes across as a bit of a dick here. And yeah, I would think this ends any chance that the Mets' double-play combo next season is Lindor-Baez.
How is this supposed to work, the GM is expected to gather all 25 players together and inform them of the trade all at once? This idea that there's some controversy over which player finds out about a trade first, or that any individual player can't be told until all of them are, or that the media deserves to find out first... None of it means anything. Literally no one is offended if Lindor finds out about a trade first, except media members trying create drama out of a situation where none exists.
this a fascinating and omniscient effort, I'll say that - literally - while completely ignoring how the rest of the dynamic played out.
beyond that, I think the discussion has been partly sidetracked by my presence, so I will bow out.
several posters more focused on Baez's actual comments, and in advancing the discussion, are providing what I am finding to be interesting thoughts on what is playing out here.
carry on.
Baez obviously isn't close to cut out to play in New York. It happens.
Howie has had a misplaced thing against Lindor all season. The guy had a bad start at the plate but anchored the defense and the bat has been coming around. They overpaid him but he’ll still be a great player for them as long as he stays healthy.
1. the quote is either succeed 3 out of 10 times or fail 7 out of 10 times. It is not "struggle7 out of 10 times.". Many players hit the ball hard and well more than 3 times out of 10; it is just within a fielder's range.
2. I sense Mets fans would be thrilled if Baez upped his struggling ABs to 7 out of 10 times. He is hitting nowhere near .300 for the year, and has been on-base .258 since becoming a Met (his Met tenure is smaller sample size, but that is the relevant metric, since it isn't Cub fans that are booing him).
The horror. Someone take his adult children away.
Lindor's OPS+ is 89. He got paid based on his 2018, which is now three years in the past and a pretty clear outlier. The trend line since then is straight down, which some of us noted in the offseason.
Perhaps he's completely changed in the four weeks since being traded. I had several criticisms of Javy in Chicago, but lacking in effort wasn't really one of them.
Going into a new environment where the fans don't know him, I'm not surprised he was booed. And also not surprised that he reacted poorly to being booed by the home fans for the first time in his career.
lol, there is no way this affects his chances with other teams, and if it does, they're stupid.
Translation: He doesn't give maximum effort.
That's the difference between KC, St. Louis, Minneapolis, and Chicago on the one hand ... and NYC on the other. We're about performance and production here and if you don't perform and produce, you hear about it. It's always been that way. Some people can't handle it. It's always been that way, too.
Don't like players being mean to you, then don't be mean to them.
Yes, yes, we're all familiar with the most entitled fanbase in North American sports.
That's a really bad example. You look absolutely foolish if you're not standing on 2B on the rare occasion the IF loses the pop-up. It does happen. Ask Luis Castillo and the Mets fans here.
Took the words right out of my mouth. The whining about Baez is just so thin-skinned and babyish IMO.
But it's such a vanishingly rare occurrence that it's nothing short of analytical malpractice to put much stock in it. Do you want the guy who runs like a crazy person on a pop-up where he's out 999 out of 1000 times, or do you want the guy regularly hustles his way to extra bases, scrambles his way out of rundowns and occasionally hypnotizes a rookie into forgetting the rules of baseball? I'll take the latter.
Yes.
Why not do both? What does a player gain by giving up on a play? Don't tell me going an extra 90 feet is going to "wear him out". No one's asking him to flat out sprint, just make an effort and run. 4-5 times a game, it's really not a big ask.
I think it just means managers have lost all power over their players. They get paid so much, they do what they want.
You gotta be kidding. I'm more of a mid-to-late 70s starter, and it's not even close. And, no, that's not just the kid in me talking; I've confirmed it on YouTubes and the like. And of course, the doubles/triples ratio numbers also tend to strongly confirm it.
NBA players play harder now than they did then. So do NHL players. MLB? No way.
Sure, because that's a real productive way for the players you supposedly want to perform better, actually perform better.
(Funny, I've never gone to a show where people boo. I saw Chrissy Hynde (sp?) get booed at the Nassau Coliseum because she was ######## about the people in the front taking pictures with their phone.)
Pretty Much.
Not sure what you're watching but Lindor has been a huge disappointment defensively. He constantly backs up on balls he should charge, as he did again last night, making plays unnecessarily close, if he even makes them. His angles on balls are atrocious. I'm much less concerned about his defense long-term than his hitting but there is nothing he's done to be optimistic about.
Completely agree, except for the umpire booing and the notion that just because you purchased a ticket, you have the right to be a d-b. Sorry, I just don't believe in booing anyone because they're performing poorly. If they're an a-hole, like Trevor Bauer or any of these other tough guys who like to hit women, boo away. But because a player is playing crappy, nope.
Heh.
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