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Wednesday, May 31, 2023

Jays pitcher Anthony Bass sorry for posting video endorsing anti-LGBTQ boycotts

Toronto Blue Jays pitcher Anthony Bass shared a post on his social media which promoted anti-LGBTQ campaigns, which targeted boycotting Target and Bud Light because of those companies associated with the promotion of Pride campaigns.

Bass took to Instagram stories and shared a video that called on Christians to stop patronizing companies in the United States.

Earlier this month, Target announced it would be removing some of its LGBTQ2S+ merchandise nationwide and moving its Pride merchandise to the back of some southern U.S. stores after receiving backlash from some customers.

The original video posted took directed aim at those companies, saying “Here’s the reason biblically why I believe Christians have got to be boycotting Target, Bud Light, and any other corporation that’s pushing the things they’re pushing. This is evil, this is demonic, we won’t stand for it, we’re not going to go to the stores anymore and we’re not going to give you our money.”

Bass later apologized Tuesday for the post before the Blue Jays contest against Milwaukee Brewers. Bass also did not take questions from the media.

“I’ll make this quick,” Bass said. “I recognize yesterday that I made a post that was hurtful to the Pride community, which includes friends of mine and close family members of mine, and I am truly sorry for that. I just spoke with my teammates and shared with them my actions yesterday. I apologized (to) them and, as of right now, I am using the Blue Jays’ resources to better educate myself to make better decisions moving forward. The ballpark is for everybody. We include all fans at the ballpark and we want to welcome everybody.”

RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: May 31, 2023 at 02:01 PM | 464 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: anthony bass, lgbtq

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   201. Booey Posted: June 11, 2023 at 03:33 PM (#6132377)
Flip
   202. Captain Joe Bivens, Pointless and Wonderful Posted: June 11, 2023 at 05:38 PM (#6132399)
Hijacking the discussion back to the OT (original topic), I bet Bass is REALLY sorry now.
   203. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 12, 2023 at 08:01 AM (#6132435)
As would be expected, the HRC whatabouts are the most prominent defense*. I feel like the differences are adequately laid out above, but that said? While I don't agree, I do respect the opinions of a few GOP/conservatives who make the argument *both* should be charged (but, they generally do lay out the degree/seriousness of the charges). Of course, some of these people - whose only GOP/conservative apostasy is being "nevertrumpers" - would be dismissed out of hand. However, a few Vichy sorts have said the same thing (Sean Trende, even Rich Lowry and Andrew McCarthy). I suppose that people will complain that they are supposedly "not conservatives/GOP", but in addition to Turley**, Alan Dershowitz has also characterized the indictment as pretty damning. Bill Barr - what is he? NeverTrumper? Vichy? Turncoat? - has likewise (even before the indictment, but even moreso now) characterized them similarly.

One of the sadder trends over the past 35 years** has been the constant ratcheting / dumbing down of the word "conservative". We're at a point now where the species is virtually extinct, having been hijacked by nihilists like Trump and virtual fascists like DeSantis.

Of all the epithets in the realm of politics, has any been more corrosively effective than "RINO"? An entire party is now cowering in fear of being labeled with that word.

** Roughly since the rise of Limbaugh and nationally syndicated right wing talk radio. Prior to Rush, the Bob Grants of the world were mostly a local or regional phenomenon.
   204. Captain Joe Bivens, Pointless and Wonderful Posted: June 12, 2023 at 08:43 AM (#6132438)
Limbaugh got the Presidential Medal of Freedom as thanks for being the party's dancing monkey for all those years, and/but if he hadn't been a dancing monkey for Trump, I don't think Trump would have agreed to present the award. It always helps to kiss the ass of the megalomaniac in chief.
   205. a brief article regarding 57i66135 Posted: June 12, 2023 at 09:41 AM (#6132445)
Now that the same investigation has resulted in an indictment against Trump, Judge Cannon’s prior, fundamentally erroneous approach casts a shadow over the proceedings. Because her earlier handling of this case went well outside the judicial norm and was roundly criticized by the Court of Appeals, reasonable observers of this case could question her impartiality. Federal law has a way to deal with this challenge: under 28 U.S.C. § 455(a), a judge “shall disqualify himself [or herself] in any proceeding in which his [or her] impartiality might reasonably be questioned.” Judge Cannon’s situation clearly fits that test, and she is obligated to recuse herself in Trump’s case.
[...]
The judicial recusal rule is about preserving the public’s confidence in the judicial system; it does not require a showing of actual bias. Rather, as the Supreme Court has explained, it simply asks whether “an objective observer” in the public “would have questioned [the judge’s] impartiality.” That is clearly the case with Judge Cannon. It is irrelevant whether a judge subjectively believes herself to be impartial. Because the statute aims at ensuring both justice and “the appearance of justice,” a federal judge must recuse if facts connected to the judge’s actions in the case would cause an objective observer to doubt the fairness of the proceedings.

Judge Cannon’s other statements and actions in the prior proceedings made clear her view that Trump is entitled to differential treatment than any other criminal defendant. She wrote that “[a]s a function of Plaintiff’s former position as President of the United States, the stigma associated with the subject seizure is in a league of its own.” She reiterated this position in denying the government’s motion for a partial stay of her order pending appeal,
[...]
Judge Cannon has issued a repeated series of decisions that were harshly criticized by the appellate authorities as far outside the law. That is a pattern that leads to the ineluctable appearance of bias.
Under binding 11th Circuit precedents a case should be reassigned to a different judge if, among other reasons, the original judge would have “difficulty” setting aside her previous views and findings and reassignment would not result in a waste of judicial resources. Those factors clearly weigh in favor of reassignment here, due to the difficulties that Judge Cannon will likely face in diverging from her previous, unorthodox, and wrongful rulings benefitting Trump.

   206. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: June 12, 2023 at 07:40 PM (#6132524)
This is resistance porn. Cannon is not required to recuse herself, and I doubt she will do so.
   207. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 12, 2023 at 10:12 PM (#6132546)
Virtually no one with any subject matter expertise expects the Justice Department to even make a recusal request.
   208. Ron J Posted: June 12, 2023 at 11:09 PM (#6132570)
#206 I doubt the prosecution will even make the request.

And as long as we're in the realm of the guessing, Cannon was rather embarrassingly spanked by the appeals courts. It's certainly possible she might have learned a lesson.
   209. Captain Joe Bivens, Pointless and Wonderful Posted: June 13, 2023 at 08:32 AM (#6132603)
If the fix is in and stays in, it helps him stay out of prison but doesn't help him win the general election. That's my guess.
   210. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: June 13, 2023 at 10:42 AM (#6132618)
Speaking of Bass, this story got passed around yesterday (I heard it on Erick Erickson's radio show), and was bought hook, line, and sinker by many. Who knew the National Review was capable of such a troll job
   211. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: June 13, 2023 at 12:04 PM (#6132637)
Rich Lowry is no George Plimpton, that’s for sure.
   212. Zonk Doesn't Get What You See in the Gameshow Host Posted: June 13, 2023 at 12:51 PM (#6132645)
Rich Lowry isn't much of anything.

I had to laugh at something I saw from him last week when the indictment dropped -

The bumbling incompetence, amateurish scheming, and dishonesty set out in the indictment are something to behold—Trump’s Republican opponents should, when the time is right, make the argument that this is what a second term would look like


It's such peak, perfect Vichy... when the time is right

The complete shedding of any hint of principle mattering? Check.
Paralyzing fear of losing the majority of their voting base? Check.
Pathological determination to avoid the slightest hint of "those people I hate might be right about something"? Check.

It *will* never be the right time for such folks, including Some Here.

Kristol, Romney, Cheney, Christie, Sykes, Jonah Goldberg, David French, Jeff Flake, John Bolton, Richard Armitage, Denver Riggleman, Peggy Noonan, Kelly Ayotte, Joe Walsh, Mark Sanford, John Kasich, McCains, etc...

It doesn't matter when, it doesn't matter how, it doesn't what your credentials were previously. Go against Dear Leader? The Cult will eject you. Full stop.

   213. glitch Posted: June 13, 2023 at 04:57 PM (#6132666)
.
   214. cHiEf iMpaCt oFfiCEr JE Posted: June 13, 2023 at 05:40 PM (#6132676)
It's such peak, perfect Vichy... when the time is right

The complete shedding of any hint of principle mattering? Check.
Paralyzing fear of losing the majority of their voting base? Check.
Pathological determination to avoid the slightest hint of "those people I hate might be right about something"? Check.

It *will* never be the right time for such folks, including Some Here.

Kristol, Romney, Cheney, Christie, Sykes, Jonah Goldberg, David French, Jeff Flake, John Bolton, Richard Armitage, Denver Riggleman, Peggy Noonan, Kelly Ayotte, Joe Walsh, Mark Sanford, John Kasich, McCains, etc...

It doesn't matter when, it doesn't matter how, it doesn't what your credentials were previously. Go against Dear Leader? The Cult will eject you. Full stop.
Son, and I'm just going to tell you this one time. You want to keep working here, stay off the drugs.
   215. Srul Itza Posted: June 13, 2023 at 06:27 PM (#6132682)
Instance b. was at Bedminster. It's outlined at the bottom of page 16. In this case, the timing/context *seems* to imply it's about Afghanistan. This one was apparently from witness statements.


Iran, actually, I believe
   216. a brief article regarding 57i66135 Posted: June 13, 2023 at 06:38 PM (#6132684)
I asked Harrison Ford how ultimate Nazi puncher Indiana Jones would feel about the debate over punching Nazis in real life today.

“He’d push 'em out of the way to get in the first punch. As well he should." pic.twitter.com/rg1L2aFrpi

— Kevin Polowy (@djkevlar) June 13, 2023
   217. Srul Itza Posted: June 13, 2023 at 07:28 PM (#6132690)
I like Peter Zeihan's take:

Trump will not pull out, even if he is convicted and sentenced. My understanding (correct me if I'm wrong) is that being tried and convicted does not disqualify him from running and even being elected. It would make him want it even more, so he can pardon himself. And he will continue to get a plurality of the primary vote, because the members of his cult of personality will never abandon him, no matter what, which in this splintered field probably guarantees him the nomination because the GOP, unlike the Dems, do not award delegates proportional to vote. But the General Election is another matter, since a sizable number of moderates and independents are likely to be turned off by the prospect of the Commander in Chief being the Convict in Chief.


As to Cannon my personal take is she is never going to recuse herself, because that would be an admission of bias, which she won't want to make, and the 11th won't and probably can't do anything about it. She can push things in Trump's favor without any ruling being egregious or reversible. The biggest thing would be to push the trial off until after the election. She can grant all matter of continuance, and I don't think it is even appealable, but I don't practice criminal law, so I am not sure.
   218. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 13, 2023 at 07:50 PM (#6132694)
Trying to force out a randomly assigned judge in hopes of replacing her with someone perceived as more favorable to the prosecution isn’t a good look. I very much doubt the Justice Department will even file a recusal motion, which should be the end of the matter, but won’t be.
   219. Zonk Doesn't Get What You See in the Gameshow Host Posted: June 13, 2023 at 09:50 PM (#6132709)
Son, and I'm just going to tell you this one time. You want to keep working here, stay off the drugs.


Sorry, Juannity - I thought I was transparent enough to make it clear that you are a prototypical example of what I’m talking about - the slavish, cowardly, opportunistic, shitweasely jellyfish - but looking it up, I see that I left Paul Ryan off my list. My apologies.

Here’s where you should probably whatabout some series of tankies like Glenn Greenwald, Tim Pool, Michael Traecy or whatever other nihilistic conspiracy theorist you used to claim were representative of your paranoid delusions about your enemies but you now suddenly count as fellow travelers.

   220. Lowry Seasoning Salt Posted: June 13, 2023 at 10:02 PM (#6132714)
Who knew the National Review was capable of such a troll job

You're talking about a media outlet that decided to start a sports blog and hired JE.
   221. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 14, 2023 at 07:44 AM (#6132742)
Kristol, Romney, Cheney, Christie, Sykes, Jonah Goldberg, David French, Jeff Flake, John Bolton, Richard Armitage, Denver Riggleman, Peggy Noonan, Kelly Ayotte, Joe Walsh, Mark Sanford, John Kasich, McCains, etc...

It doesn't matter when, it doesn't matter how, it doesn't what your credentials were previously. Go against Dear Leader? The Cult will eject you. Full stop.


None of the above particularly surprised me when they jumped ship. After all, in the past they've all shown at least an occasional display of principle.

But I'm glad I was sitting down when the Whatabouts-in-Chief Jonathan Turley and Alan Dershowitz said that this time Trump had gone too far. You could've knocked me over with a Martha's Vineyard cocktail party invitation.
   222. Zonk Doesn't Get What You See in the Gameshow Host Posted: June 14, 2023 at 08:10 AM (#6132746)
217/Srul-

Eugene Debs, Lyndon LaRouche, and Joe Exotic all ran for POTUS from prison…. Well, “is running” in the case of Joe Exotic. Multiply LaRouche times Exotic and you probably end up with Trump.

   223. cHiEf iMpaCt oFfiCEr JE Posted: June 14, 2023 at 09:25 AM (#6132750)
But I'm glad I was sitting down when the Whatabouts-in-Chief Jonathan Turley and Alan Dershowitz said that this time Trump had gone too far. You could've knocked me over with a Martha's Vineyard cocktail party invitation.
You're *really* not making the point you think you're making, Andy.

For example, Goldberg and Hayes both left Fox in a huff, citing "principles" over Carlson downplaying J6 (which reeked of performative BS, as their contracts were almost certainly not being renewed), only to move to CNN and NBC respectively, the resistance networks that for several years had pimped the Russia collusion hoax, going so far as to hire principals McCabe, Clapper, Brennan, Lisa Page, and Weissmann.
   224. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 14, 2023 at 09:37 AM (#6132751)
Considering that the last 500 times that Derley and Turshowitz have weighed in on Trump's problems and found a way to spin it against his accusers, I think my shock was entirely justified and shared by many. Better late than never, although I'm sure that they'll quickly revert to type as the trial continues.

Now if Greenwald and Assange turn against Trump, then I'll *really* be reaching for a stiff drink. After that there can only be Putin himself.
   225. cHiEf iMpaCt oFfiCEr JE Posted: June 14, 2023 at 10:00 AM (#6132752)
Considering that the last 500 times that Derley and Turshowitz have weighed in on Trump's problems and found a way to spin it against his accusers, I think my shock was entirely justified and shared by many. Better late than never, although I'm sure that they'll quickly revert to type as the trial continues.
Yes, it's almost as if they truly do call balls and strikes instead of donning one team's uni or the other...

EDIT: By the way, Dershowitz's WSJ op-ed still includes this note of caution:
When an incumbent administration prosecutes the leading candidate against the president, it should have a case that is so compelling that it attracts the kind of bipartisan support that forced Nixon to resign.
   226. Zonk Doesn't Get What You See in the Gameshow Host Posted: June 14, 2023 at 10:19 AM (#6132754)
Cults are not known for their ability to judge Dear Leaders
   227. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: June 14, 2023 at 10:20 AM (#6132755)
When an incumbent administration prosecutes the leading candidate against the president, it should have a case that is so compelling that it attracts the kind of bipartisan support that forced Nixon to resign.
Well, Bill Barr, Andy McCarthy, Ed Whelan, Chris Christie, George Conway…
   228. Zonk Doesn't Get What You See in the Gameshow Host Posted: June 14, 2023 at 10:30 AM (#6132757)
Bipartisan has been redefined to exclude everyone not on the side of Dear Leader… doesn’t matter if you were his AG, the previous GOP Speaker of the House, or the previous GOP nominee for POTUS. Hell, even his own VP - basically running under the banner of No, Let’s Not Hang Mike Pence - doesn’t count.

Like I said, doesn’t matter. No amount of credentials or history “counts”.
   229. cHiEf iMpaCt oFfiCEr JE Posted: June 14, 2023 at 10:38 AM (#6132759)
Well, Bill Barr, Andy McCarthy, Ed Whelan, Chris Christie, George Conway...
Groucho Marx, Milton Berle, Rodney Dangerfield, Adam Sandler, David Nieporent...

In any event, I'm pretty sure all of the above, except maybe Clown Conway, have qualified their comments with some variation of "if true."
   230. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 14, 2023 at 10:50 AM (#6132761)
In any event, I'm pretty sure all of the above, except maybe Clown Conway, have qualified their comments with some variation of "if true."

So what will you be saying, "if true" leads to a conviction? And what leads you to believe that the charges aren't "true"?
   231. cHiEf iMpaCt oFfiCEr JE Posted: June 14, 2023 at 11:03 AM (#6132762)
So what will you be saying, "if true" leads to a conviction? And what leads you to believe that the charges aren't "true"?
Um, hello? Bill Barr said out loud on Sunday: "Now, I do think we have to wait and see the defense says, and what proves to be true. But I do think that half of what Andy McCarthy, which — if even half of it is true, then he’s toast."

As I've said elsewhere, Trump may have committed one or more criminal acts.

What most grievously harms the polity is the selective enforcement. Go back and look at my comments here from around the 5th of July in 2016. I might have scoffed at the arguments used and why it was Comey, not Lynch, in front of that microphone, but generally agreed with the decision not to prosecute Hillary, as she was a major party's candidate for POTUS, and therefore that sort of discretion was warranted.
   232. Zonk Doesn't Get What You See in the Gameshow Host Posted: June 14, 2023 at 11:21 AM (#6132767)
The go-to whattabout is so dumb.

1. Trump is only being charged on the materials that required a search warrant to retrieve. That’s why he’s facing only 31 counts specific to the documents rather than 19,000.

2. Refusing to comply with multiple request *and* a subpoena *and* then actively sought to hide docs from any search. This why he’s facing obstruction charges.

3. There are two allegations that he actually shared these materials with others - one on tape FFS! - allegations that do not exist in the whattabout cases. That’s why he’s being charged under the espionage act.

4. The nature of the materials in question differs substantially.

Anyone ignoring at least 1-3 is not a serious or honest person.
   233. greenback does not like sand Posted: June 14, 2023 at 11:32 AM (#6132768)
Anyone ignoring at least 1-3 is not a serious or honest person.

Yes, JE is dishonest, and yet you engage with him. We've known since the failure of the second impeachment (if not before) that the GOP refuses any attempt to hold Trump accountable for even the most egregious behavior, and you know instead we'll get post hoc bull #### talking points ("selective enforcement" sounds like it might buy a day or two). I don't see the point here.
   234. JL72 Posted: June 14, 2023 at 11:45 AM (#6132770)
Yes, JE is dishonest, and yet you engage with him. We've known since the failure of the second impeachment (if not before) that the GOP refuses any attempt to hold Trump accountable for even the most egregious behavior, and you know instead we'll get post hoc bull #### talking points ("selective enforcement" sounds like it might buy a day or two). I don't see the point here.


Exactly. He and others require charges and proof so powerful that even they would agree that Trump is guilty, then cite their failure to agree that Trump is guilty as proof that the charges and evidence against Trump are a witch hunt and that he is being treated unfairly.

It is a neat little trick, but one that is duplicitous at its core.
   235. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: June 14, 2023 at 11:46 AM (#6132771)
In any event, I'm pretty sure all of the above, except maybe Clown Conway, have qualified their comments with some variation of "if true."
Well, I mean, no ####; that's implicit. It's only Trumpkins who argue that people should be prosecuted for things they know aren't true.
   236. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: June 14, 2023 at 11:51 AM (#6132773)
1. Trump is only being charged on the materials that required a search warrant to retrieve. That’s why he’s facing only 31 counts specific to the documents rather than 19,000.


I have also heard, and I can't verify if it is true, that there were other documents found during the search that they are not charging him with because they are so sensitive that they don't want to take any chance that their contents would be revealed during the legal proceedings.
   237. Zonk Doesn't Get What You See in the Gameshow Host Posted: June 14, 2023 at 12:07 PM (#6132775)
That may be right - IDK. The seized doc count is higher than the counts he was charged with, but I assumed they were more related to 4…. Classified but more on the handsy ambassador/gossip/etc realm. But maybe I’m wrong.
   238. Zonk Doesn't Get What You See in the Gameshow Host Posted: June 14, 2023 at 01:09 PM (#6132791)
Noted leftist Michael Luttig -

“There is not an Attorney General of either party who would not have brought today’s charges against the former president.”
   239. cHiEf iMpaCt oFfiCEr JE Posted: June 14, 2023 at 01:41 PM (#6132807)
Well, I mean, no ####;
zonk would like a word.
   240. cHiEf iMpaCt oFfiCEr JE Posted: June 14, 2023 at 01:50 PM (#6132813)
4. The nature of the materials in question differs substantially.
It's pretty evident again you have no clue what you're talking about. Hillary mishandled classified documents and obstructed justice. Had she been a service member, there's no question she would have been prosecuted in a New York minute.
   241. cHiEf iMpaCt oFfiCEr JE Posted: June 14, 2023 at 02:00 PM (#6132815)
Since a good number of you are now Bill Barr's bestie, shall we recall why else he made news* these past several days?
“What I learned,” Raskin claimed, “was that Attorney General Barr named Scott Brady, who was the U.S. attorney for Western Pennsylvania, to head up a group of prosecutors who would look into all the allegations related to Ukraine.”

“After Rudy Giuliani surfaced these allegations,” Raskin continued, Brady’s team looked into the FD-1023 and “in August determined that there was no grounds to escalate from an initial assessment to a preliminary investigation,” and so “they called an end to the investigation.”


The contradiction was immediately apparent. How could the investigation be shut down if, as Comer said, the FBI said it was still ongoing? Who was telling the truth?

It didn’t take long to get an answer. Barr is now speaking out, and he has confirmed that Raskin is lying. Not only is he misleading people about Barr and Scott Brady shuttering the investigation, but the former AG also revealed that sufficient grounds existed to hand it off to the prosecutor in Delaware (where jurisdiction would reside).

“It’s not true. It wasn’t closed down,” William Barr told The Federalist on Tuesday in response to Democrat Rep. Jamie Raskin’s claim that the former attorney general and his “handpicked prosecutor” had ended an investigation into a confidential human source’s allegation that Joe Biden had agreed to a $5 million bribe. “On the contrary,” Barr stressed, “it was sent to Delaware for further investigation.”

It is unclear whether Raskin was fed the false information that he repeated several times (including in a later press release) or if he made it up himself. What is clear is that his tactics resemble those of Rep. Adam Schiff, the California congressman who was notorious for lying about the Russian collusion investigation.
Oh, and Barr also shot down the Rudy connection part.

There may be five million reasons why Congressman Raskin puts party over country.

* Not in the MSM, of course, since nearly all of them run interference for the White House.
   242. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: June 14, 2023 at 02:46 PM (#6132823)
“There is not an Attorney General of either party who would not have brought today’s charges against the former president.”


C'mon, seriously? I'm pretty sure Trump is guilty as hell, but we all know that if the same evidence was discovered in regards to Obama, there's no way in hell Garland indicts. Trump being guilty, and the prosecution being politically motivated can both be true.
   243. Zonk Doesn't Get What You See in the Gameshow Host Posted: June 14, 2023 at 03:08 PM (#6132826)
C'mon, seriously? I'm pretty sure Trump is guilty as hell, but we all know that if the same evidence was discovered in regards to Obama, there's no way in hell Garland indicts. Trump being guilty, and the prosecution being politically motivated can both be true.


You seriously think that if A)Obama refused a request to return materials he wasn't supposed to have, B)defied a subpoena to return them, C)plotted to hide them, D)those materials related to the highest levels of nuclear/defense secrets, and D)all four of these items were recorded on tape...

Seriously?

   244. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: June 14, 2023 at 03:29 PM (#6132832)
C'mon, seriously? I'm pretty sure Trump is guilty as hell, but we all know that if the same evidence was discovered in regards to Obama, there's no way in hell Garland indicts.


News flash: Garland did not indict Trump. Neither did Biden despite what Fox News claims.
   245. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: June 14, 2023 at 03:30 PM (#6132833)
You seriously think that if A)Obama refused a request to return materials he wasn't supposed to have, B)defied a subpoena to return them, C)plotted to hide them, D)those materials related to the highest levels of nuclear/defense secrets, and D)all four of these items were recorded on tape...

Seriously?


Yes. A Democratic administration would have never even filed the subpoena. They would have hushed it up.

I say that as someone who wants Donald Trump to vanish from the face of the earth immediately.
   246. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: June 14, 2023 at 03:31 PM (#6132834)
News flash: Garland did not indict Trump. Neither did Biden despite what Fox News claims.

Distinction without a difference. Do you think any of this happens if Garland or Biden says not to?
   247. Space Force fan Posted: June 14, 2023 at 03:31 PM (#6132835)
It's pretty evident again you have no clue what you're talking about. Hillary mishandled classified documents and obstructed justice. Had she been a service member, there's no question she would have been prosecuted in a New York minute.


After Comey declined to charge Clinton, I asked an Army Intel colleague, who conducted damage assessments of mishandled classified information as part of their "other duties as assigned", their opinion. They answered that "you wouldn't believe the sh$t that goes on". They went on to explain that in almost all cases they investigated, they discovered prior mishandling, sufficient for at least loss of clearance if not prosecution, that was overlooked or ignored by the person's management.

Bottom line: They were not surprised that Clinton did not get charged, since they didn't think that what she was accused of was any more damaging than lots of stuff other people did that was also not prosecuted. So contrary to your opinion, in the real world, lots of mishandling of classified info doesn't get prosecuted.

FTR, they didn't give me an actual opinion about whether they thought she should have been prosecuted, but the way they deflected the conversation into examples of things other people did that weren't prosecuted lead me to the conclusion that they weren't outraged by the decision.
   248. greenback does not like sand Posted: June 14, 2023 at 03:43 PM (#6132840)
News flash: Garland did not indict Trump. Neither did Biden despite what Fox News claims.

Yes, the purpose of appointing a special prosecutor seems to be getting lost here.

Do you think any of this happens if Garland or Biden says not to?

After what John Durham was allowed to do -- and I'd guess you know who that is -- I'm pretty confident Smith was allowed to exercise his own judgment.
   249. Dog on the sidewalk has an ugly bracelet Posted: June 14, 2023 at 03:45 PM (#6132841)
Criminals should be held to account. They aren't always, but that doesn't justify future crime. And Donald Trump is a shamelessly transparent criminal.
   250. Zonk Doesn't Get What You See in the Gameshow Host Posted: June 14, 2023 at 04:16 PM (#6132850)
Yes. A Democratic administration would have never even filed the subpoena. They would have hushed it up.


I think that you're seriously overlooking or ignoring the long road to get there - it was more than a *year* of repeated requests that became demands that became demands with threats that then became a subpoena that then had finally became a search warrant.

I suppose there's no way to know, but I feel pretty certain had he simply complied within the first *more than a year* (up to the point of leaving no choice BUT to subpoena), there would have been no charges. I'm less sure, but highly suspect that even just complying in between subpoena and/before search warrant, there also would be no charges.

Given the nature of the materials, I don't think it is realistic to believe any DOJ would *not* have filed a subpoena.

   251. Captain Joe Bivens, Pointless and Wonderful Posted: June 14, 2023 at 05:18 PM (#6132862)
It is a neat little trick, but one that is duplicitous at its core.


I call it "The Dance of the Monkey".
   252. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: June 14, 2023 at 05:23 PM (#6132864)
After what John Durham was allowed to do -- and I'd guess you know who that is -- I'm pretty confident Smith was allowed to exercise his own judgment.


Plus the Trump appointed USA in Delaware who has been investigating Biden's own son since 2018. Biden left him in place so that he could continue the investigation.Meanwhile, Republican candidates for president are vowing, or at least saying they would consider pardoning Trump if they get elected. This, while we are at least a year away from a trial even.
   253. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 14, 2023 at 05:47 PM (#6132868)
There are two allegations that he actually shared these materials with others - one on tape FFS!
Zonk has repeatedly made it clear that he doesn’t need a trial before finding guilt, but the indictment isn’t all that clear on this count. It would be one thing if Trump were waving a document around, saying some form of “see, see, this is what was done”, and quite another if he actually handed it over and allowed it to be read. The former might be poor form but I doubt it would be sufficient for a criminal action. The indictment doesn’t quote the authors on anything indicating they actually read the document, and I don’t believe the authors have made any statement that they were actually privy to the document, although I’m unclear as to whether the indictment is referring to the ghostwriters for Meadows’ own book that is already out or another book on Meadows that Trump was willing to cooperate on. In any event, a trial, or perhaps pre-trial motions, should provide more info.
   254. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: June 14, 2023 at 05:55 PM (#6132870)
Distinction without a difference. Do you think any of this happens if Garland or Biden says not to?


Had they done that, I would expect a loud and public resignation by Smith, or any other special counsel. Again, Biden has the power to shut down the criminal investigation of his son, and yet he leaves the Trump appointed USA to continue his work.
   255. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: June 14, 2023 at 05:57 PM (#6132872)
As to the unfounded charges that Smith is some rabid Republican hater, he investigated and indicted Bob Menendez, and investigated and tried (but failed) to charge John Edwards.
   256. greenback does not like sand Posted: June 14, 2023 at 06:12 PM (#6132876)
Zonk has repeatedly made it clear that he doesn’t need a trial before finding guilt, but the indictment isn’t all that clear on this count. It would be one thing if Trump were waving a document around, saying some form of “see, see, this is what was done”, and quite another if he actually handed it over and allowed it to be read.


IANAL but it seems like establishing that your client is full of #### might pose some problems when the FBI claims that your client tried to bull #### his way through negotiations for the return of classified documents.
   257. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 14, 2023 at 07:42 PM (#6132891)
For the record, I think it is hilarious that the counter-hypothetical involves Obama doing things that are so implausible for him to have done that they are just ridiculous on their face. Obama ran an amazingly clean and drama-free White House because he is not a lying criminal treason weasel like Trump.

But yes, if Obama were a lying criminal treason weasel, then I would expect a Biden administration to go after him and I would object strenuously if that administration did not do the right thing.

Note: I am not suggesting Obama is perfect, and I am sure the WhatAbout crowd can summon the usual suspects of not-really-scandals to attack Obama. Well, feel free. They were not real scandals then and won't be now, certainly nothing to hold a candle to the purported crimes of the lying criminal treason weasel.
   258. SoSH U at work Posted: June 14, 2023 at 07:54 PM (#6132895)
For the record, I think it is hilarious that the counter-hypothetical involves Obama doing things that are so implausible for him to have done that they are just ridiculous on their face.


To be fair, it's virtually impossible to imagine any of the other presidents being caught up in this particular scandal. It is spectacular in its stupidity.
   259. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 14, 2023 at 07:56 PM (#6132896)
It would be one thing if Trump were waving a document around, saying some form of “see, see, this is what was done”, and quite another if he actually handed it over and allowed it to be read.


I am fairly certain both are illegal since he wasn't allowed to have the documents, knew they were classified, and in one example explicitly stated that he could have declassified it when he was president, but now he can't. I bet the prosecutor found it super-handy that Trump recorded his own guilt in such a clear and concise fashion.
   260. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 14, 2023 at 08:25 PM (#6132898)
I am fairly certain both are illegal since he wasn't allowed to have the documents, knew they were classified, and in one example explicitly stated that he could have declassified it when he was president, but now he can't.
My comment wasn’t about any of the 31 counts charging Willful Retention of National Defense Information, just whether Trump could be prosecuted for improperly sharing the documents discussed on p. 16-17 of the indictment. However, although the indictment makes much of the fact that the other people present didn’t have security clearances, upon closer reading of the indictment, I see that it doesn’t include any improper disclosure charges against Trump, which would seem to suggest that the documents weren’t actually shared with those present.
   261. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: June 14, 2023 at 08:35 PM (#6132899)
However, although the indictment makes much of the fact that the other people present didn’t have security clearances, upon closer reading of the indictment, I see that it doesn’t include any improper disclosure charges against Trump, which would seem to suggest that the documents weren’t actually shared with those present.


Wouldn't those have to be charged in NJ and not FL? In any event, I think the value of that taped exchange to the prosecution is not that they have something else to charge him for, but to preemptively sink a couple of possible defenses: that they were already de-classified, and that he did not know it was wrong to have and share these documents.
   262. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: June 14, 2023 at 08:41 PM (#6132901)
1. Trump is only being charged on the materials that required a search warrant to retrieve. That’s why he’s facing only 31 counts specific to the documents rather than 19,000.
That's not correct. Well, it's not complete, and it's misleading. It's true that he's not being charged for any documents he returned, no matter how belatedly. But far more than 31 documents required the search warrant to retrieve. He's only being charged for a subset of those documents. We don't know why they selected those particular documents.


(He's not being charged for any non-classified documents, even though he unlawfully retained many of them, as well.)
   263. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: June 14, 2023 at 08:51 PM (#6132902)
One thing this indictment has shown me, well, re-enforced rather than shown, is how ####### tacky and sloppy Trump is. people think "Oh, he's a billionaire. He's rich and elegant." Several dozens of boxes stored on the ballroom stage. People pay serious money to belong to the club and have events in the ballroom. And they have to look at dozens of banker's boxes on the stage?
   264. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: June 14, 2023 at 08:52 PM (#6132903)
“It’s not true. It wasn’t closed down,” William Barr told The Federalist on Tuesday in response to Democrat Rep. Jamie Raskin’s claim that the former attorney general and his “handpicked prosecutor” had ended an investigation into a confidential human source’s allegation that Joe Biden had agreed to a $5 million bribe. “On the contrary,” Barr stressed, “it was sent to Delaware for further investigation.”
Now who's pretending to be stupid? Fobbing it off on the USAO for Delaware is shutting it down, without formally shutting it down. If the vice president of the U.S. were accepting bribes, that would be handled by the Public Integrity Section at Main Justice, not a random backwater USAO.
   265. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 14, 2023 at 08:54 PM (#6132905)
My comment wasn’t about any of the 31 counts charging Willful Retention of National Defense Information, just whether Trump could be prosecuted for improperly sharing the documents discussed on p. 16-17 of the indictment. However, although the indictment makes much of the fact that the other people present didn’t have security clearances, upon closer reading of the indictment, I see that it doesn’t include any improper disclosure charges against Trump, which would seem to suggest that the documents weren’t actually shared with those present.


My takeaway is that the prosecution is being as generous as possible in what they are charging. They are not charging every possible thing they can, instead, they are being very selective and exacting as to what they are charging. I wouldn't assume that the lying criminal treason weasel was totally blameless for anything not specifically charged.

They had more than enough to charge him with and (I assume) picked the charges they felt best about making the case.
   266. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 14, 2023 at 09:16 PM (#6132910)
In Bitter Mouse’s world, a charge not included in the indictment is still good if Trump is the defendant.
   267. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 14, 2023 at 09:28 PM (#6132912)
In Bitter Mouse’s world, a charge not included in the indictment is still good if Trump is the defendant.


I don't even know what this means. Are we pretending that the prosecutors charged every possible count they count have? Because that notion is absurd and you know it.

And for the record, I have not opined on the solidity of the charges, but rather mostly on the lying criminal treason weasel nature of the defendant.
   268. a brief article regarding 57i66135 Posted: June 14, 2023 at 09:46 PM (#6132915)
lock him up
lock him up
lock him up
lock him up


   269. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 14, 2023 at 09:47 PM (#6132916)
Bitter Mouse’s suggestion that the prosecutor has magnanimously refrained from charging Trump with more crimes that could be proven seems to be something he created entirely himself. Some people are never satisfied.
   270. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 14, 2023 at 10:03 PM (#6132920)
Bitter Mouse’s suggestion that the prosecutor has magnanimously refrained from charging Trump with more crimes that could be proven seems to be something he created entirely himself. Some people are never satisfied.


It was a strategic choice and not an altruistic one. And I have expressed not one iota of satisfaction or dissatisfaction. Again, my primary expression has been to the nature of your hero, the lying criminal treason weasel.
   271. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 14, 2023 at 10:08 PM (#6132924)
lock him up


I doubt the lying criminal treason weasel spends a second of time in the pokey. Wealth and power have a quality all their own. He might end up being found guilty and being punished, but I doubt that punishment includes prison time.
   272. a brief article regarding 57i66135 Posted: June 14, 2023 at 11:03 PM (#6132940)
I doubt the lying criminal treason weasel spends a second of time in the pokey. Wealth and power have a quality all their own. He might end up being found guilty and being punished, but I doubt that punishment includes prison time.

it was more of a meta-comment about the flippancy with which trump and his cultists wantonly cheered for the politically-motivated prosecution of their enemies, but have now turned into shrinking violets at the realization that their guy is now on the receiving end of a very legitimate prosecution.

even assuming the least charitable interpretation of these events, this is a "what's good for the goose" situation. you can call for the prosecution of your political enemies, or you can whine about being the victim of a politically motivated witch hunt, but when you try to do both, you can #### the #### off.


lock him up.
   273. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 14, 2023 at 11:45 PM (#6132951)
Here's a sporting proposition: Which development is more likely?

---Trump gets elected president in 2024

---Trump gets jail time for any one of the innumerable crimes he's going to wind up being charged with, in addition to the ones he's now facing in Florida.
   274. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: June 15, 2023 at 12:53 AM (#6132956)
The first one. Easy.
   275. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 15, 2023 at 08:01 AM (#6132968)
Score one for Conventional Cynical Wisdom.** Anyone else?

** Personally my opinion about the possibility of jail time rests almost solely upon the makeup of the Florida jury, along with other juries down the road. Without jury nullification I think there's a reasonable chance he gets at least some jail time, a much better chance than he ever will have of being elected president. Anyone who thinks that he'll be able to use his phony martyrdom to win over anyone but a few more GOP primary voters is living in a dream world.
   276. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 15, 2023 at 08:27 AM (#6132969)
Elected President is more likely.

And you didn't answer which you think is more likley. Saying "it depends" is kind of not part of the bit, you have to pick one as written. Which shouldn't be hard, because you wrote it.
   277. Captain Joe Bivens, Pointless and Wonderful Posted: June 15, 2023 at 08:35 AM (#6132971)
Wouldn't those have to be charged in NJ and not FL?


Stay tuned!
   278. Captain Joe Bivens, Pointless and Wonderful Posted: June 15, 2023 at 08:36 AM (#6132972)
Yes, Trump has a great chance of being elected again. With OJ as his running mate. Innocent until proven guilty!
   279. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 15, 2023 at 09:20 AM (#6132976)
Yes, Trump has a great chance of being elected again.


Assuming he is nominated (likely), the trial has not happened yet (very likely), his opponent is Biden (extremely likely), and both Trump and Biden have no major health issues (very likely) then I think Trump is an underdog. He has a chance to win (stuff happens), but it is not very likely at all IMO. But still more likely than Trump serving prison time.
   280. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: June 15, 2023 at 09:28 AM (#6132977)
** Personally my opinion about the possibility of jail time rests almost solely upon the makeup of the Florida jury, along with other juries down the road. Without jury nullification I think there's a reasonable chance he gets at least some jail time, a much better chance than he ever will have of being elected president. Anyone who thinks that he'll be able to use his phony martyrdom to win over anyone but a few more GOP primary voters is living in a dream world.


You're leaving out the possibility of a Republican other than Trump being the nominee and winning the election. In that case, he gets pardoned, or more likely, the case gets dropped because I don't think there's much chance of him going to trial before the election. Then there's also the possibility of him losing the nomination and then taking a plea which has no jail time.
   281. Captain Joe Bivens, Pointless and Wonderful Posted: June 15, 2023 at 09:29 AM (#6132978)
But still more likely than Trump serving prison time.


Me winning a multi million dollar lottery is more likely than me winning the presidential election.
   282. greenback does not like sand Posted: June 15, 2023 at 09:30 AM (#6132979)
The most obvious determinant of jail time in the national security case in Florida is the judge, and she is just as likely as not to direct the rare and beautiful "Perfectly Innocent" verdict.
   283. Captain Joe Bivens, Pointless and Wonderful Posted: June 15, 2023 at 09:30 AM (#6132980)
You're leaving out the possibility of a Republican other than Trump being the nominee and winning the election.


You're assuming that enough of the cult will bother voting for a candidate other than Trump.
   284. Captain Joe Bivens, Pointless and Wonderful Posted: June 15, 2023 at 09:31 AM (#6132981)
she is just as likely as not to direct the rare and beautiful "Perfectly Innocent" verdict.


Assuming the jury comes back with a guilty verdict, she takes a yuge risk overturning it, and I would hope that her actions would be overturned, as well.
   285. Captain Joe Bivens, Pointless and Wonderful Posted: June 15, 2023 at 09:32 AM (#6132982)
You people are pants pissers.
   286. greenback does not like sand Posted: June 15, 2023 at 09:40 AM (#6132983)
Nolo contendere, but Cannon is one of your dancing monkeys.

Of course, we can take solace in the fact that it's very unlikely the venue will be changed to Amarillo, where the outcome of the case would be the execution of various women who had abortions during the Obama administration.
   287. Captain Joe Bivens, Pointless and Wonderful Posted: June 15, 2023 at 09:48 AM (#6132984)
Cannon is one of your dancing monkeys


She's already been humiliated once, if she dares pull a stunt like overturning a verdict, she'd likely be humiliated again. I think.


I don't think that he gets convicted in FL. The best we'll see is a hung jury, because they're likely to have one or 2 MAGA idiots seated.


NJ.
   288. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 15, 2023 at 09:56 AM (#6132986)
You people are pants pissers.


Not really. Any major party nominee has a chance. And Joe Biden is not the most imposing incumbent of all time, oldest, but not the most imposing. I think Trump would be an underdog, but it is too early to put a finer point on it than that.
   289. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: June 15, 2023 at 10:03 AM (#6132988)
Assuming the jury comes back with a guilty verdict, she takes a yuge risk overturning it, and I would hope that her actions would be overturned, as well.


No, she's unlikely to overrule the jury. But she can do things like granting the defense favorable rulings on motions, help rig the jury, rule out various elements of the prosecutions case, etc.
   290. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 15, 2023 at 10:26 AM (#6132991)
The main thing she can do is delay, and that won't take much effort at all. And it is not like delays can be overturned such that we go back in time.
   291. a brief article regarding 57i66135 Posted: June 15, 2023 at 10:55 AM (#6132997)
She's already been humiliated once, if she dares pull a stunt like overturning a verdict, she'd likely be humiliated again. I think.
twice, actually.

fool me once, shame on me; fool me twice, you're not gonna fool me again.
   292. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: June 15, 2023 at 10:58 AM (#6132999)
trump and his cultists wantonly cheered for the politically-motivated prosecution of their enemies, but have now turned into shrinking violets at the realization that their guy is now on the receiving end of a very legitimate prosecution.


That hasn't happened that I've seen. Hannity and Trump's other cheerleaders very much do not see it as legitimate. (I haven't heard them defend Trump's actions per se, just saying it's no big deal, Hillary was worse, blah blah blah).
   293. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 15, 2023 at 11:46 AM (#6133013)
You're leaving out the possibility of a Republican other than Trump being the nominee and winning the election. In that case, he gets pardoned, or more likely, the case gets dropped because I don't think there's much chance of him going to trial before the election. Then there's also the possibility of him losing the nomination and then taking a plea which has no jail time.

To the first point, I don't see any MAGA Republican winning the general election, and at this point all the plausible alternative nominees are ensconced in Trump's codpiece.

To the second point, that's something I hadn't considered, and it's a good one. What you're implicitly saying is that if Trump loses the nomination he won't risk having Biden win, and so he'll take a plea bargain rather than risk a jail sentence with no president there to pardon him. I'd say that's a more likely possibility than his actually winning the election.

Bottom line it comes down to which is more likely:

1. Trump winning the election

2. Trump making a plea bargain that avoids jail time

3. Trump being acquitted on all criminal charges in all of his cases

4. Trump getting at least some jail time and with Biden winning, having to serve at least part of his sentence, if only for symbolic purposes.

Personally I find the first highly unlikely, the second a real possibility if he loses the nomination, the third extremely unlikely, and the fourth the most likely, though obviously no guarantees.

I think we'd all agree that the ideal outcome would be for Trump to die from natural causes during a campaign where the polls are overwhelmingly going against him. But counting on Trump's sudden death is about as wise as counting on his MAGA cultists to desert him.
   294. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 15, 2023 at 11:48 AM (#6133015)
No, she's unlikely to overrule the jury. But she can do things like granting the defense favorable rulings on motions, help rig the jury, rule out various elements of the prosecutions case, etc.

Right, and that's my main worry. My consolation is that in his other cases he won't be blessed with a MAGA judge. He's getting shot through the forest and won't be able to avoid every tree.
   295. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 15, 2023 at 12:34 PM (#6133027)
Bottom line it comes down to which is more likely:


I think the chance that he is convicted without a plea deal and still never sees the inside of a prison is a very real (and even likely) outcome.
   296. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: June 15, 2023 at 12:38 PM (#6133028)
Yes. I would change the parameters to "being confined in some manner whether it's technically a prison or not."
   297. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: June 15, 2023 at 12:41 PM (#6133030)
I would be perfectly fine with him confined to house arrest in MAL with no access to social media and having to wear an ankle bracelet.
   298. a brief article regarding 57i66135 Posted: June 15, 2023 at 01:00 PM (#6133033)
mayor ponzi postalita has declared his candidacy.
   299. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: June 15, 2023 at 02:31 PM (#6133042)
** Personally my opinion about the possibility of jail time rests almost solely upon the makeup of the Florida jury, along with other juries down the road. Without jury nullification I think there's a reasonable chance he gets at least some jail time, a much better chance than he ever will have of being elected president. Anyone who thinks that he'll be able to use his phony martyrdom to win over anyone but a few more GOP primary voters is living in a dream world.
Juries, of course, do not decide whether someone gets jail time.


EDIT: Not federal ones, anyway.
   300. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 15, 2023 at 02:48 PM (#6133045)
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