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Tuesday, November 29, 2011

Jays target Heath Bell

But not Yu:

Insiders say Jays president Paul Beeston is not a fan of the current posting system in place which sees teams pay anywhere from $50-to-$100 million to the Nippon Ham Fighters for just the right to negotiate with right-hander Yu Darvish.

Mike Emeigh Posted: November 29, 2011 at 07:06 PM | 29 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: blue jays

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   1. Greg K Posted: November 29, 2011 at 07:31 PM (#4003079)
I wouldn't put it past Beeston to be trying to convince people they're not in on Darvish in a (probably) fruitless attempt to keep the bidding down. I mean, AA went to Japan to see him pitch for criminy's sake. I somehow doubt the Jays are dead-set against the idea.

I'd be curious what Bell would go for. Darvish is a far riskier (read: exciting!) choice. Will it be something like 3/30? I'm guessing that's a bit conservative, and even at that I think I'd rather roll the dice on Darvish.
   2. never forget: the pee tape is 57i66135 Posted: November 29, 2011 at 07:36 PM (#4003084)
Insiders say Jays president Paul Beeston is not a fan of the current posting system in place which sees teams pay anywhere from $50-to-$100 million to the Nippon Ham Fighters for just the right to negotiate with right-hander Yu Darvish.

here's what i don't understand. if a pitcher sees that a team is willing to pay 50 million just for the right to negotiate a contract with him, why wouldn't he wait the year and just enter free agnecy in 2012? pitching for another year comes with some risk, but pulling an extra $50 million would be a fairly persuasive reason to do it.
   3. formerly dp Posted: November 29, 2011 at 07:41 PM (#4003086)
Will it be something like 3/30? I'm guessing that's a bit conservative, and even at that I think I'd rather roll the dice on Darvish.

I don't see Bell signing for that little, though I think you have the years right. How much money do the Jays have to spend this offseason? AA must be loving life right now with no Vern on the payroll.
   4. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: November 29, 2011 at 07:48 PM (#4003092)
I mean, AA went to Japan to see him pitch for criminy's sake.


Could just be advance scouting for 2012, I guess, if they expect him to end up in the division.
   5. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: November 29, 2011 at 07:55 PM (#4003097)
Bob Elliott on the Toronto Sun was speculating the Jays could be offering Colby Rasmus for Joakim Soria.
   6. Greg K Posted: November 29, 2011 at 07:55 PM (#4003098)
How much money do the Jays have to spend this offseason?

I think it's a bit open-ended. Beeston has said several times that ownership is willing to bump payroll up to around $140 mil (I'm making that up, but I know Beeston has used an actual number around there, I just forget what it is) when the front office believes "the time is right". However, there's been no indication that now is "the time", so I'd lean towards the answer to that question being "not a great deal". Though I think 2013-2014 could be different, and I get the feeling ownership is flexible enough to listen if AA happens across some kind of likely scheme.
   7. Greg K Posted: November 29, 2011 at 07:56 PM (#4003101)
Bob Elliott on the Toronto Sun was speculating the Jays could be offering Colby Rasmus for Joakim Soria.

And Broxton signing sets it all off!
   8. formerly dp Posted: November 29, 2011 at 08:07 PM (#4003107)
However, there's been no indication that now is "the time", so I'd lean towards the answer to that question being "not a great deal".

I feel like this has been the rut they've been in pretty much forever-- trying to accurately assess when the Sox and Yanks (and now the Rays) are vulnerable enough, and the Jays have enough on-hand talent, to make opening the wallet prudent. Right now it seems like they're close, but way too many question marks (Lind, Rasmus, Arencibia, Snider) in the lineup to bank on having the offense required to be competitive. Looking at their numbers now, I guess I blacked out on just how terrible Rasmus was after coming to Toronto. Drabek and Snider are burned pretty permanently in there...
   9. Rants Mulliniks Posted: November 29, 2011 at 08:09 PM (#4003108)
Didn't the Jays learn their lesson the last time they blew money on a closer?

And why on earth would they trade Rasmus? Good lord.
   10. MM1f Posted: November 29, 2011 at 08:09 PM (#4003109)
Could just be advance scouting for 2012, I guess, if they expect him to end up in the division.


Yeah, your GM doesn't go across the world to advance scout a guy on the chance that he winds up in your division the following year.

And why on earth would they trade Rasmus? Good lord.


Because he is pretty overrated - though at this point he might just be overrated by internet types and not teams - and kind of a dick who doesn't care to take any coach's advice (except for Daddy of course) on how to improve.
   11. Eric P. Posted: November 29, 2011 at 08:10 PM (#4003111)
here's what i don't understand. if a pitcher sees that a team is willing to pay 50 million just for the right to negotiate a contract with him, why wouldn't he wait the year and just enter free agnecy in 2012? pitching for another year comes with some risk, but pulling an extra $50 million would be a fairly persuasive reason to do it.


This mostly has to do with players not reaching free agency in Japan until they've played 9 years. Darvish would still have to pitch another 4 seasons in NPB to get on the open market.

EDIT: Or maybe not. B-Ref only has his stats going back to 2007, which I'd assumed was his debut. Wikipedia has him debuting in 2005, though (only a partial season, so it may not have been enough to use up a year of service time). So he has either 2 or 3 years remaining before being eligible for free agency.
   12. Greg K Posted: November 29, 2011 at 08:18 PM (#4003119)
I feel like this has been the rut they've been in pretty much forever

They went for it in 2006 adding AJ Burnett, BJ Ryan, Troy Glaus, and Bengie Molina.

You can argue that those weren't the right guys to go with, but the effort was there. Since then it's been the waiting game.
   13. The_Ex Posted: November 29, 2011 at 08:24 PM (#4003125)
The headline say "Jays target Heath Bell".

The article says "“The Blue Jays have the money, their best option is Heath Bell,” said one evaluator familiar with the closing landscape."

Nowhere in the article does it say the Jays are in on Bell.

The Bell part of the story can be summarized thusly:

The Jays need a closer. Heath Bell is a closer. One guy says the Jays should go after Heath Bell. Ergo the Jays are targeting Bell.

1+1=3?
   14. Rants Mulliniks Posted: November 29, 2011 at 08:32 PM (#4003128)
Should have RTFA I guess!
   15. Matthew E Posted: November 29, 2011 at 09:06 PM (#4003143)
Jays target Heath Bell


I'll believe it when I see it.

Maybe.
   16. Endless Trash Posted: November 29, 2011 at 09:55 PM (#4003173)
"“The Blue Jays have the money, their best option is Heath Bell,” said one evaluator familiar with the closing landscape."


I swear to God, reporters are getting lazier and lazier.
   17. cardsfanboy Posted: November 29, 2011 at 10:07 PM (#4003183)
Because he is pretty overrated - though at this point he might just be overrated by internet types and not teams - and kind of a dick who doesn't care to take any coach's advice (except for Daddy of course) on how to improve.


Not really fair to Rasmus, he did take the Cardinals hitting advice, his dad just kept complaining online that they were going to ruin his swing. Rasmus is going to end up a lot like JD Drew, a guy that will never be the leader of the team or the front man of the team, but leave him alone and he'll put up near all star numbers year in, year out. If anything, I would not worry about his bat and work on improving his defense. He has all the tools to be a plus defender(except maybe the brain)

edit: It also can't be easy playing for TLR, a guy who usually demands results, when you are the coaches kid, and dad kept you in the game no matter how well you were playing.
   18. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: November 30, 2011 at 01:21 AM (#4003274)
And why on earth would they trade Rasmus? Good lord.


I think it was more of a joke referencing trading Mike Napoli for Frank Francisco.
   19. ...and Toronto selects: Troy Tulowitzki Posted: November 30, 2011 at 03:27 AM (#4003342)
"I think it was more of a joke referencing trading Mike Napoli for Frank Francisco."

I don't think that's what he had in mind. Anthopoulos didn't try to get Rasmus for two years, fill a void in CF, trade blah blah, take on cash (Tehean), etc etc, just to now trade him.

Elliott's reporting this week is sad, lazy, and is really just regurgitated tales from his usual drinking buddies/scout type stuff that he usually does. Elliott's "work" the last few days is getting laughed at a lot. He was on the Fan590 sports radio today and made himself sound like a kid blogging outta his parents basement. The Jays front office under Anthopoulos never leaks to the media, so it makes it difficult to get good scoop. Elliott's reporting this week, sounds like he hasn't even tried to remember/understand any of the moves/mantra AA constantly demonstrates and talks about with the press. Weak sauce.
   20. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: November 30, 2011 at 03:37 AM (#4003349)
Rumors are the Jays are interested in Royals reliever Greg Holland, not Soria. Holland really is quite good. Not sure he's worth Rasmus, but if they're dead set on getting a reliever, he's good, young, with five more controllable years.
   21. ...and Toronto selects: Troy Tulowitzki Posted: November 30, 2011 at 03:46 AM (#4003352)
Elliott's Royals scouty friends would like Rasmus for a reliever maybe, but that's where the fairytale ends. AA trades 4 relievers for Rasmus, then trades Rasmus for 1 reliever. The fungible flip flop flip.
   22. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: November 30, 2011 at 04:06 AM (#4003364)

Elliott's Royals scouty friends would like Rasmus for a reliever maybe, but that's where the fairytale ends. AA trades 4 relievers for Rasmus, then trades Rasmus for 1 reliever. The fungible flip flop flip.


And the Royals have to take Mark Teahen back.
   23. ...and Toronto selects: Troy Tulowitzki Posted: November 30, 2011 at 04:10 AM (#4003366)
And the Royals have to take Mark Teahen back.

Can the Jays finally have Gil Meche?
   24. Starring RMc as Bradley Scotchman Posted: November 30, 2011 at 10:33 AM (#4003446)
“The Blue Jays have the money, their best option is Heath Bell,” said one evaluator familiar with the closing landscape."


Oh, man. That's gold!
   25. Jose Needs an Absurd Ukulele Concert Posted: November 30, 2011 at 11:34 AM (#4003452)
teams pay anywhere from $50-to-$100 million to the Nippon Ham Fighters for just the right to negotiate with right-hander Yu Darvish.


This drives me crazy because it is just wrong. The teams don't pay for the right to negotiate, they only pay if they sign the player. No money is exchanged if the player is not signed.
   26. Rants Mulliniks Posted: November 30, 2011 at 01:37 PM (#4003486)
How hard could it be to fight ham?
   27. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: November 30, 2011 at 02:10 PM (#4003501)
How hard could it be to fight ham?


Judging by the size of Heath Bell, harder than you think.
   28. Jason Robar Posted: November 30, 2011 at 02:24 PM (#4003508)
Bob Elliott on the Toronto Sun was speculating the Jays could be offering Colby Rasmus for Joakim Soria.


Except Elliott didn't do that speculation. The Editor of the Royals SBNation page did the speculating. He took the article linked in the OP which referenced the Jays' targetting of a closer and the Royals' interest in Colby Rasmus and then said "hey, maybe the Royals would trade Soria for Rasmus," only to follow it up with "actually, Soria is probably worth more than just Rasmus, so I don't know that they should do make that trade."

It's a terrible title to the post, which references a rumour which doesn't exist as a rumour.
   29. zack Posted: November 30, 2011 at 03:44 PM (#4003563)
How hard could it be to fight ham?

Judging by the size of Heath Bell, harder than you think.


And it's a fastball right down the middle...and he crushes it! Home run Alex Gordon...'s number one fan!
   30. Greg K Posted: November 30, 2011 at 03:49 PM (#4003567)
It's a terrible title to the post, which references a rumour which doesn't exist as a rumour.

This is precisely why the use of "common fame" to stand in as an accuser was such a dangerous precedent in the 1626 impeachment case against the Duke of Buckingham.

And I am one step closer to completing my book which traces all of the injustices of modern professional baseball to 1620s England. Now I just need to figure out how Jeff Francoeur fits into things.

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