He should go on tour with O.J.

But not for baseball commissioner Bud Selig, whom he calls “a true cretin,” “idiot,” “head dummy,” and a “moron of extreme proportions.”

Another Primate wrote a book!

Arguing that Americans’ rights are being taken away due to the war on terror: “You know what? We lost (technically). The terrorists have won. My nation is no longer free.”

baseball commissioner Bud Selig, whom he calls “a true cretin,” “idiot,” “head dummy,” and a “moron of extreme proportions.”

John, don't make me like you.

That quote about him objecting to rights being taken away doesn't sound like Rocker at all. I would have expected him to blame it all on towelheads or something.

One of the best stats to aggravate fans with: John Rocker's 0.00 ERA in 20 postseason appearances.

Also, the active MLB leader in consecutive games played, the moment that Cal Ripken Jr. sat out: Albert Belle.

he referred to the old proverb that says “Don’t pick up fight with a guy who buys ink by the truckload.”

Don't trust any proverb that needs a proofreader.

John, don't make me like you.

No kidding.

and on his website, Rocker selling "Speak English" t-shirts....most likely made somewhere overseas.

."

He adds, "In the midst of lengthy discussion I did say,"One of the things I don't like about New York City are the foreigners." As well as "I'm not a very big fan of foreigners..."

But Rocker told 13WMAZ that those comments were taken out of context.

I would really like to know the context that makes those comments sound good.

I would really like to know the context that makes those comments sound good.

Maybe he messed up the name of the band Foreigner and associates it with New York?

He probably said "If someone said to me, "I'm not a very big fan of foreigners", I would probably think he's a bigoted jackass."

From Steve/Jeff Pearlman...

The interview is awesome. Our lengthy discussion on immigration reform? WHAT!?

"One of the things I don't like about New York City are the foreigners who stab people to death. I'm not a very big fan of foreigners who stab people to death. Another thing I don't like about New York City are the Americans who stab people to death. I generally find stabbing to be in poor taste."

Arguing that Americans’ rights are being taken away due to the war on terror: “You know what? We lost (technically). The terrorists have won. My nation is no longer free.”

John, don't make me like you.

Don't worry - at least in the 'explanation' or 'meat' as he terms it, he explains he's still sick of 'political correctness' and that the only problem he has with foreigners is that they don't 'assimilate'...

Which means it's pretty clear that this statement is inch-deep meaningless claptrap... I mean, I'm unhappy with an awful lot of our security infrastructure's digital surveillance capabilities and programs, but I really think you'd have to be an idiot not to recognize that the erosion of civil liberties has hit those who happen to have olive skin, have facial hair that doesn't conform to traditional norms, or have a decidedly foreign accent/non-proficiency in English.

It doesn't mean that I like being groped by a TSA agent, but the forefront of civil liberties erosion is one hell of lot more likely to be found by those driving in certain states without fully in order papers and carrying their birth certificates than it is by me standing in an airport line.

Even if Rocker has nothing new to say, the mainstream has moved toward him. He'd fit right in at a presidential debate.

Why do right wingers all have the same misconception about what free speech means?

and on his website, Rocker selling "Speak English" t-shirts....most likely made somewhere overseas.

No lie: today I saw a pickup with multiple "Speak English" stickers on the window of the cap; on the gate was a bumper sticker reading "Pog Mo Thoin...I'm Irish".

Why do right wingers all have the same misconception about what free speech means?

Yeah, it's crazy. Like...ummm...it's crazy like...damn, like something.

You do have the right to remain silent, you know.

No lie: today I saw a pickup with multiple "Speak English" stickers on the window of the cap; on the gate was a bumper sticker reading "Pog Mo Thoin...I'm Irish".

Which is essentially the history of American immigration -- I only vaguely remember my great-grandfather, but he was a Polish immigrant and I do remember that he spoke virtually no English. My grandparents, who were very, very young when they immigrated - were multilingual, generally translating for my great-grandparents. My parents knew a bit of Polish, but nothing approaching conversational. I can basically say "Cheers" and "#### You".

This is no different than the history of any other regional immigration experience going all the way back to the pre-Civil War days when the Know Nothings briefly battled for the remnants of the Whigs... I think the only real difference is 1)modern media - it's not like you had Irish radio stations in the 1850 or Italian stations in the 1890s, and 2)the fact that America is more or less settled means that German, Swedish, etc immigrant communities don't translate into a world where there just isn't space left for immigrant communities to essentially settle an area.

1)modern media - it's not like you had Irish radio stations in the 1850 or Italian stations in the 1890s,

True, but as late as the 1920s Chicago had something like 11 Polish-language newspapers.

Why do right wingers all have the same misconception about what free speech means?

hardly a problem exclusive to one side of the aisle. The free exercise/establishment clauses might be the most misinterpreted part of the constitution by the public at-large, nudging out the 4th amendment protections, in my opinion. Amazing how many people think these rights protect you in any context, public or private.

hardly a problem exclusive to one side of the aisle. The free exercise/establishment clauses might be the most misinterpreted part of the constitution by the public at-large, nudging out the 4th amendment protections, in my opinion. Amazing how many people think these rights protect you in any context, public or private.

This is true - the idea that 'freedom of speech' means you don't have to face any social consequences for the things you say is an equal opportunity misreading.

The only thing that makes Rocker even marginally interesting is that he's not completely indiscriminate in his choice of minority group targets. He's always seemed to me to be more of a mix of simplistic thinking and attention-seeking than anything else, very much like the type of mildly bigoted jocks that you'd run into routinely several generations ago when sports were first becoming integrated. Sort of like a jockocracy version of the Savage / Limbaugh / Coulter crowd, only without their complete cynicism.

I would really like to know the context that makes those comments sound good.

And whether he made a similar attempt to properly contextualize the "queer with AIDS" bon mot.

I will say that multi-day, chummy interviews with dopey athletes sometimes end unfairly.
I can't and won't speak to whether this was one, because I don't know the particulars of the relationship.

But many athletes understand the "notebook and tape recorder in their face" on-the-record interviews, as well as the "shooting the breeze off the record after the interview is over" chats with the daily beat guys.

What they sometimes don't understand is that a guy can visit your house, have a beer or two and a meal with you, meet your wife or girlfriend and agent - and still use that Day 2 inane musing of yours, once you've gotten comfortable, in an article.

It happens. Again, not saying it happened here. But this isn't a guy running for President, either.

Though not exactly a sympathetic figure.
:)

But this isn't a guy running for President, either.

You've just won the Primey for the best straight line of this thread.

I attended a Braves game at Turner Field in August, 2010, and my family sat several rows behind a man in a John Rocker jersey. My father and I couldn't believe that someone would have the gall to wear that jersey. We also couldn't believe that someone hadn't kicked his ass yet.

You do have the right to remain silent, you know.

Only Americans...in America...not in the military...right now.

Supposedly he and his family invited Andruw Jones to live at their house when John and Andruw were in the minors together. If this is true I find it hard to believe he is as racist as the Pearlman article makes him out to be. White racists can hang out with and work with black people, but usually not invite them to move in.

I believe Rocker was quoted in the infamous SI article (among other quotes) as saying..."How the hell did they get into this country anyway..." Or something to that effect. It's funny, but if he was referring to the Al Qaeda 9-11 terrorists, and only that group, he would have found the only instance where that quote was more than acceptable.

Rocker might be a real racist, I doubt it, that word has lost a lot of its true meaning, he is certainly been very insensitive in the past.

I've observed just as much hatred directed at Rocker than what Rocker dished in that Pearlman article. Of course Pearlman is a hack, that we know.

Well you'd be surprised, unless you're defining racist as never doing anything nice for other "races" I guess, but I've known people who had very clear racist beliefs but made exceptions for particular individuals, it's really not super uncommon in my experiences. Sure not every Klan member has black friends but there was a whole book about some who did. (well that wasn't really what the book was about but it was a big part of it. But it never seemed to be a race thing with Rocker but a culture thing.

I know personally one confirmed racist, a white man. He voted for Obama.

I thought Rocker's name was more forgotten than sullied.

Rocker might be a real racist, I doubt it, that word has lost a lot of its true meaning, he is certainly been very insensitive in the past.

Don't know if he still is, but for a while (a year or so after he washed out of the Atlantic League) Rocker was dating a black woman.

Did everyone else immediately picture Rocker dictating his book to himself while hauling a jet ski behind his truck?

If there was a battle between John Rocker and Jeff Pearlman (which, in some ways, this is), who would you support?

#21 German was spoken on the shop floor of one of the major manufacturers (blanking on which one right now, one of the big film companies though) until 1938.

Why do right wingers all have the same misconception about what free speech means?

Why do left wingers all claim to know who "right wingers" are, and what they believe?

Remember: All generalizations are false.

I've always thought Rocker was treated unfairly by the media and the public, and that the SI article was borderline unethical to publish, arguably contributing to the dissolution of his career. I don't doubt that he is, in fact, a bigoted idiot, but in many ways, his case demonstrates how pathological public attitudes towards the problems of racism and discrimination are. I know people like to point to overbearing PC mores to give themselves cover for saying hateful crap and getting to feel like a victim at the same time, but I do think the real nature of the problem is obscured when instinctively reduced to a matter of "tolerance". People like John Rocker, the holders of unacceptable opinions, are cast as the ultimate agents of racism, of exclusion. It's theater, a public morality play that does two things: a) reaffirms the essential "goodness" of the observers and b) diverts attention from the fact that social exclusion, of all types, is structurally produced. It also exhibits no curiosity about how cultural grievances like Rocker's are also structurally produced. As far as we know, John Rocker doesn't go around beating up gay people or minorities in the streets, nor has he committed any other criminalized act of discrimination or bigotry. What does it matter what he thinks? He was a 25 year-old Georgia kid with a 100-mph fastball who said a lot of stupid sh*t he shouldn't have to a reporter, and he paid for it more than dearly. Publicly hateful speech should be called out for what it is, but the reflexive furor to which the total villainization of Rocker was attended, both in its intensity and its endurance, took on its own somewhat troubling characteristics.

But without the John Rocker saga, we wouldn't have the awesome Eastbound and Down (thanks #36), so what are you gonna do?

#21 German was spoken on the shop floor of one of the major manufacturers (blanking on which one right now, one of the big film companies though) until 1938.

The list of Milwaukee newspapers (1833-1957) is impressive. In the 1930s it appears that in Milwaukee one could get a paper in English, German, Polish, Czech ("Bohemian"), Hungarian, Slovenian, Yiddish, and Italian. Sadly, the last Norwegian paper died in 1897. It's only in the last 50 years that these papers have gone away. The Milwaukee Deutsche Zeitung even managed to survive as a daily until 1991.

My library holds something like 2000 "American ethnic newspapers", as librarians call them. Some of them are weekly or monthly activist papers dating from the Civil Rights era or later, and a lot are African-American dailies and weeklies, but the majority are dailies or weeklies in languages other than English, most founded between the Civil War and the Depression.

Supposedly he and his family invited Andruw Jones to live at their house when John and Andruw were in the minors together. If this is true I find it hard to believe he is as racist as the Pearlman article makes him out to be. White racists can hang out with and work with black people, but usually not invite them to move in.

I think this gets to the issue that trying to determine whether someone "is a racist" is pretty much pointless. All people are complicated, and getting into someone's head is next to impossible.

What we can say, with reasonable confidence, is that he said a whole bunch of bigoted stuff. Regardless of whether we identify Rocker as a racist or anti-gay bigot, he said racist and bigoted things.

Take it away, Jay Smooth.

The free exercise/establishment clauses might be the most misinterpreted part of the constitution by the public at-large, nudging out the 4th amendment protections, in my opinion. Amazing how many people think these rights protect you in any context, public or private.

I think the reason for this is the wild success of these amendments (1st more than the 4th). Most Americans have no concept that one could be put in jail simply for voicing an anti-government opinion. The framers knew that not only could you be jailed but your property stripped and your life taken for saying something like, "The king is insane."

We really have exactly the freedoms the framers wanted to protect, stunningly so, and, thus, when most people try to rationalize why you'd need the first amendment in the first place they can't really get it. So they end up thinking it's supposed to protect from others' censure, rather than the king's wrath.

The same is true, to a lesser extent, for the 4th amendment. Most of us* have never had much interaction with police or investigators and our police and investigators know that they at least have to look like they're obeying the law (and, though the exact number is arguable, most do). Thus, we don't really think, deep down inside, that we're at risk of unlawful search and seizure. So when the authorities want to violate the amendment to get a "terrorist" we think it's great, rather than a potential threat.

Again, the bill of rights has been so overwhelmingly successful** that we take it for granted. Hell, no one even knows what the third amendment is.

* Obviously not all.

** Obviously not all the time in all places for all peoples. I'm not saying it's anything like perfect, just very, very good.

There are towns in New Jersey where town council meetings were held in both German and English until the 1950s.

You do have the right to remain silent, you know.

I had the right to remain silent but I didn't have the ability, to quote Ron White.

Again, the bill of rights has been so overwhelmingly successful** that we take it for granted. Hell, no one even knows what the third amendment is.

My eldest is studying the amendments and he studied first, second, and fourth just this week. I wondered why they skipped the third and sat and thought about it. I was proud I remembered what it was before googling it (to check).

You troops are just going to have to sleep on the patio. I'm sorry, but it's my constitutional right.

Hell, no one even knows what the third amendment is.

Something to do with powdered wigs I think. Or requiring sideburns to be shaven. I forget.

Wow, Bitter Mouse, they actually skipped it?

I mean, we had to learn it with the teacher making the kind of jokes that Matt made. Which actually made it the easiest to learn, I think.

#37 - We used to play a variation on this game, and right here is where I'd choose "fork in the eye".

I think this gets to the issue that trying to determine whether someone "is a racist" is pretty much pointless. All people are complicated, and getting into someone's head is next to impossible.

Absolutely - it's not black and white, pun intended... Studs Terkel's Race: What Blacks and Whites Think and Feel About the American Obsession is an excellent case study and well worth the read (as are most of his collections).

Whatever Jeff Pearlman did or didn't do with the interview - I've heard enough of Rocker, and this article reinforces it - to feel comfortable in my own assessment of him as a class A #########. I have no power to, nor would I if I could, send to prison or some sort reeducation camp. But he's an individual, he's made statements I find running from distasteful to atrocious - so I'm perfectly fine and happy with my assessment of him as a #########. I'm also not going put $15 in his pocket to give him an opportunity to 'explain' himself further.

A link to my favorite Onion article is appropriate here.

What frustrates me about situations like these is that the public discussion usually just concerns whether the person should/shouldn't have made the comments, and what the consequences of the comments will be for him/her etc, but there usually is no substantial discussion of the actual content of the comments and what is inaccurate or harmful about them. So instead of people (including the scandalized person) learning what was wrong about the 'meat' of what they were saying, people just take away from the situation that making/not making the comments was the issue instead of the actual content of the statements.

I'm sorry, we're paying attention to John Rocker again because...why?

I'm sorry, we're paying attention to John Rocker again because...why?

He's releasing a book.

I'll probably buy his book. I think he was unfairly demonized, just like everyone else who has an opinion or thought that doesn't fall into the sanitized, homogenized, politically-correct version of western "truth".

The old maxim of sticks and stones is actually true you know. If you get overly offended and affronted by mere words, as an adult, you probably have some significant failings as a person.

I'm sorry, we're paying attention to John Rocker again because...why?

He's releasing a book.

The over/under on how long it'll take for that book to be available for $0.01 on Amazon? About 8 to 10 months, max. It's hard to imagine why any publisher would want to throw money down a rathole on an instant remainder like this.

I'll probably buy his book. I think he was unfairly demonized, just like everyone else who has an opinion or thought that doesn't fall into the sanitized, homogenized, politically-correct version of western "truth".

The old maxim of sticks and stones is actually true you know. If you get overly offended and affronted by mere words, as an adult, you probably have some significant failings as a person.

Ummm... This makes no logical sense.

All Rocker got in return was "mere words", too... so where's the tragedy?

So people offended by the mere words have significant failings -- but John Rocker, who didn't get beaten up, who wasn't tossed in prison, who wasn't deported to Elba, who wasn't even suspended or prevented from playing but merely started sucking so that he was more trouble than he was worth -- was treated unfairly?

Are "mere words" unidirectional?

who wasn't tossed in prison, who wasn't deported to Elba, who wasn't even suspended or prevented from playing but merely started sucking so that he was more trouble than he was worth -- was treated unfairly?

He was suspended, but otherwise correct.

Rocker's biggest career problem was that he stopped getting guys out. As for the demonization - he's probably parlayed that into more fame/money than it ever cost him, so I'll reserve my sympathies for the less bigoted among us. Whatever mistreatment he got from Pearlman, which I have no doubt was substantial, since it was Pearlman, he's amply demonstrated through the years that he can act like a classless douche without Jeffy's able hand.

He was suspended, but otherwise correct.

OK - my mistake... he lost 14 games w/o pay -- but then kept pitching for the Braves and also got shots in Cleveland and Texas before teams decided a reliever who walks 5-6-7 guys per 9 wasn't worth the trouble.

To give Rocker the benefit of the doubt (unearned) we should probably all keep our yaps shut when journalists are around. PR people make piles of money for a reason. He is probably no worse than many millions of guys who simply fire off poorly thought out opinions that are offensive or insensitive. It sounds as if he works with and befriends a diverse set of folks and if those folks like him and respect him, it speaks well of him.

But his public persona comes off terribly, which isn't all that surprising. He had one, limited, skill. There is no reason to think he wouldn't be like any joe-hillbilly-hick when talking about life, the universe and everything. Which is the biggest reason not to buy his book. What are you likely to learn that will be of any help to you?

The one thing that got me is why anyone cared so much what he said in the first place. I think it is a troubling sign that we give celebrity opinion so much weight, for good or ill.

Wow, Bitter Mouse, they actually skipped it?

They were covering one a day in class and the listed ones for this week were 1, 2, & 4. They might have mentioned it in passing I suppose. I'll ask him directly. He was able to describe 1 & 2 pretty well though (the ones he had covered).

The one thing that got me is why anyone cared so much what he said in the first place. I think it is a troubling sign that we give celebrity opinion so much weight, for good or ill.

Not to mention how low the "celebrity" bar has been set in the first place.

I wonder how many people had the slightest idea who John Rocker was before that interview was published. Of those, how many outside Atlanta could tell you anything more than "I think he's a pitcher for the Braves"?

I'd guess the answer might be maybe a few million baseball fans, mostly of the hardcore variety who lived in one of the other NL East cities. I know that I'd never heard about him before that, or if I had, it was in one ear and out the other. I suppose he must have pitched in the 1999 World Series against the Yanks, but if he did, it mustn't have meant too much one way or the other.

But after that SI interview had been published? By the time that tirade of his had been spread onto every news broadcast and blog from here to China, Rocker was far better known worldwide than Greg Maddux or Chipper Jones. Even my wife, who barely can name 5 ballplayers in history**, somehow heard about Rocker and what he had to say about that #7 train. Cynical as it may seem to say it, if you want to grab the attention of the treasured "casual fan", you can think of few more efficient ways of doing it than having a truly Moron Moment. Just ask Al Campanis.

** Jeter, Ripken, possibly Babe Ruth, and if you give her a few minutes she'll think of the others

Too bad Rocker isn't HOF eligible so that we could revisit this topic every year.

(fighting Lassus for the fork....)

I am actually impressed with myself that I remembered #3. The fact that's it's obscure helped. Don't ask me 5-10!

Don't ask me 5-10!

Well, you didn't have to profess your ignorance of 5.

#21 German was spoken on the shop floor of one of the major manufacturers (blanking on which one right now, one of the big film companies though) until 1938.

Disney.