I first read the author's name as "Joe Torre" and thought that this would be an interesting read.

Not that I disagree with the author in principle but in the grand scheme of things, this is a super minor annoyance.

Agreed it's only a minor annoyance but it turns my stomach a little the A's have to "honor" him. Can't we just invite, say, Keith Foulke back for that game and honor him instead? Or Doug Jennings? Or Steve McCatty? Or, and this is my dream, Dwayne Murphy. Retire Murph's number before Jeter's last game at the Coliseum!

I'd like to see each of the other 29 teams honour a beloved former player along with/instead of Saint Jetes.
For the Jays I'd suggest Tony Fernandez.

I'd at least like to see a team donate something to charity in honor of the player. I mean, Jeter's made a bazillion dollars in baseball and endorsements. Does he really need to be given a car?

Does he really need to be given a car?

I remember when Kareem was in his last year and we had to watch the gift ceremony before every game. Doug Moe said it best (paraphrasing) "I don't know why we have to give this guy goodbye gifts when he was a #### to everybody his entire career.". Auerbach got a pretty good dig in by giving him a framed section of parquet flooring as a gift. The Red Sox should do the same thing to Jeter. They should give him one of those old trough urinals they had removed from the men's rooms when they renovated.

I don't know which is more sickening and stupid. People complaining about farewell tours, or people voting Jack Morris for the hall of fame, or people that refuse to acknowledge amps as PED's...

I'd like to see each of the other 29 teams honour a beloved former player along with/instead of Saint Jetes.
For the Jays I'd suggest Tony Fernandez.

I'm hoping the Jays will bring in Ken Huckaby to present Jeter's gift.

I'd at least like to see a team donate something to charity in honor of the player.

Jeter has a foundation that actually does stuff, rather than just employ relatives. Presumably it will be the beneficiary of any cash gifts. No one is asking the haters to chip in.

If the fans don't like these ceremonies, they could skip the game, but all the evidence shows the opposite - tickets are much in demand.

If the fans don't like these ceremonies, they could skip the game,

Or just stay away from your seat until the ceremony is over, sort of like the way many of us don't tune into the Super Bowl until 30 seconds before the kickoff.

I'm with the Yank fans (and cfb) here. The over-the-top complaints about baseball fans and teams honoring great baseball players who are leaving the game is one of the more bizarre things I've seen. It's as if guys like Torres long for the days of Bud anti-marketing the sport.

Oh, and the trend of honoring retiring players goes back quite a long ways. What's new is the recent spate (Chipper, Mo and Jeter in successive years), of baseball players announcing their retirements well before playing their final game. Baseball has historically decided when players are retired, not the other way around.

If the fans don't like these ceremonies, they could skip the game, but all the evidence shows the opposite - tickets are much in demand.

Do you have the numbers? I'm actually curious if "Jeter Day" at J. Random Ballpark does better or worse than a typical game where the Yankees are visiting. We probably have to throw out the Astros, since it was their home opener, but I'd be happy to look at the other evidence you have.

SoSH makes an excellent point. The tradition of "days" for players near the end of a career, with gifts & speeches & stuff, is ancient and not historically limited to superstars, either. The years when teams stopped doing this might be the aberration.

The best farewell tour was Rickey Henderson's, when he decided to play for every team in MLB. And then in the Indy leagues.

You do realize it's not personal; it's business. I don't wish anything bad for Derek Jeter the human being. But as far as I'm concerned, everyone who does not play for the New York Mets can suck a tailpipe. I don't care if it's the most wonderful human being alive. If the Mets are about to try to defeat a team, I don't want them honoring that team's players.

I don't doubt that this author and I am in the minority on this. If you think of all the constituencies involved, it pleases most of them. Many of the opposing players no doubt did grow up idolizing Jeter, and do want to pay him homage -- and that, I think, is the most genuine part of all this. And the opposing fans have, in fact, been convinced by MLB, ESPN, etc. that the "story of baseball" is far more about the Yankees and Red Sox than it is about their own team. They now accept that Yankee and Red Sox players are inherently more important than the ones they watch every day, pay money to see, root for, and care about. That's something I find really sad and frustrating. But anyway, since the fans do feel that way, naturally the front office will be willing to take their money.

Then once you start doing it, it's like "God Bless America." Who needs to put up with the nonsense battle that would result from refusing to participate? It's easier to go along and get along.

The whole thing is especially silly to me when, if you want baseball as a whole to honor Derek Jeter, all you have to do is hang in there five years. Then drive up to Cooperstown, New York. I promise you that he will be there, and that Major League Baseball will officially acknowledge that he is one of the greatest players in the history of baseball. That's why we do that.

I forget if Yaz had a farewell tour, but they honored him at his last game and he is the first player I can recall that had that happen to him.

If the Mets are about to try to defeat a team, I don't want them honoring that team's players.

This. Honor Jeter next year.

I like to think that there's a room somewhere in Jeter's house that's just absolutely full to bursting with commemorative rocking chairs.

And the opposing fans have, in fact, been convinced by MLB, ESPN, etc. that the "story of baseball" is far more about the Yankees and Red Sox than it is about their own team. They now accept that Yankee and Red Sox players are inherently more important than the ones they watch every day, pay money to see, root for, and care about. That's something I find really sad and frustrating. But anyway, since the fans do feel that way, naturally the front office will be willing to take their money.

What was particularly impressive was how MLB, ESPN were so cleverly anticipating the Jeter and Mariano retirement tours that they had teams honor Chipper Jones as a trial run. And Cal Ripken before that.

I guess it's a coincidence that it's happened 3 times in 3 years, after 0 times in the previous... 20 years?

But it does seem kind of pathetic. Thank you for playing 5 games in our stadium in your amazing career, Jeter! Love, Astros.

You do realize it's not personal; it's business. I don't wish anything bad for Derek Jeter the human being. But as far as I'm concerned, everyone who does not play for the New York Mets can suck a tailpipe. I don't care if it's the most wonderful human being alive. If the Mets are about to try to defeat a team, I don't want them honoring that team's players.

I don't doubt that this author and I am in the minority on this. If you think of all the constituencies involved, it pleases most of them.

Actually, this would seem to indicate that it is personal, and not business.

I guess it's a coincidence that it's happened 3 times in 3 years, after 0 times in the previous... 20 years?

It's a coincidence that three HoF-worthy, one-team players have announced their retirements well before season's end in the last three years. The only others I can remember doing so in the last 20 were Cal Ripken, who was feted, and Tony Gwynn, who specifically asked not to be.

But it does seem kind of pathetic. Thank you for playing 5 games in our stadium in your amazing career, Jeter! Love, Astros.

Even though their team was in the NL, I'm sure there were Astros fans who were aware of Jeter before 2013.

I guess it's a coincidence that it's happened 3 times in 3 years, after 0 times in the previous... 20 years?

Cal Ripken retired in 2001.

Oh, and the trend of honoring retiring players goes back quite a long ways. What's new is the recent spate (Chipper, Mo and Jeter in successive years), of baseball players announcing their retirements well before playing their final game. Baseball has historically decided when players are retired, not the other way around.

Another tradition that's vanished with the advent of megacontracts is the "Day" that used to be given to a home team's especially favored player. I don't know whether Bill Veeck invented the idea, but by the 50's it was common in nearly every city. The Senators had "Days" for Eddie Yost and Roy Sievers, the Orioles for Brooks Robinson, and so on. Usually the gifts were donated by either local businesses or fans, and they'd run from a new car on the high end to items like a power mower on the low end. They nearly always paid off for the club in the form of higher attendance, but of course the idea of having a "Day" for a visiting player never would have even been considered.

Veeck also had one other wildly popular "Day", in honor of a fan named Joe Earley, after Earley had written him to protest that Veeck had honored everyone except the "average Joe". It was one of the many ways that Veeck distinguished himself from the run-of-the-mill stuffed shirts who then and now run the game.

Actually, this would seems to indicate that it is personal, and not business.

Well, I meant that I sports-hate everyone who is not a Met, so that's not "personal" against Jeter... and I don't real-life-hate anybody¹, so that's not "personal" against him either.

I think comparing the amount of attention Chipper got to what the two Yankees are getting speaks for itself. But anyway, if (just to give a potential example, it may not be the right one, I dunno -- but I think things like this are happening) Rockies fans are more eager to honor Derek Jeter than they are to honor Todd Helton, that is a truly sad state of affairs. I suppose it means the Rockies should in fact have Derek Jeter Day, but, jeezy creezy.

¹ I mean, maybe Elijah Dukes and the like, but, you know.

Well, I meant that I sports-hate everyone who is not a Met, so that's not "personal" against Jeter...

And I just meant that trying your best to defeat your opponent is a small part of the business of baseball. And besides, I seriously doubt that any opposing player will be giving a lesser effort against the Yankees just because it's Derek Jeter Day.

Even though their team was in the NL, I'm sure there were Astros fans who were aware of Jeter before 2013.

There are NFL fans who have heard of Derek Jeter, so I guess we should have a Jeter celebration at every football game. Oh, and there are people who eat breakfast who have heard of Derek Jeter, so we should start every morning genuflecting in his direction.

...okay, I wanted to be just a little bit sarcastic, but I think it got away from me there.

I think genuflecting is where it got away from you. But Denny's should definitely start a Derek Jeter farewell tour promotion with big greasy breakfast specials for two bucks.

But Denny's should definitely start a Derek Jeter farewell tour promotion with big greasy breakfast specials for two bucks.

served in a gift basket

I think comparing the amount of attention Chipper got to what the two Yankees are getting speaks for itself.

It tells me he wasn't quite as well-regarded as those two. He also didn't get as much attention as Cal Ripken, for the very same reason.

There are NFL fans who have heard of Derek Jeter, so I guess we should have a Jeter celebration at every football game.

And I'll stand by my contention that baseball fans saying fare thee well to great baseball players is a very odd thing to be bothered by.

No one is obligated to watch the ceremonies, attend the games, etc. But if folks like Torres want to get their personal Joey B on by railing against these things they can figuratively not click on, I guess they can knock themselves out. Me, I'll continue to be perplexed at the level of angst it causes.

baseball fans saying fare thee well to great baseball players

Astros fans barely even got to say hello before they said goodbye.

Wait, actually, wasn't the farewell ceremony before the first game? So most of the fans in attendance watched a farewell ceremony for a player they'd never seen live, and then watched him play for the first time.

Me, I'll continue to be perplexed at the level of angst it causes.

1) You exaggerate the level of angst, because you lump all objections to it into the Torres-style apocalyptic complaining.
2) It's been explained to you several times. If you're still legitimately confused by it, that should worry you.

You exaggerate the level of angst, because you lump all objections to it into the Torres-style apocalyptic complaining.

No, I realize some people are merely snarking on it, which is fine. But plenty of others are engaged in Torres-level complaining. And none of the defenses for that are remotely compelling (Well, DA's I hate everybody my team is playing against is, if not compelling, at least logical).

Astros fans barely even got to say hello before they said goodbye.

Wait, actually, wasn't the farewell ceremony before the first game? So most of the fans in attendance watched a farewell ceremony for a player they'd never seen live, and then watched him play for the first time.

And my point is, they don't need to have seen him play live to have followed his career these past 19 years. That even without a long history of live appearances in their presence, that some want to give Jeter a send-off doesn't strike me as unusual.

It tells me he wasn't quite as well-regarded as those two. He also didn't get as much attention as Cal Ripken, for the very same reason.

Spoken like someone comfortably inside the Northeast Corridor.

Spoken like someone comfortably inside the Northeast Corridor.

Well, you'd be wrong in assuming that.

C'mon. Chipper was never the level of superstar that Jeter or Ripken was (even if he might have been their equals, or better, on the field), and certainly wasn't seen in the same light as Rivera, unless Mo had his own Hooters waitress-collecting past I'm unaware of. This really isn't arguable (OK, Sam might argue it).

C'mon. Chipper was never the level of superstar that Jeter or Ripken was (even if he might have been their equals, or better, on the field), and certainly wasn't seen in the same light as Rivera, unless Mo had his own Hooters waitress-collecting past I'm unaware of. This really isn't arguable (OK, Sam might argue it).

Did it ever occur to you that Jones, who may have been better at his position than anyone not named Schmidt, was "never the level of superstar" because he ... didn't play for a team inside the Northeast Corridor?

Did it ever occur to you that Jones, who may have been better at his position than anyone not named Schmidt, was "never the level of superstar" because he ... didn't play for a team in the Northeast Corridor?

He wasn't as big a superstar as Barry Bonds, Albert Pujols, George Brett, Sammy Sosa*, Mark McGwire, or his long-time teammate Greg Maddux, none of whom played in the northeast corridor** either.

He was a third baseman, a historically under appreciated position. He was very good at everything, but other than beating the #### out of the Mets, he wasn't really known for anything in specific (which tends to lead to further under appreciation). His one World Series victory came in his rookie season (on a team filled with existing stars that had played in the two most recent World Series before he got there), then his club became a playoff disappointment and playoff absentee.

Jeter's was the captain of a team that won five World Series. Ripken broke the record for most consecutive games. Neither ESPN nor geography had anything to do with either of those things.

And, of course, your initial reference to the dreaded Northeast Corridor was not about where Chipper played vs. Jetes and Cal, but where I was located. So I'm not even sure how 34 relates to 32.

* Well, Sammy did, but he was already into his anti-hero status by the time he got there.

** I"m sure Vlad is writing his rebuttal as we speak.

I forget if Yaz had a farewell tour, but they honored him at his last game and he is the first player I can recall that had that happen to him.

He did.

Greg Maddux

I have a hard time believing that 355-game winner Maddux would have received even 1/10th of the attention that failed starter Rivera got last year.

And, of course, your initial reference to the dreaded Northeast Corridor was not about where Chipper played vs. Jetes and Cal, but where I was located. So I'm not even sure how 34 relates to 32.

I was just as much referring to your state of mind as physical location.

I have a hard time believing that 355-game winner Maddux would have received even 1/10th of the attention that failed starter Rivera got last year.

Clearly I'm the biased one.

But at least you've done the math.

Rivera has always been revered in a way most other ballplayers haven't been. Some of it is his due (his visits to the bowels of stadia last year to meet the behind-the-scenes people was one of the coolest thing I've seen a ballplayer do), and some of it projection. And the latter can backfire (one of the last guys to be similarly universally admired, and also not a Nor'easterner, was Kirby).

If Maddux had opted to pre-announce his final season, I have no doubt he would have gotten a very nice send-off around the league. It might have been curtailed somewhat because of his late-career vagabond status. (Quick quiz: where was his last stop?) These things work best for Hall-worthy players associated with one team (which is why Chipper did get one whereas someone with a similar level of stardom/accomplishment might not have - say a Vlad Guerrero type).

I was just as much referring to your state of mind as physical location.

Neither my state of mind nor my location is related to whether Chipper Jones' location has suppressed his stardom.

I have a hard time believing that 355-game winner Maddux would have received even 1/10th of the attention that failed starter Rivera got last year.

It's hard to have a farewell tour if you don't, you know, announce that you're retiring. It also would get kind of awkward when you get traded in the middle of your final season.

And, BTW, it is absolutely freaking ridiculous to call someone who had a grand total of ten major league starts at the beginning of his career a failed starter It's like calling Steve Carlton a failed reliever.

I have a hard time believing that 355-game winner Maddux would have received even 1/10th of the attention that failed starter Rivera got last year.

It's hard to have a farewell tour if you don't, you know, announce that you're retiring. It also would get kind of awkward when you get traded in the middle of your final season.

Someone isn't familiar with the conditional tense.

Oh, and Mike Piazza just called to say that he wasn't a failed first baseman.

The odd thing about this series of three players in three years is that I don't know why it should be essential to be a one-team player. Greg Maddux certainly could have had a retirement genuflection tour, despite playing for the Dodgers or Padres or whoever his last season was with.

It's a simple domino effect. Some team was the first to do it, and then every other team thinks they need to else they be viewed as "classless." The worst thing to be viewed as these days, apparently.

I have a hard time believing that 355-game winner Maddux would have received even 1/10th of the attention that failed starter Rivera got last year.

If he would have been still with the Braves uninterupted since his arrival to the team and made the announcement before the season started, he would have had a pretty noticeable going away.

The factors that help determine how "big" one of these things is 1. Identified with the team that you are retiring with 2. historical significance 3. lack of controversy 4. early announcement. 5. which team you did play for (regardless of what people on here are saying, an Ortiz or Jeter retirement is going to be bigger than a Chipper or Biggio retirement simply because of their media exposure)

Ozzie Smith had a pretty good size one of these tours, even though he didn't announce his retirement until June or so of that year.

Obviously it's bigger news today, because of central sports network, and because we have a news aggregate like BBTF to focus on these articles.

Maddux was traded from the Padres to the Dodgers during his last season. That would probably have messed with a theoretical goodbye tour.

I have a hard time believing that 355-game winner Maddux would have received even 1/10th of the attention that failed starter Rivera got last year.

This is absolutely the most ridiculous thing you could say. Greg Maddux would have been carried around the country on the shoulders of tiny children had he announced his final season. It's probably best if you shut the hell up before digging the hole even deeper.

Someone isn't familiar with the conditional tense.

Whoops, too late.

Don't condescend to people who have you out-smarted. It's unseemly.

Tony Gwynn, who specifically asked not to be.

Hm... I coulda sworn there was a "Tony Gwynn Day" during his final appearance at Turner Field.

The odd thing about this series of three players in three years is that I don't know why it should be essential to be a one-team player. Greg Maddux certainly could have had a retirement genuflection tour, despite playing for the Dodgers or Padres or whoever his last season was with.

It's not essential, but it figures into how big of a deal it becomes. The Cardinals did celebrate Florida Marlin Andre Dawson in his last game in St Louis, but it was a more subdued affair, than it would have been if it was Expo/Cub Andre Dawson. The great players are identified with their team for the most part, and the fans attach the emotional content to what the team did with that player.

Did it ever occur to you that Jones, who may have been better at his position than anyone not named Schmidt, was "never the level of superstar" because he ... didn't play for a team inside the Northeast Corridor?

If Chipper Jones was under-appreciated, it was probably because his team under-performed in the playoffs - although Chipper was a pretty good postseason player. Efforts for losing teams tend to get lost in the collective memories. Jeter & Rivera don't have that problem.

You do realize it's not personal; it's business. I don't wish anything bad for Derek Jeter the human being.

I don't understand; he's a Yankee, not a human being.

I'd prefer if these departing guys did stuff like Cap Anson did:

"The Colts finished a surprising second in 1890 and `91, but Anson had now declined noticeably, 1891 was his first professional season under .300 (.291). On September 4 of that year, in response to a particularly scathing newspaper article denigrating his age, Anson took the field in Chicago wearing a long white wig and white stage whiskers, to the delight of all. Gratified by the response, Anson wore his costume the entire game."

http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2007/2/17/5515/90785

It's not the act that rankles, it's the scale.

It would be fine & proper to have the announcer read a brief statement of tribute 5 minutes before the National Anthem, maybe throw in a 60 second montage on the diamond vision and call it done. That I could get behind. But what happens now is almost North Korean in its excess of fawning.

Oh, and Mike Piazza just called to say that he wasn't a failed Marlin.

I think this is more appealing to talk about.

No one is obligated to watch the ceremonies, attend the games, etc.

Mini-boycotts of individual games are way less likely to have as much effect as exaggerated mocking of the forced benevolence for visiting players. The exaggerated mocking can possibly change the public discourse so that the backlash has as much power to shape teams' behaviors as the pressure to be "classy" described in #42.

It's not the act that rankles, it's the scale.

It would be fine & proper to have the announcer read a brief statement of tribute 5 minutes before the National Anthem, maybe throw in a 60 second montage on the diamond vision and call it done. That I could get behind. But what happens now is almost North Korean in its excess of fawning.

Yes. Exactly.

described in #42.

The fact that BTF has steadfastly refused to retire #42 as a post number is a shocking slap to the face of Mariano Rivera. And that other guy, too.

Sickening. . .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s15JiTvyM9U

It's not the act that rankles, it's the scale.

It would be fine & proper to have the announcer read a brief statement of tribute 5 minutes before the National Anthem, maybe throw in a 60 second montage on the diamond vision and call it done. That I could get behind. But what happens now is almost North Korean in its excess of fawning.


Yes. Exactly.

Basically, those of us in this camp, like Kramer, don't want to have to wear the ribbon and the rest of you people are the organizers.

Basically, those of us in this camp, like Kramer, don't want to have to wear the ribbon and the rest of you people are the organizers.

The basic difference is no one's actually making you guys wear the ribbon.

If you had to give Derek Jeter a gift, I think that would be going too far. But knowing that someone else is giving him a gift is not quite the same thing.