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Thursday, June 19, 2008

J.P. Ricciardi trashes Adam Dunn on radio show

What is there left to say…

“Do you know the guy doesn’t really like baseball that much?” Ricciardi said to the caller. “Do you know the guy doesn’t have a passion to play the game that much? How much do you know about the player?

“There’s a reason why you’re attracted to some players and there’s a reason why you’re not attracted to some players. I don’t think you’d be very happy if we brought Adam Dunn here …

“We’ve done our homework on guys like Adam Dunn and there’s a reason why we don’t want Adam Dunn. I don’t want to get into specifics.”

...“He’s a lifetime .230, .240 hitter that strikes out a ton and hits home runs,” Ricciardi said.

“Yes, he hits home runs, which none of the Toronto Blue Jays are doing,” the caller replied.

That retort triggered Ricciardi’s shot at Dunn as a player who “doesn’t really like baseball that much.”

Repoz Posted: June 19, 2008 at 10:54 AM | 106 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: blue jays, reds

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   1. Avoid Running At All Times- S. Paige Posted: June 19, 2008 at 11:04 AM (#2825685)
This explains why my 10 year old nephew was invited to try out for the Jays this past March. Everyone says he's the biggest fan of baseball there is!
   2. 6 - 4 - 3 Posted: June 19, 2008 at 11:05 AM (#2825686)
Ricciardi really needs to be put out of his misery. It's pretty clear that he doesn't enjoy his job much either--and he's not very good at it regardless.

Also, hypersensitive, aloof jackasses really shouldn't do call-in shows. Is this a regular thing up in Toronto?
   3. Steve Parris, Je t'aime Posted: June 19, 2008 at 11:29 AM (#2825690)
“Do you know the guy doesn’t really like baseball that much?” Ricciardi said to the caller


Do you, JP?
   4. Blackadder Posted: June 19, 2008 at 11:32 AM (#2825691)
A serious question: who cares how much the guy likes baseball? I mean, unless you think he is going to prematurely retire or something, as long as he produces does it really matter how much he is enjoying himself?
   5. bunyon Posted: June 19, 2008 at 11:33 AM (#2825692)
Well, no one should ever ask, "Are you the biggest idiot, ever?" around here. The clear answer to that question is, "No, J.P. Ricciardi is."
   6. bunyon Posted: June 19, 2008 at 11:36 AM (#2825695)
Well, I care as a fan. I'd rather root for guys who like ths sport I like. I also think an argument can be made that a player who enjoys the game will take better care of his skills, work harder, etc.

However, with that said, you have a good point. I'd rather have Adam Dunn's not enjoying putting up his numbers than some scrub who loves the game putting up crappy numbers. Give me a choice between two players with roughly equal stats and one loves the game and one doesn't, I take the one who enjoys it. But that calculation should come after talent evaluation.

But I really don't think a GM should be talking about this subject in public. I don't think a GM should negatively discuss any player anywhere in public. You make your statement by not signing the guy.
   7. Josh Posted: June 19, 2008 at 11:48 AM (#2825698)
I can understand any manager caring about the makeup of the team - whether it is a baseball team, a team of IBankers who work 18 hours together, a team of sales folks who travel together, or any other team. It is a relevant concern. (And Dunn has other negatives - e.g., defense and baserunner - that make his makeup more important than it would be for a simply 900 OPS player.)

I can't understand why Ricciardi would state this about Dunn in public. That was just dumb.
   8. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: June 19, 2008 at 11:49 AM (#2825699)
But I really don't think a GM should be talking about this subject in public. I don't think a GM should negatively discuss any player anywhere in public. You make your statement by not signing the guy.

Yeah. I'm thinking, like Bavasi with his "dumbass" comment, J.P. is on his way out and doesn't care anymore abnout decorum. Otherwise, he just screwed the pooch.
   9. Rally Posted: June 19, 2008 at 11:52 AM (#2825702)
Yeah. If he were to say, "I'd love to sign Adam Dunn" while he's still under contract with the Reds, wouldn't that be tampering? The players union could view this as an action to depress Dunn's market value. Very unprofessional.
   10. bunyon Posted: June 19, 2008 at 11:54 AM (#2825703)
Exactly. You say something vague and non-commital. Folks can read into it anything they want.

He needs some Crash Davis tutorial.
   11. Walt Davis Posted: June 19, 2008 at 11:58 AM (#2825705)
Y'know, I'm starting to think it might be this ... Ricciardi is Beane's protege. But he resents this somewhat (pretty common). Everyone expects him to be Beane II but he wants to make his own mark, go his own way. Actually does pretty well against Beane in a couple trades, thinks he's smarter than the master, gets full of himself.

Anyway, as much grief as we give him it's probably a bit more than he deserves. He puts together decent teams in a tough division. Bland as hell, seemingly no upside, overpriced teams so not good -- but not near the Littlefield/Bavasi end of the spectrum.

But yeah, his time in Toronto should finish and no reason anybody else should give him a GM job.
   12. Steve Parris, Je t'aime Posted: June 19, 2008 at 12:02 PM (#2825706)
Also, let's put to rest the notion that Adam Dunn has makeup problems. Despite a history of nagging injuries, including knee surgery that he put off at the end of last year, the guy has been very durable. He's not a burner or a stellar outfielder because he's 6'6" with a large frame, not because he doesn't try. If he had makeup problems Dusty or one of his six former managers would have said something by now.
   13. Paul D(uda) Posted: June 19, 2008 at 12:04 PM (#2825707)
Also, hypersensitive, aloof jackasses really shouldn't do call-in shows. Is this a regular thing up in Toronto?

He does it every Wednesday.
   14. J.C. Bradbury Posted: June 19, 2008 at 12:04 PM (#2825708)
So, JP Ricciardi is Anakin Skywalker and Beane is Obi-Wan Kanobi.

He's more machine than man now, twisted and evil.
   15. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: June 19, 2008 at 12:08 PM (#2825710)
So, JP Ricciardi is Anakin Skywalker and Beane is Obi-Wan Kanobi.

He's more machine than man now, twisted and evil.


Beane is much smoother with the media than his acolytes, that's for sure.
   16. The Bones McCoy of THT Posted: June 19, 2008 at 12:11 PM (#2825711)
The knot goes behind the left ear--correct? I hope the rope has enough slack--I've suffered enough as it is.

Best Regards

John
   17. Slinger Francisco Barrios (Dr. Memory) Posted: June 19, 2008 at 12:27 PM (#2825719)
Beane is much smoother with the media than his acolytes, that's for sure.

Plus Ricciardi hasn't written a book about how you have to have a team of John Jahas.
   18. andrewreinsch Posted: June 19, 2008 at 12:30 PM (#2825723)
Exactly. You say something vague and non-commital. Folks can read into it anything they want.

When Terry Ryan was running things in Minnesota, his weekly KFAN call-in time was usually 25-30 minutes of "It's not appropriate for me to talk about specific players" when he was inevitably asked about trading for somebody. He often had to repeat it to the same caller, so I guess it wasn't entirely the conversation shut-down he hoped for, but his consistency had a certain elegance.
   19. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: June 19, 2008 at 12:41 PM (#2825729)
But I really don't think a GM should be talking about this subject in public. I don't think a GM should negatively discuss any player anywhere in public. You make your statement by not signing the guy.

wouldn't his statements constitute negative tampering?

(antitampering?)

is that allowed in MLB?
   20. Twoey Guillen Posted: June 19, 2008 at 12:44 PM (#2825733)
It's been known for years that Adam Dunn "doesn't like baseball that much." That's not trashing him, it's just a fact.

Dunn can tell you the name of the equipment guy at the University of Texas, because the guy ships him UT workout gear. He can't tell you who's leading the American League West. "Dunner is a football guy stuck in a baseball guy's uniform,'' said Sean Casey. "He wouldn't know who the top three hitters are in the American League.''

"No idea,'' Dunn said. "Who are they?''

Casey knew: Ichiro, Melvin Mora and Pudge Rodriguez.

"Fascinating,'' Dunn said.

You don't have to be a student of the game to be a student of your game. When he was a Red, many uniforms and re-invented lifetimes ago, Deion Sanders said he didn't even like baseball. Prime Time said baseball was "boring.'' Dunn doesn't watch any games in which he's not involved.

"Do you go home and watch sportswriters? I do this every single day. I don't want to go home and watch it more,'' Dunn said.
   21. Boileryard Posted: June 19, 2008 at 12:52 PM (#2825737)
The audio of the entire radio show can be found here (scroll down to the bottom of the blog entry). The start of the Adam Dunn question is at 21:15.

I was listening to the show last night. I think J.P. was just getting frustrated with some of the questions and couldn't take it anymore when the caller inquired about Adam Dunn. Still, it was probably an ill-advised rant by J.P.
   22. Eric J. Seidman Posted: June 19, 2008 at 12:54 PM (#2825739)
Jeff Kent couldn't/can't stand baseball, either, yet he had a very productive career. But, I guess in his prime he couldn't have helped the team because they need guys who love the game.
   23. Slinger Francisco Barrios (Dr. Memory) Posted: June 19, 2008 at 12:56 PM (#2825741)
"He wouldn't know who the top three hitters are in the American League."

"No idea," Dunn said. "Who are they?"

Casey knew: Ichiro, Melvin Mora and Pudge Rodriguez.

"Fascinating," Dunn said.


Love the sarcasm.
   24. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: June 19, 2008 at 12:58 PM (#2825743)
I was listening to the show last night. I think J.P. was just getting frustrated with some of the questions and couldn't take it anymore when the caller inquired about Adam Dunn. Still, it was probably an ill-advised rant by J.P.

I just assumed this is what happened. I get frustrated by this crap, too, as I talk a lot of baseball with people who get their info from Mike and the Mad Dog or Michael Kay. The one advantage I have that J.P. doesn't, is that nobody gives a #### what I say.
   25. Rally Posted: June 19, 2008 at 01:01 PM (#2825744)
He puts together decent teams in a tough division. Bland as hell, seemingly no upside, overpriced teams so not good


If this is a defense of J.P., exactly why was Gord Ash fired?
   26. Rally Posted: June 19, 2008 at 01:03 PM (#2825746)
"you have to have a team of John Jahas"

If we're in Star Wars references, shouldn't that be a team of John Jawas?
   27. Cowboy Popup Posted: June 19, 2008 at 01:05 PM (#2825748)
I eagerly await Dunn's response.
   28. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: June 19, 2008 at 01:13 PM (#2825751)
Do you think Dunn even knows who JP is?
   29. Fred Garvin is dead to Mug Posted: June 19, 2008 at 01:16 PM (#2825755)
But I really don't think a GM should be talking about this subject in public. I don't think a GM should negatively discuss any player anywhere in public. You make your statement by not signing the guy.

No kidding. When Hank Steinbrenner puts down the bottle of STFU juice, he should pour some for Ricciardi.
   30. Law Boy Posted: June 19, 2008 at 01:40 PM (#2825765)
No kidding. When Hank Steinbrenner puts down the bottle of STFU juice, he should pour some for Ricciardi.

You're obsessed.
   31. Fred Garvin is dead to Mug Posted: June 19, 2008 at 01:43 PM (#2825767)
I am, but to which one are you referring?
   32. 185/456(GGC) Posted: June 19, 2008 at 01:45 PM (#2825768)
This STFU juice sounds like it's non-alcoholic.
   33. pyrite Posted: June 19, 2008 at 01:54 PM (#2825774)
My prepared remarks for Dunn would be:

Dunn: Well, how are the Blue Jays doing?

Reporter: Last place.

Dunn: Doesn't sound like JP really likes winning that much.
   34. Steve Parris, Je t'aime Posted: June 19, 2008 at 02:04 PM (#2825778)
It's been known for years that Adam Dunn "doesn't like baseball that much." That's not trashing him, it's just a fact.

There's nothing in your quote that shows Adam Dunn doesn't like baseball. So he doesn't follow the standings and the batting leaders of the league he doesn't play in. So he likes football, too. So what. I'm sure plenty of other players also fit this description.

Of course, the rest of JP's quote was that Dunn "doesn’t have a passion to play the game that much." In other words, he's not trying. That's horseshit.
   35. KingKaufman Posted: June 19, 2008 at 02:06 PM (#2825781)
The recent Sports Illustrated cover piece about Josh Hamilton mentioned that he isn't a fan of the game and finds it boring. I think this is actually a lot more common than most fans would think if they ever gave it much thought, which why would they.
   36. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: June 19, 2008 at 02:07 PM (#2825782)
Do you think Dunn even knows who JP is?

Do you think he knows who the Blue Jays are?

I said it before and I'll say it again - JP is trying to get fired a la Peter from "Office Space." I expect him to get a three year contract extension any day now.
   37. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: June 19, 2008 at 02:08 PM (#2825783)
The recent Sports Illustrated cover piece about Josh Hamilton mentioned that he isn't a fan of the game and finds it boring. I think this is actually a lot more common than most fans would think if they ever gave it much thought, which why would they.

I knew the top player on the college I attended, a guy that had been drafted three times. He hated watching baseball. He was around it so much, I guess he got tired of it. Loved watching football or "pro-wrestling", but didn't follow the majors all that much.
   38. 185/456(GGC) Posted: June 19, 2008 at 02:08 PM (#2825784)
I'm not really a fan of the stock market, nor do I really try hard at my job.
   39. J.C. Bradbury Posted: June 19, 2008 at 02:11 PM (#2825786)
I said it before and I'll say it again - JP is trying to get fired a la Peter from "Office Space." I expect him to get a three year contract extension any day now.


More like George Costanza. He should try dragging a World Series trophy around the parking lot.
   40. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: June 19, 2008 at 02:13 PM (#2825789)
Post 35:

Agreed that there is a difference between having a passion to play and having interests outside of baseball.

What JP "may" be referring to, though I doubt it since he doesn't seem to have a reputation for due diligence, is that the Adam Dunn of a few years ago, NOT NOW, but a few years past worked VERY hard in generating a persona that he played baseball but really CARED about other things.

I read interviews where Adam spoke at length of his love of college football.

I read interviews where Adam spoke at length of his love of fishing.

I read interviews where Adam spoke of how "yeah he played baseball but he really preferred watching fishing shows while eating Doritos".

And along the way Adam's defense went into the tank and he got heavy.

NOW TO HIS CREDIT after the disasterous finish to the 2006 season where his bat went MIA the last two months and several times he all but fell down in the outfield Adam lost about 15-20 lbs that offseason and since then has been a more consistent offensive player while getting back some of his defensive ability.

He isn't a "good" defensive outfielder. But he is no longer a complete embarrassment.

So if one wanted to be generous to JP one could claim he is working off VERY OLD information. Adam Dunn of 2008 is NOT the Adam Dunn of 2006.

But I think the masses here are correct. JP is being a jerk for no other reason than he wants to be.

Which is pretty sad behavior for a grown man........
   41. MSI Posted: June 19, 2008 at 02:13 PM (#2825791)
I said it before and I'll say it again - JP is trying to get fired a la Peter from "Office Space." I expect him to get a three year contract extension any day now.


But the with bumbling fools in management, you're right, they don't seem to want to fire him.

Also, Vernon Wells is widely considered aloof and not-caring amongst Toronto fans. And he's making a few bones.
   42. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: June 19, 2008 at 02:25 PM (#2825809)
"My prepared remarks for Dunn would be:

Dunn: Well, how are the Blue Jays doing?

Reporter: Last place.

Dunn: Doesn't sound like JP really likes winning that much."


Oh, the burning! How it burns!
   43. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: June 19, 2008 at 02:26 PM (#2825811)
Oh, the burning! How it burns!

J.P. has been rickrolled!
   44. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: June 19, 2008 at 02:31 PM (#2825818)

Do you think he knows who the Blue Jays are?


Does he know where Canada is?
   45. Red Menace Posted: June 19, 2008 at 02:37 PM (#2825823)
I may be wrong, but I remember hearing this about Larry Walker--that his real love was hockey and he didn't care much for baseball.
   46. Xander Posted: June 19, 2008 at 02:44 PM (#2825829)
Well it all balances out since Wayne Gretzky's first love was baseball.

"I live through him quite a bit because my dream was to play baseball," Gretzky said.
Link
   47. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: June 19, 2008 at 02:51 PM (#2825837)

I may be wrong, but I remember hearing this about Larry Walker--that his real love was hockey and he didn't care much for baseball.


Keith Foulke too
   48. Spahn Insane Posted: June 19, 2008 at 02:54 PM (#2825841)
And Tom Glavine?
   49. rr Posted: June 19, 2008 at 02:59 PM (#2825844)
Exactly. You say something vague and non-commital. Folks can read into it anything they want.

He needs some Crash Davis tutorial.


I have mentioned this before in reference to Ricciardi, and I agree. As a fan, I want to see the guys running my team as being "boring" just like Crash and Nuke say on the Bulls' bus. Having moved into a low-level admin role here at work the last few years in addition to teaching, I have learned that when one is in authority--even at a low level--public statements need to be boring vanilla at almost all times. For example, look at Epstein and Francona. They are rarely involved in any flareups or sound bite issues.

Now, as a guy who is neutral about the Jays and looks to MLB for entertainment, I kind of like JP. I click on these links and think, "Cool. Wonder what flap he is into now." If I were a Jays fan, though, I'd be thinking, "Shut up and put a better team on the field."

I AM a Reds fan, and I often wish that Adam Dunn were wired like Barry Bonds, minus the PEDs. I think Dunn might be able to put up MVP-type numbers if he were an obsessed redass. But people are what they are, and I think Dunn's positives outweigh his negatives, and overall he helps the team.
   50. Hack Wilson Posted: June 19, 2008 at 03:06 PM (#2825854)
Sal Bando once said he preferred watching football. I wrote him a letter (way pre E-mail) strongly disagreeing and politely questioning his manhood. He never responded.

Today Sal is CEO of the Middleton Doll Company Link.
   51. Roy Hobbs of WIFFLE Ball Posted: June 19, 2008 at 03:10 PM (#2825860)
I AM a Reds fan, and I often wish that Adam Dunn were wired like Barry Bonds, minus the PEDs.


A less muscular a$$hole?
   52. brockforbroglio Posted: June 19, 2008 at 03:10 PM (#2825861)
Adam Dunn has played in at least 152 games per season from 2004-2007 (and in at least 160 games 3 of those 4 seasons) with a career .900 OPS.

Without looking at VORP leaders during that time period, I'm going to assume he's been at or near the top each of the last 4 seasons.
   53. MSI Posted: June 19, 2008 at 03:12 PM (#2825867)
He's not the perfect slugger though. If his average was higher then 227, he'd knock in more runs with those hits. But then he'd be one of the best in the game, instead of a flawed but pretty good slugger. Either way the Jays offense is so bad they could use him immensely.
   54. Slinger Francisco Barrios (Dr. Memory) Posted: June 19, 2008 at 03:12 PM (#2825869)
When? How about "if ever by the grace of god"?

I don't picture Hank as hogging the STFU juice.

I think this is actually a lot more common than most fans would think if they ever gave it much thought, which why would they.

Well, I figure how could a guy succeed at that level without some attention to his craft. I guess I would be wrong, it's possible to pretty much not give a sh!t and still succeed.
   55. SoSH U at work Posted: June 19, 2008 at 03:19 PM (#2825873)
Sal Bando once said he preferred watching football.


I'm sure Harveys is not the least bit surprised.
   56. The Good Face Posted: June 19, 2008 at 03:24 PM (#2825874)
Well, I figure how could a guy succeed at that level without some attention to his craft. I guess I would be wrong, it's possible to pretty much not give a sh!t and still succeed.


I think that's probably the wrong way to look at it. How many of us posting here find our job to be the most interesting thing in the world, such that there's NOTHING else we'd rather be doing? And how many of us are adequate or better at our jobs? Baseball may just be a job to the guy, but it doesn't mean he doesn't give a ####.

With respect to baseball players, I care about their talent level. I care about their fitness and willingness to prepare physically and mentally for the games. I care about them playing hard and giving their best effort during games. I don't find myself caring so much about their bellyfire. Sure, it'd be nice if they eat/sleep/breath baseball, and you can argue that a guy who loves what he does will be more likely to excel at the non-talent aspects I describe above. But I'd rather have a really good player who treats it like a job over a passionate guy who sucks. Jeff Kent is an ass who doesn't even like baseball, but he's put together a HOF career and been on plenty of winning teams.
   57. bunyon Posted: June 19, 2008 at 03:36 PM (#2825882)
Good Face makes a good point. I think it's just (nearly) impossible to eat/sleep/breathe any ONE thing. Those who do tend to either end up loser burnouts or the best ever at their chosen vocation. For most of us, I suspect the act of working at it both makes it more boring and exposes the darker sides of it such that other professions look very appealing.
   58. MSI Posted: June 19, 2008 at 03:37 PM (#2825884)
Actually another irony is that the Jays are on pace to hit the most double plays ever....they could use a guy that either k's or homers. With the Jays solid OBP and dreadful lack of SLG, Dunn would be a perfect fit. Apparently here is Dunn's response:

" I don’t know the clown. I don’t know, and you can use the word ‘clown’ if you like.

I’ve seen it, I haven’t heard it. I really don’t care what one guy thinks, to be honest with you. If I’m a G.M., I don’t know that I’d go out of my way to discredit a player -- if I’m a player. He’s obviously won more than me, I guess. Or hasn’t. I know nothing about him.

The players didn’t say anything, it’s just some clown sitting in a front office pushing paper. I don’t play for any other reason than the guys here. I’ve said it all along, it doesn’t bother me what people say or think, especially someone outside of the organization who has no idea of anything that goes on here. He’s not even in our country. This guy’s in another country talking ****.

He felt like he needed to say it for some reason, I have no idea why and I don’t care. He could be in this clubhouse right now, I wouldn’t know. I couldn’t tell you his name, what he looks like – he’s got a big mouth, that’s all I know about him.

I read it, I just read it. I don’t care. He doesn’t have to use my name, use someone else’s name. I’m not taking up for him, because I don’t care about him. I don’t know who he is. I’m not going to sit here and defend someone who’s going to sit there and say I don’t care about baseball. It pisses me off, to be honest with you. He doesn’t even know me. If he knew me, fine. Say what you want. But this guy doesn’t know anything about me other than what he sees on whatever SportsCenter they have on up there. That’s it.

It pisses me off. It does. I just told you it pisses me off when people who have no idea what the **** goes on around here and then say – I don’t give a **** what people say in this clubhouse, I don’t care, besides what’s said in here. I don’t care about the perception people have of me, if anything happens, it looks like I ain’t going to Toronto. I can eliminate one team.

I’m not converting my dollars into looneys and twoneys just yet. They’re really good, actually."

http://www.thelotd.com/ctrent/blog/2008/06/19/dunn_i_dont_know_the_clown

In sum, JP burns the bridge for a good FA possibility, for no good reason. Dunn is in Toronto next week for interleague. This will be entertaining.
   59. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: June 19, 2008 at 03:43 PM (#2825889)
Yea, JP's NOT EVEN IN OUR COUNTRY! Get lost you hoser!
   60. MSI Posted: June 19, 2008 at 03:46 PM (#2825893)
Yeah you Canadian terrorists. Wait..

I hope Dunn doesn't think poorly on Canada. JP is a Masshole through and through.

I also think its hilarious that Dunn is giving good managerial advice to JP Ricciardi.
   61. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: June 19, 2008 at 03:47 PM (#2825895)
29. RB in NYC (Now with an Apartment!) Posted: June 19, 2008 at 09:13 AM (#2825751)

Do you think Dunn even knows who JP is?


Dunn: "I don’t know the clown...he could be in this clubhouse right now, I wouldn’t know. I couldn’t tell you his name, what he looks like."

That's one for me!
   62. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: June 19, 2008 at 04:00 PM (#2825909)
Actually, Adam has had better "riffs" relating to different topics. But the line about money exchange was pretty good.

I had Dunn as my dark horse NL MVP candidate and while he's been ok the team has really struggled which surprises me.

But anyway, JP really comes across as a goofball of the highest order.
   63. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: June 19, 2008 at 04:04 PM (#2825914)
The Jays ought to fire J.P. wait for Richard Griffin to write a couple of self congratulatory Death to Moneyball columns, and then hire DePo. I, for one, appreciate it when organizations make decisions to entertain me.
   64. The District Attorney Posted: June 19, 2008 at 04:08 PM (#2825919)
He’s obviously won more than me, I guess. Or hasn’t. I know nothing about him... this guy doesn’t know anything about me other than what he sees on whatever SportsCenter they have on up there... I’m not converting my dollars into looneys and twoneys just yet. They’re really good, actually.
How do you not love this guy?
   65. Dr Stankus and the Semicolons Posted: June 19, 2008 at 04:11 PM (#2825920)
Heh...I love that this:

But I think the masses here are correct. JP is being a jerk for no other reason than he wants to be.

Which is pretty sad behavior for a grown man........


in post #41 was immediately followed with a post from kevin.
   66. MSI Posted: June 19, 2008 at 04:26 PM (#2825935)
That is a nice segway with the ...
   67. KingKaufman Posted: June 19, 2008 at 04:29 PM (#2825941)
Today Sal is CEO of the Middleton Doll Company Link.

And yet probably finds playing with dolls boring. How do you figure a guy like that?
   68. KingKaufman Posted: June 19, 2008 at 04:40 PM (#2825953)
Well, I figure how could a guy succeed at that level without some attention to his craft. I guess I would be wrong, it's possible to pretty much not give a sh!t and still succeed.

What the Good Face said but also, I think it's possible to be interested in the individual aspects of a profession or job without being that interested in the whole. I'm fascinated by the process of writing for newspapers, magazines, etc., but other than worrying about the health and survival of publications I work for, the publishing business isn't interesting to me. I worked at a mailbox rental/packing/shipping place (like Mailboxes etc.) in college, and the owner, who had previously owned a dress shop, told me that he just loved starting and running a business. He didn't care about mail, and also hadn't cared about dresses. I think that's pretty common in business too.

So a ballplayer might be fascinated by the challenge of hitting, say, without necessarily getting into the game as a whole. I've had that experience myself with golf. As a sport/game, it's beyond boring to me. But the challenge of hitting shots well myself, trying to beat playmates, etc., is interesting to me. (But not interesting enough to justify the expense of pursuing it.)
   69. Nasty Nate Posted: June 19, 2008 at 04:40 PM (#2825954)
too bad "doubloonies" didn't catch on instead.
   70. Cooperstown Schtick Posted: June 19, 2008 at 04:55 PM (#2825964)
The culture of this site is very interesting. Presumably, anyone who comes here for discussion does so because they love baseball. I would guess that within that group is a high percentage that would desperately love to have been born with the skill to play the game at the highest level. Here comes a discussion in which it is revealed that there is a guy who has this skill in spades, but he hones it not because it's his passion, but in spite of the fact that it isn't, and he turns playing baseball into his "job," like selling paper at Dunder Mifflin. And this is met primarily with shrugs, certainly with no outrage, and the criticism is heaped on Ricciardi for taking issue with it (which, yeah, was stupid to do in public, but was revealing of the man's priorities).

If Ricciardi should be fired, it's because he's not good at assembling a baseball team. For expressing disdain for people who play the game without love for it, he gets a total pass from me, and maybe a little respect.
   71. Slinger Francisco Barrios (Dr. Memory) Posted: June 19, 2008 at 05:03 PM (#2825968)
I think that's probably the wrong way to look at it. How many of us posting here find our job to be the most interesting thing in the world, such that there's NOTHING else we'd rather be doing? And how many of us are adequate or better at our jobs? Baseball may just be a job to the guy, but it doesn't mean he doesn't give a ####.

The difference I'm keying on is that these aren't just jobs like you and I have. These guys are competing at the very highest levels for very desirable jobs. How could you have such a job without attention to detail? The hard part for a fan is knowing what details are important. I would expect Dunn to know who the leading hitters in the NL were if I were his manager, but then I'm not his manager for a pretty good reason (I don't know sh!t).

As a side note, I'm pretty sure if there were a list of the current best computer programmers printed in the paper every day, I'd be looking at it. It would be a rare bird who wouldn't.
   72. BeanoCook Posted: June 19, 2008 at 05:03 PM (#2825969)
Also, hypersensitive, aloof jackasses really shouldn't do call-in shows.


$$$
   73. base ball chick Posted: June 19, 2008 at 05:05 PM (#2825972)
CS,

you are correct, i wish i had been with the skill and testicles to play MLB. no question.

but there are a lot of people who consider playing baseball a job, their profession and do at least a decent job at it.

but the fans prefer someone who has enthusiasm and passion to someone who is a much better player who looks at playing baseball as any job. actually i really think this whole thing is the entire reason behind so many people who really REALLY think baseball players shouldn't be paid more than basically minimum wage. even they should be doing it for free.
   74. Slinger Francisco Barrios (Dr. Memory) Posted: June 19, 2008 at 05:06 PM (#2825974)
You have to have some first before you can pour it for someone else.

You're not a very good host, are you? 8-)
   75. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: June 19, 2008 at 05:06 PM (#2825975)
#73, I think most of us realize that we're on the extreme edge of baseball fandom around here and so we don't throw stones at folks who aren't. Dunn does his job and that's enough for us. He'll never be a fan-favorite because of his perceived lack of passion, but I don't think he should be a target of derision for it either. Also, as the gm for an MLB team, J.P. really shouldn't comment on players on other teams. It's just common courtesy and professionalism.
   76. bunyon Posted: June 19, 2008 at 05:11 PM (#2825979)
The culture of this site is very interesting. Presumably, anyone who comes here for discussion does so because they love baseball. I would guess that within that group is a high percentage that would desperately love to have been born with the skill to play the game at the highest level. Here comes a discussion in which it is revealed that there is a guy who has this skill in spades, but he hones it not because it's his passion, but in spite of the fact that it isn't, and he turns playing baseball into his "job," like selling paper at Dunder Mifflin. And this is met primarily with shrugs, certainly with no outrage, and the criticism is heaped on Ricciardi for taking issue with it (which, yeah, was stupid to do in public, but was revealing of the man's priorities).

As far as who I root for, no question. If I were to learn, definitively, that Dunn doesn't love the game, I'd be less inclined to root for him. I wrote of Jeff Kent long before I learned what a world class jerk he is only because I read quotes in which he expressed the sentiments that Dunn is accused of. However, I understand that someone may do a job that wouldn't be their first choice - hell, most people are probably doing jobs that aren't their first choice. I am. Most of the people I work with are. That doesn't mean we don't like what we're doing or don't take it seriously.

I do know that there is no reason a GM should go out in public and trash players. He also shouldn't weigh it to heavily in who to obtain. If you could get prime Jeff Kent or some AAAA 2Bman who loves the game, you should get Kent.

So, I think the attitude against JP isn't that we like the idea that Dunn doesn't love the game as much as us, just that it was a classless thing to say (even if accurate, but especially if inaccurate) and is a dumb way to do evaluations. At least, that is where I'm coming from.
   77. bads85 Posted: June 19, 2008 at 05:11 PM (#2825980)
I would expect Dunn to know who the leading hitters in the NL were if I were his manager, but then I'm not his manager for a pretty good reason


Why? Knowing that stuff wouldn't make him better at his job. Knowing the NL pitchers is another story.
   78. Cooperstown Schtick Posted: June 19, 2008 at 06:00 PM (#2826026)
Why? Knowing that stuff wouldn't make him better at his job.

He does play defense, doesn't he? It would help him to know hitters on other teams for that reason alone.

I think most of us realize that we're on the extreme edge of baseball fandom around here and so we don't throw stones at folks who aren't.

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect the 750 guys who are in the majors at any given time to come exclusively from the pool of fans of the game.

but there are a lot of people who consider playing baseball a job, their profession and do at least a decent job at it

I can't believe I'm the only one who hasn't outgrown railing at the universal injustice of this. I love the game so much I pay money to play it every year. The idea that there are people who have to drag themselves out of bed and shlump down to the baseball mills is cartoonish in its unfairness. I would sell children for the opportunity to endure that hardship. Not my own children, but still...
   79. BTF's left-wing cheering section (formerly_dp) Posted: June 19, 2008 at 06:03 PM (#2826028)
JP's act would be a lot more endearing if he were as good a GM as he thinks he is. Since he took over the Jays, the Rays have managed to make themselves relevant first, and that organization was a mess. Had he come in and said "here's my plan- suck so bad we get a ton of high draft picks and contend by 2010" he would not have gotten the job. But it would've been better than "make a bunch of bold but pointless moves, and then be bold and pointless in trying to get out from under them. Oh and ##### about how the Yankees and Red Sox make your job impossible, so you never have to be accountable for sucking your job." He's more arrogant than Beane, but not as smart. And seems to think "character guys" are the new market inefficiency, which was the explanation we got for Russ Adams...
   80. BTF's left-wing cheering section (formerly_dp) Posted: June 19, 2008 at 06:06 PM (#2826029)
He does play defense, doesn't he? It would help him to know hitters on other teams for that reason alone.

That's what the coaches are for. Not in a bad way either, just that one person is responsible for positioning the OFs. If each outfielder positioned himself based on his knowledge about the hitters, it would be a mess.
   81. Cooperstown Schtick Posted: June 19, 2008 at 06:06 PM (#2826030)
"Do you go home and watch sportswriters? I do this every single day. I don't want to go home and watch it more,'' Dunn said.

Also, this is insulting and just rubbing my nose in it. Most sportswriters, I imagine, would rather have Dunn's job than their own. I would guess it was love of the sport that put them there in the first place. No, they don't go home and watch sportswriters. They go home and watch baseball because they weren't given your talent, you insensitive jackass.
   82. rlc Posted: June 19, 2008 at 06:09 PM (#2826032)
GOK why I should feel the urge to defend J.P. Ricciardi, but he does have a point.

If I'm about to hand a guy a 7 year guaranteed contract that, absent the Cecil Fielder Financial Management® plan, will ensure that he doesn't need to work another day in his life, I want to know damn sure what motivates him to keep working. Does he love his job? Is he driven to be the best at everything he does? Does he have his eye on his place in history? Does he crave being worshipped by fans?

Or will he be just as happy sitting on his ass eating Doritos and watching fishing shows on TV?

Here's a guy who already has a history of indifference to conditioning, even without a long term contract. What happens when his body starts to break down and he needs to do extensive, boring physical therapy to even get back on the field, much less be as good as he was before?

Dunn's an excellent hitter who could help a team win games, but these uncertainties really have to be factored into the calculations when offering him a contract. Now, it seems insane that they would reduce his value to zero, but I'm sure some GMs just shorten "We doubt he'll sign for what we think he's worth" to "We're not going to pursue him."

Of course, Ricciardi made his comments in response to a question about trading for Dunn, so unless he's just skipping over some steps ("We're not going to win this year even with him, and he's too expensive to trade for unless we can extend him, and we don't want to extend him because...") this analysis is beside the point and J.P. is just being stupid.
   83. Fred C. Dobbs Posted: June 19, 2008 at 06:14 PM (#2826036)
As a side note, I'm pretty sure if there were a list of the current best computer programmers printed in the paper every day, I'd be looking at it. It would be a rare bird who wouldn't.


Do you really think people are that interested in computer programmers?? I'd be hard pressed to think of something I care less about.
   84. Stevens Posted: June 19, 2008 at 06:22 PM (#2826041)
you insensitive jackass

Oh come the #### on!

You think there are aren't people in the world who wouldn't "sell children" to be in your situation Shtick? If you're like the rest of Primer, you're white, well educated, and your household is making somewhere in the neighborhood of $60 to $120 K a year. Even if that's not you, you obviously have the resources to access the Internet and free time enough to argue about baseball, a past time.

I'd say there's a good chunk of the world's population who would love to have your life just as much as you'd love to have Adam Dunn's. Do you thank creation every day for all that you've got? Or do you spend time wishing you were a ball player?

It's simply human nature for us to want something more. It's not bad. But it doesn't make Adam Dunn an insensitive jackass if he isn't completely satisfied with his job, just because you think you would be.
   85. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: June 19, 2008 at 06:25 PM (#2826045)
Do you really think people are that interested in computer programmers?? I'd be hard pressed to think of something I care less about.

I think the point is that other computer progammers would be interested in this.

Also, yeah, I agree with #87. So my boyhood dreams of playing baseball and having a pet dolphin aren't going to come true. I'm over it.
   86.  Posted: June 19, 2008 at 06:25 PM (#2826047)
I do think JP deserves SOME slack: he does this call-in show every week, and is quite diligent about it. Even after horrendous losses he will call in and let idiot drunkards scream at him about how unClutch Wells is.

When Delgado was around, fans would call in screaming about how every HR Delgado hits is a solo shot and blah blah, but, he still continues to call in and face the retards. I think he deserves some credit for that as not many (any?) other GM's have the stones to do the same thing.

But his comment about Dunn was really dumb and I am eagerly awaiting our new GM...
   87. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: June 19, 2008 at 06:29 PM (#2826049)
I do think JP deserves SOME slack: he does this call-in show every week, and is quite diligent about it. Even after horrendous losses he will call in and let idiot drunkards scream at him about how unClutch Wells is.

Absolutely. It can't be easy to listen to the idiots week after week, year after year. It's not like I don't have sympathy for J.P. He effed up is all, but, unfortunately, he's not in a position where he can eff up like that publically. Being a gm is a tough, tough job.
   88. The Bones McCoy of THT Posted: June 19, 2008 at 06:44 PM (#2826064)

Absolutely. It can't be easy to listen to the idiots week after week, year after year.


Nor watching them try to compete in the AL East.

Best Regards

John
   89. Slinger Francisco Barrios (Dr. Memory) Posted: June 19, 2008 at 06:45 PM (#2826065)
Do you really think people are that interested in computer programmers?? I'd be hard pressed to think of something I care less about.

Just substitute "computer programmer" for your profession and then get back to me. Or are you one of Lee Elia's 15%? 8-)
   90. Shredder Posted: June 19, 2008 at 06:46 PM (#2826066)
My favorite Adam Dunn moment was when he called Marty Brenneman during a rain delay a couple years ago. Fortunately the audio still works. I still crack up every time I hear that.
   91. flournoy Posted: June 19, 2008 at 06:46 PM (#2826067)
The list of sports that bore me to tears as a spectator, but I find fun to play is best expressed as "everything but baseball." Even with baseball, I often occupy myself by doing something else simultaneously while watching/listening to the game.

I expect that most professional baseball players get bored watching baseball. They are active, athletic men, and most active, athletic men would rather do something than watch someone else do it.
   92. Swedish Chef Posted: June 19, 2008 at 06:48 PM (#2826071)

I think the point is that other computer progammers would be interested in this.


Nah, it would probably be based on old, discredited stats like KLOCs or all-nighters pulled, or dumb scouting reports full of clichés about clutch compiling and having a good desktop.
   93. Hombre Brotani Posted: June 19, 2008 at 06:52 PM (#2826076)
From memory, my favorite Adam Dunn moment was when someone asked him to comment on the fact that he was the tallest position player at the 2002 All-Star Game. His reply: "I'm also the smartest and best-looking."
   94. vortex of dissipation Posted: June 19, 2008 at 06:53 PM (#2826079)
In all fairness, Dunn said that he didn't know who the top three hitters were in the AL, not the NL. It's not his league.
   95. Cooperstown Schtick Posted: June 19, 2008 at 06:54 PM (#2826080)
Do you thank creation every day for all that you've got? Or do you spend time wishing you were a ball player?

It's simply human nature for us to want something more. It's not bad. But it doesn't make Adam Dunn an insensitive jackass if he isn't completely satisfied with his job, just because you think you would be.


It looks to me like you answered your own question, which is confusing to me. For the record, do I thank creation or wish I was a ball player? Both. They're not mutually exclusive, as you point out in your next sentence. I don't spend all day wallowing in bitterness, but a little of it rises to the surface when I read about guys like Dunn.

Adam Dunn telling a sportswriter he isn't satisfied with his job is, to me, like grousing about the slowness of your DSL connection right in the face of somebody who you know has dial-up. I stand by the insensitive jackass statement.

So my boyhood dreams of playing baseball and having a pet dolphin aren't going to come true. I'm over it.

I have a pet dolphin. I asked for a pony. I feed it enough to keep it alive, but I don't care anything about it and would just as soon have the extra space in my pool.
   96. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: June 19, 2008 at 06:54 PM (#2826081)
I expect that most professional baseball players get bored watching baseball. They are active, athletic men, and most active, athletic men would rather do something than watch someone else do it.

The guys in the bullpen usually look bored out of their minds.
   97. rlc Posted: June 19, 2008 at 06:55 PM (#2826083)
dumb scouting reports full of clichés about clutch compiling and having a good desktop.

We're not selling gene-sequencers here...
   98. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: June 19, 2008 at 06:56 PM (#2826085)
Adam Dunn telling a sportswriter he isn't satisfied with his job is, to me, like grousing about the slowness of your DSL connection right in the face of somebody who you know has dial-up. I stand by the insensitive jackass statement.

I missed this. When did he say he wasn't satisfied with his job?
   99.  Posted: June 19, 2008 at 06:58 PM (#2826088)
I am a big fan of baseball, and probably enjoy watching it far more than Dunn does, but I have (had) no idea who the top three "hitters" (I assume batting average) are in the AL either, and I don't really care.
   100. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: June 19, 2008 at 07:02 PM (#2826094)
Hell, I don't know who have the 3 highest averages in the AL--I'm guessing Bradley, Hamilton, Damon?

edit: it's A-Rod, Damon and Mauer as of today.
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