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Wednesday, October 28, 2020

Justin Turner of Los Angeles Dodgers pulled from World Series after positive COVID-19 test

Los Angeles Dodgers third baseman Justin Turner tested positive for COVID-19 and was pulled from the team’s Game 6 World Series-clinching win against the Tampa Bay Rays on Tuesday night in Arlington, Texas.

Commissioner Rob Manfred confirmed the positive test after the game, telling Fox: “It’s a bittersweet night for us.”

Turner was 0-for-3 with two strikeouts before coming out of the game in the eighth ainning. The team did not give a reason for his exit when he left.

RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: October 28, 2020 at 12:22 AM | 70 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: coronavirus, justin turner

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   1. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: October 28, 2020 at 01:46 AM (#5986020)
How did he test positive for something that the White House claimed today is over?
   2. Tom Goes to the Ballpark Posted: October 28, 2020 at 01:54 AM (#5986023)
Turner celebrating on the field after the game seems ill advised and a poor example.
   3. Itchy Row Posted: October 28, 2020 at 01:55 AM (#5986024)
Suddenly Justin Turner will decide the next president.
   4. Howie Menckel Posted: October 28, 2020 at 01:59 AM (#5986025)
not the finish we wanted - but the finish we deserved, I guess

10.28: Ken Rosenthal said on FS1 late Tuesday that Justin Turner (COVID-19) "insisted upon" being part of
the Dodgers' World Series clinching celebration. Turner was pulled in the eighth inning of Tuesday night's World Series Game 6 win after the Dodgers were alerted that the veteran third baseman had tested positive for COVID-19, but he joined his teammates on the field at some point after the final out and even took part in a team photo on the mound.

The transcribed television report from Rosenthal: "My understanding from various people is that he was told not to go on the field, or asked not to go on the field. He insisted upon it, the Dodgers insisted upon it, and that is why he was out there. And at one point, he did have his mask off. He was mostly masked, but there was a point during the picture that he did take it off." Rosenthal also stated that "this is not a case of a false positive."
   5. Moeball Posted: October 28, 2020 at 02:57 AM (#5986029)
Yes it sucks that he was going to miss the celebration, but...he should have missed the celebration. This is inexcusable selfish on Turner's part. He just jeopardized the health of his teammates and their families.
   6. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: October 28, 2020 at 04:14 AM (#5986031)
Rudy Gobert’s press conference seems like much longer than 7 months ago...
   7. KronicFatigue Posted: October 28, 2020 at 06:45 AM (#5986032)
The pictures and videos I'm seeing on Twitter have totally ruined the positive vibe I felt from last night. The LCS and especially the WS were a delight. But to wake up to this, especially right after my family decided to cancel Thanksgiving....
   8. Jeff Francoeur's OPS Posted: October 28, 2020 at 07:46 AM (#5986035)
I bet cancelling Thanksgiving correlates highly with voting Democrat.

;)
   9. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: October 28, 2020 at 08:40 AM (#5986039)
I used to like the guy. What a selfish prick. And he’s definitely not a kid.
   10. bunyon Posted: October 28, 2020 at 08:47 AM (#5986042)
The positive test and his joining the celebration definitely tarnishes my feeling. It’s the World Series between a great and at least very good team. It was a very good series after two excellent LCS. But turner being pulled and then joining the celebration brings 2020 back to us way too fast.

But, look, yes he was stupid and selfish. As were the Dodgers. But I can’t say I wouldn’t have done the same. It’s the World Series. It’s the crowning achievement of a life’s work. Missing it when you feel fine is a tall ask. I’ll judge him and the dodgers but not too harshly. I’ve got good friends who’ve been stupid with far less reason.

For what it’s worth, this is where we are. Precautions are frowned upon and seen as weakness. So this is what we get.
   11. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: October 28, 2020 at 09:03 AM (#5986043)
But, look, yes he was stupid and selfish. As were the Dodgers. But I can’t say I wouldn’t have done the same. It’s the World Series. It’s the crowning achievement of a life’s work. Missing it when you feel fine is a tall ask. I’ll judge him and the dodgers but not too harshly. I’ve got good friends who’ve been stupid with far less reason.

I can say it was a selfish decision and I would not have done it, but when we have 60,000+ cases per day in the US I find it hard to get too aggravated about a single person's actions. If he went to visit his grandma at the nursing home, or if he started yelling at a Starbucks barista for asking him to wear a mask, I would feel differently.
   12. villageidiom Posted: October 28, 2020 at 09:07 AM (#5986046)
the Dodgers insisted upon it, and that is why he was out there
My understanding is that the Dodgers' attitude was something like "Hey, we've been around the guy in the clubhouse and the dugout all day. If we're going to get it from him we probably already have it. It's not like spending time on the field with him after the game is going to make any real difference."

Which, I mean, they're right about how it affects *them*. But there are a lot of people on the field after the game who weren't in the clubhouse or dugout, and it might affect them, too. EDIT: Especially if the rest of the them already got it from him.
   13. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: October 28, 2020 at 09:16 AM (#5986047)
There's also a whole country and world watching. Probably around 425,000 more Americans than expected will die this year, and it would be nice if people in positions of influence were to show that they take the problem seriously.
   14. bunyon Posted: October 28, 2020 at 09:18 AM (#5986050)
Right. MLB should have (and may have for all I know) set up an area and told anyone going in that they would be exposed. No one should have been punished, judged or criticized for not going in. If that means the players have to carry the champagne themselves so be it.

No one was wearing masks in the dugout or probably the clubhouse. Anyone who’d been around Turner the last few days has been exposed.

I would be very angry to learn mlb didn’t tell the non-partisans working around the dodgers.
   15. JRVJ Posted: October 28, 2020 at 10:16 AM (#5986059)
12, reflects my feelings totally.

The Dodgers should be fined very, very steeply (up to and including the loss of a draft pick), and Justin Turner should be suspended for at least part of the 2021 season.

What Turner did, and what the Dodgers players (and at least some of the organization) supported was an extremely risky and foolhardy action by Turner.

14, absolutely.

Unless you're the Prussian General Staff, at some point you run out of plans, but the decision should have been made right there and right then that if the Dodgers won, there should be a cordon sanitaire around their celebratory activities.

   16. Jose Needs an Absurd Ukulele Concert Posted: October 28, 2020 at 10:21 AM (#5986062)
but the decision should have been made right there and right then that if the Dodgers won, there should be a cordon sanitaire around their celebratory activities.


There's really no reason that shouldn't have been the plan all along. You can do interviews from a six foot distance easily, photographers can get really good shots from hundreds of feet away let alone six feet.
   17. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: October 28, 2020 at 10:22 AM (#5986063)

Yeah, I think everyone on the team should have been quarantined after the game, even if "quarantine" meant celebrating together in the middle of the stadium on national tv.
   18. JRVJ Posted: October 28, 2020 at 10:28 AM (#5986066)
16, I guess MLB figured (*) that if the players were in a bubble, they weren't going to be infecting anybody else.

Having said that, your point stands, in that in non-wacky world scenarios, its the players who could have gotten infected from somebody outside the bubble.

(*) Wrongly, as it turned out at the eleventh hour.
   19. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: October 28, 2020 at 10:32 AM (#5986070)
Him coming onto the field despite being asked not to is an embodiment of how we've handled Covid as a country. "But mah freedoms!"
   20. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: October 28, 2020 at 11:00 AM (#5986078)
I have so many questions about the "bubble" and their testing protocol:

1. What exactly was their bubble? We got a ton of stories on the NBA/NHL ones and all the rules that went into enforcing that. Obviously, the MLB one involved more travel (between cities, to and from the hotel; both of which were different than the campus things the other leagues did) and I'm not sure how the various people working for MLB (and the stadium and hotels) were watched/restricted/etc. Not to mention there were also fans at these games. So in one sense, it's not a surprise that the MLB bubble had a case while the other ones didn't. I still would be very interested to know how he got it. For the NBA/NHL, they had protocols in place for their families getting into the bubbles later in the process, but I'm not sure what MLB did (I got the impression a couple of times even though the families were there, they were still separated from the players; if that's the case, it's pretty clear Turner almost definitely gave it to his wife last night; what about all the kids on the field last night - they kept showing Kershaw walking around with his infant and kids didn't have masks on).

2. If it were the regular season, last night's game wouldn't have been played right? As soon as Turner's inconclusive test came back, they would have postponed the game (I'm pretty sure that happened a couple of times during the year). I understand MLB not wanting to do that with the WS - and they dodged a bullet with the Dodgers winning because there was no way they could have played game 7 today once they got the positive. I'd expect a bunch more people on the Dodgers to test positive now - and they would have even before the carelessness during the celebrations.

Totally agree with 10 on my feelings of this now. I very quickly went from feeling bad for Turner to absolute disgust.
   21. bunyon Posted: October 28, 2020 at 11:11 AM (#5986081)
I feel both bad for him and absolute disgust. Sympathy and blame. One feature of our pandemic is you can know you're infected but feel absolutely fine. Which is a weird place to be and very hard to reason out. In previous pandemics, you isolated if you were sick. Even though everyone knew group events were dangerous. We're programmed that if we feel good, we are good. Most of our population won't miss out on a restaurant experience, when in our world those are mundane, everyday events. To ask someone who feels fine to miss out on, probably, likely, their one time to celebrate a team championship is asking a lot.

And, yet, it should have been asked and Turner (and the Dodgers) should be judged on their failure. I'm just saying it's a very human failure, one we all might make.

I'd agree with a fine and a suspension. But rending of garments and suggestions this is the worst thing ever are over the top, in my opinion.


Questions about the bubble are very important, especially going into next season. Knowing what we know about how the virus spreads (in clusters), it's entirely possible that MLB didn't do anything special to pull the season off but, instead, simply got lucky. That luck will run out if half their World Champions end up in the hospital a week after clinching.

   22. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 28, 2020 at 11:17 AM (#5986083)
Knowing what we know about how the virus spreads (in clusters), it's entirely possible that MLB didn't do anything special to pull the season off but, instead, simply got lucky.
Well, there were two major outbreak clusters. IIRC, though, there were also a few cases of players having positive tests that didn't turn into teamwide clusters...or did those end up being false positives?
   23. JRVJ Posted: October 28, 2020 at 11:23 AM (#5986088)
20, after his Saturday heroics, I read stories about Brett Phillips and how his wife flew in to watch the WS but couldn't actually be in contact or proximity to him, because she hadn't been in the bubble with him.

That would seem to suggest that some family members COULD be included in the bubble, but if they hadn't been included, they were forbidden to be in contact/close proximity with their ball playing spouse/father, etc.
   24. . Posted: October 28, 2020 at 11:24 AM (#5986090)
I'd recommend that everyone here take a day or two and try to make those days devoid of finding people at whom you wish to fling rhetorical bile and refraining from flinging such bile.

Does anyone here remember when that's how we lived? It was better that way, right? There's no real *need* to spend your time searching out the Justin Turners of the world as targets for the daily bile fling. Right?

(Note here that it doesn't matter whether the bile fling is "justified" or not. Stop constantly outraging yourselves, even if your outrage can somehow be garbled into something resembling "justified." I absolutely guarantee that you would be able to live through today without generating a mental opinion of Justin Turner's behavior and certainly without expressing that mental opinion out loud to other people. That's doable, right?)
   25. JRVJ Posted: October 28, 2020 at 11:32 AM (#5986093)
24, I had COVID-19 in late June/early July.

Suffice it to say that this is not a theoretical exercise for me.

I had a fairly easy time of it, except for the fact that a week in, some lab work showed that my D-Dimer (*) readings were 14x above the upper range of what's normal. I had to get anti-clotting injections for a couple of weeks, and we were pins and needles until further lab readings showed my D-Dimer readings were finally within normal.

(*) D-Dimer is a clotting indicator. Considering how COVID-19 kills, having a clotting indicator 14x over the upper range of what's normal is a real and present danger.
   26. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 28, 2020 at 11:37 AM (#5986096)
I absolutely guarantee that you would be able to live through today without generating a mental opinion of Justin Turner's behavior and certainly without expressing that mental opinion out loud to other people. That's doable, right?
I absolutely guarantee that you would be able to live through today without taking a contrarian position and certainly without making condescending posts about that contrarian position. That’s doable, right?
   27. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: October 28, 2020 at 11:59 AM (#5986108)
It’s Not Justin Turner’s Fault

The point here is not to argue that Justin Turner should have been on the field for those celebrations. He shouldn’t have been; it’s unacceptable that he was. But a person in Justin Turner’s circumstances—one experiencing, according to his own statement on the matter, no symptoms of sickness—will want more than anything to celebrate their World Series win on the field with their teammates, and will view the invisible risk as tolerable in return for the uniquely compelling reward. People in his teammates’ circumstances will not want to exclude their teammate—a comrade and maybe a friend with whom they’ve been sharing a dugout and locker rooms and hotel rooms and baseball’s stunted teen-boy culture through all manner of grossness—from this once-in-a-lifetime moment of joy and catharsis just because he might be sick even though he seems fine. It’s no good not to be realistic about this. If any of them, Turner or his Dodgers teammates, had any say in determining whether he’d participate in the postgame ceremonies, then they made reckless, shortsighted, irresponsible decisions. But that is what people will do in extraordinary circumstances.

If you believe in having institutions of authority—in having clearly communicated sets of rules and laws and, if need be, penalties for violating them; in having officials with the authority to enforce them; in having society, in other words—then the best reason for and primary benefit of having those institutions is so that decisions about those sorts of things will not automatically fall to the very people most compromised by exigent circumstance. So that the lines will be clear and bright and visible from miles away, and in their clarity and brightness also fair. So that somebody can step in and say Nope, sorry, them’s the rules and the only response is OK, yep, I did in fact know in advance that them’s indeed the rules.....

The bleak lesson of 2020—really, the bleak lesson of so much of the history of this society, but one the year 2020 seems hell-bent on teaching—is about the futility of individual responses amid institutional failure.


Ladies and gentlemen, I'll be brief. The issue here is not whether we broke a few rules, or took a few liberties with our female party guests - we did. [winks at Dean Wormer] But you can't hold a whole fraternity responsible for the behavior of a few, sick twisted individuals. For if you do, then shouldn't we blame the whole fraternity system? And if the whole fraternity system is guilty, then isn't this an indictment of our educational institutions in general? I put it to you, Greg - isn't this an indictment of our entire American society? Well, you can do whatever you want to us, but I for one am not going to stand here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America. Gentlemen!
   28. . Posted: October 28, 2020 at 12:02 PM (#5986110)
I absolutely guarantee that you would be able to live through today without taking a contrarian position and certainly without making condescending posts about that contrarian position. That’s doable, right?


I took no position on the substance and even said this:

(Note here that it doesn't matter whether the bile fling is "justified" or not. Stop constantly outraging yourselves, even if your outrage can somehow be garbled into something resembling "justified." I absolutely guarantee that you would be able to live through today without generating a mental opinion of Justin Turner's behavior and certainly without expressing that mental opinion out loud to other people. That's doable, right?)


The perpetual outrage thing was ok in maybe like 2010. At this point, it's a danger bordering on poor citizenship. That goes for me as well. There's no need for me to even have an opinion on a baseball player with COVID and I'm able to do other things than formulate one and get all outraged. Since I can do it, my natural assumption is that a bunch of other people -- not all, but a lot -- can also do it. If they aren't able, then the whole thing starts to resemble some kind of religion and I'm starting to think that's kind of where we are now.

   29. base ball chick Posted: October 28, 2020 at 12:06 PM (#5986112)
Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: October 28, 2020 at 10:32 AM (#5986070)

Him coming onto the field despite being asked not to is an embodiment of how we've handled Covid as a country. "But mah freedoms!"


- translated: i wanna do what i wanna do and if i kill people with this virus i transmitted, well, let em all go to he!!, not mah problem

justin SHOULD have been wearing a mask 100% of the time after hearing about the positive test. if his teammates and everyone else hadn't already caught it from him, it doesn't mean they can't in the team photos

- and i don't get the - i feel fine so i can't spread anything horse-poopoo. sexually transmitted diseases are usually spread without the infected person having any symptoms, or aren't they allowed to teach that in skool no mo
   30. . Posted: October 28, 2020 at 12:17 PM (#5986117)
In addition to not always searching out That Which Outrages Me, I'd also advocate when people want to think about political things that they sit down and either think through or search out what the other "side" is actually saying or advocating -- as opposed to caricaturing it so as to foment and further the outrage. If you want to participate fully in politics in a mature way, that should be doable and honestly if someone "thinks" something without having ever tested other ways of thinking about those things and coming up with ways to reject them, their "thoughts" on the matter really aren't worth that much.
   31. Red Menace Posted: October 28, 2020 at 01:31 PM (#5986169)
Posted: October 28, 2020 at 11:20 AM
Treating someone like Blake Snell as just another random number generator in the 6th game of a World Series is dumb as ####. It is in fact kind of the end game of analytics, but in many ways analytics is dumb as ####


Posted: October 28, 2020 at 11:24 AM
I'd recommend that everyone here take a day or two and try to make those days devoid of finding people at whom you wish to fling rhetorical bile and refraining from flinging such bile.
   32. . Posted: October 28, 2020 at 01:35 PM (#5986171)
Exactly. Take the "outrage" away from politics and steer it to things like baseball. Ultimately, that's why baseball is there in the first place. You want to unleash bile on some baseball player or some baseball team, have at it. People have been doing that for over a century to no ill effect. In a very real sense, the raison d'etre of the New York Yankees is to be an outlet upon which to release bile, thereby helping us to done down the bile we unleash at each other as people and citizens. Worked for a long time. Failing now.

For those who can't see the difference between Kevin Cash, baseball manager and Justin Turner, citizen, or even Keith Law, idiot "analyst," and Keith Law, citizen ... well, that's part of the problem.

Like I said, people don't really *have* to froth themselves up into outrage about other citizens, much of it induced and monetized. They really don't. There are other ways. It's purely a choice and people are ultimately responsible for that choice.
   33. Rally Posted: October 28, 2020 at 01:39 PM (#5986173)
No ill effect? B.S. Did you not see Darryl Strawberry's tears when Bart and Lisa Darryled him in "Homer at the bat"?
   34. villageidiom Posted: October 28, 2020 at 02:48 PM (#5986192)
Does anyone here remember when that's how we lived? It was better that way, right? There's no real *need* to spend your time searching out the Justin Turners of the world as targets for the daily bile fling. Right?
I mean, the topic of the posted thread is that Justin Turner tested positive for COVID-19 and was considered enough of a threat to others based on league protocols for this that he was immediately removed from the game and the dugout. It's not like anyone had to search this out. Whether it appears in Hot Topics it is indeed a hot topic. Similarly, a related discussion on his relative level of responsibility in immediately ignoring the protocols is not at all inappropriate for this thread.

If discussion of Justin Turner's COVID-19 positive test, and related concerns, isn't really your thing then maybe don't spend your time in this thread.
   35. . Posted: October 28, 2020 at 02:53 PM (#5986198)
I mean, the topic of the posted thread is that Justin Turner tested positive for COVID-19 and was considered enough of a threat to others based on league protocols for this that he was immediately removed from the game and the dugout. It's not like anyone had to search this out. Whether it appears in Hot Topics it is indeed a hot topic. Similarly, a related discussion on his relative level of responsibility in immediately ignoring the protocols is not at all inappropriate for this thread.

If discussion of Justin Turner's COVID-19 positive test, and related concerns, isn't really your thing then maybe don't spend your time in this thread.


None of these things are discussions and few if any people here -- and certainly in the outrage-o-sphere -- actually want a discussion of anything. These things are vehicles for self-expression and self-actualization, not discussion. Many regulars in the outrage-o-sphere have no idea what a discussion even is.

Some of us have more robust selves. Many people here do as well. Not all, to be sure, but many. They should search out that fuller self more often.
   36. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: October 28, 2020 at 02:59 PM (#5986200)

I don't usually agree with SBB but I would suggest that any outrage you're feeling this week, channel it to volunteering to GOTV (plenty of ways to virtual phone bank for the candidates of your choice) rather than arguing with people online.
   37. Karl from NY Posted: October 28, 2020 at 03:34 PM (#5986210)
If celebrating WINNING THE F*CKING WORLD SERIES WITH YOUR TEAMMATES isn't the time to tolerate a smidgen of Covid risk, society doesn't deserve to continue.
   38. SoSH U at work Posted: October 28, 2020 at 03:43 PM (#5986211)
I don't usually agree with SBB but I would suggest that any outrage you're feeling this week, channel it to volunteering to GOTV (plenty of ways to virtual phone bank for the candidates of your choice) rather than arguing with people online.


From here, it seems SBB is at least as outraged about the outrage as the outraged BTFers are about Turner.

I guess outrage is like whining and hypocrisy that way.
   39. base ball chick Posted: October 28, 2020 at 03:57 PM (#5986216)
Karl from NY Posted: October 28, 2020 at 03:34 PM (#5986210)

If celebrating WINNING THE F*CKING WORLD SERIES WITH YOUR TEAMMATES isn't the time to tolerate a smidgen of Covid risk, society doesn't deserve to continue


- and the reason turner couldn't bring his selfish self to wear a mask when he KNOWS he is positive is, like, WHAT?

- there is always a reason to excuse people for exposing people to possibly fatal/long lasting consequence disease

if turning 18 isn't a reason to celebrate by having sex without a condom, i don't know what is, what chance is there the partner could catch my HIV or chlamydia. after all, they didn't last time we had sex. that i know of. and anyway, it's their problem if they catch it
   40. . Posted: October 28, 2020 at 03:59 PM (#5986218)
From here, it seems SBB is at least as outraged about the outrage as the outraged BTFers are about Turner.


I'd suggest a re-read, then, as your "seem" meter appears to be in need of re-calibration. Perpetual outrage, even if justified, is an emotionally unhealthy state. The country can't really function with massive swaths of its citizens in an emotionally unhealthy state. While I get the urge to call me a hypocrite and all the rest, you know this to be true.



   41. SoSH U at work Posted: October 28, 2020 at 04:08 PM (#5986226)
I'd suggest a re-read, then, as your "seem" meter appears to be in need of re-calibration. Perpetual outrage, even if justified, is an emotionally unhealthy state. The country can't really function with massive swaths of its citizens in an emotionally unhealthy state. While I get the urge to call me a hypocrite and all the rest, you know this to be true.


I checked, thanks. It's working fine.

As with hypocrisy and whining and so many other things, one man's outrage is another's cool-headed denunciation. So will it ever be.

   42. . Posted: October 28, 2020 at 04:12 PM (#5986229)
- and the reason turner couldn't bring his selfish self to wear a mask when he KNOWS he is positive is, like, WHAT?


For anyone interested in an honest discussion in which various viewpoints (*) get a floor, I can venture at least a couple, three things.

One, like the vast majority of us, including the perpetually outraged, he is in fact not as unselfish as he should be.

Two, he lost himself in the moment and didn't want to miss out on one of the best experiences he'll ever have in his life, particularly given the interpretation he has that there's an extremely small chance he'll ever be damaged by COVID or damage anyone by transmitting COVID.

Three, he simply ###### up and is now regretful -- another thing pretty much everyone here, including the perpetually outraged, has done in their lives.

Like I said, I'm personally not going to invest any effort in having an opinion on this, much less express one. But these all seem like perfectly plausible explanations of his conduct for those who are actually searching for those things. If someone chooses to be outraged (TM) by his conduct, I'd simply refer back to my earlier comments on the matter.

(*) Note here that these aren't necessarily my viewpoints, but see in this vein, post 30. Maybe it's the fake law training and whatnot, but I've always been able to separate the acts of summoning up an argument that can be made, and subscribing to said argument. To a great degree, that dichotomy has itself become a victim of the social media cesspool era.
   43. The Gary DiSarcina Fan Club (JAHV) Posted: October 28, 2020 at 04:13 PM (#5986231)
Well, I don't know where on the SBB scale I will fall, or if I will draw the ire of everyone else and need to be placed on the list of history's greatest monsters with Snapper, but I simply can't get mad at Turner and the Dodgers. Intellectually, I agree it was irresponsible and unwise, but the Dodgers just won the World Series. It's the pinnacle of what he and his teammates have been working for for years and it was such a joyful moment. I can't summon any outrage.

I will accept your scorn.
   44. . Posted: October 28, 2020 at 04:15 PM (#5986232)
As with hypocrisy and whining and so many other things, one man's outrage is another's cool-headed denunciation. So will it ever be.


The first sentence isn't entirely without merit, but social media has eradicated the context and conditions under which it had the ring of permanent truth. Which makes the second sentence not so accurate. Hopefully, we'll get to a point where the second sentence is true again.
   45. tshipman Posted: October 28, 2020 at 04:16 PM (#5986233)
I don't really care if Justin Turner kills the rest of the Dodgers, but I will just say that the attitude that some people are showing in this thread is why we're currently setting records for cases in the US.
   46. Captain Joe Bivens, Elderly Northeastern Jew Posted: October 28, 2020 at 04:18 PM (#5986235)
there's an extremely small chance he'll ever be damaged by COVID or damage anyone by transmitting COVID.


Then he's an idiot because he has no way of knowing that, and neither do you. Why risk infecting someone with something proven deadly in enough cases so as to make quarantining the right thing to do?
   47. . Posted: October 28, 2020 at 04:23 PM (#5986238)
I don't really care if Justin Turner kills the rest of the Dodgers, but I will just say that the attitude that some people are showing in this thread is why we're currently setting records for cases in the US.


The author of this gem is an example of one who falls into the "not all" clause of the third sentence of the last paragraph of post 35, so it's good that he showed up and demonstrated why. Still a distinct minority, at least to my hopefully not overly-optimistic thought.
   48. The Yankee Clapper Posted: October 28, 2020 at 04:37 PM (#5986248)
I wonder how Turner was exposed, given that he was “in the bubble“. Not that surprising that MLB couldn’t provide 100% protection forever, but there might be something to be learned if they ever pinpoint what went wrong. Will anyone else test positive soon enough to be traced to similar exposure? I suppose the big question is whether there will be further spread traced to Turner’s post-game celebration. I’d wait for more info before casting too much blame, but the current era seems to demand an immediate reaction.
   49. . Posted: October 28, 2020 at 04:41 PM (#5986252)
Then he's an idiot


I was going to put something like that as "Four."

"and the reason turner couldn't bring his selfish self to wear a mask when he KNOWS he is positive is, like, WHAT?"

,,,

Four, because he's an idiot.
   50. base ball chick Posted: October 28, 2020 at 04:43 PM (#5986254)
tshipman Posted: October 28, 2020 at 04:16 PM (#5986233)

I don't really care if Justin Turner kills the rest of the Dodgers, but I will just say that the attitude that some people are showing in this thread is why we're currently setting records for cases in the US.


- dingdingding

i would guess justin turner just didn't give a single dammm about anyone else and thinks he's immune because he's White and only Those Icky Dark skinned people are clurttering up the hospitals
   51. base ball chick Posted: October 28, 2020 at 04:46 PM (#5986256)
I'd suggest a re-read, then, as your "seem" meter appears to be in need of re-calibration. Perpetual outrage, even if justified, is an emotionally unhealthy state. The country can't really function with massive swaths of its citizens in an emotionally unhealthy state..."


- and you prefer, what, a state of extreme selfishness where you feel free to kill people and who gives a ****?

and, btw, you forgot the emotion of FEAR, which is not gonna go away with the tons of selfish, flat out MEAN people like turner and, i guess, you yourself
   52. . Posted: October 28, 2020 at 04:54 PM (#5986262)
- and you prefer, what, a state of extreme selfishness where you feel free to kill people and who gives a ****?


I prefer a state of far fewer people in an emotionally unhealthy state.

Nor do I consider people who have given COVID to other people who have then died to have "killed" those people.(*) I consider that extreme and false rhetoric which only serves to stoke further outrage (TM). Ultimately, I consider that to have been stoked in you (**) and the massive amount of others who now express such things, and not really your "true" selves. (It is the true self of a distinctly small minority, but that doesn't apply here.)

(*) I can kind of get behind "extreme selfishness," maybe, but not the "killed." I typically choose my words carefully particularly when they involve opprobrium being cast upon other people, which probably pisses a lot of people off, but I can't help it. So when I read the word "killed" there, it immediately becomes almost my sole focus. If that comes off dickishly -- maybe it does -- guilty as charged. I really do believe it's an extreme word that flows from the outrage-o-sphere atmosphere.

(**) By social media and the climate it engenders.
   53. JRVJ Posted: October 28, 2020 at 05:01 PM (#5986265)
48, good question.

One would hope that this is looked at in detail, both to determine the weak part of the bubble (to get ready for 2021) as well as to determine if Dodgers players and/or personnel have been respecting that bubble.
   54. tshipman Posted: October 28, 2020 at 05:37 PM (#5986278)
I would imagine it's another lemon pepper wings situation. Turner almost certainly left the bubble and got infected.
   55. JRVJ Posted: October 28, 2020 at 05:42 PM (#5986281)
54, might not have been Turner, but that's certainly a strong possibility.
   56. Captain Joe Bivens, Elderly Northeastern Jew Posted: October 28, 2020 at 05:55 PM (#5986287)
I'm vaguely familiar with the lemon pepper wings story. An interesting euphemism.
   57. Walt Davis Posted: October 28, 2020 at 06:13 PM (#5986295)
A work colleague's mother just died -- she was in the UK. His dad (also UK) has covid. Australia is one of the few countries that is not allowing its residents to leave the country without permission which seems surprisingly and needlessly difficult to get, even in situations such as his. (Note he would be forced into 2 weeks' quarantine upon return so unlikely to pose any risk to Australia; I don't know what the UK's rules are for the moment for arrivals.)

Now obviously I think it's fine to question the rigidity of the Australian government's regulations here. Obviously we would all understand if my colleague somehow found a way to get to his mother's funeral. And since he's not infected, we might even think he did nothing wrong in doing so, only putting himself at greater risk. But people are missing funerals and weddings for the greater good. It's not much to ask of Turner and the Dodgers to behave responsibly.

What if Turner had been beaned in his last PA and needed to go to the hospital. We'd all be saying what a shame it was that he missed the celebration but thank god he's been taken care of. This is even worse -- he's not the one at riske, he's being asked to miss out so as not to put others at risk.

But sure, I understand he wants to be on the field, I understand his teammates want him on the field. So what? To quote one of the beloved president's frequent rally (unapproved) songs: "You can't always get what you want..." That's why you regulate behavior.

And seriously ... didn't want to wear the mask for the photo? That's a legit reason now?

(Aside: Turner seems very charsimatic, I didn't see much of the series but he had a lot great grins and seemed really joyful at joyful times. A happy Turner boucning around the field in celebration is something I think would be a good thing for baseball in normal times. It sucks that this happened to him ... it sucks it happens to anybody ... but forgoing a celebration is simply not a substantial sacrifice.)

he might be sick even though he seems fine

Not what this is about. It's not "he might be sick", he IS infected and (almost certainly) contagious. How he feels is immaterial, the concern is not that Turner was going to do himself harm by participating.

Not symptomatic and not infected (to his knowledge) would of course be understandable.

Not symptomatic but known to be infected is completely and totally different.
   58. Ziggy: social distancing since 1980 Posted: October 28, 2020 at 06:20 PM (#5986296)
First things first, I'm pretty sure Primer byelaws prohibit quoting or responding to SBB. I'll let y'all off with a warning this time, but next time there will be court dates involved.

>

I get the thought in #37, but the relevant risk isn't to Turner's teammates (who didn't seem to mind having him there, from what I saw as I sunk off to go to sleep), it's to everyone else. I hope no one loses a parent because Turner wanted to celebrate with his buddies. But they might.
   59. Tom Goes to the Ballpark Posted: October 28, 2020 at 09:07 PM (#5986330)
I would imagine it's another lemon pepper wings situation. Turner almost certainly left the bubble and got infected.
I don’t think there is any reason to assume that at this point. A member of Tampa’s “bubble” tested positive today and it seems unlikely that would come from Turner. Once MLB started allowing fans into the stadium it was only a matter of time until the “bubble” popped.
   60. Howie Menckel Posted: October 28, 2020 at 09:19 PM (#5986334)
Once MLB started allowing fans into the stadium it was only a matter of time until the “bubble” popped.

are the fans getting those guided tours of the clubhouses these days? and those are supposed to take place hours before any players are present.

:)

(side note: stadium and arena tours are - ok, were - almost ubiquitous and almost daily in season and out, but seemed to be little known. I took some relatives from Indiana on the Yankee Stadium one about 15 years ago. you got to walk through the tunnels and down into the dugouts, which are deeper than fans realize. the field is greener from there that they can believe, too, and BITD they'd let you walk on the field down in fair territory to the warning track. was not surprised by the gasps about getting to visit the clubhouse, which back then still had the Thurman Munson locker/shrine. but was stunned by the giddiness of people for getting to sit in the press box for a few minutes.)
   61. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: October 28, 2020 at 10:54 PM (#5986356)
I'd recommend that everyone here take a day or two and try to make those days devoid of finding people at whom you wish to fling rhetorical bile and refraining from flinging such bile.
As always, obvious troll is obvious.
   62. Hank Gillette Posted: October 29, 2020 at 03:07 AM (#5986377)
If celebrating WINNING THE F*CKING WORLD SERIES WITH YOUR TEAMMATES isn't the time to tolerate a smidgen of Covid risk, society doesn't deserve to continue.


He wasn’t the one taking the risk. He was forcing it on his teammates and anyone else that he got close to. Did he get signed released from everyone before exposing them? What a prick.
   63. Lassus Posted: October 29, 2020 at 09:46 AM (#5986395)
If celebrating WINNING THE F*CKING WORLD SERIES WITH YOUR TEAMMATES isn't the time to tolerate a smidgen of Covid risk expose those teammates and their families to a potentially fatal disease, society doesn't deserve to continue.

Seems legit.
   64. jmurph Posted: October 29, 2020 at 10:16 AM (#5986409)
I’d wait for more info before casting too much blame, but the current era seems to demand an immediate reaction.

Yes, certainly too early to... point fingers at the... one guy we know is positive, who... refused to follow the rules and went out on the field to celebrate, at which point he... removed his mask.

Clearly, no time for the blame game, gotta hear both sides.
   65. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 29, 2020 at 10:19 AM (#5986412)
Yes, certainly too early to... point fingers at the... one guy we know is positive, who... refused to follow the rules and went out on the field to celebrate, at which point he... removed his mask.
True that. We have to wait to see if he actually infected anyone else. Just like you don't yell at your kid for running into the street unless he actually gets hit by a car.
   66. JRVJ Posted: October 29, 2020 at 11:57 AM (#5986430)
I re-read this thread, and I still can't believe people are excusing Turner.

Good God, you've been told that you have an incredibly infectious disease, and have been asked to isolate for the well being of your teammates, the Rays, umpires, team and MLB officials, media, player families.... and you HAVE to go out on the field anyway?

Let's not mince words: Turner's actions were incredibly wreckless. I truly hope that nobody else comes down with COVID - 19 after Turner's escapade, so we don't have to talk about Turner's actions in a criminal context, but there is such a thing as involuntary manslaughter.
   67. BDC Posted: October 29, 2020 at 11:59 AM (#5986431)
stadium and arena tours are - ok, were - almost ubiquitous and almost daily in season and out, but seemed to be little known

I have never done this for a baseball stadium, but I have done them at the Cowboys Stadium and also at the Dean Dome in Chapel Hill NC. (I have this thing for domes.) It is very cool. I went with a nephew to the Cowboys Stadium and he got to see Tony Romo's locker and the Cheerleaders' dressing room and then they let him throw footballs around on the field. Of course I just stood around acting blasé.
   68. . Posted: October 29, 2020 at 12:40 PM (#5986443)
I have never done this for a baseball stadium, but I have done them at the Cowboys Stadium and also at the Dean Dome in Chapel Hill NC. (I have this thing for domes.) It is very cool. I went with a nephew to the Cowboys Stadium and he got to see Tony Romo's locker and the Cheerleaders' dressing room and then they let him throw footballs around on the field. Of course I just stood around acting blasé.


I did it at Stamford Bridge as part of a hospitality ticket for a Chelsea match with my then 10 year old son. It was a zillion times better than it would have been in an American stadium; we walked through the tunnel, got to sit in Mourinho's seat while the guide talked about the history of the club and the park, etc. They then served up food in the club museum which was actually very good food, mainly Indian. Son will remember that one the rest of his life and who knows maybe talk about it wistfully in whatever passes for BTF or STF in like 2055.
   69. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 29, 2020 at 01:06 PM (#5986450)
the Cheerleaders' dressing room
Unoccupied, I assume?
   70. . Posted: October 29, 2020 at 04:05 PM (#5986550)
Not to get too, too political here but we have to take note of what's going on. I've already expressed my high level of worry about the coming 30-60 days and the data enhances that worry. While Biden is leading in most of the big media polls, just as Clinton did, the early voting data in all the battleground or even non-battleground states is showing things the Dems don't want to see. Generally speaking, the idea here is that the Dems need a certain lead in pre-ED voting to offset the expected Repub lead in ED voting. So then we can track the pre-ED data to see if that lead is actually happening. It's a bit like the Hall of Fame voting monitor. That's not showing up in the least and in some places, even the opposite. There are some caveats here -- the assumed translations of early votes to total votes might be off -- i.e., it's assumed but not proven that the portion of Republican/Trump vote that goes to the polls on election day in person is (a) a relatively predictable amount; and (b) a certain amount higher than the same proportion for Dems/Biden. It's also not fully known, but merely modeled/assumed, that the number of Republicans/Democrats who cast early ballots will translate into a relatively predictable amount of Trump/Biden votes.(*) But with that said, if the estimates for those translations hold, the data are terrible for Biden as we sit here today. (Tens of millions of actual ballots have already been cast, which makes the polls less and less impactful as prediction methods; I'd at this point roughly look at the public polls as ERA, and the peripheral data in the already-cast ballots as FIP. Biden is the pitcher with a nice ERA, but terrible peripherals.) Moreover, Biden is traveling to Minnesota this weekend and he shouldn't be in a place where he has to defend Minnesota at this late point. There are still several days until Election Day, but the signs are very much there that It Could Be Happening Again. I'm hoping for a Biden definitive victory as, among other things, it's the easiest path to normalcy through the transition, but there's very little chance that's going to transpire.

(*) Even here, though, the signs are bad. The odds that Biden will get more Republican votes than Trump gets Democratic votes is next to nil.

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