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Baseball Primer Newsblog — The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand Wednesday, September 14, 2011Keith Law: MoneyballI’m sorta reminded of the time Effin’ Stink Lad (non-LOSH) cruised a dump on D.O.A.: A Rite of Passage because he was too close to the action.
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Posted: September 14, 2011 at 10:46 AM | 326 comment(s)
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Ironically enough my brother was a huge Spice Girls fan (don't ask), so I ended up seeing bits and pieces of that movie several times over the next couple years.
I've never heard of this movie.
The only film I ever walked out of was Spaced Invaders.
I am well aware that you can make a lousy movie while remaining faithful to the source material -- Gettysburg is about as bad a movie as I've ever seen for instance -- but certain forms of artistic license annoys me more than is sensible.
Bands, though ... bands I've definitely walked out on. Like the ghastly Jane's Addiction & the horrible Red Hot Chili Peppers at the end of the first two Lollapaloozas.
Walked clear the hell out. What a cartoonish movie (even setting aside the aliens) and a horrid performance by Harrison Ford.
Well, these real-life scouts weren't forced to appear in the film so they probably are fine with the caricature.
We get it. Law could have summed up his disgust in one sentence: "I really, really had hoped for a three-hour docu-drama that would have played for barely one week before a stat-geek audience [and no one else] at E Street and the Bethesda Cinema and Drafthouse."
HOWEVER, I once had the HONOUR of getting preview passes to see Battlefield Earth. Two of the cast were in attendence. One fellow (a tall guy who played an alien) was sitting in front of us with his friends. He said he had not seen the movie yet!
Half way through the movie someone pulled the fire alarm. While we were waiting for the m to give us the all-clear the fellow sheepishly asked his friends if they minded if they left. They did not argue.
Wow, did I feel bad for the poor guy...
I wanted to walk out of "Mission Impossible II" and "Hannibal" but I was with friends who wanted to stay, so I closed my eyes and went to sleep.
Agreed. Didn't expect Keith to like it. Keith is the Jay Sherman of scouts.
He may be right, this may be a lousy movie, but from this and other reviews it seems Law was unable to get to a mental place where he accepted that this (like all "based on a true story" movies) was going to take some liberties.
Anyway, after 20 minutes of nonsense I left and sat in the truck and listened to a Cubs game.
I had the same experience. In fact, it was the first movie I saw without parents; I was 10 and went with a friend. Bad idea. I still haven't seen the whole thing.
I might have walked out of Damage, but I can't remember. Maybe I just fell asleep.
I would see pretty much anything at the dollar theater in my teen years but those two flicks were too awful to sit through.
Taking your girls to see a man in a bathtub is being a good dad?
Which, sadly, wasn't yet an option when you walked out of the premiere of Birth of a Nation.
Obviously I had no information in advance as to the content of the movie. Most expected something similar to the Purple Rain movie which I understand is/was a musical.
Anyway, they came out a half hour later and I took them to the mall where again I stayed in the truck and listened to the game.
My girlfriend at the time (now my wife) wanted to see Back to the Beach, a Franky Avalon and Anette Funicello movie where the wrinkled pair go BACK to where it all started. It was so putrid that we left.
Well they both have stupid nonsensical endings.
Birth of a Nation is pretty fascinating.
Only distantly related to the conversation my aunt Ethel took a lot of razzing throughout her adult life based on her pronouncement that after seeing her first moving picture in a theater in Iowa City that 'moving films had no future'.
I work in a research department. Whenever we devise something new - even if it's a new way to do something that other departments have been doing for decades - and meet with our internal customers to walk them through it, there will be a portion of the audience who will say what we're doing is worthless. That's fine, and we welcome that feedback on the rare occasion when what we've devised is in fact worthless. (Then again, when we produce something worthless, we drop it before it even gets to the customer for feedback.) But there are a few of those folks who will invariably claim the new thing is "worthless - just as I'd expected".
When we get that feedback, it's hard to take it seriously. We rarely produce something worthless - and when we do, we recognize it as such and drop it - so we haven't deserved that kind of a priori expectation. So, we're left with this: is it really worthless, or is it that these people decided beforehand that it would be worthless and we failed to convince them otherwise? And if it's the latter, would anything have convinced them?
Over several years, what I've found is that some of those people enter into the whole thing heavily invested in the notion that what we're going to present to them must be wrong. They want it to be wrong. Maybe they don't like the implication that they've been doing something wrong for decades, or that they needed us to tell them how to do their jobs right. Maybe they're only slightly involved in the work we're discussing but don't want to be painted with a broad brush as being associated with something needing improvement, or that they don't like their friends being painted with that brush. Maybe it's something else.
Regardless, I've now reached the point that if someone reviews anything and starts with "it's bad, which is what I completely expected", that opinion doesn't move the needle for me. Far too often that encapsulation reflects the reviewer far more than it reflects the work being reviewed. Hey, maybe it doesn't, but that's my point: the objectivity, and thus the usefulness, is questionable. It leads me down the path of asking, "Is there any reason I should expect the subject matter to offend the reviewer? And if so, is there a risk that the review is not objective?"
In this case, hell yeah. The reviewer is a writer on scouting, objecting to the inaccurate portrayal of scouts; he's a former assistant-to-the-GM, objecting to the inaccurate portrayal of GMs. This, after being OK with exaggerations or fabrications in The Social Network because, as he put it, "Since it’s not pitched as a documentary, I don’t have a huge issue with this." The way the review is written I get the sense that the key to the plot is the the notion that Billy Beane the character had his job on the line; but the reviewer rejects that notion for the character simply because it wasn't true in real life. The reviewer is clearly bringing in too much exogenous baggage to allow enjoyment of the movie, which means I can't tell if the problem is the limitations of the movie or the limitations of the reviewer. In short, it is certainly possible that Keith is correct about the movie, but I find it highly unlikely that he is objective about it.
Is Moneyball a movie I'll like? Beats me. Do I want it to be a good movie? Only if I'm going to see it, which given my schedule these days is not very likely. Does this review help me figure out if it's good? No.
Oh, you ain't kiddin'. I wish I could've walked out of that P.O.S., but I was assigned to write a review of it for my college newspaper. Normally, when I saw a crap movie, writing the review was fun just because I could take the piss out of it, but Alexander was so bad I couldn't even enjoy writing about it.
I rememeber walking out of this, but I honestly have no idea what I was doing there in the first place.
Agreed. Didn't expect Keith to like it. Keith is the Jay Sherman of scouts.
I ####### love "The Critic". One of my favorite TV shows.
I have never seen it, but everyone I know (in real life not the internet) who has seen Beyond Therapy, describes it as the worst movie they have ever scene (including 2 people who saw- and walked out on- Nightfall with me)
Regarding Alexander, I watched that damn thing the whole way through out of morbid curiosity- I know Oliver Stone is batshit insane (and seemingly getting crazier by the minute)- but none of his films that I've seen were un-entertaining and un-watchable trainwrecks like that one.
Wait a minute, penguins can't fly!
Somebody tell this Luddite about sunk costs!
(Signed,
Someone who's never walked out of a movie.)
I had heard that movie freaked people out, I didn't see it until it came on TV- and boy was I disappointed- the werewolf was not remotely as realistic/scary as I was expecting, otoh it was a lot funnier than I had anticipated
A really good and underrated show. Its cancellation was a duketastrophe.
Often a trainwreck of a movie can be entertaining in a "so bad it's good" kind of way, like Showgirls, or otherwise have some redeeming performance/quality, but Alexander was the perfect storm of suck. I think I made it about 40 minutes before I crumbled.
I wanted to walk out "Tron Legacy", but I was with a couple of friends and decided to take a nap in the middle of it.
I should have walked out of "Matrix Reloaded" (the 2nd one?). Then, I wouldn't have felt obligated to see the third movie ("Revolutions"?), hoping it would explain the stupid #### from the 2nd movie. Both were horrible, and I refuse to admit that they are extensions of the wonderfully entertaining "The Matrix".
The Fly 2
Men at Work (The film)
And I was enjoying Men at Work. Laughing away. Then I caught my breath, said to myself "This is as good as it gets isn't it?". Then walked out.
You should have stayed at least long enough to see the exquisite Rosario Dawson in all her splendour.
This is a big part of the reason I've never walked out of a movie. I don't go to many movies so when I do go I'm usually either really excited to see it or with a large group of people. The few times I've seen a movie that I didn't feel like seeing was to escape the heat or some other similar ancillary reason where there was no benefit in leaving even if the movie sucked.
Well yes, there was that. Of course, to get there you have to sit through a good hour of Angelina Jolie attempting a Greek (?) accent.
Now THERE'S an adaptation I would pay good money to see.
Greeks (and all other ancient Europeans) have British accents when they speak English. Movies have taught me this.
I actually think Back to the Beach was ok. You, sir, are a monster!
I give it my highest rating -- seven out of ten.
Here it is
The scenes with the ghost of the dead friend are a little disturbing. Particularly the bit in the movie theater, where the ghosts of the victims are all arguing with each other and trying to convince him to kill himself.
And I think Keith's review is summarized pretty well by 45.
Trust me: Nine bucks an hour ain't enough.
I didn't have cable so I followed the 2004 playoffs on a mixture of radio and Fox's Online streaming "Plate Cam!", which essentially let you look up Jason Varitek's nose for 9 innings while the TV commentary played.
So when I saw Fever Pitch (I guess some time in 2005?) it was the first time I saw how close the play was on Dave Roberts' steal. I usually try to refrain from speaking at all during movies but I think I embarassed everyone I was with with an extremely loud "Jesus ####### Christ that was close"
That's probably the worst movie I've ever seen (but I didn't walk out!). It's amazingly, jaw-droppingly bad. Other contenders are 1969, Wisdom, and Batman & Robin.
Often a trainwreck of a movie can be entertaining in a "so bad it's good" kind of way, like Showgirls, or otherwise have some redeeming performance/quality, but Alexander was the perfect storm of suck. I think I made it about 40 minutes before I crumbled.
One of my all-time favorite movie experiences was seeing The Shadow. I don't think I've ever laughed that much in a movie.
I had heard that movie freaked people out, I didn't see it until it came on TV- and boy was I disappointed- the werewolf was not remotely as realistic/scary as I was expecting, otoh it was a lot funnier than I had anticipated
The gore isn't scary. There's just something about the tone, esp. in the dream sequences. In that sense it's a far more effective horror movie than a lot of the recent slasher flicks. It's the same with The Shining.
And while I agree that the movie can be funny, IMO the humor seems to reinforce the eerie tone rather than softening it.
Edit: Well, that and the time we showed The English Patient where the projector broke down four times (once for a half hour!) and the film caught on fire twice. I don't think that really counts, though.
Oh man, talk about a let down. I'll watch just about anything with Winona Ryder, (hell, I stuck it out through "The Darwin Awards" and "The Ten") plus Robert Downey Jr. What could go wrong? Answer: EVERYTHING.
Probably the worst movie I've ever seen is "The Bachelor" with Chris O'Donnell. I got it free once with a pizza delivery. I think I lasted 15 minutes before I had to chuck the DVD out a window.
Gettysburg could've used Brian Wilson as a Beard Consultant.
People see what they expect to see. It works in the opposite direction, too: if a guy's spent weeks talking about this awesome concert that's coming up, by the time the concert actually happens it almost doesn't matter whether it's good or not. The guy's primed for awesome, he's going to walk away thinking it was awesome, and that is that.
Movies I've walked out on:
* M*A*S*H - second part of a double-feature with "Young Frankenstein" (which I loved). I was 10; the blood spurting in the early O.R. scene freaked me out.
* Shadows - Cassavetes; again, Part 2 of a double-feature. My girl & I just stuck around to see if it grabbed us, and it didn't.
* In the Company of Men - about 20 minutes in: "Jesus, this is painful. Why are we watching this? It's a nice day outside." So we left.
I've gone MST3K on too many movies to count.
My favorite was A Few Good Men, because it was unplanned & unintentional. That final courtroom scene just cracked me up. Still does.
I saw Passchendaele with my dad and a few of his friends. (While obviously they aren't WW1 vets they are mostly Canadian history teachers so they were pretty up for it). That was one of the most terrible experiences of my life.
NOTE: for those of you who haven't seen Passchendaele (I'm assuming, everyone) it's like Saving Private Ryan...except it's actually a love story, 80% of it takes place in Western Canada, and the writer (who also happens to be the director and main character) writes himself as a kind of Jesus figure. And when I say "kind of", I mean he ends the movie quite literally with him sacraficing his life to save others and dies stuck on some planks and barbed wire that looks an awful lot like a cross.
It is a pretty terrible movie, but it might be more offensive than bad.
They don't know what they're missing
They don't know what they're missing
They're missing half the movie
I've never walked out of a movie (and rarely stop watching in the middle with rentals/home tapings - Battlefield Earth was an exception). Not entirely sure why.
disturbing? It was effing hilarious.
Eerie tone? I don't get it, I know plenty of people who loved that movie and who said it was eerie and scary, and I honestly don't get it- some scenes are funny, the straight/scary scenes (except for the very beginning) just fall flat.
to each his own.
Kinda curious why Law refers to "Grady Fuson" as a character in the movie, though, since Fuson's name isn't listed as a character in the IMDB cast page.
I loved having permissive parents also, who let me see "Tommy" by myself when I was 11.
It's both, IMO, but to each his own.
I saw Videodrome as a double feature with 48 hours when I was a wee lad and I don't think I've recovered yet.
Eerie tone? I don't get it
That's the thing about horror – even more than humor, it depends on your mood going in. Personally, the scariest movie I ever sat all the way through was the original Wicker Man, which is quite understated. The horror there depends on your believing the situation could happen to a real person, and the understatedness helps a lot. But I can absolutely see someone watching The Wicker Man and giggling all the way through, or just being bored. (I cannot see anyone watching the Nicolas Cage version and not giggling.)
Speaking of Cage, the last film I went to where a lot of people walked out was Adaptation: I think they were bored, couldn't follow it. I was puzzled by it, but as with other Kaufman films, I had to see it again; I now like Adaptation more all the time.
I am much more likely to walk out of a play (usually disappearing at intermission) than a movie. Don't know why, except maybe I go to a lot of bad amateur plays.
This is one of the reasons movies have become such a different experience for me since I've become a parent.
Way back in college, I used to go to the movie theater a few times a week. I lived in Berkeley when the UC Theater was still around -- I'd go there, the PFA, catch some blockbusters at the other theaters. I had plenty of time to do the legwork (combing through the different calendars each theaters put out) and usually knew quite a bit about the movies I was about to see. Some were good, some were bad.
Now, every month or two there's a Friday night where me and my wife can leave the little one with my mother-in-law on a half-hour's notice and go see whatever sounds good at the time. I don't follow film anymore and I usually have no idea what's playing until we're out the door and checking movie times on my phone. Maybe we'll watch a trailer or read a review, maybe not.
And just as before, we see some good ones and some bad ones.
You didn't like Pulp Fiction? That's in my top ten movies of all time!
I agree. I liked it the first time, but after repeated viewings it has become better and better to me. Kind of the opposite of Eternal Sunshine for me, which I loved the first time but liked it a bit less the second time.
and re: 79 -- Unbearable got tedious but it had waaaay too much nudity to abandon.
Three to Tango
Rat Race
American Pie II
Yea, I love the movies where people must have thought they were getting something totally different. Along the lines of Punch Drunk Love was "Stranger Than Fiction" which starred Will Ferrell, but was not a typical Will Ferrell movie, and I recall what seemed like a few walk outs on that.
Have you ever been the ONLY person watching a movie? I can't recall the movie, but my girlfriend and I were once the only people in the entire theater and it was pretty awful. We joked we should watch the movie naked just to make it more interesting. I've definitely been to some very lightly attended matinees though. The people that saw this had a similar experience.
Subject matter was bad enough, but The Date also had trouble following the plot - "Who's this guy, now? Why is she going there?" etc.
Yes, she was that hot. Sigh.
Movies are a seriously dumb first date. "Let's go someplace where we can't talk for two hours."
EDIT:
One of my favorite moviegoing experiences was seeing "The Waterdance" at SF's Opera Plaza. It was just me and a little old lady, and sure enough she walked out about 15 minutes into the picture. I felt like Elvis, getting to enjoy a pretty darn good movie in my own private theater.
I've never walked out of a movie. In fact, I kind of like watching bad movies, because I want to see how bad they really are. To me, they're kind of like train wrecks. I want to look away, but can't. So on that note, one of the biggest train wrecks I've seen is Art Heist.
I don't read Law's writing that often, but it's not like he's a grizzled old scout or something like that. The guy majored in applied math at Harvard; he's one of the people who helped popularize sabermetrics around the time that the events in Moneyball were taking place. I see no reason to discount his review simply because of his background.
A few for me:
Peewee's Big Adventure
Back to the Future
Ghostbusters
Pirates of the Caribbean (the original)
Galaxy Quest
The Last Starfighter
The Karate Kid
Slither
When I was a freshman, one of the guys at my dorm asked a girl out on a date at the local art house cinema without knowing what was playing.
It turned out to be a one-night-only showing of "Cannibal Holocaust".
Yes, she was that hot. Sigh.
I went with a girl to see Election, which I loved and she hated. Despite her ample bosoms, I just couldn't look at her the same way. If she thought Election was too negative a movie, she wasn't going to be able to tolerate me, anyway.
On the first date I ever had we saw Brokedown Palace. Bad idea. I spent the majority of the time trying to hide my tears. 13-year-old me thought it was just the saddest movie in the world.
EDIT: And on the best date I ever had, we saw Superbad. I also cried that night, but for reasons of uncontrollable laughter.
Referring to Shooty's #95 and speaking of Reese Witherspoon, I did not expect to enjoy Legally Blonde as much as I did. Sure, it's formulaic as hell but she was just an absolute joy to watch.
Shrek
The last two Harry Potter movies
Super Troopers
The Matrix (took me about two minutes to change my mind)
Talladega Nights
40 Year Old Virgin (I then had the exact opposite experience when I went to see Knocked Up)
It turned out to be a one-night-only showing of "Cannibal Holocaust".
That movie is ###### up. And not in a "wow, this movie is creepy or messed up" kind of way but in a "who ever thinks this constitutes making movie is a sadistic and cruel human being" kind of a way.
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