Since they were interested in Bellinger and signed Kiermaier we can say the Jays were willing to punt offense in CF to get good defense now I guess.

>$1, <$100,000,000

I was surprised Kiermaier was still around until I realized I’d combined his career with Franklin Gutiérrez’s.

Frankvin Kiergutmaierez is putting together a good career.

In 10 major-league seasons covering just 914 games, despite being an OF whose career bests (not in the same season) are 15 HR, 55 RBI, 62 runs, 25 doubles, 40 BB, and .276/.338/.450 (his career OPS+ is 98), Kevin Kiermaier has already generated 31.8 WAR.

That's 5.6 WAR per 162 games, rather astonishing.

He also has to be high on the list of Most Handsome Players of his era.

This is such an unusual career that I was inspired to re-subscribe to "Stathead."

Basically, if you search for similar batters centered on Kiermaier in terms of career PA and OPS+, he is streets ahead of anyone else defensively. Even Franklin Gutierrez! The other vaguely comparable guys are catchers and Dansby Swanson.



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Generated 12/12/2022.

That's for complete careers. If you search through age 32, Stathead picks up Mark Ellis, who went on to have a considerably longer career, contributing defensively but dropping a bit as a hitter down to 92 career OPS+. Here they are through 32:



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Generated 12/12/2022.

Basically, if you search for similar batters centered on Kiermaier in terms of career PA and OPS+, he is streets ahead of anyone else defensively. Even Franklin Gutierrez! The other vaguely comparable guys are catchers and Dansby Swanson.

It would be interesting to know what criterion kicks out the most similar players.

I assume Kiermaier is pretty unusual because anyone who is an average-ish hitter and as good as him defensively would normally get a lot more playing time. He has relatively few PAs because he started somewhat late (age 24), missed a lot of time (only one season with >130 games) and one season was shortened due to the pandemic.

Frequently injured players are usually not that great defensively. Maybe there are exceptions who happened to be much better or worse than Kiermaier offensively.

For some reason, I half thought Kiermaier had already been on the Blue Jays...chalked it up to something I probably came across in a DMB or OOTP league along the way...then I realized that I've combined Kevin Pillar and Kiermaier in my own mind...they were at least similar-ish enough in their early careers (though Kiermaier is clearly better) that I don't feel too silly for that.

So much for the Rays getting a decent one team player. I thought he would stick.

Interesting, Inge, you are surely right. As a result, Kiermaier (for similar age and PAs) tends to be ahead of comparable defenders as a hitter, and ahead of comparable hitters as a defender.

Maybe the closest comp through age 32 is Art Fletcher, Giants' shortstop from 110 years ago. Fletcher stayed in the lineup more consistently but was still frequently spelled, and didn't become a starter till he was 26.



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Generated 12/12/2022.

Fletcher had several good years left at that point (1917-18), but in decreasing playing time. "When his brother and his father both passed away in the spring of 1921, Art went back to Collinsville and sat out the entire 1921 season." I hope nothing like that happens with Kiermaier. Fletcher came back and played decent ball for the 1922 Phillies at age 37.

I wasted about an hour yesterday trying to find players similar to Kiermaier and wasn't satisfied with the results.

Dwayne Murphy was kinda similar, but a better hitter. Devon White, maybe, but he was more of a basestealer than Kiermaier. Lorenzo Cain isn't a bad comp, but was also a better hitter through age 32.

Other guys like Franklin Gutierrez, Kevin Pillar, Michael A. Taylor, etc., didn't measure up for some reason or other.

So much for the Rays getting a decent one team player. I thought he would stick.

I think the Rays are now back to Desmond Jennings as the greatest franchise lifer. I'm legitimately frightened to know who might be second if you exclude active players.

I'm legitimately frightened to know who might be second if you exclude active players.

Jeff Niemann, since you always exclude active players.

Interestingly, Desmond Jennings is not the worst best one-team player. That honor, I believe, belongs to the Jays' Luis Leal.

I think Vlad and Bichette (for the moment, at least) are ahead of Leal and couple other youngsters are close.

Today I learned that Dave Stieb started 4 games for the White Sox.

I think Vlad and Bichette (for the moment, at least) are ahead of Leal and couple other youngsters are close.

And in the unlikely event any of these gentlemen play their entire careers with the Blue Jays and no one else, they can take their place at the top of the list. But history tells us that's extraordinarily unlikely to happen, which is why active players are ineligible.

Stieb would have been an outstanding representative, given he's the team's best player, had it not been for the brief stint in Chicago. Kelly Gruber would have at least lifted them out of the bottom spot were it not for 18 career-ending games in Anaheim.

Stieb would have been an outstanding representative, given he's the team's best player, had it not been for the brief stint in Chicago. Kelly Gruber would have at least lifted them out of the bottom spot were it not for 18 career-ending games in Anaheim.

John Stearns had two PAs with the Phillies before spending the remaining 10 years (3081 PA) of his career with the Mets.

John Stearns had two PAs with the Phillies before spending the remaining 10 years (3081 PA) of his career with the Mets.

And he would have comfortably topped the Mets list until Wright came along.

You know what a masochist does? He reads the comments at MLB Trade Rumors. Man that's a cesspool of nonsense, the web-based equivalent of talk radio.

Don't be a masochist.

And [Stearns] would have comfortably topped the Mets list until Wright came along.

Knew that but forgot about it. Thanks.