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Thursday, April 22, 2010

LoHud: Jennings: Rodriguez, “I’ve never quite heard that”

The whole thing started when Rodriguez went from first to third on a foul ball by Robinson Cano. On his way back to first, Rodriguez ran across the pitcher’s mound, which Braden saw as a sign of disrespect.

“I don’t care if I’m Cy Young or the 25th man on the roster, if I’ve got the ball in my hand and I’m on that mound, that’s my mound,” Braden said. “… He ran across the pitcher’s mound foot on my rubber. No, not happening. We’re not the door mat anymore.”

Rodriguez said he had never heard the unwritten rule that a player shouldn’t run across the mound. When Braden started yelling at him, Rodriguez didn’t know what it was about. “I thought it was pretty funny, actually,” Rodriguez said.

Braden, though, went out of his way to call out Rodriguez. He spoke very kindly of the Yankees organization, but took great exception to Rodriguez.

“He should maybe watch his Captain a little more often,” Braden said.

Thoughts on this unwritten rule?

NJ in NY (Now with two kids!) Posted: April 22, 2010 at 11:02 PM | 336 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: amateur

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   1. Danny Posted: April 22, 2010 at 11:10 PM (#3511286)
I've never heard it before, but I loved watching Braden yell at him. "Stay off my mound. Stay the #### off my mound!"

A-Rod said he had no idea what was going on in his postgame interview, then said it was surprising to hear that from a guy with a "handful of wins in his career."

Edit: Also, one of the A's broadcasters said A-Rod has been known to drag his foot over a pitcher's landing spot as he walks across the mound.
   2. Chimpo's guys are savages in the box. Posted: April 22, 2010 at 11:16 PM (#3511290)
Great Ghu, what a silly thing to get upset about. I hope Rodriguez treats this with all the attention it deserves.
   3. Tuque Posted: April 22, 2010 at 11:19 PM (#3511297)
Next time he should take a running leap over the mound.
   4. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: April 22, 2010 at 11:23 PM (#3511301)
I can't say I've ever seen a player run over the mound going back to first from third, but I guess it makes sense. If the pitcher's on it though, I don't know why you wouldn't just go around a little. Kind of a weird thing to do, but A-Rod's kinda weird and getting upset about it seems weird too.
   5. A Random 8-Year-Old Eskimo Posted: April 22, 2010 at 11:25 PM (#3511305)
I have never heard of this unwritten rule. But, I also can't recall another instance of a player running directly across the mound when I think about it.
   6. Guapo Posted: April 22, 2010 at 11:27 PM (#3511310)
It's too bad Braden didn't take it to the next logical step and refuse to let C.C. Sabathia use the mound.
   7. GuyMcGuffin Posted: April 22, 2010 at 11:28 PM (#3511315)
Yeah, you don't run across the mound.
   8. Steve Treder Posted: April 22, 2010 at 11:30 PM (#3511318)
I've never heard of this unwritten rule, and I suspect Rodriguez is sincere when he says he's never heard of it either. But if it's the case that Rodriguez did this just to rattle Braden, then, well played, A-Rod.
   9. bobm Posted: April 22, 2010 at 11:33 PM (#3511324)
“He should maybe watch his Captain a little more often,” Braden said.

The only good use of the Jeter-worship is as a contrast to the A-Rod assholery. As a isolated incident, fine whatever. But add it to the "mine" pop-up, whacking the first baseman to try to knock out the ball, PEDs, Madonna, the mannish Toronto hooker: WTF?
   10. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: April 22, 2010 at 11:35 PM (#3511330)
Edit: Also, one of the A's broadcasters said A-Rod has been known to drag his foot over a pitcher's landing spot as he walks across the mound.


And people complain that A-Rod doesn't make his teammates better!
   11. Hang down your head, Tom Foley Posted: April 22, 2010 at 11:41 PM (#3511344)
To apologize, A-Rod should commission a painting of Braden as a centaur.
   12. Guapo Posted: April 22, 2010 at 11:44 PM (#3511349)
A centaur bellowing as he proudly stands upon a mound of gold.
   13. Robert in Manhattan Beach Posted: April 22, 2010 at 11:51 PM (#3511357)
Just ARod being tool-ly. Right in his wheelhouse.
   14. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: April 22, 2010 at 11:52 PM (#3511361)
“He should maybe watch his Captain a little more often,” Braden said.


In fact, if you look at Jeter right at this moment, he's not running across the mound. He spends hours every day not doing it.

Honestly, how hard is this?
   15. Hang down your head, Tom Foley Posted: April 22, 2010 at 11:56 PM (#3511370)
In fact, it's safe to say that, for every unwritten rule in baseball, Jeter is the one who didn't write it down.
   16. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: April 22, 2010 at 11:59 PM (#3511373)
It's so hard to keep all of these unwritten rules straight. Somebody really needs to write them all down.
   17. xbhaskarx Posted: April 23, 2010 at 12:02 AM (#3511378)
   18. The importance of being Ernest Riles Posted: April 23, 2010 at 12:08 AM (#3511386)
Braden is awesome. Don't #### with him, he's from Stockton. You know who else is from Stockton? That's right: Pavement, #############.
   19. bond1 Posted: April 23, 2010 at 12:21 AM (#3511408)
I always thought it was kinda weird that batters run across the field of play to return to the home dugout after making an out while the ball is live. Suppose there's a runner on second and the hitter hits a fly to left. The hitter rounds first when the ball is caught. Now the hitter who is out continues to trot between the pitchers mound and third base on his way back to the dugout. What if the runner decides to tag or run? The ball is still live and you've got a player on the filed who shouldn't be there. In fact, everytime a runner is out on ground ball to first I see them cut across right in front of the mound. I know in high school and kids' leagues runners tend to stay in foul territory to return to the dugout but the pros always cut across the filed when the ball is live.
   20. Freeballin' (Tales of Met Power) Posted: April 23, 2010 at 12:22 AM (#3511410)
I've never heard of this unwritten rule, and I agree with it. Also, f**k A-Rod.
   21. frannyzoo Posted: April 23, 2010 at 12:23 AM (#3511411)
Maybe the starting pitcher should urinate slowly, deliberately upon the entire circumference of the mound. Maybe ARod should have peed right on the rubber.

And yes, "peed right on the rubber" has definite band name, artistic possibilities.
   22. For the Turnstiles (andeux) Posted: April 23, 2010 at 12:26 AM (#3511416)
The awesomest thing about Braden is the handlebar mustache tattoo on the side of his index finger.
(Sadly, a quick search doesn't turn up any pictures of it. WTF, internet?)
   23. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: April 23, 2010 at 12:26 AM (#3511417)
“He should maybe watch his Captain a little more often,” Braden said.


I like how that's capitalized, as if Jeter is God or a Realtor.
   24. xbhaskarx Posted: April 23, 2010 at 12:33 AM (#3511430)
More quotes, and video of the incident

The awesomest thing about Braden is the handlebar mustache tattoo on the side of his index finger.
(Sadly, a quick search doesn't turn up any pictures of it. WTF, internet?)


link
   25. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 23, 2010 at 12:38 AM (#3511433)
Never heard about the "rule", but I like Braden's attitude.
   26. Infinite Yost (Voxter) Posted: April 23, 2010 at 12:38 AM (#3511434)
I think maybe the unwritten rule here is that Dallas Braden is a ########. Because I've never heard one about not running across the mound.
   27. GotowarMissAgnes Posted: April 23, 2010 at 12:40 AM (#3511438)
It's so hard to keep all of these unwritten rules straight. Somebody really needs to write them all down.


Done

http://www.bernsteinbooks.com/books/baseball_code.aspx

Anybody gotta a copy and can see if this rule is in there?
   28. Infinite Yost (Voxter) Posted: April 23, 2010 at 12:41 AM (#3511440)
FURTHERMORE. Unwritten rules are horseshit. They're just excuses for ####### to get butthurt about nothing and vent their testosterone in public.
   29. birdlives is one crazy ninja Posted: April 23, 2010 at 12:44 AM (#3511444)
Maybe the starting pitcher should urinate slowly, deliberately upon the entire circumference of the mound.

It worked for Jacob in reining in the smoke monster.

Dallas Braden is a bad ass.
   30. Matt Welch Posted: April 23, 2010 at 12:47 AM (#3511453)
Dallas Braden is my new favorite A. Competition is a lovely thing.

And I think it's less an unwritten rule and more just an obvious etiquette thing. I wonder sometimes if A-Rod is the most physically fit Asperger's case known to man.
   31. xbhaskarx Posted: April 23, 2010 at 12:47 AM (#3511454)
I think maybe the unwritten rule here is that Dallas Braden is a ########. Because I've never heard one about not running across the mound.

Location
Brooklyn, NY

Michael Duca, co-author of “The Baseball Codes: Beanballs, Sign Stealing and Bench-Clearing Brawls: The Unwritten Rules of America’s Pastime,” said the running-over-the-mound rule was known better years ago.

“It was a very common but no longer very well known unwritten rule,” Duca told FanHouse. “It was very common in the ’40s, ’50s and ’60s. Bob Gibson was very well versed in protecting what he called his office. He told people to say the … out of my office. Had that been Gibson on the mound, A-Rod would have picked himself off the grass to get back to first. He would have decked him. No question about it.”

link

Now call Bob Gibson a ########, ########.
   32. Hugh Jorgan Posted: April 23, 2010 at 12:48 AM (#3511455)
What an odd occurance really. I've never seen any baserunner run across the mound before to get back to first. When playing very, very low level ball here, I always retrace the steps of the basepaths, as most baserunners do.
It just seems so A-rod, that he's kind of careless and unthinking like that. I'm sure there wasn't any nasty intent to
A-rod's jaunt across the mound, but it's the kind of thoughtless thing you'd expect from him. I think in general he gets given a hard time, but then he does something silly like this without any thought and you reckon, well maybe he is kind of a d*ckhead.
   33. Yardape Posted: April 23, 2010 at 12:56 AM (#3511465)
“It was a very common but no longer very well known unwritten rule,” Duca told FanHouse. “It was very common in the ’40s, ’50s and ’60s. Bob Gibson was very well versed in protecting what he called his office. He told people to say the … out of my office. Had that been Gibson on the mound, A-Rod would have picked himself off the grass to get back to first. He would have decked him. No question about it.”


Riiiight...if Gibson had knocked someone down like that, he`d have been thrown out of the game. I don`t think that was going to happen.
   34. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: April 23, 2010 at 01:01 AM (#3511479)
To apologize, A-Rod should commission a painting of Braden as a centaur.

This thread should have pulled a Costanza after that, and said, "That's it, I'm outta here." Well played, Tom Foley.
   35. Infinite Yost (Voxter) Posted: April 23, 2010 at 01:07 AM (#3511500)
Now call Bob Gibson a ########, ########.


I don't think there's anybody in the world other than Bob Gibson's mother who doesn't know that Bob Gibson is a ########, #######.
   36. Francoeur Sans Gages (AlouGoodbye) Posted: April 23, 2010 at 01:08 AM (#3511501)
The only good use of the Jeter-worship is as a contrast to the A-Rod assholery. As a isolated incident, fine whatever. But add it to the "mine" pop-up, whacking the first baseman to try to knock out the ball, PEDs, Madonna, the mannish Toronto hooker: WTF?
But these aren't all alike.

I don't know if A-Rod did this to rattle Braden, but if he did, that's awesome. Similarly, I thought the "mine" pop-up and the slap were great. I love a guy playing hard to win, and it's all the more awesome when it's a great player. When I was a kidlet the first sport I got into was tennis and my heroes were Lendl and Courier because I felt they did the most with the least. It's why, despite the racism and whatnot, Ty Cobb is my favourite ever baseball player - that kind of take-no-prisoners attitude and an absolute commitment to winning are kind of what define the real essence of competition to me. I don't want to see a bunch of guys pussyfooting around then shaking hands afterwards - I can do that with my friends. When I pay to watch the world's greatest athletes I want them to put it all on the line. The PED issue is different though.

Of course I realise this is my own personal view, YMMV, etc etc. You can see that as assholish if you like. But calling him an ####### because he has different taste in women to you? That's silly.
   37. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: April 23, 2010 at 01:10 AM (#3511510)
When playing very, very low level ball here, I always retrace the steps of the basepaths, as most baserunners do.

Well, everybody over here cuts across the diamond. Why? Because it's shorter.
   38. The_Ex Posted: April 23, 2010 at 01:13 AM (#3511517)
I suspect Rodriguez is sincere when he says he's never heard of it either

A-Rod being sincere? I guess there is a first time for everything.
   39. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: April 23, 2010 at 01:15 AM (#3511527)
But calling him an ####### because he <strike>has different taste in women to you</strike>makes more money in a year than your extended family will see in their collective lifetimes? That's silly.

More to the real point, no?

EDIT: What the...? It worked in the preview.
   40. JMPH Posted: April 23, 2010 at 01:16 AM (#3511533)
Braden looked like a total jackass with his little temper tantrum.
   41. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: April 23, 2010 at 01:17 AM (#3511537)
A-rod's jaunt across the mound, but it's the kind of thoughtless thing you'd expect from him. I think in general he gets given a hard time, but then he does something silly like this without any thought and you reckon, well maybe he is kind of a d*ck
Rodriguez isn't thoughtless, he does that stuff on purpose. He wants to get under people's skin, he wants to mess with you just a bit, just to throw you off, just to let you know he's better than you are. His problem is that he doesn't know how to turn that off.
   42. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: April 23, 2010 at 01:19 AM (#3511542)
Well, everybody over here cuts across the diamond. Why? Because it's shorter.
Sure, but now that I think about it, I can't remember anyone ever jogging back to the dugout via the mound in the middle of an inning.
   43. Bob Tufts Posted: April 23, 2010 at 01:24 AM (#3511551)
Bob Gibson should have auditioned for Richard Roundtree's role in "Shaft".
   44. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: April 23, 2010 at 01:26 AM (#3511557)
If he really drags his foot across the pitcher's landing spot on the way back across the diamond he deserves a heater to the earhole.
   45. JMPH Posted: April 23, 2010 at 01:28 AM (#3511561)
If he really drags his foot across the pitcher's landing spot on the way back across the diamond he deserves a heater to the earhole.

That's pretty tame coming from you. It must not be too bad.
   46. Everybody Loves Tyrus Raymond Posted: April 23, 2010 at 01:30 AM (#3511569)
I'm sorry, but A-Rod is a douche. I don't buy he was unaware of this particular baseball norm for a minute. Gamesmanship, pure and simple. Kudos to Braden for telling Mr. Boli to shove it. IIRC, there was a similar incident a few years ago with A.J. Pierzynski. I think a pitcher took exception to how close he ran to the mound on his way back to the dugout.
   47. The importance of being Ernest Riles Posted: April 23, 2010 at 01:31 AM (#3511574)
Well, everybody over here cuts across the diamond. Why? Because it's shorter.

Ah yes, the well known Pythagorean theorem of baseball!
   48. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: April 23, 2010 at 01:31 AM (#3511576)
That's pretty tame coming from you. It must not be too bad.


He hasn't personally insulted me, so I give him leniency. The Braves' current tendency to make Kyle Kendrick and 72-year old men look unhittable, on the hand...
   49. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: April 23, 2010 at 01:34 AM (#3511582)
Not having heard of this rule either, I called my buddy who pitched a couple years in the minors. I asked him what he would have done in this situation, and he basically said he would have reacted the same way as Braden. And, he added, he wouldn't have thought any player in the majors would even consider running across the mound, knowing how pitchers would react.

And for what it's worth, he's a big Yankee fan.
   50. Powderhorn™, arrogant local sailing champion Posted: April 23, 2010 at 01:41 AM (#3511592)
I agree with Voxter. Unwritten rules seem to exist entirely so players can (1) avoid being embarrassed, (2) mark their territory and (3) have a license to whine. I hate 3 and am not crazy about two, either, so Braden just comes off as a toddler throwing a tantrum to me. Shut up and pitch. I don't like The Rod, and I'm not ever likely to, but he did nothing wrong here.
   51. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: April 23, 2010 at 01:49 AM (#3511614)
Shut up and pitch. I don't like The Rod, and I'm not ever likely to, but he did nothing wrong here.


On the other hand, ARod could not be a complete and total ####### and abide by the etiquette of the sport.
   52. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: April 23, 2010 at 02:28 AM (#3511671)
I miss battlefob sometimes.
   53. NJ in NY (Now with two kids!) Posted: April 23, 2010 at 02:41 AM (#3511675)
Is there video of A-Rod actually running across the mound anywhere?
   54. jwb Posted: April 23, 2010 at 02:54 AM (#3511681)
I wonder sometimes if A-Rod is the most physically fit Asperger's case known to man.
Nope, this guy fits into the 'people can't do that' category.
   55. Eddo Posted: April 23, 2010 at 02:57 AM (#3511683)
Maybe Braden's angling for a trade to the Cardinals, and is trying to show La Russa he'd fit right in?
   56. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: April 23, 2010 at 03:00 AM (#3511685)
I also doubt that A-Rod didn't know the "rule", but Braden's reaction seemed over-the-top and childish. It's a pitcher's mound, not a DNA lab -- it's not like A-Rod is going contaminate it by walking across it.

By the way, regarding this quote from Braden:

“The guy was tasting himself too long to apologize...”

I have never heard the phrase "to taste oneself" before, but I like it.

I don't know if A-Rod did this to rattle Braden, but if he did, that's awesome. Similarly, I thought the "mine" pop-up and the slap were great. I love a guy playing hard to win, and it's all the more awesome when it's a great player. When I was a kidlet the first sport I got into was tennis and my heroes were Lendl and Courier because I felt they did the most with the least. It's why, despite the racism and whatnot, Ty Cobb is my favourite ever baseball player - that kind of take-no-prisoners attitude and an absolute commitment to winning are kind of what define the real essence of competition to me. I don't want to see a bunch of guys pussyfooting around then shaking hands afterwards - I can do that with my friends. When I pay to watch the world's greatest athletes I want them to put it all on the line.

Is slapping the ball out of Arroyo's hand or yelling "Mine!" at a fielder really "putting it all on the line"? Not to mention, he was still called out on the slap. Just like here, where he "rattled" Braden into getting Cano to ground into a double play to end the inning. I can understand loving Ty Cobb's style of play, or A-Rod's talent and drive, but there seems to be a fundamental difference between them.
   57. Greg Goosen at 30 Posted: April 23, 2010 at 03:17 AM (#3511693)
Friday morning's NY Post will have Phil Mushnick writing how terrible Bud Selig is for not having a written rule to cover this and it is television's fault because they want arguments and fights on camera.

Selena Roberts's unnamed sources will say that ARoid has instructed Oakland's Latinos to not get base hits or catch flyballs when Braden Bunch is pitching for his next handful of wins.

Mike Francesspool will claim he knew of this unwrttten role and instructed his good friend Alex to do this.
   58. mex4173 Posted: April 23, 2010 at 03:29 AM (#3511696)
I've always thought the "Mine!" thing got a bum rap, something about it seems fundamentally different from those other incidents.
   59. Best Dressed Chicken in Town Posted: April 23, 2010 at 03:39 AM (#3511700)
I miss battlefob sometimes.

I miss The Rod sometimes.
   60. Dave Spiwak Posted: April 23, 2010 at 03:40 AM (#3511701)
I don't know if A-Rod did this to rattle Braden, but if he did, that's awesome. Similarly, I thought the "mine" pop-up and the slap were great. I love a guy playing hard to win, and it's all the more awesome when it's a great player. When I was a kidlet the first sport I got into was tennis and my heroes were Lendl and Courier because I felt they did the most with the least. It's why, despite the racism and whatnot, Ty Cobb is my favourite ever baseball player - that kind of take-no-prisoners attitude and an absolute commitment to winning are kind of what define the real essence of competition to me. I don't want to see a bunch of guys pussyfooting around then shaking hands afterwards - I can do that with my friends. When I pay to watch the world's greatest athletes I want them to put it all on the line. The PED issue is different though.


A-Rod is the Hispanic Ty Cobb.
   61. Best Dressed Chicken in Town Posted: April 23, 2010 at 03:43 AM (#3511703)
I've always thought the "Mine!" thing got a bum rap, something about it seems fundamentally different from those other incidents.

Completely disagree. From what I've heard, he didn't actually shout "Mine" or anything like it, he just made a noise. But I think shouting "Mine" or "I got it" is ###### up, because of the serious risk of injury if two fielders run into each other if they don't call each other off. On the other hand, I think the ball slapping incident is OK. Why not, if someone's gonna hold their glove out there?
   62. James Kannengieser Posted: April 23, 2010 at 03:50 AM (#3511704)
STFU Braden. Mountain, mole hill. Another prissy ballplayer getting bent out of shape about nothing.
   63. The District Attorney Posted: April 23, 2010 at 04:00 AM (#3511706)
Bill James on the subject:
I've never heard of such a rule. To be honest, people are always coming up with unwritten rules that you're not supposed to do something that they don't happen to like, but usually, it's some old manager who is upset about a kid bunting to break up a no-hitter or something. THAT'S annoying, but when it's a fairly anonymous player springing an unwritten rule on a 34-year-old Hall of Famer who has been on the All-Star team since Dallas Braden was in the 6th grade. . .well, what can you say?
   64. xbhaskarx Posted: April 23, 2010 at 04:07 AM (#3511708)
but when it's a fairly anonymous player springing an unwritten rule on a 34-year-old Hall of Famer who has been on the All-Star team since Dallas Braden was in the 6th grade. . .well, what can you say?


What do performance and age have to do with it? He's basically repeating A-rod's "Especially from a guy that has a handful of wins in his career" comment.
That's the same bullsh!t that got Jeter walked after swinging at strike three TWICE yesterday. Rules are supposed to apply to everyone.

And we'll see about the Hall of Fame...
   65. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: April 23, 2010 at 04:22 AM (#3511710)
I've never heard of such a rule. To be honest, people are always coming up with unwritten rules that you're not supposed to do something that they don't happen to like, but usually, it's some old manager who is upset about a kid bunting to break up a no-hitter or something. THAT'S annoying, but when it's a fairly anonymous player springing an unwritten rule on a 34-year-old Hall of Famer who has been on the All-Star team since Dallas Braden was in the 6th grade. . .well, what can you say?


You could say that Bill James is a statistician and perhaps not as knowledgeable about in-game etiquette for players *actually on the field.* You could say that the relative merits of Alex Rodriguez' case for the HOF or his being older than Braden are utterly irrelevant to the question of whether Rodriguez' behavior was contrary to traditional on-field respect for your opponent. You could say that the fact that Rodriguez was "on an All-Star team since Dallas Braden was in the 6th grade" in no way whatsoever makes it apparent that he is in the right and Braden in the wrong. You could point out that Dallas Braden, young whippersnapper though he may be, had probably logged more hours actually playing baseball by his 6th grade year than Bill James has ever managed, and as such he may have a better understanding of on-field etiquette than James. Or you could say that this incident has absolutely nothing to do with the statistical analysis of the game of baseball or the evaluation of player performance, and as such, Bill James knows dick-all what he's talking about and should perhaps "pass" on the question altogether.
   66. 668 - Neighbour of the Beast Posted: April 23, 2010 at 04:22 AM (#3511711)
I'm a little disappointed in Bill James. That is about what I expect from the rod.

Braden rocks!
   67. Best Regards, President of Comfort, Esq., LLC Posted: April 23, 2010 at 04:39 AM (#3511720)
On the other hand, I think the ball slapping incident is OK. Why not, if someone's gonna hold their glove out there?
Well, that's against the written rules. And it hurt the team -- Jeter ended up back on first instead of on second.

In that play, you plow into the guy as hard as you can to try to dislodge the ball. But trying to slap it out with your hands is explicitly a rules violation.
   68. Lassus Posted: April 23, 2010 at 04:53 AM (#3511725)
You could say that Bill James is a statistician and perhaps not as knowledgeable about in-game etiquette for players *actually on the field.* You could say that the relative merits of Alex Rodriguez' case for the HOF or his being older than Braden are utterly irrelevant to the question of whether Rodriguez' behavior was contrary to traditional on-field respect for your opponent. You could say that the fact that Rodriguez was "on an All-Star team since Dallas Braden was in the 6th grade" in no way whatsoever makes it apparent that he is in the right and Braden in the wrong. You could point out that Dallas Braden, young whippersnapper though he may be, had probably logged more hours actually playing baseball by his 6th grade year than Bill James has ever managed, and as such he may have a better understanding of on-field etiquette than James. Or you could say that this incident has absolutely nothing to do with the statistical analysis of the game of baseball or the evaluation of player performance, and as such, Bill James knows dick-all what he's talking about and should perhaps "pass" on the question altogether. Bill James should get off my lawn and go watch a game sometime.

FTFY. :-D

(Banks, yet, BTW?)
   69. Avoid Running At All Times- S. Paige Posted: April 23, 2010 at 04:54 AM (#3511726)
Or you could say that this incident has absolutely nothing to do with the statistical analysis of the game of baseball or the evaluation of player performance, and as such, Bill James knows dick-all what he's talking about and should perhaps "pass" on the question altogether.


James has been working in a baseball organization for a while now. He's been surrounded by baseball people. He's also a baseball historian of sorts, who's done a bunch of research about what has happened on the field, and whose writing often is about the fun little minutia of the game. I'm not saying that Braden is wrong here, but I do think it's compelling that James has never heard of the unwritten rule. He's not just a statistical analyst. He's an observer, as well.
   70. Zipperholes Posted: April 23, 2010 at 05:04 AM (#3511730)
If the "mine" thing is true, I have a problem with that because deceiving your opponent in order to win (w/r/t things not integral to the game) is dishonorable. It's cowardly.

As for unwritten rules about "being disrespected," get the #### over yourself. You throw a leather ball for people's entertainment.
   71. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: April 23, 2010 at 05:34 AM (#3511736)
James has been working in a baseball organization for a while now. He's been surrounded by baseball people. He's also a baseball historian of sorts, who's done a bunch of research about what has happened on the field, and whose writing often is about the fun little minutia of the game. I'm not saying that Braden is wrong here, but I do think it's compelling that James has never heard of the unwritten rule. He's not just a statistical analyst. He's an observer, as well.


And he's wrong just the same. As I alluded to in 49, my friend who pitched minor league ball was stunned that anyone would run across the mound. The reason few of us has heard of this unwritten rule is not because Braden made it up, but because guys just don't do it, so it never comes up.
   72. Lassus Posted: April 23, 2010 at 05:43 AM (#3511737)
And he's wrong just the same. As I alluded to in 49, my friend who pitched minor league ball was stunned that anyone would run across the mound. The reason few of us has heard of this unwritten rule is not because Braden made it up, but because guys just don't do it, so it never comes up.

I certainly believe that it's an unwritten rule, which doesn't change the fact that I think it's babyish. People not walking on "your" mound doesn't mean they respect you - they respect you when they can't get a hit off you.
   73. Hecubot Posted: April 23, 2010 at 05:54 AM (#3511738)
I don't know if it's an unwritten rule, but it's rude. And it's definitely in keeping with previous A-Rod behavior. It's totally bush.

Aside from that, Braden's stance is not unlike a basketball defender clotheslining a guy going in for an easy layup. It's not legal, but it's about laying down the law.

A-Rod will take one in the ribs by an A's pitcher before the season is over. I'm guessing it won't be Braden, but probably Sheets. But I wouldn't mind if Bailey ran a 96 mph four seamer into A-Rod's ribcage.

Incidentally, I think the line about "tasting himself" is a reference to A-Rod's Esquire photo shoot where he's kisisng himself in the mirror.

Bottom line, Braden gets the win and staves off the sweep.
   74. spanx for the memories Posted: April 23, 2010 at 06:01 AM (#3511740)
Incidentally, I think the line about "tasting himself" is a reference to A-Rod's Esquire photo shoot where he's kisisng himself in the mirror

I hope so because the other scenario makes me throw up in my mouth a little.


Arod is the Morris Day of baseball
   75. Avoid Running At All Times- S. Paige Posted: April 23, 2010 at 06:06 AM (#3511741)
It's also possible that not every player or even most players know this unwritten rule. It might be a small section of players (they all seem to look like "Creed" fans by the way, these player who spout off about the rules) who are aware of this stuff.
   76. New York Necks Posted: April 23, 2010 at 06:09 AM (#3511742)
A-Rod owns
   77. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: April 23, 2010 at 06:10 AM (#3511743)
I certainly believe that it's an unwritten rule, which doesn't change the fact that I think it's babyish. People not walking on "your" mound doesn't mean they respect you - they respect you when they can't get a hit off you.


It really doesn't matter what we think of the unwritten rules (which exist in many walks of life beyond baseball, though those other areas don't necessarily have message boards devoted to them). If the vast majority of the big leaguers live by a certain set of rules, written or just passed down, then the guy who brazenly ignores them is going to be rightfully criticized, regardless how sensible those rules seem to outsiders.
   78. Lassus Posted: April 23, 2010 at 06:26 AM (#3511745)
then the guy who brazenly ignores them is going to be rightfully criticized

I guess this is the part would personally disagree with, replacing "rightfully" with "stupidly", but that's a subjective thing. I'm trying to think of a particular instance in regular life. Maybe one of those moronic "bro" rules or something. Just because everyone does it doesn't mean it makes any damn sense.
   79. bumpis hound Posted: April 23, 2010 at 06:31 AM (#3511746)
Best. Popcorn. Thread. Ever.

Billy Beane should never have written The Book.
   80. Avoid Running At All Times- S. Paige Posted: April 23, 2010 at 06:31 AM (#3511747)
Again, this is true, SoSH, if the majority of baseball players are aware of these rules, not just Creed fans. Also, there is a possibility, given the diverse background of players these days, that there are several different "traditions" people are following, and that these traditions sometimes clash.
   81. bumpis hound Posted: April 23, 2010 at 06:54 AM (#3511749)
Maybe one of those moronic "bro" rules or something.

I so look forward to wandering into some lawyer's or doctor's office, or linger behind a bar or into a chef's kitchen, then watching him freak out, just so I could tell him not to STFU & not be so bro about everything. I'll bet it's crazy liberating etc.
   82. Something Other Posted: April 23, 2010 at 07:18 AM (#3511753)
I don't know if A-Rod did this to rattle Braden, but if he did, that's awesome. Similarly, I thought the "mine" pop-up and the slap were great. I love a guy playing hard to win, and it's all the more awesome when it's a great player. When I was a kidlet the first sport I got into was tennis and my heroes were Lendl and Courier because I felt they did the most with the least. It's why, despite the racism and whatnot, Ty Cobb is my favourite ever baseball player - that kind of take-no-prisoners attitude and an absolute commitment to winning are kind of what define the real essence of competition to me. I don't want to see a bunch of guys pussyfooting around then shaking hands afterwards - I can do that with my friends. When I pay to watch the world's greatest athletes I want them to put it all on the line. The PED issue is different though.

Of course I realise this is my own personal view, YMMV, etc etc. You can see that as assholish if you like.
I prefer to cut to the chase, and before the game starts I just jog over to the other team's best player and kick him in the nuts as hard as I can. This other candyass jogging across the pitcher's mound, sneaky slash you with my spikes and hope the ump isn't looking bullsh!t is utter childishness. Play to win, motherf*uckers!
   83. Lassus Posted: April 23, 2010 at 07:24 AM (#3511754)
I so look forward to wandering into some lawyer's or doctor's office, or linger behind a bar or into a chef's kitchen, then watching him freak out, just so I could tell him not to STFU & not be so bro about everything. I'll bet it's crazy liberating etc.

Wandering into someone's private office? That doesn't even make any sense. If you want to be more accurate, it's more like sitting at the same table someone uses in the office cafeteria every day, and yes, that kind of reaction there WOULD be ridiculous.

Here's the clip (not of the walk-across, though). Ken Singleton, who may have played for a few years, seems generally befuddled, although mentions an "incident" as he thinks about it. Look at Braden's reaction as he goes in the dugout, seriously. A-Rod's the douche?
   84. bumpis hound Posted: April 23, 2010 at 07:34 AM (#3511757)
If you want to be more accurate, it's more like sitting at the same table someone uses in the office cafeteria every day, and yes, that would be ridiculous. Wandering into someone's private office? That doesn't even make any sense.

Disagree. Just because it's in the open doesn't make it an open space.

I've been large stages before, as a musician, and god forbid you wander too far or linger too long in the lead guitarist's or singer's space. They're professionals; they need to focus; they need their space. As did I. Willfully disregarding this is disrespectful. Not criminal or anything, but definitely a douche move.

But go ahead and deny the smoke & fire. I'm sure A-Rod and Milton Bradley are both super glad they have people willing to defend their stupidity.

EDITED: for me def crossing the douche line.
   85. Shock Posted: April 23, 2010 at 07:35 AM (#3511758)
Yeah, seriously. That temper tantrum is ridiculous. What a freaking baby.
   86. rfloh Posted: April 23, 2010 at 07:55 AM (#3511759)
Can someone who has watched Braden's starts these year provide a brief scouting report? I've always had the impression that he was a finesse type pitcher, albeit one with a screwball (which the A's don't want him using). Where did the jump in K rate come from?
   87. Lassus Posted: April 23, 2010 at 08:13 AM (#3511760)
I'm sure A-Rod and Milton Bradley are both super glad they have people willing to defend their stupidity.

Milton Bradley? WTF?

If you feel the need to defend Braden's actions as he leaves the field, go ahead.


I've been large stages before, as a musician, and god forbid you wander too far or linger too long in the lead guitarist's or singer's space. They're professionals; they need to focus; they need their space. As did I.

I missed where A-Rod was walking over the mound as Braden was pitching to a hitter or even making warm-up throws. Did you or the people you saw freak out when someone walked by during a sound check or break? As a musician, I've seen plenty of tantrums myself, some even worse than Braden's. Doesn't mean they're immune from scrutiny or justified in every case, IMO. It may be just me. I'm a professional musician, I do concentrate, and I do get paid. I'm just not a drama queen about it.
   88. Greg Goosen at 30 Posted: April 23, 2010 at 08:15 AM (#3511761)
Suppose ARoid trips running on the mound because of the height change (or plants his foot awkwardly on the pitching rubber) and tears ligaments in his legs. Small chance but not impossible.

Also if ARoid wants to mess with a pitcher's mind, why hasn't he tried this with the likes Josh Beckett, Roy Halladay etc instead of a pitcher with a handful of wins?
   89. Lassus Posted: April 23, 2010 at 08:34 AM (#3511762)
I'm just not a drama queen about it.

And nor are a majority of musicians or athletes. Or adults.
   90. God Posted: April 23, 2010 at 08:58 AM (#3511763)
If the "mine" thing is true, I have a problem with that because deceiving your opponent in order to win (w/r/t things not integral to the game) is dishonorable. It's cowardly.

That's exactly the same argument that people used when trying to get the curveball banned in the 1880s. (Incidentally: How is catching/dropping a popup not integral to the game?)

Personally, I think the "mine" thing was brilliant, and it made me think a little more highly of A-Rod, who I normally dislike.
   91. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: April 23, 2010 at 09:58 AM (#3511768)
I've been large stages before, as a musician, and god forbid you wander too far or linger too long in the lead guitarist's or singer's space. They're professionals; they need to focus; they need their space. As did I.

I missed where A-Rod was walking over the mound as Braden was pitching to a hitter or even making warm-up throws. Did you or the people you saw freak out when someone walked by during a sound check or break?


Whitney Houston pitched a fit when someone got out of their seat and walked down the aisle towards the stage at a Fort Lauderdale concert a few years back. She halted the concert to berate the woman on what I suppose she considered the "unwritten rules of music." Maybe Braden is just smoking crack.
   92. Hates to Face Premium Posted: April 23, 2010 at 10:18 AM (#3511769)
I'm surprised no one has mentioned this yet. In Braden's post-game tirade he said, "...We're not the doormat anymore."? I can't figure out what he's trying to say. If he had said, "It's not the doormat anymore?" You'd think he was talking about, ya know, the pitcher's mound. But he said, "we're, not the doormat...". This could be interpreted in a few different ways, no? Pitchers aren't the doormat? The A's aren't the doormat? (a gutty statement of gritty, small-market determination?). Strange.
   93. Lassus Posted: April 23, 2010 at 10:19 AM (#3511770)
he said, "...We're not the doormat anymore."

And then threw a chair.
   94. The NeverEnding Torii (oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh) Posted: April 23, 2010 at 10:22 AM (#3511771)
Arod is the Morris Day of baseball


If A-Rod's big pick-up line to Madonna, Kate Hudson or The Toronto Fiasco was "Your lips would make a lollipop TOO happy", then I now like A-Rod approximately .09% more.

A-Rod: ::struts past a Boston bar full of Red Sox fans:: "How's the family? BWAHA!!"
   95. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: April 23, 2010 at 10:32 AM (#3511773)
If Rodriguez is Morris Day then I'm anxiously awaiting his Jerome to deposit Braden in a nearby dumpster.

I certainly wouldn't be surprised if Alex had a brass waterbed, surrounded by plants and lights and sh!t.
   96. New York Necks Posted: April 23, 2010 at 11:11 AM (#3511777)
Quotes!
A-Rod: He just told me to get off his mound. That was a little surprising. I’ve never quite heard that. Especially from a guy that has a handful of wins in his career.

Braden: I don’t have a handful of wins. I only have three. Do the math, A-Rod.


That's not really a comeback, Dallas Braden.
   97. . Posted: April 23, 2010 at 11:29 AM (#3511781)
That's not really a comeback, Dallas Braden.

He could have said what a lot of players and fans rightly think -- that A-Rod is far and away the douchiest douche in baseball. (**) There's an unwritten rule against such things though, so Braden sugarcoated it.

(**) A-Rod's "gamer" moves -- the purse slap in the ALCS, "Mine!!," and now this -- represent an unbroken pattern of douche. He no longer has the "small sample size" defense trotted out after the purse slap. Pulling "rank" -- I'm A-Rod, fairest of them all, and he's Dallas Braden -- after a quintessentially d-bag move isn't exactly what you'd call strict adherence to the First Rule of Holes.
   98. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: April 23, 2010 at 11:31 AM (#3511783)
That's not really a comeback, Dallas Braden.

Who cares. Good for Braden. It's good to see the A's with some fire after sleepwalking through the last couple of years. Rodriguez, as usual, is quite the douche. Nothing will come of this, though. The A's aren't going to plunk l'il Alex and it'll probably be forgotten in short order. It's really a nothing story.

Also, I love Brad Ziegler. He made his two innings look ridiculously easy yesterday.
   99. Run Joe Run Posted: April 23, 2010 at 12:05 PM (#3511791)
Did Arod run over the top of the mound or around the back? He shouldn't run on the mound.
   100. CFiJ Posted: April 23, 2010 at 12:26 PM (#3511794)
Yay, Braden. Boo, A-Rod. Yay, unwritten rules.
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