Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Monday, June 10, 2019

Max Muncy trades verbal barbs with Madison Bumgarner in Dodgers’ win - Los Angeles Times

By the time Muncy rounded first the two were in a full-blown argument, screaming and gesturing at each other. Plate umpire Will Little intervened, but the two were still jawing at each other as Muncy pulled into the plate.

“He took exception to me watching the ball, I guess,” Muncy said of Bumgarner. “He said, ‘You don’t watch the ball. You run.’ ”

And Muncy’s response?

“I told him, ‘If you don’t want me to watch the ball, you can go in the ocean and get it,’ ” he said. “I don’t even know if he heard it. As I was rounding the bases, I yelled it at him. He was yelling at me. We were kind of going back and forth and that was it. Just a couple guys competing.”

Jim Furtado Posted: June 10, 2019 at 06:07 AM | 159 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: dodgers, madison bumgarner, max muncy

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 1 of 2 pages  1 2 > 
   1. Jeff Francoeur's OPS Posted: June 10, 2019 at 10:02 AM (#5849913)
Geez, if you watch the replay, it barely registers on the stop-and-stare scale. Bumgarner was pissed from the first pitch of the game.
   2. Swoboda is freedom Posted: June 10, 2019 at 10:25 AM (#5849919)
I just looked at the video and boy are you right. He hit it, looked at it for 1 step, walked 2 steps and starting running. Bumgarner is a tool.
   3. Jeremy Renner App is Dead and I killed it Posted: June 10, 2019 at 10:35 AM (#5849923)
Is Bumgarner upset that he is being discussed for trades? Is that making him even weirder than usual?
   4. Misirlou gave her his Vincent to ride Posted: June 10, 2019 at 10:51 AM (#5849933)
Bumgarner was pissed about a previous pitch in the AB. But he can't yell at the ump without getting tossed, so he took it out on Muncy. Bush league. And Muncy's retort was lame. What does it even mean?
   5. Itchy Row Posted: June 10, 2019 at 10:56 AM (#5849937)
Bumgarner and the umpire were trading "verbal barbs" after the first hitter. Muncy was the second hitter. Maybe MadBum can keep up that pace and pick a fight with a different person after every hitter he faces in his next start.
   6. SoSH U at work Posted: June 10, 2019 at 10:58 AM (#5849938)
If letting the kids play is OK, then letting the old ##### grump is equally valid. As long as Bumgarner and co. restrict their reactions to mere barking (which, obviously, many of them don't), and not fastballs delivered to the sternum, those actions should be greeted with the same shrug of the shoulders.

   7. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: June 10, 2019 at 10:58 AM (#5849939)
It would be more interesting if they were trading physical barbs.
   8. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: June 10, 2019 at 10:59 AM (#5849940)
“I told him, ‘If you don’t want me to watch the ball, you can go in the ocean and get it,’ ” he said.
I get what you're trying to do, there, Max, but that...just doesn't make any sense.
   9. SoSH U at work Posted: June 10, 2019 at 11:04 AM (#5849946)
I get what you're trying to do, there, Max, but that...just doesn't make any sense.


On several levels.

   10. JL72 Posted: June 10, 2019 at 11:04 AM (#5849947)
Bumgarner and the umpire were trading "verbal barbs" after the first hitter. Muncy was the second hitter.


Seemed pretty clear that Bumgarner was pissed at the umpire and blamed him for giving up the gofer ball to Muncy, but couldn't yell at him. So decided to yell at Muncy instead.
   11. Itchy Row Posted: June 10, 2019 at 11:10 AM (#5849950)
"Yeah, well, the ball called from the ocean's jerk store, and they're running out of you!"
   12. Nasty Nate Posted: June 10, 2019 at 11:14 AM (#5849953)
If letting the kids play is OK, then letting the old ##### grump is equally valid. As long as Bumgarner and co. restrict their reactions to mere barking (which, obviously, many of them don't), and not fastballs delivered to the sternum, those actions should be greeted with the same shrug of the shoulders.
You're bordering on "you should tolerate my intolerance" territory...

The sentiment behind letting players celebrate is not "anything goes!"
   13. jmurph Posted: June 10, 2019 at 11:17 AM (#5849954)
And Muncy's retort was lame. What does it even mean?

I get what you're trying to do, there, Max, but that...just doesn't make any sense.

On several levels.

How are three of you confused by this?

A. The obvious subtext of the comment was "I just hit the ball into the ocean* so I'll watch it all I want and you can go #### yourself if you don't like it."
B. But it also makes literal sense, too! "You're mad I'm not running and am instead watching the ball I just hit fly into the ocean*? If you go and fetch it I won't have to do that because it will be right here in front of me instead of 450 feet away, in the aforementioned ocean!"

*I suspect SoSH is making a "it's the bay not the ocean" joke, which I approve of, I can get behind that kind of pedantry.
   14. SoSH U at work Posted: June 10, 2019 at 11:17 AM (#5849955)
You're bordering on "you should tolerate my intolerance" territory...


Nonsense. Barking at an opposing player is just as harmless as flipping your bat (unless the bat hits someone, then that's very much not harmless) or Brian Wilson/Eckersley/Derek Lowe-style post K machinations.
   15. Nasty Nate Posted: June 10, 2019 at 11:18 AM (#5849957)
Harmlessness is not the threshold in question

But, yes, Bumgarner's reaction should not spur any sort of physical retaliation.
   16. SoSH U at work Posted: June 10, 2019 at 11:19 AM (#5849958)

B. But it also makes literal sense, too! "You're mad I'm not running and am instead watching the ball I just hit fly into the ocean*? If you go and fetch it I won't have to do that because it will be right here in front of me instead of 450 feet away, in the aforementioned ocean!"


No, that doesn't make sense. If you don't want me to watch it, don't let me hit it a mile makes sense. If you don't want me to watch it, then you should retrieve it simply doesn't.

*I suspect SoSH is making a "it's the bay not the ocean" joke, which I approve of, I can get behind that kind of pedantry.


Yeah, that was the other level.

   17. Lassus Posted: June 10, 2019 at 11:22 AM (#5849963)
I'm with jmuprh in #13; but even if it made no sense, just reminding Bumgarner that his pitch is now in the goddamned ocean is good enough.
   18. Cowboy Popup Posted: June 10, 2019 at 11:24 AM (#5849966)
No, that doesn't make sense. If you don't want me to watch it, don't let me hit it a mile makes sense. If you don't want me to watch it, then you should retrieve it simply doesn't.


Yeah, there is at the least a temporal element here. How can he stop you from watching the ball by getting it out of the ocean *before* it gets to the ocean?

I'm fine with the line, because if you hit the ball in the ####### water, hell, you get to say whatever you want. And I respect just nonsensically bringing up the fact that you hit the ball in the water. But I don't think the come back is all that coherent or sensible.
   19. SoSH U at work Posted: June 10, 2019 at 11:24 AM (#5849967)
Harmlessness is not the threshold in question


Why not?

You can think Bumgarner is a dick for acting the way he does (I do). But it should ultimately be shrugged off the same way many of us expect with celebrations of any type. It's ridiculous to view one harmless (though not universally well-received reaction) as a great thing to extol, and another harmless (though not universally well-received reaction) as a sign of all that's wrong with the sport.

When either act turns to actual violence, that's when there's a problem. Before that, it's just a bunch of overgrown children doing what they do.

   20. Nasty Nate Posted: June 10, 2019 at 11:29 AM (#5849971)
You're basically saying: those of you who think it's OK to watch a HR are hypocrites if you disagree when Bumgarner says it's not OK to watch a HR.

They are contradictory positions.

But I agree that it should be shrugged off ... right into the ocean!
   21. PreservedFish Posted: June 10, 2019 at 11:31 AM (#5849972)
Maybe he meant: if you don't want to watch me watching my homerun, go get the ball. Out of the ocean.
   22. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: June 10, 2019 at 11:32 AM (#5849973)
“I can’t even say it with a straight face, but the more I think about it, they should let the kids play,” Bumgarner said, poking fun at a Major League Baseball promotional campaign. “That’s what everybody’s saying … but I can’t.

“If they want to let everybody be themselves, let me be myself. That’s me. I’d just as soon fight than walk or whatever. Just do your thing. I’ll do mine.”


Madison's thing is literally yelling at other people for doing their thing and telling them not to. Sure, he can do that, and I can continue to laugh at him.
   23. Fernigal McGunnigle Posted: June 10, 2019 at 11:32 AM (#5849974)
How great would it be to be playing in a MLB game and to hit the ball into the ####### ocean?
   24. BrianBrianson Posted: June 10, 2019 at 11:33 AM (#5849975)
Naw, it's okay to watch, and it's okay for Bumgarner to say it's okay not to watch. It's not a contradiction.
   25. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: June 10, 2019 at 11:34 AM (#5849976)
You're basically saying: those of you who think it's OK to watch a HR are hypocrites if you disagree when Bumgarner says it's not OK to watch a HR.

They are contradictory positions.


Both are OK. It's OK to like "look at me" antics (which Muncy didn't actually engage in), and say so, and it's OK to hate "look at me" antics, and say so.
   26. jmurph Posted: June 10, 2019 at 11:34 AM (#5849977)
Maybe he meant: if you don't want to watch me watching my homerun, go get the ball. Out of the ocean.

Ahh, an alternative activity, to fill the time. I like it.

It really works on numerous levels. Sea level, mainly.
   27. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: June 10, 2019 at 11:38 AM (#5849980)
How great would it be to be playing in a MLB game and to hit the ball into the ####### ocean?

Bay.
   28. Nasty Nate Posted: June 10, 2019 at 11:40 AM (#5849983)
edit: oops mixed up people
   29. SoSH U at work Posted: June 10, 2019 at 11:41 AM (#5849986)
You're basically saying: those of you who think it's OK to watch a HR are hypocrites if you disagree when Bumgarner says it's not OK to watch a HR.
They are contradictory positions.


How am I the one being contradictory?

I think all harmless behavior by baseballers should be, ultimately, treated the same.

You can like one type over the other. Just don't pretend it's anything other than personal preference, and not some logical line-drawing.

Let the kids preen. Let the cranks #####. Don't let either of them do physical harm.


   30. Nasty Nate Posted: June 10, 2019 at 11:42 AM (#5849987)
They are contradictory positions.

How am I the one being contradictory?
By calling it "ridiculous" for someone who likes celebrations/preening to express disagreement with someone (Bumgarner) who doesn't like celebrations/preening.
   31. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: June 10, 2019 at 11:45 AM (#5849990)
By calling it "ridiculous" for someone who likes celebrations/preening to express disagreement with someone (Bumgarner) who doesn't like celebrations/preening.

It's purely a matter of taste. It's like someone who like chocolate ice cream criticizing someone who hates chocolate ice cream.
   32. PreservedFish Posted: June 10, 2019 at 11:47 AM (#5849993)
Muncy's "thing" isn't calculated to bother anyone. (Unless it is, which sometimes it can be)

Bumgarner's thing isn't just calculated to bother someone, it's literally just bothering someone.
   33. SoSH U at work Posted: June 10, 2019 at 11:48 AM (#5849994)
By calling it "ridiculous" for someone who likes celebrations/preening to express disagreement with someone (Bumgarner) who doesn't like celebrations/preening.


You can like whatever you want. I'm calling the idea there's any substantive difference between two harmless acts ridiculous. That's where the actual contradiction rests.

   34. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: June 10, 2019 at 11:48 AM (#5849995)
"Yeah, well, the ball called from the ocean's jerk store, and they're running out of you!"
I just saw on the news that a whale washed up on the beach today in California. It was almost dead, but fortunately there was a stocky, balding marine biologist there to remove the baseball lodged in its blowhole.
   35. Cowboy Popup Posted: June 10, 2019 at 11:49 AM (#5849997)
Maybe he meant: if you don't want to watch me watching my homerun, go get the ball. Out of the ocean.

Ahh, an alternative activity, to fill the time. I like it.


Yeah, this resolves my issue with it. Well done.

It really works on numerous levels. Sea level, mainly.

Also well done.
   36. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: June 10, 2019 at 11:53 AM (#5850004)
The jerk store called and said this thread surely isn't running out of jerks.
   37. jmurph Posted: June 10, 2019 at 11:53 AM (#5850005)
You can like whatever you want. I'm calling the idea there's any substantive difference between two harmless acts ridiculous. That's where the actual contradiction rests.

There are many among us who see staring at a homerun or slow-walking a homerun before breaking into a jog akin to high-fiving the first base coach. Yelling at a batter for high-fiving the first base coach would be ridiculous.

Your entire premise only works if you see bat-flipping (and the like) as being problematic.
   38. Lassus Posted: June 10, 2019 at 11:53 AM (#5850006)
Bay.

Subset. Bay wouldn't exist if ocean didn't.
   39. Nasty Nate Posted: June 10, 2019 at 11:56 AM (#5850014)
The jerk store called and said this thread surely isn't running out of jerks.
If you don't want to read the thread, you can go to the ocean and, uh, go get the thread there.
   40. . Posted: June 10, 2019 at 11:58 AM (#5850020)
It's purely a matter of taste.


In actuality, yes, that's all it is -- but one has to remember that there's typically a racial angle involved which means the issue has become big business for the outrage industry and the lemmings who get their dopamine hits from being terminally outraged. In fact, essentially the entire issue is a creation of the outrage industry.(*) Which means there's no real there, there. It's all for show.

(*) And as the enabling features of the outrage industry -- social media -- have grown, so have virtually pari passu the number of bat flips. The medium is very much the message.
   41. BrianBrianson Posted: June 10, 2019 at 12:01 PM (#5850028)
Bumgarner's thing isn't just calculated to bother someone, it's literally just bothering someone.


If you don't like people bothering you, competitive, directly oppositional sports probably aren't for you.
   42. SoSH U at work Posted: June 10, 2019 at 12:02 PM (#5850029)
Your entire premise only works if you see bat-flipping (and the like) as being problematic.


Many baseball players see bat flipping as problematic. They take it as an insult, that the player is "showing him up." Same is true of some pitchers' post-strikeout antics. This is well understood by the participants.

Many baseball players see an opponent player yelling, "Just ####### run," as problematic. They take it as an insult, that the player is "showing him up." This is well understood by the participants.

Both are ultimately harmless activities. Neither does a lick of damage. They should be ultimately seen as such (though if you're the type who sees bat flipping as the highest form of art, knock yourself out).


   43. . Posted: June 10, 2019 at 12:02 PM (#5850030)
Let the kids preen. Let the cranks #####.


Madison Bumgarner isn't even 30 years old yet. He's younger than many avid bat flippers.

Honestly, if people need bat flipping this much to enjoy baseball, the sport is in even more serious trouble than advertised. The intelligent and educated observer can't help notice that as actual action has receded, bat flipping and other trivialities have arisen to "replace" the lost action.
   44. jmurph Posted: June 10, 2019 at 12:03 PM (#5850032)
(though if you're the type who sees bat flipping as the highest form of art, knock yourself out)

Right.
   45. Nasty Nate Posted: June 10, 2019 at 12:07 PM (#5850040)
Both are ultimately harmless activities. Neither does a lick of damage. They should be ultimately seen as such
OK, I think we can all refute the totally real people who were in this thread and thought Bumgarner was actually hurting Muncy with his yelling....
   46. SoSH U at work Posted: June 10, 2019 at 12:08 PM (#5850041)
Right.


That wasn't really directed at you. I just find the fascination with something that everyone of us could do, while the impressive thing that prompted it seems to take a backseat to be extremely peculiar.

   47. PreservedFish Posted: June 10, 2019 at 12:09 PM (#5850045)
Many baseball players see bat flipping as problematic. They take it as an insult, that the player is "showing him up." Same is true of some pitchers' post-strikeout antics. This is well understood by the participants.

Many baseball players see an opponent player yelling, "Just ####### run," as problematic. They take it as an insult, that the player is "showing him up." This is well understood by the participants.


The former at least has some wiggle-room for interpretation and misinterpretation. Not the latter.
   48. SoSH U at work Posted: June 10, 2019 at 12:10 PM (#5850047)
OK, I think we can all refute the totally real people who were in this thread and thought Bumgarner was actually hurting Muncy with his yelling....


If I was trying to refute a specific poster with my initial comment, I would have quoted him.

But I'll absolutely stand by what I said. If Let the Kids play is valid, so is Let the Old ##### grump. They are two sides of the same coin, and there is nothing hypocritical or contradictory about the position.



   49. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: June 10, 2019 at 12:10 PM (#5850049)
Maybe it’s an age thing, but I find Mad Bum’s form expression more embarrassing for the game than Muncy’s brand of expression.
   50. SoSH U at work Posted: June 10, 2019 at 12:15 PM (#5850053)
The former at least has some wiggle-room for interpretation and misinterpretation. Not the latter.


And? It's still harmless.
   51. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: June 10, 2019 at 12:16 PM (#5850057)
Harmless in the same way me yelling at someone walking down the sidewalk. Nothing may come of it or it might be a precursor to me getting my ass kicked
   52. SoSH U at work Posted: June 10, 2019 at 12:17 PM (#5850060)
Maybe it’s an age thing, but I find Mad Bum’s form expression more embarrassing for the game than Muncy’s brand of expression.


I don't find either embarrassing for the game. I think having many types of players displaying many types of reactions and personalities is good for the game.

   53. jmurph Posted: June 10, 2019 at 12:19 PM (#5850064)
If Let the Kids play is valid, so is Let the Old ##### grump.

Yelling at someone in response to something valid is not valid! If the first thing is valid, it's ridiculous to yell about it.
   54. SoSH U at work Posted: June 10, 2019 at 12:19 PM (#5850065)

Harmless in the same way me yelling at someone walking down the sidewalk. Nothing may come of it or it might be a precursor to me getting my ass kicked


You do realize the same can be said about flipping a bat? Nothing may come out of it or it might result in a fastball to the ribs.

   55. Nasty Nate Posted: June 10, 2019 at 12:21 PM (#5850067)
But I'll absolutely stand by what I said. If Let the Kids play is valid, so is Let the Old ##### grump.
But it's "Preening is good/OK" and "Preening is bad" - it's not ridiculous for someone holding one of those opinions to think the other is wrong.

edit: or what jmurph said in #53.
   56. Brian C Posted: June 10, 2019 at 12:27 PM (#5850073)
SoSH U has really dedicated himself to arguing an extremely banal point in this thread. It's so banal, in fact, that the people arguing with him seem to be thinking he simply must be arguing something different that isn't so banal.

But yes, I agree with him - Bumgarner should not be physically assaulted or banned for life in retaliation for his crankery.
   57. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: June 10, 2019 at 12:28 PM (#5850076)
Physical retribution for a bat flip falls into that perceived “he disrespected me so I had to do something” camp.
   58. SoSH U at work Posted: June 10, 2019 at 12:31 PM (#5850083)
SoSH U has really dedicated himself to arguing an extremely banal point in this thread. It's so banal, in fact, that the people arguing with him seem to be thinking he simply must be arguing something different that isn't so banal.


Possibly.

But we hear quite a bit about Let The Kids Play (Bumgarner himself was asked about that in the postgame interview). My whole point is that the cranky old ##### should be given the same berth (provided they're not taking it a step further into physical violence), because there's no substantive difference between a bat flip and a bark.


Physical retribution for a bat flip falls into that perceived “he disrespected me so I had to do something” camp.


And physical retaliation for "just ####### run" is the same damn thing.


   59. Nasty Nate Posted: June 10, 2019 at 12:31 PM (#5850084)
You're ignoring the content of the bark!
   60. Jeremy Renner App is Dead and I killed it Posted: June 10, 2019 at 12:32 PM (#5850085)
Being a hardcore Go Go fan I give full support to player celebrations of all types. If a guy kept fireworks in his back pocket and lit and waved around sparklers as he ran out a dinger I would be thrilled
   61. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: June 10, 2019 at 12:33 PM (#5850086)
I guess I’m of the mindset that baseball is really ####### hard, so showing some celebratory emotion when you get a big strikeout or smack a baseball into the ocean, is understandable. Yelling at someone who beat you is just being a redass sore loser.
   62. jmurph Posted: June 10, 2019 at 12:35 PM (#5850089)
And physical retaliation for "just ####### run" is the same damn thing.

Where did this come from?
   63. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: June 10, 2019 at 12:35 PM (#5850091)
Maybe he meant: if you don't want to watch me watching my homerun, go get the ball. Out of the ocean.
OK, so I think I've figured it out. What Muncy must have meant was that if Bumgarner would have immediately realized how far the homer was going to travel and, as the ball was still in the air, he had taken off running toward McCovey Cove, Muncy would have watched Bumgarner instead of the flight of the ball. Which makes sense, because how often do you see a pitcher running off the field and diving into the ocean during a game? I do think that would have gotten people's attention.
   64. BrianBrianson Posted: June 10, 2019 at 12:36 PM (#5850093)
Yes. And being a sore loser is a bad idea, but you're entitled to it iffen you like.
   65. bunyon Posted: June 10, 2019 at 12:36 PM (#5850094)
I don’t really have a problem with Bumgarner yelling at Muncy. However, I do find it kind of pathetic.
   66. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: June 10, 2019 at 12:36 PM (#5850095)
Everyone is missing an underrated part of Muncy's postgame comments, in which he said he doesn't want to get started with MadBum "a Puig thing."
   67. Ithaca2323 Posted: June 10, 2019 at 12:37 PM (#5850096)
Let the kids preen. Let the cranks #####. Don't let either of them do physical harm.


But to me, that's the rub. The cranks are the ones who feel the need to throw retaliation pitches, or get in someone's face as they're rounding the bases like Brian McCann.

Cranks never stop at just being cranks
   68. Jose Goes to Absurd Lengths for 50K Posted: June 10, 2019 at 12:38 PM (#5850101)
I don’t have a strong opinion but I want to agree with SoSH. MadBum barking is a guy showing frustration in the same way Muncy preening (he wasn’t but you get my point) is a guy showing joy. If you want more emotion, enjoy the array of emotions.

And of course there are different levels of emotion. I have no problem with a bit of a bat flip, watch it for a bit whatever. But sometimes I think a guy watches it too long and I find it bothersome. Where’s the line? No idea. I think a lot of the “let the kids play” people tend to be every bit as obnoxious and sanctimonious as the pearl clutching “oh dear god he didn’t run hard immediately on contact” crowd.

Also, I liked Muncy’s retort. I thought it was funny.
   69. Ben Broussard Ramjet Posted: June 10, 2019 at 12:40 PM (#5850104)
This worked better in cricket. I forget the specifics, but the story I read was of an all-time West Indian great playing a less-than-competitive game in Wales. He swung and missed a couple of times at a bowler who was something of a local hero, who then said, "Don't you know what the ball looks like? It's small, round, and weighs five and a half ounces!"

Hitting the next ball out of the park and into an adjoining lumberyard, the West Indian strolled down towards the bowler and suggested, "Man, you know what it looks like. Go get it." (This works a lot better in cricket, where even at the highest level, you don't replace a ball unless there really isn't an alternative.) I want to say it was Viv Richards, but there were so many West Indian greats of the 1970s-80s that I easily could be misremembering. Muncy didn't get the setup he needed.
   70. Jeremy Renner App is Dead and I killed it Posted: June 10, 2019 at 12:41 PM (#5850105)
   71. SoSH U at work Posted: June 10, 2019 at 12:48 PM (#5850107)
Cranks never stop at just being cranks


That's not true. And cranks aren't the only ones who start baseball fights or otherwise engage in violence.

   72. Brian C Posted: June 10, 2019 at 12:49 PM (#5850109)
But we hear quite a bit about Let The Kids Play (Bumgarner himself was asked about that in the postgame interview). My whole point is that the cranky old ##### should be given the same berth (provided they're not taking it a step further into physical violence), because there's no substantive difference between a bat flip and a bark.

Who isn't giving it berth? You said yourself that you think Bumgarner was acting like a dick in #19, which is all anyone else is saying. The only difference between you and everyone else is that you're adding this weird performative "BUT LOOK AT ME I'M TOLERATING IT ANYWAY" schtick.
   73. PreservedFish Posted: June 10, 2019 at 12:51 PM (#5850110)
If you don't like people bothering you, competitive, directly oppositional sports probably aren't for you.


I was just reading this essay on sumo wrestling. It is deeply scandalous for a sumo wrestler to betray the slightest hint of emotion.
   74. . Posted: June 10, 2019 at 12:59 PM (#5850120)
So then back in law school, I was doing it wrong? When the prof handed back the graded tests and posted the grades and I got the A+, I should have danced and flipped my blue book and spiked it to the ground and proclaimed the A+ loudly to the others looking at their grade and if they thought it was unseemly, I could have just said, "Well, if you don't want me to dance and taunt you, spot the issues better"??

Good to know. Guess I missed out. Lesson learned.

The interesting thing is that I think we have some professor types around here, or at least we did, and while all the while going on about letting the kids play as they're typically wont to do, not a one of them would counsel their students to act this way on grade day. Funny that.
   75. SoSH U at work Posted: June 10, 2019 at 01:00 PM (#5850121)
Who isn't giving it berth? You said yourself that you think Bumgarner was acting like a dick in #19, which is all anyone else is saying. The only difference between you and everyone else is that you're adding this weird performative "BUT LOOK AT ME I'M TOLERATING IT ANYWAY" schtick.


I made an observation in 6, based on a sense I'm getting here and elsewhere. I didn't quote anyone, as I wasn't taking on anyone directly. Since then, I've merely responded to others challenging what I said.

I acknowledged above that my point may very well be pretty banal. It's just a sense I get that the very significant push to "Let the Kids Play" doesn't treat the old farts the same way, and treats the harmless expressions of crankery (barking) identical to the fastball to the ribs.

My initial observation may very well be mistaken.

Also, feel free to have sexual congress with yourself.

   76. jmurph Posted: June 10, 2019 at 01:02 PM (#5850122)
So then back in law school, I was doing it wrong? When the prof handed back the graded tests and posted the grades and I got the A+, I should have danced and flipped my blue book and spiked it to the ground and proclaimed the A+ loudly to the others looking at their grade and if they thought it was unseemly, I could have just said, "Well, if you don't want me to dance and taunt you, spot the issues better"??

Good to know. Guess I missed out.

The interesting thing is that I think we have some professor types around here, or at least we did, and while all the while going on about letting the kids play, not a one of them would counsel their students to act this way on grade day. Hmmm.

Did this seem pretty clever and useful when you started typing it?
   77. Hysterical & Useless Posted: June 10, 2019 at 01:02 PM (#5850123)
When I get beaten at a competitive activity, I bark at myself rather than my opponent. After all, if I'd done what I'm supposed to they wouldn't have beaten me, right? Of course, not being a major league level player at anything, I have a lot more experience of getting beaten than MadBum.
   78. Jose Goes to Absurd Lengths for 50K Posted: June 10, 2019 at 01:06 PM (#5850127)
When I get beaten at a competitive activity, I bark at myself rather than my opponent. After all, if I'd done what I'm supposed to they wouldn't have beaten me, right? Of course, not being a major league level player at anything, I have a lot more experience of getting beaten than MadBum


I think there is something to this. MadBum, like most pro athletes has pretty limited experience with failure. These guys have generally been the best every step of the way and they are very competitive. So when they fail they are immediately pissed off and if the guy that beat them then celebrates, or seems too, they get further pissed off and lash out.
   79. . Posted: June 10, 2019 at 01:08 PM (#5850130)
When I get beaten at a competitive activity, I bark at myself rather than my opponent.


Sure, but that's in a vacuum. Things change when the opponent starts acting like an #######.
   80. Jeremy Renner App is Dead and I killed it Posted: June 10, 2019 at 01:10 PM (#5850133)
78--Just checked and MB was 34-7(!!!) in the minors. HFS I had no idea the dude crushed it to that degree

update: I get that won-lost is pretty lame as a metric but using it as shorthand. Sorry
   81. PreservedFish Posted: June 10, 2019 at 01:12 PM (#5850135)
Holy ####, once a small kid that wanted to become a sumo wrestling apprentice had inches of silicon surgically added beneath his scalp so that he would reach the minimum height requirements.
   82. Lassus Posted: June 10, 2019 at 01:19 PM (#5850140)
Cranks never stop at just being cranks
That's not true.
74. . Posted: June 10, 2019 at 12:59 PM (#5850120)
So then back in law school, I was doing it wrong? When the prof handed back the graded tests and posted the grades and I got the A+, I should have danced and flipped my blue book and spiked it to the ground and proclaimed the A+ loudly to the others looking at their grade and if they thought it was unseemly, I could have just said, "Well, if you don't want me to dance and taunt you, spot the issues better"??

Good to know. Guess I missed out. Lesson learned.

The interesting thing is that I think we have some professor types around here, or at least we did, and while all the while going on about letting the kids play as they're typically wont to do, not a one of them would counsel their students to act this way on grade day. Funny that.

Checkmate.
   83. . Posted: June 10, 2019 at 01:19 PM (#5850141)
Did this seem pretty clever and useful when you started typing it?


Uh-oh, I sense the term "troll" about to be whipped out. Maybe that stalker guy can barge in soon and scream-demand that people not respond to my clips. That's always fun.

Of course, as is typical, the substantive comparison is spot-on, as are the principles involved -- and can't really be refuted in any substantive way. It's typically considered bad form to taunt fellow competitors and still is in wide swaths of competitive activity and that is barely even a controversial observation. But MLB has decided that it wants to sell taunting and all the rest and so here we are. If Rob Manfred has kids still in school who are still decent students, he almost assuredly wouldn't approve of them blue book flipping and taunting fellow students, but again here we are.
   84. PreservedFish Posted: June 10, 2019 at 01:21 PM (#5850143)
You guys can chuckle, but I'm convinced. I'm now anti-batflip. Because of comment #74.
   85. bunyon Posted: June 10, 2019 at 02:03 PM (#5850168)
I absolutely hope my students who do well celebrate. Someone who has worked hard and succeeded deserves to enjoy it.

But the taunt in this story* is from Bumgarner who is the kid who failed yelling at the kid who did well. #### that kid.

* and any story involving a bat flip, which is not taunting. If a batter who homers starts yelling st the pitcher, we can talk.
   86. Jeremy Renner App is Dead and I killed it Posted: June 10, 2019 at 02:08 PM (#5850173)
85--I remember Seager screaming when he homered off Verlander in the World Series. But yeah that was just a scream of accomplishment not screaming 'at' Verlander.
   87. bfan Posted: June 10, 2019 at 02:12 PM (#5850176)
So then back in law school, I was doing it wrong? When the prof handed back the graded tests and posted the grades and I got the A+, I should have danced and flipped my blue book and spiked it to the ground and proclaimed the A+ loudly to the others looking at their grade and if they thought it was unseemly, I could have just said, "Well, if you don't want me to dance and taunt you, spot the issues better"??

Good to know. Guess I missed out. Lesson learned.

The interesting thing is that I think we have some professor types around here, or at least we did, and while all the while going on about letting the kids play as they're typically wont to do, not a one of them would counsel their students to act this way on grade day. Funny that.


Yes, all true, but the notion to succeed with dignity is an anachronism now, at least in modern American culture. Win with grace; thank those who deserve it because they were essential to your success, if you have a podium; never misunderstand that the margin of victory or success is remarkably small, and be humble in your wins. All forgotten lessons in a world ruled by page-views.
   88. Fernigal McGunnigle Posted: June 10, 2019 at 02:17 PM (#5850177)
nevermind
   89. Brian C Posted: June 10, 2019 at 02:18 PM (#5850178)
Sounds weird to say, but baseball players and law students could learn a lot from pro golfers. No one ever got mad at Tiger Woods when he did his fist pumps, even when they got pretty intense. Guys hit a big putt to win a tournament and throw their putter in the air. Players hit a hole-in-one and jump around like they won The Price Is Right. As stodgy as golf's reputation can be, everyone seems to understand that you can celebrate in a demonstrative fashion while still not showing up your opponents.
   90. Tom Nawrocki Posted: June 10, 2019 at 02:19 PM (#5850179)
It's just a sense I get that the very significant push to "Let the Kids Play" doesn't treat the old farts the same way, and treats the harmless expressions of crankery (barking) identical to the fastball to the ribs.


The other night, a Mets reliever threw at Ian Desmond (!) after giving up two homers in an inning. It's interesting to me that that act didn't result in half the opprobrium that Bumgarner has gotten here, although maybe that's because no one cares about anonymous Mets relievers.

Anyway, I'm with SoSH here. Bark all you want. Flip your bat all you want. Watch your homer all you want. Don't throw balls at people.
   91. bfan Posted: June 10, 2019 at 02:22 PM (#5850180)
Sounds weird to say, but baseball players and law students could learn a lot from pro golfers. No one ever got mad at Tiger Woods when he did his fist pumps, even when they got pretty intense. Guys hit a big putt to win a tournament and throw their putter in the air. Players hit a hole-in-one and jump around like they won The Price Is Right. As stodgy as golf's reputation can be, everyone seems to understand that you can celebrate in a demonstrative fashion while still not showing up your opponents.


That is an interesting point. The one big difference is that for other sports, your success comes at the expense of someone else. Your HR is a pitcher's fail; your touchdown is a tackler's miss; your basket is a defender's fail. In golf (except in match play), it isn't personal, because (a) your success does not mean someone else failed at their job, and (b) your primary opponent could be out of site, 3 holes back. Intended or not, these other celebrations might very well be "I am excited about my success", but to the other party, it could very well come off as "I just beat you."
   92. . Posted: June 10, 2019 at 02:22 PM (#5850181)
I absolutely hope my students who do well celebrate.


Not directly in the faces of the students they did better than. Obviously doing well is cause for celebration.

* and any story involving a bat flip, which is not taunting.


Not sure you have more standing here than the flippees, many of whom think it's very much taunting. Notwithstanding all the mental contortions people are going through to sanctify that which titillates and entertains them, it really isn't all that hard to see why the flippees think that. It really isn't.
   93. . Posted: June 10, 2019 at 02:26 PM (#5850182)
The one big difference is that for other sports, your success comes at the expense of someone else.


That's the definitive difference from Tiger Woods's fist pumps.
   94. Nasty Nate Posted: June 10, 2019 at 02:27 PM (#5850183)
Bark all you want. Flip your bat all you want. Watch your homer all you want. Don't throw balls at people.
If Bumgarner had that same outlook we'd be deprived of this salty thread!
   95. Zach Posted: June 10, 2019 at 02:27 PM (#5850184)
If you throw your club in the air and start dancing around when your partner shanks one, I think you will soon discover exactly how tolerant golfers are of taunting. My guess is not very.
   96. Tom Nawrocki Posted: June 10, 2019 at 02:28 PM (#5850187)
So then back in law school, I was doing it wrong? When the prof handed back the graded tests and posted the grades and I got the A+, I should have danced and flipped my blue book and spiked it to the ground and proclaimed the A+ loudly to the others looking at their grade and if they thought it was unseemly, I could have just said, "Well, if you don't want me to dance and taunt you, spot the issues better"??


No, what you should have done is waited until you were a regular participant on a message board where most people consider you an obnoxious troll, then dance and taunt and flip your A+ in everyone's face at that point.
   97. bfan Posted: June 10, 2019 at 02:29 PM (#5850188)
If you throw your club in the air and start dancing around when your partner shanks one, I think you will soon discover exactly how tolerant golfers are of taunting


By the way things are slipping, this is coming to a golf tournament near you by 2022 (except at Augusta National).
   98. . Posted: June 10, 2019 at 02:31 PM (#5850189)
No, what you should have done is waited until you were a regular participant on a message board where most people consider you an obnoxious troll, then dance and taunt and flip your A+ in everyone's face at that point.


And now it's easy to see why Bumgarner reacted the way he did. The bat flip and elongated self-admiration of the ball-in-flight is the quintessential obnoxious troll.(*) And that's its only intent. There isn't an iota of spontaneity.

(*) Which is precisely why MLB has decided to create and market it.
   99. Jeremy Renner App is Dead and I killed it Posted: June 10, 2019 at 02:50 PM (#5850200)
So if all the players in the old days were all reserved and respectful and courteous why are all the pitcher leaders in HBP career dominated by guys from way back? And if you toss the knuckleball guys and the guys know to be really wild for some or all of their careers the list is totally dominated by people who should not have had any reason to get upset. Jim Bunning clearly had great control. Why did he hit so many guys leading the league 4 years in a row? What was Don Drysdales' excuse?? I know nothing about Dave Stieb but in a short career guy led the league 5 times in HBP and googling he comes across as kind of an ass.
   100. Itchy Row Posted: June 10, 2019 at 02:55 PM (#5850203)
You guys can chuckle, but I'm convinced. I'm now anti-batflip. Because of comment #74.
It's made me pro-lawyer, though.
Page 1 of 2 pages  1 2 > 

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

News

All News | Prime News

Old-School Newsstand


BBTF Partner

Dynasty League Baseball

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
1k5v3L
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogRyan Thibs’ Hall of Fame Tracker
(429 - 1:05am, Dec 13)
Last: Howie Menckel

NewsblogThe Hall of Fame may have a Harold Baines problem
(141 - 1:04am, Dec 13)
Last: SoSH U at work

NewsblogOT - NBA Thread, Start of the 2019-2020 Season
(1457 - 12:58am, Dec 13)
Last: Tin Angel

NewsblogAngels agree to 7-year deal with Rendon
(74 - 12:57am, Dec 13)
Last: Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim

NewsblogMets to sign Rick Porcello
(37 - 12:46am, Dec 13)
Last: Howie Menckel

NewsblogOT- Soccer Thread- October 2019
(941 - 10:53pm, Dec 12)
Last: Jose Goes to Absurd Lengths for 50K

Hall of MeritMock Hall of Fame Ballot 2020 Results
(4 - 10:44pm, Dec 12)
Last: John DiFool2

NewsblogPrimer Dugout (and link of the day) 12-12-2019
(16 - 10:39pm, Dec 12)
Last: Der-K: at 10% emotional investment

NewsblogPrimer Dugout (and link of the day) 12-10-2019
(29 - 9:48pm, Dec 12)
Last: Sunday silence

Sox Therapy2020 Vision
(34 - 9:43pm, Dec 12)
Last: villageidiom

NewsblogMLB Rumors: Angels Pursuing 'Significant' Starting Pitcher
(38 - 8:28pm, Dec 12)
Last: the Hugh Jorgan returns

NewsblogKEN HARRELSON NAMED 2020 FORD C. FRICK AWARD WINNER
(67 - 7:03pm, Dec 12)
Last: Omineca Greg

Newsblog2019 MLB Rule 5 Draft | MLB.com
(29 - 6:11pm, Dec 12)
Last: Der-K: at 10% emotional investment

NewsblogBaseball’s Most Handsome Managers
(26 - 5:58pm, Dec 12)
Last: Der-K: at 10% emotional investment

NewsblogReport: Investigation into Astros' alleged cheating likely not completed until 2020
(3 - 4:00pm, Dec 12)
Last: The Duke

Page rendered in 0.6200 seconds
46 querie(s) executed