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Sunday, November 28, 2021

McCaffery: Jimmy Rollins, Ryan Howard passed Hall of Fame eye test

It’s why the Hall of Fame has entrusted qualified baseball writers to do the voting: Their opinions will reflect what they’ve seen, what they’ve heard in and around clubhouses, what they know from at least a decade of dedicated reporting.

If given to the fans, that responsibility would turn into organized trolling.

If trusted to some cockeyed panel of super-genius former players, that responsibility would yield Harold Baines as a Hall of Famer.

If turned over to former Hall of Famers, the elections would deteriorate into something of a fraternity rush.

Managers? Seriously? When is the last time one of them uttered one syllable not meant to advance an agenda?

So writers it must be, for they are relied upon for their eyes, their guts, their contacts, their experiences, their objectivity. And ultimately, they get it right, even if it sometimes takes a while. Even the system itself has enough firewalls to ensure Derek Jeter makes it to Cooperstown, even if some rogue voter chooses not to include him on a ballot.

It is under that system, then, that Jimmy Rollins and Ryan Howard are each one checked-ballot closer to Cooperstown than they were on Thanksgiving Eve.

RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: November 28, 2021 at 02:17 PM | 109 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: hall of fame

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   101. John Northey Posted: December 06, 2021 at 05:15 PM (#6056425)
LargeBill - you forget his managing career - Hodges is a HOVG player and a HOVG manager who died before he could build up a strong manger record. Often an early death gets bonus points from voters. Also of note: by WAR Hodges had 3 season better than anything Baines ever did. A 6.2 in 1954 (141 OPS+ that year). Baines had 2 years of 3+ WAR, Hodges 9 years of that (6 of 4+ vs Baines 1). Baines got MVP votes only 4 times (peak of 9th). Hodges 9 times with a peak of #7 (also an 8th). Baines was a career DH pretty much, Hodges won 3 Gold Gloves. IMO there is no comparison. Baines was a far inferior player to Hodges. WAR sees it as Hodges 43.9 to Baines 38.7 and that is before factoring in the managing and early death for Hodges.
   102. LargeBill Posted: December 06, 2021 at 06:43 PM (#6056434)
101. John Northey Posted: December 06, 2021 at 05:15 PM (#6056425)
LargeBill - you forget his managing career - Hodges is a HOVG player and a HOVG manager who died before he could build up a strong manger record. Often an early death gets bonus points from voters. Also of note: by WAR Hodges had 3 season better than anything Baines ever did. A 6.2 in 1954 (141 OPS+ that year). Baines had 2 years of 3+ WAR, Hodges 9 years of that (6 of 4+ vs Baines 1). Baines got MVP votes only 4 times (peak of 9th). Hodges 9 times with a peak of #7 (also an 8th). Baines was a career DH pretty much, Hodges won 3 Gold Gloves. IMO there is no comparison. Baines was a far inferior player to Hodges. WAR sees it as Hodges 43.9 to Baines 38.7 and that is before factoring in the managing and early death for Hodges.


I didn't forget his managerial record, just didn't think much of it. Nine seasons, three with a winning record, one very successful trip to post season. Career managerial record of almost a hundred games below .500% (660-753 .467%). The only Hall of Famer, based primarily on his managing with a losing record, is Connie Mack at .486 and he won nine pennants and five WS. Hodges was on the ballot 15 years, four while living and 11 after his early death. He got a 17% jump the year after his passing, but slipped back the next year as some guy named Mantle hit an already fairly crowded ballot. The sympathy vote wasn't enough to take him from HOVG to 75%. Baines benefited from friends being on the committee which must be better mojo than being well-liked and dying young. Regardless, congrats to Hodges.
   103. The Yankee Clapper Posted: December 06, 2021 at 07:14 PM (#6056436)
The majority of Hodges’ managerial career was with the expansion Washington Senators, one of the few franchises worse than the original Washington Senators, and they did win more games every year of his managerial tenure. Don’t think you can really fault Hodges for not doing better given the hand he had to play.
   104. LargeBill Posted: December 06, 2021 at 09:26 PM (#6056454)
103. The Yankee Clapper Posted: December 06, 2021 at 07:14 PM (#6056436)
The majority of Hodges’ managerial career was with the expansion Washington Senators, one of the few franchises worse than the original Washington Senators, and they did win more games every year of his managerial tenure. Don’t think you can really fault Hodges for not doing better given the hand he had to play.


Agree that the Senators were not a top team. Most first time managers back then didn't get their choice of plum assignment and seemed to take their lumps initially with cellar dwellers. He did well enough to earn a second chance where he did better with more talented players. Thing is, I wasn't docking him for his managerial career, merely stating it wasn't positive enough to be a significant factor in his Hall of Fame consideration. The BBWAA voters clearly focused primarily on his playing career. This vet committee vote probably added all factors together and gave credit for WWII military service and decided it cleared whatever bar they are using. In a similar way, Kaat while somewhat borderline based purely on his playing career, probably got credit for decades as an announcer and being a well-liked guy who stayed involved in the game since retiring. Right or wrong, guys who don't stay involved in the game tend to get forgotten.
   105. The Yankee Clapper Posted: December 07, 2021 at 11:35 PM (#6056588)
10th ballot reported by The Tracker, which still has not been pinned to the top of this page, from Paul White who finds Helton, Ortiz, Sheffield & Wagner worthy, while dropping Schilling. Quirky, or less charitably, inconsistent.
   106. DL from MN Posted: December 08, 2021 at 10:47 AM (#6056623)
Is there a thread already created for the tracker?
   107. Howie Menckel Posted: December 08, 2021 at 11:00 AM (#6056624)
I didn't forget his managerial record, just didn't think much of it. Nine seasons, three with a winning record, one very successful trip to post season.


if by "very successful" you mean the most stunning World Series title in the past 100 years, then yes, there's that.

:)
   108. SoSH U at work Posted: December 08, 2021 at 11:07 AM (#6056627)
Is there a thread already created for the tracker?


No. it's one of the downsides of a website that has no one in charge.
   109. dark Posted: December 08, 2021 at 11:35 AM (#6056637)
There’s a thread talking about the release of the ballot, though, which at least is a more intuitive place to discuss the individually tracked ballots than an article about McCaffery’s ballot.
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