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Wednesday, November 23, 2011

Megdal: (Mets Need) Gold, Jerry, Gold!

Megdal has the “The Seinfeld-Reyes Solution”.

I am a longtime, unabashed fan of Jerry Seinfeld. And not only am I a fan of his work, I’m a fan of how he’s lived his post-Seinfeld life- doing what he wants, calling Steve Somers and talking Mets for 45 minutes, etc. It’s pretty much exactly what I will do once I have a hit TV show that pays me a ludicrous amount of money in perpetuity.
Lately, I found another similarity: like me, Jose Reyes is Jerry Seinfeld’s favorite player. And he’s taken the action of naming his new puppy Jose, in the hope that this will inspire the Mets to make a deal.

But it probably won’t.

The Mets aren’t cutting Jose Reyes loose because he isn’t exciting enough, or because not enough dogs are named Jose. There are two reasons: the financial problems of ownership, and possibly (but clearly, secondarily), Sandy Alderson’s desire to avoid a contract that hampers his financial flexibility going forward.

But the obvious answer for the Mets is no different than one utilized by universities when they need a new gym or library: the Mets need an extremely rich benefactor to donate Jose’s potential salary. Those donors specify where their money should go- Wilpon Field at University of Michigan, for example. It is usually a cause near and dear to a donor’s heart.

Hello, Jerry.

New man…in front office?

Repoz Posted: November 23, 2011 at 06:53 PM | 144 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: business, media, mets, television

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   1. Walt Davis Posted: November 23, 2011 at 08:16 PM (#4000348)
So you're saying Seinfeld should be one of the Mets' mysterious "minor investors" at $20 M? Or he should pony up $100 M?

EDIT: Although I do find the endowed Seinfeld Chair in Shortstop Studies an entertaining notion.
   2. Sam M. Posted: November 23, 2011 at 08:32 PM (#4000359)
I'm sure this will earn me nothing but disdain (and perhaps cause more than a few of you to put me on "ignore"), but I have to just say this: I never once found a single thing funny about Seinfeld. I tried, came back around again a few times, but just never, ever laughed.

Those of you who got it, bless your hearts. In my eyes, you border on a cult, because your ways and beliefs are completely mysterious, you share a bizarre system of beliefs and a language all your own, and I can't help but just kind of back away when you start talking about the various shared references that only you all understand.

Since Jerry Seinfeld became such a big star, I've always kind of wished the Mets' biggest celebrity fan was somebody I actually liked. But it's Seinfeld. Just my luck.
   3. Alex meets the threshold for granular review Posted: November 23, 2011 at 08:41 PM (#4000365)
Seinfeld is awesome, so you're a weirdo. But, that could be a fun discussion: coolest people that root for your team. The first three celeb Cardinal fans that come to mind are John Goodman, Billy Bob Thornton and John Hamm, who are all pretty much awesome, so that's a good start.
   4. bunyon Posted: November 23, 2011 at 08:49 PM (#4000367)
Geez, Alex, you don't even average awesome.
   5. Alex meets the threshold for granular review Posted: November 23, 2011 at 08:51 PM (#4000369)
Gah, I hate when I realize (or have pointed out to me) that I've been abusing an adjective or adverb. Shame!
   6. Foghorn Leghorn Posted: November 23, 2011 at 09:19 PM (#4000381)
I'm sure this will earn me nothing but disdain (and perhaps cause more than a few of you to put me on "ignore"), but I have to just say this: I never once found a single thing funny about Seinfeld. I tried, came back around again a few times, but just never, ever laughed.
Not that there's anything wrong with that - if that's who you are.
   7. Kurt Posted: November 23, 2011 at 09:45 PM (#4000398)
Gah, I hate when I realize (or have pointed out to me) that I've been abusing an adjective or adverb. Shame!

I'm pretty sure he was commenting on the lack of awesomeness of John Goodman, Billy Bob Thornton and John Hamm. Personally, I think 2 of the three are just fine.
   8. cHiEf iMpaCt oFfiCEr JE Posted: November 23, 2011 at 09:52 PM (#4000401)
Everyone knows that Jerry Stiller is the King of Queens Mets fans.
   9. Alex meets the threshold for granular review Posted: November 23, 2011 at 09:58 PM (#4000405)
I'm pretty sure he was commenting on the lack of awesomeness of John Goodman, Billy Bob Thornton and John Hamm. Personally, I think 2 of the three are just fine.

I considered that, but it simply makes no sense, as all of those guys are, in fact, awesome. Well, maybe "awesome" should be reserved for only the stratospherically great, in which case I'll amend that to say that all three are pretty great.
   10. Krusty Posted: November 23, 2011 at 10:10 PM (#4000408)
Seinfeld is awesome, so you're a weirdo. But, that could be a fun discussion: coolest people that root for your team. The first three celeb Cardinal fans that come to mind are John Goodman, Billy Bob Thornton and John Hamm, who are all pretty much awesome, so that's a good start.


Somehow, I read "Bob Newhart" from that.

I don't think I can name a celebrity Mets fan beyond Seinfeld.
   11. Juilin Sandar to Conkling Speedwell (Arjun) Posted: November 23, 2011 at 10:13 PM (#4000410)
I'm sure this will earn me nothing but disdain (and perhaps cause more than a few of you to put me on "ignore"), but I have to just say this: I never once found a single thing funny about Seinfeld. I tried, came back around again a few times, but just never, ever laughed.

Those of you who got it, bless your hearts. In my eyes, you border on a cult, because your ways and beliefs are completely mysterious, you share a bizarre system of beliefs and a language all your own, and I can't help but just kind of back away when you start talking about the various shared references that only you all understand.

You're not alone. That makes two of us.
   12. Fred Lynn Nolan Ryan Sweeney Agonistes Posted: November 23, 2011 at 10:16 PM (#4000411)
I can't come up with a single celebrity A's fan. I guess I don't know enough about celebrities, or other A's fans, or both.
Brad Pitt?

Maybe the guys in Metallica. They once showed up at a Raiders playoff game and put on a pregame show in the parking lot for the assembled fans (which is, in fact, awesome).
They might like the A's, too, for all I know.
   13. 1k5v3L Posted: November 23, 2011 at 10:20 PM (#4000414)
When I lived on the West coast in the 90s (during the "Seinfeld" run was on TV), I didn't think the show was funny. Then I moved to New York City in '99, and started watching reruns and now, 12 years later, I think "Seinfeld" is still one of the best shows on television. It just takes certain Newyorkcitification to truly appreciate that show...
   14. The Long Arm of Rudy Law Posted: November 23, 2011 at 10:21 PM (#4000415)
I don't think I can name a celebrity Mets fan beyond Seinfeld.


Jon Stewart. Billy Joel seems like he'd be a Mets fan too, but I don't know if he's a baseball fan.
   15. Foghorn Leghorn Posted: November 23, 2011 at 10:22 PM (#4000417)
I don't think I can name a celebrity Mets fan beyond Seinfeld.
Chris Dial
   16. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: November 23, 2011 at 10:27 PM (#4000419)
Michael Keaton is a Pirates fan.
   17. The Long Arm of Rudy Law Posted: November 23, 2011 at 10:29 PM (#4000420)
For the White Sox, Barack Obama, Al Capone, uh, Bernie Mac, and uhhhhhhhh Styx. The Daleys too, I guess.
   18. Starring RMc as Bradley Scotchman Posted: November 23, 2011 at 10:29 PM (#4000421)
The most awesome Tigers fan is me. Or Tom Selleck.
   19. Vance W Posted: November 23, 2011 at 10:52 PM (#4000430)
So far as I know the only celebrity fans of the Rangers are NBA legend Dirk Notwitzki, country music star Charlie Pride, and war criminal, George W. Bush.
   20. Dock Ellis Posted: November 23, 2011 at 11:09 PM (#4000435)
Nolan Ryan is a celebrity and he's a Rangers fan, too.
   21. bobm Posted: November 23, 2011 at 11:15 PM (#4000440)
Forget the money. The Wilpons just need to learn from George Costanza and do the complete opposite of whatever they would normally do.
   22. Something Other Posted: November 23, 2011 at 11:18 PM (#4000441)
This sentence from the TFE is puzzling:

Sandy Alderson’s desire to avoid a contract that hampers his financial flexibility going forward.
Maintaining financial flexibility is a reason not to sign anyone, I suppose, but hardly a good reason not to sign a fine player to a solid deal. I wouldn't sign Reyes for what he's likely to get for baseball reasons, but for reasons of "financial flexibility"?

I'm sure this will earn me nothing but disdain (and perhaps cause more than a few of you to put me on "ignore"), but I have to just say this: I never once found a single thing funny about Seinfeld. I tried, came back around again a few times, but just never, ever laughed.
I cringe at the later years of the show, which seem for whatever reason to want to roll around in how horrifying people--and its main characters--can be, but the first couple of seasons are good. Solid, ensemble, sitcom good, but nothing transcendent, and I lived in NYC for a decade so that part of the show isn't lost on me. I get liking it, and not liking it. I don't get thinking it's the finest show human beings have ever put together.
   23. Robert in Manhattan Beach Posted: November 23, 2011 at 11:37 PM (#4000447)
I never once found a single thing funny about Seinfeld. I tried, came back around again a few times, but just never, ever laughed.

Hard to comprehend. What do you find funny? I mean my wife doesn't laugh at Seinfeld but that's because 90% of it goes straight over her head. But to get it, shrug, and move on...I don't get that.
   24. Darren Posted: November 23, 2011 at 11:47 PM (#4000451)
Sam, that's kooky talk. It's like your from Bizarro world or something.
   25. Darren Posted: November 23, 2011 at 11:53 PM (#4000454)
Ben Affleck and Mike Barnacle are fans of my team, so take that! Heck, according to Ken Burns, some combination of Mike Barnacle and Doris Kearns Goodwin (but mainly Barnacle!) epitomizes Sox Fanhood! So, ya know, puke.
   26. Ebessan Posted: November 24, 2011 at 12:01 AM (#4000456)
The Phillies have Rob McElhenney. That's all we need.
   27. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: November 24, 2011 at 12:34 AM (#4000462)
The Yankees have Jay-Z, Alec Baldwin and Paul McCartney, among others. Pretty good list.

I happen to love Seinfeld, but I'm from NYC. I will freely admit that if you're from outside of the NY area, it might wholly baffling.
   28. Booey Posted: November 24, 2011 at 12:46 AM (#4000467)
I'm sure this will earn me nothing but disdain (and perhaps cause more than a few of you to put me on "ignore"), but I have to just say this: I never once found a single thing funny about Seinfeld. I tried, came back around again a few times, but just never, ever laughed.

Those of you who got it, bless your hearts. In my eyes, you border on a cult, because your ways and beliefs are completely mysterious, you share a bizarre system of beliefs and a language all your own, and I can't help but just kind of back away when you start talking about the various shared references that only you all understand.


It's one of those shows that you either loved or hated. No one seems to think it was "okay." I actually didn't pay much attention to it during it's initial run, but I've seen every episode a dozen times now via reruns and have developed quite an appreciation for it now. But I have met several people who hated it too, so you're not alone, Sam. I think it's right up there with the Simpsons as being one of the most quotable shows of all time and having the biggest influence on modern pop culture.

Arrested Development was the show for me that everyone who watched it said was so awesome and I never understood the appeal. I got it, it just wasn't funny (even though Jason Bateman and Michael Cera have gone on to have funny careers since).
   29. Swedish Chef Posted: November 24, 2011 at 01:05 AM (#4000472)
The Yankees have Jay-Z, Alec Baldwin and Paul McCartney, among others. Pretty good list.

Salman Rushdie came out as a Yankees fan on Twitter during the playoffs.
   30. Gotham Dave Posted: November 24, 2011 at 01:19 AM (#4000474)
The Yankees have Jay-Z, Alec Baldwin and Paul McCartney, among others. Pretty good list.

Salman Rushdie came out as a Yankees fan on Twitter during the playoffs.
Larry David! To keep with the Seinfeld theme.

As for celebrity A's fans, I thought Steve Malkmus might be a fan, but I googled it and he likes the Dodgers.
   31. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: November 24, 2011 at 01:34 AM (#4000478)
According to Bleacher Report--and yes, I know what the entails--celebrity A's fans include MC Hammer, potentially Tom Hanks (he was an A's vendor, apparently) and maybe the Moneyball actors. So, basically no one.
   32. AJMcCringleberry Posted: November 24, 2011 at 01:50 AM (#4000482)
I don't think I can name a celebrity Mets fan beyond Seinfeld.

Chris Rock and Robert DeNiro.
   33. Benji Posted: November 24, 2011 at 01:59 AM (#4000485)
Almost every Sopranos character (except Yankee fan Vito Spadafore) were Met fans, and the great Lennie Briscoe from Law And Order too.
   34. PreservedFish Posted: November 24, 2011 at 01:59 AM (#4000486)
It's one of those shows that you either loved or hated. No one seems to think it was "okay."


I thought it was one of those shows that you either loved or thought was "okay."
   35. Walt Davis Posted: November 24, 2011 at 02:16 AM (#4000488)
Bill Murray.

We win.

Yes, despite Jim Belushi, we still win.
   36. cardsfanboy Posted: November 24, 2011 at 03:04 AM (#4000503)
I'm sure this will earn me nothing but disdain (and perhaps cause more than a few of you to put me on "ignore"), but I have to just say this: I never once found a single thing funny about Seinfeld. I tried, came back around again a few times, but just never, ever laughed.


I say the same thing about the Office. I don't think I've ever once laughed at that show(it makes andy kaufman appear to actually have said something funny once in comparison....and nobody on the planet, has ever, ever laughed at andy kaufman....carrot top gets more laughs.)

Seinfeld wasn't a bad show, but man the characters are about the worse examples of human beings on the planet, and it makes you want to retch just watching the show and for one second remotely caring about these people.
   37. cHiEf iMpaCt oFfiCEr JE Posted: November 24, 2011 at 03:08 AM (#4000506)
Salman Rushdie came out as a Yankees fan on Twitter during the playoffs.

"Jerry, are you blind?! He's a writer. He said his name was Sal Bass. Bass, Jerry! Instead of salmon he went with bass. He just substituted one fish for another!"
   38. Foghorn Leghorn Posted: November 24, 2011 at 03:36 AM (#4000522)
It's Sal-man, not salmon.
   39. vortex of dissipation Posted: November 24, 2011 at 03:46 AM (#4000528)
John Fogerty is a self-professed A's fan, and has been one since the 1970s.
   40. alkeiper Posted: November 24, 2011 at 04:03 AM (#4000533)
The Phillies have Liz Lemon from 30 Rock. I think Tina Fey herself is a Phillies fan.
   41. Matthew E Posted: November 24, 2011 at 04:30 AM (#4000547)
Geddy Lee.

And that's real.
   42. PreservedFish Posted: November 24, 2011 at 04:42 AM (#4000553)
Some or all of Yo La Tengo are Mets fans.
   43. Dock Ellis Posted: November 24, 2011 at 05:08 AM (#4000556)
I enjoyed Seinfeld.
   44. Kurt Posted: November 24, 2011 at 05:43 AM (#4000562)
Seinfeld wasn't a bad show, but man the characters are about the worse examples of human beings on the planet, and it makes you want to retch just watching the show and for one second remotely caring about these people.

Sure, but unlike, say, Friends, the show knows and acknoweldges that its characters are pretty crappy people.
   45. Drexl Spivey Posted: November 24, 2011 at 05:56 AM (#4000565)
Bill Murray.

We win.

Yes, despite Jim Belushi, we still win.


No. The Brewers win.

Bob Uecker > Bill Murray

Any other living person > Jim Belushi
   46. Avoid Running At All Times- S. Paige Posted: November 24, 2011 at 06:06 AM (#4000567)
Jimmy Pardo is a White Sox fan.
   47. Avoid Running At All Times- S. Paige Posted: November 24, 2011 at 06:07 AM (#4000569)
Any other living person > Jim Belushi


This
   48. cardsfanboy Posted: November 24, 2011 at 07:37 AM (#4000584)
Sure, but unlike, say, Friends, the show knows and acknoweldges that its characters are pretty crappy people.

I was always under the impression that new yorkers thought that the seinfeld characters were actually pretty good examples of the typical new yorker(which is why I have always thought of new york as a step below a cesspool...I mean if a narcisstic ugly moron like George and a narcisstic anal attentive ditz like Jerry represented new york, I would be the first person to push the button to nuke that place off the face of the world.... I mean seriously we can't let those type of people breed.(at least the friends characters---except Joey and Rachel---pretended to be somewhat human)
   49. Avoid Running At All Times- S. Paige Posted: November 24, 2011 at 07:52 AM (#4000585)
As a native New Yorker born and raised, I can say that all of us are godless, awful people who happen to live in a city a lot of people from other, better parts of America, move to for some reason.
   50. Harold can be a fun sponge Posted: November 24, 2011 at 08:22 AM (#4000590)
Eddie Vedder is a Cubs fan.

I absolutely love Seinfeld. My group in high school quoted it regularly (these were the first few seasons), and it was the only appointment TV when I was in college. I watched the reruns for years, and reached the point where I knew every episode; when I'd start to play one, I'd quickly run through all the jokes in my head, laugh at them once, then watch the episode and laugh at them a second time.

I felt a bit saturated a few years ago, so I stopped recording the reruns on my DVR. I now have the itch to watch an episode or two.
   51. Something Other Posted: November 24, 2011 at 09:37 AM (#4000592)
Chris Rock and Robert DeNiro.
What's up with Chris Rock--is his audience developmentally disabled or hard of hearing? Why repeat every line? It grates pretty quickly.
   52. Avoid Running At All Times- S. Paige Posted: November 24, 2011 at 09:59 AM (#4000593)
As George Carlin once said, comedy is mainly rhetorical in nature. You know a joke is being told even if you can't make out the words. Things like cadence, inflection, volume matter on stage. Rock's delivery reminds me somewhat of Kinnison's, and he was a former preacher. They both seem to be operating within that rhetorical framework. Maybe you don't like the feeling of being preached at.
   53. Robert in Manhattan Beach Posted: November 24, 2011 at 11:10 AM (#4000598)
As a native New Yorker born and raised, I can say that all of us are godless, awful people who happen to live in a city a lot of people from other, better parts of America, move to for some reason.

Pretty much. Same goes for LA of course. Everybody hates LA, but of course nobody in LA is actually from LA, it just the two or three best, most attractive people from every town in flyover country.

Anyway, I watched the Jon Lovitz cancer/George's poker face episode tonight, seriously if you can't find a laugh in there that's a you problem.
   54. Lassus Posted: November 24, 2011 at 02:18 PM (#4000620)
I found Newsradio laugh-out-loud funny, but I found Seinfeld only amusing.

BTW, I only just now, while making my xmas list, found out that WKRP's dvd set has been utterly mutilated by music rights issues. So sad.
   55. cHiEf iMpaCt oFfiCEr JE Posted: November 24, 2011 at 02:47 PM (#4000623)
BTW, I only just now, while making my xmas list, found out that WKRP's dvd set has been utterly mutilated by music rights issues. So sad.

Billy Beane never should have changed the station's music format.
   56. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: November 24, 2011 at 03:49 PM (#4000633)
Newsradio was a classic ensemble comedy that I didn't get around to for no known reason until a couple years ago. Seinfeld is the undefeated king of all Sitcoms, by a nose over Cheers. It made the correct decision to end after 7 seasons, unlike, say, the Simpsons, which would have had a chance at the title if it had ended in the 1990s.

Julia Stiles is a Mets fan.

edit: Oh ####, Wodehouse was a Mets fan late in life?
   57. Matthew E Posted: November 24, 2011 at 04:02 PM (#4000639)
Oh ####, Wodehouse was a Mets fan late in life?


Really? That is troubling. I think the Mets could also claim Rex Stout, too. Hmm.
   58. just plain joe Posted: November 24, 2011 at 04:28 PM (#4000643)
BTW, I only just now, while making my xmas list, found out that WKRP's dvd set has been utterly mutilated by music rights issues. So sad.


"As God is my witness I thought turkeys could fly"; I thought WKRP was a great show in its heyday, that's too bad about the dvd set issue. The Seinfeld show always appealed to me because the characters seemed so real, self-centered and without a shred of humanity, if that doesn't basically sum up the vast majority of the people in the world (not just New Yorkers), then I don't know what would. Happy Thanksgiving everyone, only three months until pitchers and catchers report.
   59. Darren Posted: November 24, 2011 at 04:55 PM (#4000648)
That can't completely ruin WKRP, can it? I can imagine a few key moments, like the "boooooooogggeeerrrrr" moment getting ruined by some crappy generic song, but I'd think about 95 percent of the show would still be fine. Right?

I was always under the impression that new yorkers thought that the seinfeld characters were actually pretty good examples of the typical new yorker


They're pretty good examples of typical people: a lot of good stuff but also insecure, petty, and selfish at times. In the later years, they just dropped all the good stuff out. I thought the final show was a pretty brilliant concept--a final condemnation of these awful people and by association, the viewers had come to know and love them.
   60. Lassus Posted: November 24, 2011 at 05:04 PM (#4000650)
That can't completely ruin WKRP, can it? I can imagine a few key moments, like the "boooooooogggeeerrrrr" moment getting ruined by some crappy generic song, but I'd think about 95 percent of the show would still be fine. Right?

I haven't seen them, so I don't know. I usually feel online commenters from a massive group are not really generally to be trusted, but the Amazon reviewers really lay into how badly it harms the show, sometimes in great detail.
   61. Darren Posted: November 24, 2011 at 05:08 PM (#4000653)
And people have laughed at Andy Kauffman--I've seen video.
   62. PreservedFish Posted: November 24, 2011 at 05:13 PM (#4000655)
Oh ####, Wodehouse was a Mets fan late in life?


That's super-awesome.
   63. CrosbyBird Posted: November 24, 2011 at 05:51 PM (#4000670)
Newsradio was a classic ensemble comedy that I didn't get around to for no known reason until a couple years ago. Seinfeld is the undefeated king of all Sitcoms, by a nose over Cheers. It made the correct decision to end after 7 seasons, unlike, say, the Simpsons, which would have had a chance at the title if it had ended in the 1990s.

I suppose all of us have a few shows that have tremendous popular appeal that for some season we just don't get. Cheers is pretty high on the list for me. I've watched a bunch of episodes and I've never found it to be funny. I was a big fan of Taxi, though, so it's not "new television snobbery" (although I would say that television is pretty much on a different plane today, especially if you consider cable shows). I also don't see the appeal of the Cosby Show.
   64. Walt Davis Posted: November 24, 2011 at 05:51 PM (#4000671)
for one second remotely caring about these people.

If you cared about the characters in Seinfeld no wonder you didn't find it that funny.* Seinfeld is essentially a black (as in dark humor not African-American) comedy in which our foibles are taken to their extreme. If you wanted a precedent, the closest that springs to mind is Blackadder.**

It's a bit like the difference between the British and American versions of The Office. The British version has no sympathy at all for the Ricky Gervais character -- he is irredeemably smarmy, petty, unconfident, incompetent and borderline delusional.

One thing that amazes me about Seinfeld (and the Larry David thing whose title escapes my mind at the moment) is how well they work despite the fact that the actors aren't particularly good.

* Like many great things, it was great early and only rare moments of greatness as it aged.

** as opposed to, say, Buffalo Bill (I was probably its only fan) where only the main character is despicable. And quite different from All in the Family where Archie was despicable but chastened in every episode.
   65. CrosbyBird Posted: November 24, 2011 at 06:03 PM (#4000672)
One thing that amazes me about Seinfeld (and the Larry David thing whose title escapes my mind at the moment) is how well they work despite the fact that the actors aren't particularly good.

Curb Your Enthusiasm killed Seinfeld for me. I thought Seinfeld was a very good show but sometimes a bit too campy. Curb is like all of the best parts of Seinfeld, plus not having to worry about getting things past the network.

Do you know that Curb is pretty much unscripted? That might make you appreciate the actors a bit more.
   66. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: November 24, 2011 at 06:18 PM (#4000675)
Bailey Quarters is still awesome, music rights issues or not.
   67. cardsfanboy Posted: November 24, 2011 at 06:27 PM (#4000677)
f you cared about the characters in Seinfeld no wonder you didn't find it that funny.* Seinfeld is essentially a black (as in dark humor not African-American) comedy in which our foibles are taken to their extreme. If you wanted a precedent, the closest that springs to mind is Blackadder.**


I actually liked Seinfeld, just don't love the show(I can think of easily a dozen sitcoms that I were greater--of course that includes a non-sitcom like M*A*S*H*, so I should probably call them scripted comedy shows--actually after trying to make a list, I'm not sure I could come up with 10 that meet the requirements of something I really liked and something that was very good for a sustained time, I could make a list of easily a dozen shows I preferred but which are by no means great shows see Psych, or a list of a dozen shows that are arguably better, but that I never really got into--see All In the Family)

I don't think I could ever like the Office, I've tried multiple times to try and get into that show and it just does nothing for me. The Steve Carrell character completely ruins it for me. I'm used to a Kramer type of caricature being a supporting character--and even there Kramer had more depth-- but as the primary character it just doesn't work for me.
   68. ...and Toronto selects: Troy Tulowitzki Posted: November 24, 2011 at 06:31 PM (#4000678)
Maybe the guys in Metallica. They once showed up at a Raiders playoff game and put on a pregame show in the parking lot for the assembled fans (which is, in fact, awesome).

Just one guy. James Hetfield is.

It just takes certain Newyorkcitification to truly appreciate that show...

Haha, hardly.

Curb Your Enthusiasm killed Seinfeld for me. I thought Seinfeld was a very good show but sometimes a bit too campy. Curb is like all of the best parts of Seinfeld, plus not having to worry about getting things past the network.


Watching 'Curb Your Enthusiasm' you really see looking back, what a huge amount of that show was Larry David driven & created, incredible. Watching Seinfeld now is sorta like watching a childs program by comparison.
   69. Dock Ellis Posted: November 24, 2011 at 07:06 PM (#4000682)
I'm trying to think of a New York specific joke from Seinfeld and I can only think of Kramer's bit where he finds himself at 1st Street and 1st Avenue and calls it "the nexus of the universe."

30 Rock is full of New York specific jokes. I find myself explaining some bits to people who do not live in NYC.
   70. bobm Posted: November 24, 2011 at 07:24 PM (#4000685)
[69] I found the whole episode about the doorman to be NY-specific. (Yes, I am aware other places have doormen.)
   71. PreservedFish Posted: November 24, 2011 at 07:35 PM (#4000688)
I'm trying to think of a New York specific joke from Seinfeld and I can only think of Kramer's bit where he finds himself at 1st Street and 1st Avenue and calls it "the nexus of the universe."


I thought it was very New Yorky. The Puerto Rican day parade, Kramer rents a horse and buggy, traffic on the Van Wyck. And a ton of the jokes were based on real NYC locations. The Soup Nazi, La Caridad, H&H Bagels.

I guess it's not as New Yorky as 30 Rock (or Sex and the City). But I remember contrasting it with Friends, which had virtually no New York color.
   72. Lassus Posted: November 24, 2011 at 07:38 PM (#4000689)
69 - "...if you don't want to be a proper member of society, you can go on over to the East side!" (Or some such, can't remember the exact quote.)

Also, Walt, I'm not sure how one could call Jason Alexander not that good of an actor.
   73. Matthew E Posted: November 24, 2011 at 07:47 PM (#4000693)
I'm not sure how one could call Jason Alexander not that good of an actor.


Thing about Jason Alexander is that when you see him as himself, like on talk shows or whatever, he has this aura of dignity about him that's completely absent when he's being George Costanza. I don't know how he does that. He's like the opposite of David Ogden Stiers, who put on that kind of aura when he was playing Winchester on M*A*S*H*.
   74. vortex of dissipation Posted: November 24, 2011 at 07:53 PM (#4000694)
More than music or drama, comedy takes context to appreciate. I don't get Seinfeld. I don't get The Simpsons. But, then, I'm virtually clueless about most American culture, despite having lived here for most of my life. (That's my fault, not the fault of American culture. There's just a bridge there I can't cross.) I find this to be extremely funny. But if you don't know the original movie, and the entire milieu the sketch is parodying, it probably wouldn't be that funny to you...
   75. Something Other Posted: November 24, 2011 at 09:39 PM (#4000714)
As George Carlin once said, comedy is mainly rhetorical in nature. You know a joke is being told even if you can't make out the words. Things like cadence, inflection, volume matter on stage. Rock's delivery reminds me somewhat of Kinnison's, and he was a former preacher. They both seem to be operating within that rhetorical framework. Maybe you don't like the feeling of being preached at.
Ah--that could be it, though I think Kinnison is sensational. Rock is a funny guy, though I don't get his enormous popularity; his observations usually aren't anything special or especially penetrating, which is the kind of thing that gets me rolling.
   76. Lassus Posted: November 24, 2011 at 10:14 PM (#4000718)
All subjective, I suppose, as Kinnison was about as tiresome a comic as I could imagine.
   77. bumpis hound Posted: November 24, 2011 at 11:24 PM (#4000728)
There are a lot of similarities between Jerry Seinfeld and Bertie Wooster.
   78. Fred Lynn Nolan Ryan Sweeney Agonistes Posted: November 24, 2011 at 11:50 PM (#4000731)
Bailey Quarters is still awesome, music rights issues or not.

QFT. Hot women who don't know they're hot are freakin' FLNRSA kryptonite.

He's like the opposite of David Ogden Stiers, who put on that kind of aura when he was playing Winchester on M*A*S*H*.

Roger Ebert went to school with Stiers, and wrote that he always talked like Winchester. Nobody could figure out where that came from.
   79. Greg K Posted: November 25, 2011 at 12:18 AM (#4000736)
Seinfeld wasn't a bad show, but man the characters are about the worse examples of human beings on the planet, and it makes you want to retch just watching the show and for one second remotely caring about these people.

I agree with the second part, but that's what makes it an enjoyable show! See also, It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, the Newsroom, The Thick of It...or hell, any other show or movie that I've loved in the past 15 years.

EDIT: Black Adder another good addition, thanks for the reminder.

DOUBLE EDIT: Just another data point. I love Seinfeld and have no interest in ever setting foot in New York.
   80. Greg K Posted: November 25, 2011 at 12:29 AM (#4000737)
I was just watching a Stephen Fry talk where he touched on the differences between British and American humour. Using the guitar smashing scene from Animal House he said Belushi is the quintessential American-style comedian, whereas a British comedian would want to play the hippie.
   81. PreservedFish Posted: November 25, 2011 at 12:34 AM (#4000739)
I... have no interest in ever setting foot in New York.


I honestly don't understand how anyone could say this. It's so absolutely foreign to my thinking. Do you have no interest in ever seeing Paris or Tokyo?
   82. Greg K Posted: November 25, 2011 at 12:44 AM (#4000741)
I honestly don't understand how anyone could say this. It's so absolutely foreign to my thinking. Do you have no interest in ever seeing Paris or Tokyo?

I've been to Paris twice!
Though both times it was just my city of departure after a trip around Europe, and I didn't get around much aside from watching In Bruges in a cinema. Generally I'm just not much of a fan of big cities, and I have irrational biases against New York (thanks a lot Yankees) and Paris that unfairly sully them in my eyes. I wouldn't be against visiting Tokyo, though I'd probably need to go with someone who knew the city fairly well to feel comfortable.
   83. PreservedFish Posted: November 25, 2011 at 12:51 AM (#4000743)
Huh. To me, big cities are endlessly fascinating, and the "uncomfortable" feeling that travel gives you is one of the most exciting sensations that life offers.
   84. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: November 25, 2011 at 01:00 AM (#4000744)
If you cared about the characters in Seinfeld no wonder you didn't find it that funny.* Seinfeld is essentially a black (as in dark humor not African-American) comedy in which our foibles are taken to their extreme.

The reason I rate Seinfeld and Curb light years above all other sitcoms (not that I've seen them all) is Larry David's explicit "no hugging, no learning" mantra, the absence of which makes shows like All In The Family and even many episodes of The Simpsons simply unbearable.** And shows like Taxi and It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia are just way too formulaic and jokey-jokey for my taste. There's no real bite to either of them.

**I can't even imagine (thank God) a book with a title like The Torah According to Jerry Seinfeld, whereas there is indeed a book with the cringeworthy name of The Gospel According to the Simpsons.

EDIT: Of course those episodes of The Simpsons that stick to the humor and forego the preaching (and the celebrity cameos) are among the greatest comic shows ever.
   85. Greg K Posted: November 25, 2011 at 01:04 AM (#4000745)
Huh. To me, big cities are endlessly fascinating, and the "uncomfortable" feeling that travel gives you is one of the most exciting sensations that life offers.

Oh don't get me wrong, I love traveling. I just enjoy smaller places I can walk and wrap my head around. My all-time favourite trips are probably driving the north coast of Wales, poking around Belgium for a couple weeks, and renting a car and driving a massive circle around France and seeing just about everything BUT Paris.
   86. Krusty Posted: November 25, 2011 at 01:33 AM (#4000748)
This thread is terrific. It also led me to googling around and finding this gem: .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)
   87. Kurt Posted: November 25, 2011 at 02:18 AM (#4000753)
I'm trying to think of a New York specific joke from Seinfeld and I can only think of Kramer's bit where he finds himself at 1st Street and 1st Avenue and calls it "the nexus of the universe."

* JERRY: Anywhere in the city?

GEORGE: Anywhere in the city - I'll tell you the best public toilet.

JERRY: Okay.. Fifty-fourth and Sixth?

GEORGE: Sperry Rand Building. 14th floor, Morgan Apparel. Mention my name - she'll give you the key.

JERRY: Alright.. Sixty-fifth and Tenth.

GEORGE: (Scoffs) Are you kidding? Lincoln Center. Alice Tully Hall, the Met. Magnificent facilities.


* I never new I could drive like that. I was going faster than I've ever gone before, and yet, it all seemed to be happening in slow motion. I was seeing three and four moves ahead, weaving in and out of lanes like an Olympic skier on a gold medal run. I knew I was challenging the very laws of physics. At Queens Boulevard, I took the shoulder. At Jewel Avenue, I used the median. I had it. I was there.. and then.. I hit the Van Wyck. They say no one's ever beaten the Van Wyck, but gentlemen, I tell you this - I came as close as anyone ever has. And if it hadn't been for that five-car-pile-up on Rockaway Boulevard, that numbskull would be on a plane for Seattle right now instead of looking for a parking space downstairs.

* What am I, a bulimic, chain-smoking stenographer from Staten Island?

* Derek Jeter: We won the World Series.
George Costanza: In six games.

* Newman: June 14, 1987.... Mets Phillies. We're enjoying a beautiful afternoon in the right field stands when a crucial Hernandez error to a five run Phillies ninth. Cost the Mets the game.
Kramer: Our day was ruined. There was a lot of people, you know, they were waiting by the player's parking lot. Now we're coming down the ramp... Newman was in front of me. Keith was coming toward us, as he passes Newman turns and says, "Nice game pretty boy." Keith continued past us up the ramp.
   88. PreservedFish Posted: November 25, 2011 at 02:29 AM (#4000755)
I just enjoy smaller places I can walk and wrap my head around.


I like those too, but being completely unable to "wrap my head around" a place is its own type of awesome. I grew up in NYC, but I can walk it up and down and still find things I had no idea about or cannot explain. (That does not happen much in my new home, the comparatively small San Francisco). The most intense and inexplicable big city I've been to is Mumbai - I imagine you'd hate it - it is so busy and rude and dense and complicated that I don't think anyone understands what the #### is going on. Not relaxing, but fascinating.
   89. toratoratora Posted: November 25, 2011 at 05:37 AM (#4000776)
Speaking of New York-centric, wasn't there an entire episode based on Elaine and an area code marooning her?

Never mind. Wiki is my friend:
The episode also featured the New York area code 646. When the 212 area code ran out of numbers, 646 was created. Elaine repeatedly gets a piercing high beep in her phone after Kramer signs up to receive restaurant menus by fax with a service called "Now We're Cookin'". Elaine then gets a new number with the 646 area code. She is not happy with the new number because she believes the area code makes it too long to dial. She is proved correct when attempting to give her number to a man in the park. Initially eager, he reads the number, asks if it is in New Jersey. Her response is, "No, it's just like 212 except they multiplied every number by 3… and added 1 to the middle number." He makes an excuse and walks off.
   90. cardsfanboy Posted: November 25, 2011 at 05:45 AM (#4000777)
Speaking of New York-centric, wasn't there an entire episode based on Elaine and an area code marooning her?


Not sure that is a New York centric conceit though, roughly around that time even in St Louis, we were transitioning from just a 314 area code to a larger influx of 573 area codes(573 means you are a hoosier/redneck/white trash---type of thing)
   91. Something Other Posted: November 25, 2011 at 06:19 AM (#4000785)
All subjective, I suppose, as Kinnison was about as tiresome a comic as I could imagine.
I'm sympathetic. Like w Chris Rock, if the delivery doesn't work for you Kinison must be unbearable, or close to it.

The reason I rate Seinfeld and Curb light years above all other sitcoms (not that I've seen them all) is Larry David's explicit "no hugging, no learning" mantra, the absence of which makes shows like All In The Family and even many episodes of The Simpsons simply unbearable.** And shows like Taxi and It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia are just way too formulaic and jokey-jokey for my taste. There's no real bite to either of them.
That's the mantra that makes Seinfeld after season three unpleasant--for me--though. It's as unrealistic a formula as mandatory hugs and positive life lessons. I find a lot of late MASH unwatchable for just that reason.
   92. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: November 25, 2011 at 06:23 AM (#4000787)
Arrested Development was the show for me that everyone who watched it said was so awesome and I never understood the appeal. I got it, it just wasn't funny (even though Jason Bateman and Michael Cera have gone on to have funny careers since).

I can understand not liking Arrested Development, but I can't really understand saying that Bateman and Cera have had funny careers since then.

And shows like Taxi and It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia are just way too formulaic and jokey-jokey for my taste. There's no real bite to either of them.

No bite to It's Always Sunny? Buh?
   93. Dock Ellis Posted: November 25, 2011 at 06:43 AM (#4000789)
There is probably more NYC-centric bits than I remember. I remember the public bathroom bit. I remember the Van Wyck expressway bit but I always thought that traffic jokes could apply anywhere else. I don't recall the area code episode, though that would definitely be NYC-centric, and in fact, a friend of mine just moved to NYC and I told him how lucky he was to get a 212 area code when he got a new phone service.

It's Always Sunny has a lot of bite. I always say that show is a lot like Seinfeld, only every character is George Costanza.
   94. Greg K Posted: November 25, 2011 at 09:11 AM (#4000795)
It's Always Sunny has a lot of bite. I always say that show is a lot like Seinfeld, only every character is George Costanza.

In an interview I saw with Glenn Howerton (Dennis) where he's listing their influences he gets to Seinfeld, stops, and sheepishly admits that they're pretty much just ripping him off.
   95. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: November 25, 2011 at 12:34 PM (#4000802)
It's Always Sunny has a lot of bite. I always say that show is a lot like Seinfeld, only every character is George Costanza.


Which is part of the problem. Too much of one particular type and the bite's effect is diminished.

In an interview I saw with Glenn Howerton (Dennis) where he's listing their influences he gets to Seinfeld, stops, and sheepishly admits that they're pretty much just ripping him off.

The "bite" I see in Seinfeld but not in Sunny derives from the fact that the former seems to be a spot on parody of classic modern New York urban types, whereas the latter just seems like an endless procession of adorable goofiness, a few "edgy" comments that really aren't that edgy at all, and a comic sensibility that doesn't seem particularly original.

And then there's this: Unless you count The Simpsons, which of course is a cartoon, the side characters in Seinfeld are in a class by themselves. We could sit here for half an hour listing all the Puddys and the Mr. Petermans and the Newmans and the Sids and the Silvios and the Soup Nazis and the Banyas and the Romanian "comedians" and the gay armoire thieves and we'd still leave someone out. It's an endless list. I've never seen any other show (again, not counting The Simpsons) which could even remotely match that, although Curb is getting there. If you leave them out, the show loses nearly everything, and I think that people who don't "get" it, don't "get" it in great part because it takes awhile for these classic side characters to get absorbed in your consciousness. In that sense, Seinfeld is a lot like baseball.
   96. Fancy Pants Handle struck out swinging Posted: November 25, 2011 at 01:33 PM (#4000805)
Good news, everyone! So far everybody has whiffed on the greatest comedy show of all time!
   97. Rants Mulliniks Posted: November 25, 2011 at 01:36 PM (#4000807)
I'd like to see NYC someday, and Paris too for that matter, although I can only handle a couple of days at a time in any large city. The restrictions to movement (traffic when you're driving, endless stops and transfers of public transit when you're not) literally drive me insane. I just want to swear at the top of my lungs in those situations.

If I go to Paris though, it won't be in the summer. Anyone I know that has been there has complained about the overwhelming stench of dog #### and human piss.

The only remotely large cities I've been in are Denver, LA, Vegas, Montreal, Ottawa, Boston and Toronto. Denver was pretty cool, but I could care less if I ever set foot in LA or Vegas again.
   98. Lassus Posted: November 25, 2011 at 01:48 PM (#4000810)
No bite to It's Always Sunny? Buh?

I actually agree with this. "Ha ha look how awful" all the time just isn't that funny to me either.
   99. tfbg9 Posted: November 25, 2011 at 01:54 PM (#4000814)
I guess I lived at "the nexus of the Universe" for 10 years.
   100. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: November 25, 2011 at 02:09 PM (#4000817)
Good news, everyone! So far everybody has whiffed on the greatest comedy show of all time!

You mean India, at the Oval? Great show, but 12 episodes is too small a sample size.
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