User Comments, Suggestions, or Complaints | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertising
Page rendered in 0.5176 seconds
48 querie(s) executed
| ||||||||
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Discussion
| ||||||||
Baseball Primer Newsblog — The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand Friday, February 24, 2012Milwaukee Brewers’ Ryan Braun ‘dodged a bullet’: Dick PoundPound-for-pound the greatest Dick of all time!
Repoz
Posted: February 24, 2012 at 03:39 PM | 58 comment(s)
Login to Bookmark
Tags: brewers, steroids |
Login to submit news.
You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks. Hot TopicsNewsblog: Forbes: For MLB, Las Vegas, And Oakland, The A’s Name And Brand Should Stay Put
(41 - 6:04am, Dec 04) Last: Jose Canusee Newsblog: Leyland, postseason manager extraordinaire, elected to Hall (11 - 5:54am, Dec 04) Last: MuttsIdolCochrane Newsblog: Hot Stove Omnichatter (64 - 1:27am, Dec 04) Last: NaOH Newsblog: Who is on the 2024 Baseball Hall of Fame ballot and what’s the induction process? (344 - 12:28am, Dec 04) Last: The Yankee Clapper Newsblog: OT - November* 2023 College Football thread (298 - 11:57pm, Dec 03) Last: Mayor Blomberg Newsblog: OT - 2023 NFL thread (73 - 11:43pm, Dec 03) Last: Howie Menckel Newsblog: OT - NBA Redux Thread for the End of 2023 (126 - 11:31pm, Dec 03) Last: Eric J can SABER all he wants to Hall of Merit: Mock Hall of Fame 2024 Contemporary Baseball Ballot - Managers, Executives and Umpires (28 - 10:54pm, Dec 03) Last: cardsfanboy Hall of Merit: 2024 Hall of Merit Ballot Discussion (170 - 7:45pm, Dec 03) Last: Chris Cobb Newsblog: OT - College Football Bowl Spectacular (December 2023 - January 2024) (2 - 7:18pm, Dec 03) Last: Lance Reddick! Lance him! Newsblog: OT Soccer - World Cup Final/European Leagues Start (301 - 6:22pm, Dec 03) Last: Infinite Yost (Voxter) Newsblog: Zack Britton details analytics ‘rift’ that’s plaguing Yankees (9 - 8:43am, Dec 03) Last: villageidiom Newsblog: Update on Yankees’ Juan Soto trade talks: Teams talking players, but not close on agreement (30 - 8:20pm, Dec 02) Last: The Yankee Clapper Hall of Merit: Hall of Merit Book Club (16 - 6:06pm, Dec 01) Last: ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Newsblog: Jackson Chourio extension: Brewers closing in on historic deal with MLB's No. 7 prospect, per report (19 - 4:54pm, Dec 01) Last: Rally |
|||||||
About Baseball Think Factory | Write for Us | Copyright © 1996-2021 Baseball Think Factory
User Comments, Suggestions, or Complaints | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertising
|
| Page rendered in 0.5176 seconds |
Reader Comments and Retorts
Go to end of page
Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.
1. Flynn Posted: February 24, 2012 at 03:45 PM (#4068053)In this case Ryan Braun, who tested positive for synthetic testosterone in a valid test (*), only to have the test overturned on the most technical of technicalities.
(*) Barring new information coming to light.
Chicks dig the big balls. And if that's a crime, I don't wanna be innocent.
No new information will come to light to convince the unconvince-able.
Because you willfully ignore the collector who drove past 20+ open fed ex locations, who claimed he stored the sample on his home desk (no fridge, sorry Dick), for two days, and didn't deliver it to Fed-Ex until 6 hours after it opened when he finally did bring it in. And who never even documented what happened, almost as if he was trying to cover it up.
You also ignore that the samples aren't tamper proof in that scenario, and that there are hugely important reasons to get the samples out of the collectors hands because they aren't confidential until you do.
Finally, you ignore that fact that the test broker records for testosterone levels, from a guy who can show he has virtually no muscle mass gains or changes over 6 years, and who has passed over 25 tests during that period.
So if this is a "valid test", I shudder to think what it would take to convince you a test isn't valid.
But Lupica said it was triple sealed. TRIPLE!
Tom Cruise: "Doctor, was there any sign of foul play?"
Kevin Pollack: "You mean, other than the dead body?"
Tom Cruise: "Damnit, I walk into that one every time!"
----
There may not have in fact been any tampering involved. But if the agreed-upon procedures weren't followed, it's kind of silly to complain that there was "no sign of tampering." One loses the grounds to make that argument, in my view.
Now that we're done with beauty contest portion of the program can we move on to an investigation of the only crime committed: the leak of this information?
http://ryanvenables.ca/tag/dick-pound/
I beat a (hashish) possession charge on a technicality.
(checks wiki) His full name is Richard William Duncan Pound. He could've been William Pound, or Bill Pound. Or Duncan Pound, which is actually kinda awesome. Or even R.W.D. Pound. But no. Dick. Pound. What a maroon.
Not to speak for VA, but I think it's worthwhile, just to show how little effort Braun's detractors have given towards getting their facts straight.
I suppose we should be grateful he doesn't go by Dick Will Pound.
Not just a technicality but a legal technicality. Not just a legal technicality but a thin legal technicality. Not just a thin legal technicality but a very thin legal technicality.
Why stop there? It's not just a very thin legal technicality, but a very thin legal technicality that has no value. And not just a very thin legal technicality that has no value, but a very thin legal technicality that has no substantive value. And not just a very thin legal technicality that has no substantive value, but a very thin legal technicality that has no substantive value at all.
NewtSpeak, ftw.
I think it's more an issue of competence of the testing process. The procedures exist for a reason (presumably). That they were not adhered to makes me question the validity of the procedure.
It's like 5th grade math class. You don't just get to get the right answer, you have to show your work. If you don't put a little "1" above the top number showing that you carried it we have no way of knowing if you are really learning the process or simply got lucky.
Braun may well be juiced up with more stuff than...well whatever comp you want. To suspend him for this would have been wrong because the process that all parties have agreed to was not followed.
Actually this makes me like him a lot more. He refused to take the path of least resistance.
Ryan Braun, who shares a last name with Hitler's mistress...
Heh. Yes, if Hitler were around today and a baseball fan, his favorite player would surely be none other than the Hebrew Hammer himself. :-)
Great thread URL ending on this one.
I can only imagine what a bullet dick pound would look like.
Then maybe you shouldn't opine on situations you don't understand.
And his unwillingness to take the path of least resistance probably cost him the IOC presidency (assigned the job of investigating corruption in the IOC in the wake of the process that awarded Salt Lake City the games, he actually did investigate, and was quite outspoken on the matter. Not what people had in mind.)
Testing negative a bunch before testing positive you say? Maybe he was tipped off all the other times? Check out marijuana testing in college athletes. They get a call and make sure they are careful. Ever notice how we don't hear about many college athletes getting busted for pit? Why do you think that is? The ones I knew said they got tipped off that they were on thelist and would dodge the test through one manner or another.
You think MLB athletes don't have better systems? This isn't about a conspiracy, but people that just want to "help" Ryan Braun. It doesn't matter if he is clean or not - knowing the test is coming is nice.
Not leaking premature results would be nice too, but there's too much money/sanctimony around to hope for that, I suppose.
At my high school, the Head Janitor's (yes, Head)last name was Holder. His first name was Richard, but he went by Dick. Dick Holder, Head Janitor. Yep, talk about a KICK ME sign!
I wonder if Dick Pound hired Hugh Jass as an attorney during the SLOC investigations?
I guess George Wilbur used a a dual-column gas chromatograph, Hewlett-Packard model 5710a with flame analyzing detectors on the first sample.
Exactly. You have people complaining that this was won only a technicality, then they spout off something that is factually wrong. How can that persons opinion have any validity, when it's VERY clear, they haven't researched even the most basic components of the case.
Only on the floor model.
You are a bad man, Larry Mahnken. A bad, bad man.
When I grow up, I gonna change my name to Kick Ass.
It may not mean that Braun did nothing wrong, but I just think it's a basic fairness issue. If the stakes are so high (suspension, millions of dollars, reputation, Hall of Fame chances), and the agreement has to be abided to by the players (particularly strict liability), then the agreement should be abided to by MLB. And so if they don't follow protocol, the test should be thrown out. Is it too much to ask that they follow protocol when so much is at stake for the player? Why bother having the collection rules if they can just be ignored while some guy whose job it is to follow the rules takes the sample home with him instead of driving to FedEx? Why should a player have to show that the sample was actually tampered with in that case? Again, what's the point of having the rules, then?
Of course, he also shares the Braun name with one of baseball's great pitchers
But you are missing the point of the alarmist. They don't care if the test was thrown out by an arbitrator. Remember these are the same people that backne is good enough for them, that are willing to crucify Sosa because his name was leaked one time in a report that has been refused to be repeated again by the paper that originally carried it. Heck Bagwell used because when he was in double A he didn't have much power and Caminiti was his teamate. The test is positive, therefore all evidence points to the fact that he is guilty. Mind you all the other rumors that happened aren't credible, the rumor about the test being so high, that no test on record has ever seen a test that high...that rumor should be ignored because it is just heresay etc. But this test that was tainted by chain of custody, was still a good test. There is no winning ever with these guys. They get to pick and choose which innuendo works for their witch hunting ways.
Incidentally it seems likely to me that the whole issue of what to do if there's a violation of chain of custody was never addressed. This for instance is all that's in the NCAA's section on Chain of Custody.
7.0. Chain of Custody.
7.1. The collector will deliver the shipping case(s) to the carrier.
7.2. A laboratory employee will record that the shipping case(s) has been received from the carrier.
7.3. The laboratory will record whether the numbered bar-code seal on each vial arrived intact.
7.3.1. If a specimen arrives at the laboratory with security seals not intact, the NCAA may collect another specimen.
Chris is arguing that the sample doesn't require special storage (and as I say, he has specific knowledge here, though I'd ask him to think about the possible consequences of improper storage. I'd think the risks would be all about possible false negatives, but that's strictly a WAG) so that as long as the seals are still intact it's still good for testing.
Personally I'd think the right way to proceed is to go to step 7.3.1 as soon as there's a violation of the chain of custody. Re-test ASAP, don't even bother with the initial sample.
The 5710 was a much better GC than all the other HP GCs that came after. Sure, it didn't have a PC running it and you had to record on that heat-sensitive strip paper but, damn, you could kick the machine down a flight of stairs into a swamp and have it up and running within 10 minutes of retrieving it. I love that ####### machine.
On the issue, now that we have hundreds of articles and dozens of threads, I'm totally lost as to what happened:
a) was the sample refrigerated at the courier's house or not?
b) was the B sample negative for synthetic T?
If that answer to B is no, then that should do it. An unrepeatable test, for whatever reason, is not one on which to hang your hat. It would also show that the mishandling did affect the samples in some way. If the sample isn't handled properly, it shouldn't be on the accused to show that the mishandling caused a weird result, it should be on the accuser.
I think another question in all the hubbub is what do those who say Braun is guilty think should have happened? If you say, "I think Braun used but he shouldn't be punished because the testing rules were violated," I think you're being reasonable. If you simply think Braun should be punished regardless of any violation by MLB or the testers then, without respect, #### you.
According to an article in today's Times, the excuse for the delay in dropoff was precedent, and the fact that the dropoff deadline for overnight FedEx shipments had already passed by the time the sample left the ballpark. I mention this only as a point of reference, and not to dispute any of the issues you raise above.
The piss's seal was unbroken and both A and B samples independently tested positive for artificial testerone, causing Braun to be SUSPECTED of injecing, ingesting the stuff, seeing's how that's appears to be the only way something artificial can get into one's body.. a CLEAR case of suspicion.
SUSPECTED PRIOR TO CONVICTION.
That is, if Braun HAD been convicted, he'd had been suspected prior.
a rush to judgement.
therefore, innocent.
The legal reality is that none of this ever happened.
Braun doesn't exist.
The piss's seal was unbroken and both A and B samples independently tested positive for artificial testerone, causing Braun to be SUSPECTED of injecting, ingesting the stuff, seeing's how that's appears to be the only way something artificial can get into one's body.. a CLEAR case of suspicion.
SUSPECTED PRIOR TO CONVICTION.
That is, if Braun HAD been convicted, he'd had been suspected prior.
a rush to judgement.
therefore, innocent.
The legal reality is that none of this ever happened.
Braun doesn't exist.
Is 5x the normal limit of testosterone a good thing? Is it even a healthy thing? It seems to me that 5x the normal amount of most things in your body will make you sick if not kill you.
Medical types - what's the deal?
You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.
<< Back to main