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Thursday, October 13, 2011
The Rangers, after another heart-stopping game, are one win away from returning to the World Series for the second time in as many years.
Texas put itself in that position with four runs in the top of the 11th inning off All-Star closer Jose Valverde on Wednesday, setting up a 7-3 victory over the Tigers in Game 4 of the American League Championship Series at Comerica Park. Mike Napoli put the Rangers ahead with an RBI single, and Nelson Cruz, who also made the defensive play of the night, delivered the crushing blow with a three-run home run one pitch after Napoli’s go-ahead hit.
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1. Dag Nabbit: Sockless Psychopath Posted: October 13, 2011 at 03:22 AM (#3961698)But all that matters is who gets the W and who gets the L.
I still say the Tigers send this back to Texas with Verlander taking the mound for Game 5.
I sure hope so. But Verlander hasn't exactly been untouchable in the postseason.
The good news is that the Tigers will send out a stronger starting pitcher than the Rangers in each of the 1, 2 or 3 games they have left.
Have fun parsing that sentence.
All three losses were winnable games for the Tigers. But, no. Always something.
Guess what, guys? If you're not going to f@cking TRY, I'm not gonna watch. Got better things to do.
And now the nation will see (ignore, actually) a Texas-St. Louis World Series, an event even more soul-crushing than the usual Yankees-Phillies matchup. At least the Yankees and Phillies have some good players...Rangers-Cardinals? You might as well watch a Faces of Death video.
Thanks to your inept offense and clueless button-pushing, Leyland, I'm all done with baseball this year. Time for you to head out to pasture.
Go Lions! Go Wings! GO BLUE!
The Tigers are in the ALCS! They just lost two games in extra innings and they're not even worth your time to watch one more game? It's not like Texas isn't a good team either despite the odd claim that they have no good players. Seems like a ridiculously high standard to hold a team to.
As I say, I haven't experienced sports related heartbreak in many a year so maybe I'm being too harsh on immediate reactions.
Don't conflate the two. The Red Sox are Evil Empire II -- they make the playoffs almost every year, and have two WS titles in the last seven years. For Tigers fans, a World Series is a once-in-a-generation event.
I haven't experienced sports related heartbreak in many a year so maybe I'm being too harsh on immediate reactions.
That's it. I know I'm being a sore-loser jerk, but I can't help it. This is probably the Tigers' last shot at glory for a decade or more, and to lose by such a tiny margin, to a team whose fan base consists entirely of people p!ssed off that they couldn't get Cowboys tickets...man, it hurts.
This is a bizarre sentiment to me. They're certainly the closest thing to a Goliath in their division unless Joe Mauer turns out to actually be alive after all, and the playoffs are a crapshoot. I would be surprised if the Tigers didn't make another LCS within 5 years. Cabrera is signed through 2015, Verlander through 2014. Yes, there were some fluke years scattered around and some regression is to be expected, but by the same token Scherzer and Porcello both rate to be better going forward than they were in 2011. The corpse of Ordonez is the only relevant thing leaving this offseason.
They seem like clear favorites in the division going into 2012, at the very least.
This is pretty much what everyone said in the wake of 2006. "The Tigers are for real! They have tons of young pitching! They'll dominate for years to come!"
Well, all the young pitching turned out to be a mirage, their offense was mediocre, they punted away 2007 and 2009...and here we are, five years later. This is their last shot for awhile, and they've made of hash of it.
Dammit.
In late May the Tigers were seven games out, playing .500 baseball. On 2 July, they gave up +10 runs for third time in five games. At that point I more or less thought they would fall short yet again, and that Leyland would be asked to leave after this season. (He's been in Detroit five years, and doesn't have a lot to show for a lot of money being spent.)
And now they are in the ALCS. What looked to be a lost season in early July has turned into something to be celebrated. It's not exactly a triumph against the odds, but more of a surprising turn of events. And credit goes to Dombrowski, reworking the roster enough to carry the Tigers into the playoffs.
I'm afraid if there is a pattern in the Tigers' 2006, 2009 and so far in 2011, it's the bullpen failures. If the Tigers don't hit, the bullpen can't save these games. And that's something that someone needs to fix. Why is it, with a game on the line, the Tigers' key relievers always seem to blow it?
Going back to #13, Dombrowski's biggest failure is the lack of a bullpen. The only two useful relievers in the bullpen, unless you count Phil Coke, are Valverde and Benoit and they are being paid an arm and a leg to be in Detroit. He's also spent a good number of high draft picks on relievers with nothing to show for it.
I do think there is legitimate reasons to be optimistic going forward for the next few years. Cabrera, Verlander, Fister, Scherzer and Porcello should be enough to at least sniff the playoffs in the AL Central. Ownership will pony up for another free agent or two. We'll see.
The Tigers' bullpen looks pretty solid to me now. I'd say the starting pitching not named Verlander has been a bigger problem for them this year.
RMc is being way too pessimistic, and Vaux is being Vaux.
I'm not fond of Texas and I hate St. Louis, but NO GOOD PLAYERS? No Fan Base? No Offense RMC, but you sound like a U of M fan!
I think you got it in the last sentence. As a Sox fan I've been through surprisingly good seasons (1999), dream seasons (2007) lousy seasons (1992) and years where it just didn't happen (2010). At least in '92 by May you just shrugged your shoulders and said "yup, this team isn't doing it this year." The frustration of seeing a talented team blow what should be an insurmountable lead is a killer. It's incredibly frustrating to see a team get so close then have Lucy pull the ball away at the end because you are so emotionally involved. It's easy to be detached emotionally when you are 10 games out by Memorial day.
You're a Jays fan right? I've got to think that a year like '87 or '90 is much worse than say 1980 even though the won-loss record was appreciably better.
I can only speak for myself though I think most Sox fans feel the same way. I'd rather go through seasons like the last two where "disappointment" means 90 wins but at the same time when you are watching the team you support #### up a good thing at the very end it is incredibly frustrating.
To put it another way, as bad as it is to lose 10-0 you probably feel worse when your team loses 5-4 because you give up a walk off two run homer with two outs. In the 10-0 game by the fifth inning you know it's over and can just watch in relative peace. In the 5-4 game you are screaming at your TV and pacing (at least I am).
Oh, please. Texas finished an unexciting tenth in MLB attendance (shouldn't a defending pennant winner draw better than that?) in their little joke of a bandbox. The Tigers have a century of tradition; nobody even noticed there was a ballclub in DFW until 2005 or so.
Can't blame 'em, really: the Rangers are as dull as dishwater. The Josh Hamilton story has been beaten into the ground, and Michael Young has been an embarrassment in these playoffs. The pitching's good, yes, but they all seem interchangeable...is that Colby Harrison on the mound? Or maybe Derek Lewis? When Mike Napoli -- whose throw-out of Jackson last night may be the first time he's ever successfully thrown the ball to second base -- is the face of your franchise...well, that's just ugly.
And, so, the stage has been set for yet another Death March of a World Series, featuring two snore-inducing, unworthy teams playing the rain until well past midnight, with the occasional shot of David Boreanaz in the stands.
No, thanks. I'm outta here.
Hamilton, Young and Kinsler are pretty clearly the "faces" of the franchise. Maybe Beltre too. MIKE Napoli is just a player who had an excellent season.
See what I mean about the Rangers being interchangeable? ;)
When David Young is one of the faces of your franchise, well, that's just ugly.
I've followed a number of different baseball teams as I've moved around the country, the 1969 Cubs and the 1977 Phillies (Davalillo, Mota) being the ones that let me know pretty young that you should never hope for anything.
After that, though, heartbreak has eluded me. The Phillies won in 1980 (and 1983 was if anything even more satisfying, given the way the regular season went). I moved to Texas and the Rangers were never competitive enough to break my heart. 2010 was clearly satisfying – first pennant, beating the Yankees. And even now, I'll echo franoscar in #20 from the other side of the field: if the Tigers come back to win the ALCS, 2011 will still have been terrific. A franchise record for victories, solidly excellent play all season long; a last-minute loss will not wipe that out.
Of course if the Rangers go on to just barely miss for the next 3 or 4 years, bitterness could start to ferment :)
sneering at the rangers? really? i wouldn't go to astros games in the summer if there was no roof, no wonder the attendance isn't like it is up there whre it is colder
and no football fan gets baseball tickets because he/she can't get football tickets. cmon
and complaining that this is the last time for this team to have ANY chance? you wanna swap with the astros straight up? didn't think so
stop sulking - if dombrowski hires ed wade to find some cromulent relievers youse guys gonna WIN. and you woulda won it in 07 iffn your pitchers could do stuff like field which i know yeah in the AL pitchers aren't considered baseball players - blame that stupid DH rule
They scored exactly one run in their last eight innings, basically on a fluke. (When you're counting on Brandon Inge to be your offense, you're in trouble, kids.) And it wasn't like they were leaving multiple runners on base again, either: they weren't getting anything at all against the Rangers' Relievers-R-Us. Pathetic.
So, I'm not watching game five, or if it gets there, game six. (Busy both days, anyway.) Game seven? Not from where I'm sitting.
Mike Scioscia, is that you?
No, the bullpen chokes. It choked in 2006, it choked in Game 163 in 2009 and it's been choking this year. Valverde served up a home run last night to a guy who has an unfavourable home/road split, and he did it after he let the bases get loaded. Look at the bottom of the ninth of the ALDS on 3 Oct: Valverde walked two, and gave up a long fly ball to Russell Martin that could have been a walk-off home run. Bottom of the 11th, 10 Oct: Perry couldn't get an out. Yesterday, in the 11th, Valverde faced five batters and got one out. And let's not talk about Al Albuquerque's post-season.
The baseball gods are angry.
What the....Pujols, Carpenter, Holliday, Berkman isn't enough star power for you? Then there's Hamilton, Beltre and a bunch of guys like Wilson and Kinsler who should be better known nationally but aren't yet.
This is correct. We can certainly use the ancient "LOL, Fox is gonna hate the ratings!" cliche, but the ancient "(Generic player) vs. (Generic player)! You call that playoff excitement?" cliche doesn't apply.
I don't see any reason to be particularly distressed about the franchise's future prospects, either. I'll always be a pessimist, but honestly, are the Tigers in a worse position for the near future than any other team in their division? It hardly seems so. Everything might come together for Kansas City, I suppose. Minnesota would seem to have a long way to go, though Tiger fans have learned to never, never count them out. The White Sox aren't in as much disarray as some people seem to think, but they're certainly no juggernaut. Cleveland has some pieces, but how much better are they really going to be next year? None of those teams are in a better position for 2012 than the Tigers, and really, who knows what happens after that? It's a division without dominant payroll behemoths, in which the Tigers maintain the highest or second-highest payroll. As far as having a chance, what more could a fan ask for?
Oh I agree 100%. I'm not saying a fan shouldn't be heart-broken. I just don't get the "these guys are bums, I can't stand watching them" kind of heartbroken.
When I've had my dreams dashed by a team I usually feel a mix of frustration, sadness, and pity (both for myself and the players). Maybe it's just me but coming so close and then losing makes me feel more sympathetic to the players, not angry at them.
It's not the visceral, negative emotional reactions immediately following loses that confuse me, but the anger directed at the players and the team.
EDIT: I guess it says more about me and how much I prefer sadness to anger than anything else.
Probably been covered already, but MIKE Napoli threw out 36% of runners this season and had only one passed ball (only 500 innings caught, but still). Whatever else he has been in the past (and is likely to be in the future), it's hard to look at Napoli's 2011 season as anything other than a strong defensive one.
Your edit is my default position most of the time too. The last couple of weeks of the season were brutal though. I don't put much stock in "they aren't playing hard" type stuff because I think these guys all work hard but man the Sox looked like a team mailing it in.
I can't imagine, as RMc is suggesting, not watching or rooting though. As pissed as I was, as much as I really didn't believe in them, I was still watching and rooting desperately.
Eh, it's just sore loser talk, which makes no sense considering Detroit hasn't even lost. They've got the league's best pitcher going on full rest tonight and have been in every single game. It's not like Texas has been facerolling them or anything.
With respect to the star power point though, it's possible that this Texas team could win the World Series without a future HOFer on the roster. Beltre might have a shot at some milestone numbers if he ages really well, but is probably a borderline guy if he doesn't make them. Kinsler has an outside shot at ~60 WAR if he can stay healthy and productive into his mid-late 30s, but he's both a 2B and has an injury history despite not being 30 yet. Josh Hamilton has the talent but probably missed too many years and is too injury prone. Elvis Andrus is good and still super young, but unless he starts hitting more, he'll probably never sniff the hall. None of the pitchers look likely, although I suppose there's like a 1% chance Derek Holland turns into Tom Glavine or something.
Wait, this matchup has happened exactly as many times in my lifetime as Detroit-St. Louis has, right?
And, so, the stage has been set for yet another Death March of a World Series, featuring two snore-inducing, unworthy teams playing in the rain until well past midnight
This seems like an odd reason for the rest of us to prefer Detroit to Texas.
fascinating
Sorry, but this just isn't true. The only way anyone can seriously say this is if they're using Mariano Rivera as the standard, and that's not really fair. We may never see another Rivera again in our lifetime.
Valverde may have been somewhat shaky this year in non-save situations, but in save situations he has been freaking outstanding.
Unless you're over two but less than five, it's happened as many times in anyone's lifetime. Well, except those folks who have seen more Cards-Tigers World Series than Yanks-Phils (people between the ages of 43-61 and anyone 77 or older.
Lisa, remember when Jose Cruz Sr. was "the most underrated player in baseball" so long that actually became overrated. That pretty much explains Michael Young.
cruuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuz was there when i was a kid - he was popular but not great. STILL popular. fans had a FIT that he was removed as 1st base coach - and he really wasn't worth anything
the media really REALLY likey michael young i think because they see him as a "team first" guy - all those position changes, deferring to a-fraud, etc. although i am not real too sure why he's won a gold glove - checks it out - oh, high BA. got it. too bad mo vaughn got robbed, hunh?
Could have, but Gene Lamont picked the wrong time to get aggressive.
-- MWE
No mention of Michael Young? Don't you think a shortstop with a .304 lifetime average, decent power, a batting title, six 200 hit seasons and 7 all star appearances has at least an outside shot at making the Hall?
Very outside. His path is the Johnny Damon route, stay healthy enough to make a run at 3,000 with the odd post season heroics. Otherwise he's a guy with ~2,500 hits, a sub-.800 OPS and an OPS + of just over 100. There's a positional difference in his favor but that feels like Garrett Anderson to me.
2. 1981 Dodgers and 1984 Tigers.
edit: 1988 Dodgers get in on a technicality, as Don Sutton pitched in 16 games for them, but not in the post season.
edit edit: Till 1990, only 2 WS losers don't have a HOFer: 1944 Browns and 1945 Cubs.
Teams without slam dunks:
1990 Reds - Hopefully Larkin
1993 Phillies - Probably Schilling
1997 Marlins - Brown and Sheffield are qualified, but it may be until the vets for them.
2002 Angels - this generation's 1981 Dodgers, no one obvious nor deserving.
2005 White Sox - Get in on the Sutton technicality (Thomas)
Anything after 2006 is a lot of pure speculation (Tulowitzki? Longoria? Howard? Hamels? Lincecum?)
This is why I hate Dusty Baker so much.
Or Baker.
Trivia time: Name the 3rd LCS manager who played for the 1981 Dodgers.
Sparky Anderson and Lasorda are both in, although of course the question specified "on the roster."
Based on voting history and patterns, Larkin will almost surely make it next year or the year after.
1997 Marlins
If Sheffield doesn't make it, it will only be because of his Balco connections, in which case you could add the 2002 Giants to the list as well. Kent isn't a lock, and we have no idea how the voters are gonna react to Bonds.
The 1984 Tigers have got to have the most borderline guys without an actual HOFer than any other team ever. Trammell, Whittaker, Evans, Parrish, Morris...
prior threw the 133 pitches in sept - NOT a championship game - and actually, checking it out - he threwover 129 pitches 4 of his 6 sept starts and the other 2 were 119 and 123
For even more fun and hilarity Dusty had Prior throw 116 pitches 5 days later in a game that the Cubs won 12-3. The Cubs had an 8-0 lead after 3 innings, 11-0 lead after 5 innings, and a 12-2 lead after 6 innings. Yep, that is right Prior gave up 2 runs and threw 21 pitches in the 6th to go over 100 pitches for the game and Dusty decided, what the hell, let's send him out there again for the 7th. Dusty was the king of crossing his fingers and praying for one more inning out of his starter.
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