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Friday, March 19, 2021

MLB Authorizes Bally’s as a Sports Betting Partner

MLB has agreed to a sports betting partnership with casino and racetrack operator Bally’s Corporation, which previously struck deals with the NHL and NBA over the past two months.

The agreement grants Bally’s the title of Authorized Gaming Operator for the league, as well as use of MLB team branding and data for the creation of sports betting products. Bally’s will create and showcase MLB content during game broadcasts from 19 regional sports networks throughout the season, which begins April 1.

Additionally, MLB and Bally’s will implement procedures to ensure the integrity of league games. Gaming is an outlet for MLB to connect with a younger audience, as showcased by the league’s free-to-play Rally prediction app having a median user age of 33.

RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: March 19, 2021 at 05:02 PM | 52 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: gambling

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   1. Walt Davis Posted: March 19, 2021 at 06:07 PM (#6009266)
Gaming is an outlet for MLB to connect with a younger audience

The future's so bright I gotta wear shades

the league’s free-to-play Rally prediction app having a median user age of 33.

Oh, "younger."
   2. Ziggy: social distancing since 1980 Posted: March 19, 2021 at 06:16 PM (#6009269)
And they're going to get Eddie Cicotte and Buck Weaver to serve as their spokesmen!
   3. Bhaakon Posted: March 19, 2021 at 06:38 PM (#6009272)
If they want a younger audience, they've got to go all-in on lootbox mechanics.
   4. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: March 19, 2021 at 08:16 PM (#6009279)
This is all still state-specific, right? All the podcast ads say you can only use sports books if you love in WV, NJ, MI, and a few others. Georgia does not have legalized gambling at all (although I think there is a bill to allow it in State legislature right now).
   5. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: March 19, 2021 at 08:16 PM (#6009280)
Farewell, MLB. No, on second thought, EABOD.
   6. Howie Menckel Posted: March 19, 2021 at 08:44 PM (#6009287)
All the podcast ads say you can only use sports books if you love in WV, NJ, MI, and a few others.

more than 20 states allow sports betting now in some form, up from one at the beginning of 2018 (outside of a bizarre exception or two like Delaware and NFL parlay-only betting).

NC launched just today, with the minor caveat that it's only in-person and only at two western NC tribal casinos that are 200 to 300 miles away from where people actually live in NC. they one-upped NY, which doesn't let you make a legal bet within a mere 90 miles of NYC (although NJ, which has been stealing businesses and sports franchises from bumbling big brother NY for decades, will hook you up if you just walk or pedal halfway across the GW Bridge. literally - the geolocation these days is that good).

all sportsbook operators only can offer bets in certain states, hence the caveat in specific commercials. fwiw, it looks like CT is the next new float in the sports betting parade.

recall that Bally's is taking over this year as the name brand of more than a dozen RSNs - regional sports networks - that once had the Fox name.
   7. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: March 19, 2021 at 09:00 PM (#6009290)

recall that Bally's is taking over this year as the name brand of more than a dozen RSNs - regional sports networks - that once had the Fox name.


And they are developing an app to watch games that will incorporate many gambling elements. I would also bet you see that incorporated in telecasts as well.
   8. Mayor Blomberg Posted: March 19, 2021 at 09:06 PM (#6009292)
I think there is a bill to allow it in State legislature right now

I Think there's one pretty much everywhere this session. Shelly's heirs are spending big in TX
   9. sunday silence (again) Posted: March 19, 2021 at 09:20 PM (#6009294)
I've loved in MI and NJ but not legally in WV.
   10. Howie Menckel Posted: March 19, 2021 at 10:37 PM (#6009304)
Georgia does not have legalized gambling at all (although I think there is a bill to allow it in State legislature right now).

neither did Tennessee, until a few months ago.

they still don't have casinos, but they have mobile sports betting.

we saw all of this in the 1990s/2000s with casinos. once your neighboring state expands gambling, you either do the same, or your residents spend their discretionary income across the border.

the South and West will trail, again, for a bit. but resistance is futile.

Europeans think we are a bunch of prudes, frankly - although, in what might be encouraging news to some here, there has been a massive backlash. it's against betting companies dominating ads on uniforms, TV commercials, and just what is felt to be all-out assault of marketing something that is of no interest even to many diehard sports fans.

it's... possible that some of these same gambling companies that are now here will be a little bit afraid of your potential wrath. so I'm saying there's a chance.

I have noted before that it's clear that pretty soon, broadcasts will split in two - one will be the traditional format, perhaps even without the inevitable Brett Musburger or Mike Tirico thinly-veiled point spread comments, and one where the ever-changing point spread is very much a part of the commentary. seems like the best of both worlds. this has been tested already in markets like Philly and DC. if done well, the traditional sports fan will not know of, or barely know of, the existence of "the other."

I had a roommate back in the day who worked for Martha Stewart. I asked how she could market clothing at K-Mart yet still expect to fetch high prices for her other items from the swells. he said the swells not only would never set foot in a K-Mart, they won't even watch the channels where Martha advertised her K-Mart togs.
   11. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: March 19, 2021 at 10:45 PM (#6009305)
And they're going to get Eddie Cicotte and Buck Weaver to serve as their spokesmen!
pete rose would do it for a piece, of course, but he's still under sealed indictment for statutory rape.
   12. sunday silence (again) Posted: March 20, 2021 at 12:59 AM (#6009317)
Europeans think we are a bunch of prudes, frankly


Was there any point to this apparent non sequiter in the middle of your reasoning about the economics of gambling? It just doesn't seem to have any connection with what you posit as inevitable due to economics. If you're on an economic tangent why bring up morality? And why bring up Europeans in all this? I get talking about the south and the West (the West, really?) because those are regions in the US. But Europe?

Do we need to touch base with Japan and Central America too? To see where they come out on the morality/economics of US baseball gambling. I'm just confused by it.

Also what does the word "frankly" do in that sentence? It's not likely people are talking about Europeans or morality and they've been missing this point for a while. You're the one just introduced the EUropeans to this discussion so putting "frankly" in there sounds like your pointing out something we've been missing. Only we've not been discussing them.

it's... possible that some of these same gambling companies that are now here will be a little bit afraid of your potential wrath. so I'm saying there's a chance.


so now you take a different tack. but originally you said:


...the South and West will trail, again, for a bit. but resistance is futile.


which is completely different. so again. Fun read. Down to earth normal baseball stuff. I can relate to this. But you lose focus right in the middle.



   13. BDC Posted: March 20, 2021 at 08:12 AM (#6009321)
Europeans think we are a bunch of prudes, frankly

Europeans also live with a certain endemic level of match-fixing and other betting scandals. That's fine, but I can see prudishness as a reasonable alternative if you just want to enjoy sport without worrying about such things.
   14. . Posted: March 20, 2021 at 10:10 AM (#6009324)
The thing I always come back to with these stories and press releases is that other than MLB's public posture toward gambling so that it can get a cut, I still don't see what exactly has changed. Anytime I see one of these stories, it all just seems like a bunch of empty prose and corporate marketing speak words like "synergy." I've been to Vegas before and people sit there and bet on sports and the lines are put up on a big massive screen and the games are all on TV, so I'm left a bit perplexed.

Like what does this really mean:

The agreement grants Bally’s the title of Authorized Gaming Operator for the league


OK, Bally's is going to advertise more on MLB games and get some big fancy empty "partner" title. So what? There's no exclusive arrangement and nothing changes.

Or this:

as well as use of MLB team branding and data for the creation of sports betting products.


OK, people have been betting on the games for decades without having to see the teams' logos. Is there really a value add to seeing the Dodgers and Astros logos rather than just "HOU at LA"? Not really seeing it.

Or this:

Additionally, MLB and Bally’s will implement procedures to ensure the integrity of league games.


Huh? So MLB hasn't had any anti-gambling procedures to help ensure the integrity of its games? Haven't we heard for decades in the Rose affair that there was a well-known rule Plastered All Over the Clubhouses (TM)?
   15. Howie Menckel Posted: March 20, 2021 at 11:57 AM (#6009329)
"it's... possible that some of these same gambling companies that are now here will be a little bit afraid of your potential wrath. so I'm saying there's a chance.

so now you take a different tack. but originally you said:

...the South and West will trail, again, for a bit. but resistance is futile."

...........

sometimes the author is unclear, and sometimes the reader is careless.

someone who hopes that sports betting will not be legalized in nearly every state in the next 5 to 10 years - well, the news is that resistance is futile. it's happening.

the "chance" comes in on concerns often expressed here that watching a game will subject a sports fan who doesn't gamble to be constantly bombarded by reminders of it. that happened in Europe, and a number of countries - in response to public outcry - have taken strict measures to limit it.

so that's why Europe is relevant. they have had this for many years, and one result was oversaturation of gambling advertising. that lesson is liable to be heeded proactively in the U.S. - or at least, there's "a chance" that it will.

...............

"Europeans also live with a certain endemic level of match-fixing and other betting scandals. That's fine, but I can see prudishness as a reasonable alternative if you just want to enjoy sport without worrying about such things."

my jaw just dropped. so you think that sports betting not being legal outside of Nevada prevented betting scandals in the US? there was no need to be "worrying about such things?" corrupt people wanted to fix athletic contests, but laid off because of pesky laws? a history of college basketball point-shaving scandals is just something I dreamed up? have any happened in the past 3 years? seems like enough time for corrupt actors - somehow prevented from dastardly deeds by a law - to get going now that sports betting is legal outside of Nevada.
   16. . Posted: March 20, 2021 at 01:34 PM (#6009334)
Yeah, there have been plenty of match-fixing scandals here and the US also has the after-the-fact "oops, sorry, that was tainted" problem with college teams found to have used ineligible players or otherwise going on probation. None of that really seems to have any impact on fan interest. At the end of the day, it's only sports.
   17. sunday silence (again) Posted: March 20, 2021 at 01:40 PM (#6009336)

OK, people have been betting on the games for decades without having to see the teams' logos. Is there really a value add to seeing the Dodgers and Astros logos rather than just "HOU at LA"? Not really seeing it.


yeah but what you quoted says "branding and data" so presumably they are going to get in more prop bets. As you know, the kind; what inning will the next pinch hitter come in? I guess that's what its saying, but you make some excellent points as always.
   18. I Knew A Guy Who Knew A Guy Who Knew Rey Ordonez Posted: March 20, 2021 at 03:27 PM (#6009345)
fwiw, it looks like CT is the next new float in the sports betting parade.


Maryland should be coming soon, too. It was approved in November but no news on implementation.
   19. Howie Menckel Posted: March 20, 2021 at 04:05 PM (#6009347)
yes, a couple of states have approved but not implemented.

also coming in more and more states (for better/for worse) is online casino gaming - poker, blackjack, slots, roulette, etc.

much better profit margins for operators and thus more tax revenues.

NJ online casino companies (where the games have been legal since 2013) are now making $100 million in gross revenues per month - yes, month. sports betting revenue fluctuates, of course, but has yet to reach $70 million in the industry for a month in that state. DE, PA, WV, and now MI have it (online casino play, like sports betting, is rampant in all states regardless of legality, of course).

once you have a sports betting account, many operators bombard you with promotions to try to lure you over to the online casino side - the classic business practice.
   20. Walt Davis Posted: March 20, 2021 at 04:19 PM (#6009348)
When I first arrived in Australia, a guy named Tom Waterhouse of TomWaterhouse.com, a sports betting site, was a sideline "reporter" for the footy matches giving several real-time "objective" updates on various odds ... on a broadcast sponsored by TomWaterhouse.com. The Aussie regulators did crack down on that one and they eventually had to label those as paid advertisements. Granted, if you think Tom Waterhouse of TomWaterhouse.com is giving you objective betting advice on a broadcast sponsored by TomWaterhouse.com, you are probably beyond the protection of government watchdogs.
   21. Howie Menckel Posted: March 20, 2021 at 06:49 PM (#6009366)
Aussies lead the world in money risked on gambling by per capita and there is no second place.

they revived horse racing several years ago with in-race betting - some younger gamblers think that waiting 15 minutes per race is an eternity AND that even waiting two full minutes to see the result of the race is too long.

it's only offered in the US in NJ (again). I've personally watched professionals do this - it's like day trading vs traditional stock picking, in some respects. one pro did not like the favorite, but said that because the two "speed horses" were scratched, if he got the lead no one would push and possibly tire him so then he couldn't lose.

not even 10 seconds into the race, the guy has a dozen computer screens open - and he is taking on any and all comers who offer any size wager on that horse NOT winning (that's another feature of this: anyone can offer any odds at any time and anyone can pounce on it). takes about another 10 or 15 seconds before the other bettors realize that there's no way this horse will lose. bettor wins over $1,000 on a horse he didn't even have at the start of the race.

I find it all fascinating, but also so foreign. I can't imagine risking more than 10 bucks - tops - on a single sporting event, much less all that intense in-race wagering (which now is popular in every sport as "in-game." one sports betting operator CEO said 2 years ago that he has talked to MLB officials about how he knows they always talk about pace of play - but this snail's pace is appealing to big gamblers so maybe tread a little lightly. hey, don't shoot the messenger!).
   22. winnipegwhip Posted: March 20, 2021 at 06:52 PM (#6009367)
One refreshing aspect in the growth of this stuff is the radio coverage like VSIN. Not that I gamble a lot and think they provide inside information but the fact that when they talk about sports they stick to the analysis of teams and the games and the stuff directly related to that. It is a nice alternative from the ESPN like stations that get into the fluff talk when it comes to sports. No human interest stories or what stance a player should be taking or not taking related to whatever hot button issue is out there - just who should win and why or why not.
   23. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: March 20, 2021 at 09:22 PM (#6009390)
Living in Michigan, I can now confidently say that listening to friends and associates discuss their sports bets through these sites is even less interesting than hearing about someone's fantasy baseball team.
   24. Howie Menckel Posted: March 20, 2021 at 10:25 PM (#6009397)
23 - funny and true

MI had about a year's worth of heads-up in approving but not implementing sports betting (and online casino as well).

plus they allow a robust competitive environment - good if you are a gambler with alluring signup bonuses and reasonable lines, but annoying if not because of all the advertising.

and friends and associates fired up over a new hobby.
   25. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: March 21, 2021 at 01:08 AM (#6009409)
No human interest stories or what stance a player should be taking or not taking related to whatever hot button issue is out there
You just can’t not, can you?

Setting aside the unintentional irony of shoehorning a “stick to sports” into a discussion that has nothing to do with social justice issues.
   26. BDC Posted: March 21, 2021 at 09:23 AM (#6009424)
so you think that sports betting not being legal outside of Nevada prevented betting scandals in the US?

The level, gravity, and extent of those scandals in European sports are several orders of magnitude higher than in the US. Obviously no single small step is going to make much immediate difference, but it's reasonable to fear that normalizing gambling – or becoming "less prudish," perhaps – in the US would lead to more of them here, and at the highest pro levels of sports.

I truly mean that that's fine. Being a man of the world may be more important than having the childish prudish belief that the sports you watch are innocent. But increasingly, count me out.
   27. bunyon Posted: March 21, 2021 at 09:56 AM (#6009428)
It seems to me, with no great knowledge of the subject, that the US scandals have focused on amateur sports where there isn't much downside for the players and a lot of upside. The rules against associating with gamblers in US pro sports and the vast sums paid to players means that there isn't much upside for a US pro athlete to shave points or take a fall, etc. and a lot of downside. Will that change? Would it matter to fans if it did? Maybe and maybe, I guess.

   28. sunday silence (again) Posted: March 21, 2021 at 01:03 PM (#6009448)
the vast sums paid to players means that there isn't much upside for a US pro athlete to shave points or take a fall, etc. and a lot of downside.


why does everyone say this? There's no logic is there?

Even if you're making a million dollars, someone could still come up with ten million or twenty million to bribe you right? I just don't get the logic people always want more.

I do get your first idea.
   29. sunday silence (again) Posted: March 21, 2021 at 01:21 PM (#6009450)

it's only offered in the US in NJ (again). I've personally watched professionals do this - it's like day trading vs traditional stock picking, in some respects. one pro did not like the favorite, but said that because the two "speed horses" were scratched, if he got the lead no one would push and possibly tire him so then he couldn't lose.


I used to do quite a bit of horse betting. there seems to be some sort of logic to pace handicapping that was first promulgated by Andrew Beyer. The idea is to find out which horses might get wiped out by a strong then normal pace or which ones might benefit if the front runners fail. Like any sort of analysis there's glimpses of insight, but since its a parimutual system everything balances out anyhow so its difficult to find any consistent system of picking winners.

One insight that seemed to always work was to study the fractions in the final furlong of races such as the run ups to the derby. Generally 1 mile or 9 furlough races in FL, IL, Cal, NY etc. The FL derby, the AK derby, the Gotham stakes, the Santa ANita derby etc. YOu can find lots of horses that win at 9f but cant go 10f (mile/quarter). YOu do that by finding ones that tired in the final 1/8, say running a 25 and change final fraction in a win, then bet against them in the KY derby. A horse going 25 and change in the final eight of a 9f race will never finish strong in the KY derby. This idea is sort of like pace handicapping but strictly speaking the ANdrew Beyer stuff has to do with speed numbers he generates (and then publishes and sells to you) and you're supposed to study which races were run harder and those horses are better bets; which I never really bought into but some do. Some people make their own pace numbers using the similar logic.

Another angle is trip handicapping which is to study video of the races and see which horses had to take longer routes and which ones got bumped etc. Sometimes that might be pay off, but there's a lot horses that just don't get it and even though they took a longer route to get home in their last race and you think that makes them undervalued, they might just as easily continue to take a longer trip just cause that's how shy they are. Blinker wearing horses inevitably collide with other horses, that's almost a given.

I met this guy at Belmont who basically studied workouts. What the horses practice times were in the lead up to the race. And he would swear this horse was ready to go because he worked 4f at 1:36 and this other horse was being eased etc. And he was hitting winners too. I couldnt believe it. So whatever.


I stopped years ago and I was well ahead of the game having hit on Giacomo in the derby and the trifecta in 2011 kderby. But making a living at horse racing seems virtually impossible at this pt because the vig (house take) is so huge. It's about 20% in NY and sometimes as much as 28% on exotic bets. The say people used to make a living at this in the 1960s which I can sort of believe because back then the house take was only like 10%. Its totally absurd at this pt. betting horses.
   30. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: March 21, 2021 at 01:51 PM (#6009456)
why does everyone say this? There's no logic is there?

Exactly. It's not so much the money as it is the adrenaline rush that addicts get.

Michael Jordan doesn't wager six-figure sums on individual holes of golf because he needs help making the mortgage payment.
   31. bunyon Posted: March 21, 2021 at 02:40 PM (#6009461)
Even if you're making a million dollars, someone could still come up with ten million or twenty million to bribe you right? I just don't get the logic people always want more.

No one is paying anyone ten million dollars on these deals. You can't pay off a bunch of players (and, with few exceptions, you need more than one) tens of millions. And the point is, a pro US player who takes such a deal and gets caught loses the millions that come from the league. Whereas the punishment for a college player is: No more unpaid playing.

My understanding is that there aren't many lifetime bans handed out elsewhere in the world for a pro caught gambling on his own games.

In other words, if the punishment is likely to cost more than the player gets for participating, it's a deterrent. If it doesn't, it isn't.
   32. Howie Menckel Posted: March 21, 2021 at 03:53 PM (#6009466)
The level, gravity, and extent of those scandals in European sports are several orders of magnitude higher than in the US. Obviously no single small step is going to make much immediate difference, but it's reasonable to fear that normalizing gambling – or becoming "less prudish," perhaps – in the US would lead to more of them here, and at the highest pro levels of sports.


I don't really see the logic there, to be honest.

it's possible - although by no means a certainty - that normalizing gambling will lead to an increase in the number of problem gamblers. I suspect that such folks, given the one-click-away nature of illegal offshore sportsbook betting, have not restrained their impulses due to a little thing like whether it's legal (see "Prohibition, The").

but that strikes me as a more plausible argument than thinking that betting legalization will lead to more scandals. fixing a game is illegal, and whether there is legal gambling on the game is irrelevant.
   33. Bhaakon Posted: March 21, 2021 at 06:38 PM (#6009488)
Avoiding illegal activities simply because they're illegal is common but hardly universal. And, to be honest, we live in an economic system that rewards bending or breaking norms, whether it's actual innovation, fancy technicality to sidestep regulation, or just plain brazening out illegal behavior. Companies don't go to prison. Executives *barely* go to prison. Ultimately, businesses and their decision-makers will only follow the law as long as it makes sense in their cost-benefit analysis, and the more money is thrown into that equation, the more people will find the benefit worth the cost.
   34. . Posted: March 21, 2021 at 07:27 PM (#6009494)
The games have never been "innocent." Mickey Mantle played a bunch of his games hungover. Barry Bonds roided his ass off. Etc, etc, etc.

The best way to enjoy these games is to just pick a team, be tribal, be a fan of that team, and root for that team to win. Occasionally watch another game or the playoffs in the sports you like. If you're just looking for each game, every game to be pure and have pretentions to just being a fan of "watching the world's best athletes perform," not only aren't you doing it right, you're inevitably going to be disappointed.
   35. TJ Posted: March 21, 2021 at 10:44 PM (#6009524)
Living in Michigan, I can now confidently say that listening to friends and associates discuss their sports bets through these sites is even less interesting than hearing about someone's fantasy baseball team.


Living in Michigan, I can also confidently say that we will soon be able to bet on other people’s fantasy baseball teams since we love to bet on anything...
   36. Howie Menckel Posted: March 22, 2021 at 12:26 AM (#6009529)
if it's any consolation, TJ - I don't picture MI doing that before NJ (and little brother DE) do it first.

which - maybe?

:)
   37. McCoy Posted: March 22, 2021 at 12:20 PM (#6009573)
why does everyone say this? There's no logic is there?


Actually there is pretty good logic. MJ has a whole career to think of as well as a burning desire to win and beat you. There's virtually no realistic amount of money you can offer MJ to have him shave some points or throw a game.

So then who are you going to throw 20 million at? Stacey King? Sure he might take it but then you have to find places that will take huge bets at amounts high enough to recoup your costs, not get caught, not raise the odds significantly, and make it worth the risk.

And Stacey King probably wouldn't do much to help set the real odds in your favor. Well, he couldn't do much and not make it look obvious.
   38. Ron J Posted: March 22, 2021 at 02:49 PM (#6009600)
#37 I think there's a reason that the last major cricket betting scandal involved a young player who hadn't made that much money yet and was based on proposition bets.

50K to a kid making the minimum might well be attractive, particularly if you can frame it as "nobody gets hurt".

The problem they ran into is that betting enough on any prop bet to make a 50K bribe worthwhile is problematic. It was the bookies who spotted the unusual betting patterns and alerted both the sports governing bodies and the police.

What made the Black Sox work was that there was one single huge wager that funded it. Anything else would be gravy.
   39. McCoy Posted: March 22, 2021 at 06:46 PM (#6009631)
Black Sox are a bit more complicated than that. Rothstein supposedly bet the series so he came out ahead but the other gamblers were going game by game and got burned. Rothstein also made his money in large part by ripping off the players and not paying them what they agreed upon.
   40. Ron J Posted: March 22, 2021 at 08:04 PM (#6009642)
#39 Wasn't Rothstein who ripped off the players. He gave the money to one guy (blanking on the name) who kept some and gave the rest to Gandil who kept enough that other players weren't getting paid and somehow there was a second bit of money required.
   41. Bhaakon Posted: March 23, 2021 at 12:57 AM (#6009670)
why does everyone say this? There's no logic is there?


A lot of times it's not about greed, but about leverage. Particularly now that players are seeing their contracts and even careers ended by off-field behavior that would have been ignored or glossed over 10, 20, 30 years ago. Setting aside that bench players, managers, and umpires make less money and might be easier to bribe, the fact is that just throwing money at someone is only one potential avenue of corruption, and probably not even the most effective one.

Now, could sports bettors do that kind of thing without this deal? Absolutely, yes. I would be surprised if it hasn't been tried. But money is a hell of a force multiplier.
   42. McCoy Posted: March 23, 2021 at 10:01 AM (#6009684)
In regards to the black Sox it's complicated because there were lots of "players" involved and it wasn't like they wrote it all down in a contract.

Rothstein was likely involved with both sets of gamblers working with the ballplayers. At minimum he knew about the fix and profited off it and at most he bankrolled it. Either way none of the gambler groups upheld the deal and paid off the ballplayers what they were owed.

   43. Ron J Posted: March 23, 2021 at 10:31 AM (#6009688)
#42 Though Chick Gandil got 35K of the 10K he was promised. Jackson got 5K of the 20K he was promised.
   44. Jose Is An Absurd Balladeer Posted: March 23, 2021 at 10:55 AM (#6009690)
Actually there is pretty good logic. MJ has a whole career to think of as well as a burning desire to win and beat you. There's virtually no realistic amount of money you can offer MJ to have him shave some points or throw a game.

So then who are you going to throw 20 million at? Stacey King? Sure he might take it but then you have to find places that will take huge bets at amounts high enough to recoup your costs, not get caught, not raise the odds significantly, and make it worth the risk.


The other problem is that there just aren't that many people who are going to have the money to be able to make these things happen. You've got to be able to afford to bribe someone AND be able to then put down a bet that makes that bribe worth it.

College sports seems like where the risk and the action are going to be. Frankly I'm surprised there isn't more of that happening (or maybe there is and it's not getting caught). I assume there was a Vegas line on Marist vs. Siena on January 31st and I'd bet you could get good bang for your buck on something like that.

The other place where it's an issue is prop bets. Soccer has this problem; first throw in, first goal kick, no one gives a damn about these things but you place the bet and for the right money you can get be pretty sure you are going to get it. First pitch of the game is a ball. How hard would it be to rig that?
   45. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: March 23, 2021 at 01:06 PM (#6009705)
I assume there was a Vegas line on Marist vs. Siena on January 31st and I'd bet you could get good bang for your buck on something like that.

How much can you bet on Marist v. Siena without raising red flags?

I mean, sure, you can probably do this for a bunch of minor games with smallish amounts and make good money. But the more often you do it, the more people you have to get involved and the greater risk of getting caught.

That being said, I'm often surprised by the risks criminals take for relatively small amounts of money.
   46. McCoy Posted: March 23, 2021 at 01:34 PM (#6009709)
It's rumored that Chick got 35k. Swede 10k to 15k. Happy, Lefty, and Joe 5k each and Eddie Cicotte 10k. McMullin and Weaver got nothing.

Eddie confessed to the 10k. Happy, Lefty and Joe to 5k. Chick and Swede were not as forthcoming.
   47. Howie Menckel Posted: March 23, 2021 at 02:22 PM (#6009716)
the next college hoops scandal will once again occur with illegal sportsbooks - they don't do that pesky reporting of winnings to the IRS.

per in-game "prop bets" - the leagues have had some good success in getting state regulators to limit these. some states don't allow them at all on college games.

I'm often surprised by the risks criminals take for relatively small amounts of money.

I tend to be even more surprised by the relatively small amounts of money elected officials take to offer massive stadium and arena subsidies (I have noted the perversely amusing published emails of the Yankees trying to get away with not even giving away a luxury suite at the new stadium to lawmakers. let's just say the impudent Yanks were put in their place on that detail - even as we grant that they laughed all the way to the bank.)
   48. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: March 23, 2021 at 02:32 PM (#6009719)
I tend to be even more surprised by the relatively small amounts of money elected officials take to offer massive stadium and arena subsidies

I don’t disagree, but those politicians are offering other people’s money. It’s a bit more understandable. Criminals are risking their own freedom (this includes people like Martha Stewart insider trading, politicians who take bribes, etc.)

The alternative explanation is that the total amount of corruption involved is much greater, but they only get caught on a small portion of it.
   49. sunday silence (again) Posted: March 23, 2021 at 02:33 PM (#6009720)

So then who are you going to throw 20 million at? Stacey King? Sure he might take it but then you have to find places that will take huge bets at amounts high enough to recoup your costs, not get caught, not raise the odds significantly, and make it worth the risk.


This amounts to fighting the next war with the tactics of the last war. I'm sure there's degenerate gamblers working on this problem right now.

*****

I did the calculation using inflation to find out how much the 1919 Sox bribe is worth today. Actually I plugged it into some online thing. OK. $100k 1919 >>>> $1.5 M today.

So I get your pt. I always have. But lots of ways to cheat.
   50. Howie Menckel Posted: March 23, 2021 at 04:10 PM (#6009744)
those politicians are offering other people’s money. It’s a bit more understandable. Criminals are risking their own freedom

I personally know more than a dozen former elected officials whose criminal records from bribery convictions who would quibble with that angle.

:)
   51. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: March 23, 2021 at 06:48 PM (#6009776)
I personally know more than a dozen former elected officials whose criminal records from bribery convictions who would quibble with that angle.

Yep, that’s why I specifically included bribe-taking politicians in my list of people taking risks that I can’t really comprehend:

Criminals are risking their own freedom (this includes people like Martha Stewart insider trading, politicians who take bribes, etc.)


I saw the smiley face in your post, so maybe your joke just went over my head.
   52. Howie Menckel Posted: March 23, 2021 at 11:15 PM (#6009799)
I see that I took a parenthetical as more of a ... redacted item.

so I'm the one in over my head here - joke's on me

:)

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