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Monday, February 10, 2020

MLB expanding playoff system?

this one may make the Petco thread look like a brief, casual conversation…

“Imagine a team picking its playoff opponent. Think about Brian Cashman and the Yankees deciding whether to face the Red Sox or avoid them in the first round of the postseason. All on live TV.

Well, it is probably coming soon to the major leagues.

MLB is seriously weighing a move from five to seven playoff teams in each league beginning in 2022, The Post has learned.

In this concept, the team with the best record in each league would receive a bye to avoid the wild-card round and go directly to the Division Series. The two other division winners and the wild card with the next best record would each host all three games in a best-of-three wild-card round. So the bottom three wild cards would have no first-round home games.”

Howie Menckel Posted: February 10, 2020 at 05:16 PM | 128 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: playoffs

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   101. Greg Pope Posted: February 11, 2020 at 03:55 PM (#5923654)
strength-of-victory was inserted before [the points tie-breaker] sometime in the early 2000's.

Has anyone told Belichick this? I have wondered where Brady would fall on the TD list if he had a normal coach in regards to running up the score. He has to get 2-3 extra TD's every year because Belichick is still calling pass plays when they're up 30 points in the 4th quarter.
   102. Cleveland (need new name) fan Posted: February 11, 2020 at 08:54 PM (#5923722)
But look at what's happened with the NBA. The stars sit out, what 10-15 percent of the games? They don't care about the regular season.


Isn't this pretty standard for baseball? How may stars play 140-145 games instead of 162? Yes baseball is longer and more of a grind with daily play than basketball, but basketball is a much more demanding physical games. The wear and tear on players probably evens out.

------
I hate the current playoffs and hate this proposal even more. If your team makes the playoffs, then the fans should get a home game.
   103. cardsfanboy Posted: February 11, 2020 at 09:38 PM (#5923732)
I hate the current playoffs and hate this proposal even more. If your team makes the playoffs, then the fans should get a home game.


Excellent point. And I agree fully.
   104. Cris E Posted: February 11, 2020 at 10:41 PM (#5923749)
When the Twins made the play-in game a couple years back it did not feel like playoffs at all. Because so many fans were just happy with how the regular season turned out it was not compelling viewing. They were not expected to be there and they were expected to get stomped in Yankee Stadium, so a lot of folks checked out on the high note. I can't imagine a huge amount of interest in a sixth seed making another trip to Chavez Ravine.
   105. QLE Posted: February 12, 2020 at 12:37 AM (#5923758)
   106. Ron J Posted: February 12, 2020 at 07:24 AM (#5923763)
#61 Basketball and hockey play 80 some games for two reasons. The bad teams are competing for lottery seeding points (or whatever you want to call it) and everybody else is competing for playoff seeding.

Then they play for another couple of months.
   107. . Posted: February 12, 2020 at 07:48 AM (#5923765)
They play 80 games for a third reason, the most important of all -- to make money. The NBA could play 10 or 15 regular season games and you'd get essentially the same seeding you get over 80. It's not a game of subtle superiority that needs time to display itself; it's a game of obvious superiority that reveals itself in a game or two.
   108. Rally Posted: February 12, 2020 at 08:17 AM (#5923768)
They play 80 games for a third reason, the most important of all -- to make money. The NBA could play 10 or 15 regular season games and you'd get essentially the same seeding you get over 80. It's not a game of subtle superiority that needs time to display itself; it's a game of obvious superiority that reveals itself in a game or two.


Certainly true that a 15 game NBA season would end up with essentially the same playoff opponents as 80 games. There would be a few differences, but mostly among the 6-8 seeds, and those teams are most likely gone by the end of the first round anyway.

The league could not survive that way though. Half the players would have nothing to do after 15 games, and another 25% would join them after another 4-7 games. They would be making much less money, have plenty of time on their hands, and would end up starting a new league that better employs it's players.

So yeah, it all comes down to the $.

   109. SoSH U at work Posted: February 12, 2020 at 08:33 AM (#5923771)
Caption from 105

NBA commissioner Adam Silver (left) could learn from his MLB counterpart, Rob Manfred. (Cindy Ord/Getty Images)

I'm not much of an NBA fan, but I wouldn't wish that kind of education on anyone.

   110. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 12, 2020 at 09:07 AM (#5923775)
The real problem with the NBA playoffs is that top seeds never lose in the first round (I believe an 8 has still never beaten a 1) and almost never lose in the second round. The bottom 8 playoff teams are just there for show.

If only 4 teams have a legitimate chance at the title, a 16 team playoff field is absurd.
   111. Greg Pope Posted: February 12, 2020 at 09:12 AM (#5923780)
I believe an 8 has still never beaten a 1

I thought Mutombo's Nuggets pulled this one off.

EDIT: It's actually happened five times. I didn't look to see if any of them advanced further.
   112. Howie Menckel Posted: February 12, 2020 at 09:18 AM (#5923784)
the Knicks did, too, in the 1998-99 lockout season, when they reached the NBA finals. and 3 others (2007 Warriors, 2011 Grizzlies, 2012 76ers).

but the point basically stands, yeah.
   113. JJ1986 Posted: February 12, 2020 at 09:19 AM (#5923786)
The Monta Ellis/Baron Davis Warriors famously knocked off the #1 seed Mavericks in 2007.
   114. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: February 12, 2020 at 09:22 AM (#5923789)
#8 seeds have beat #1 seeds five times, but a couple of those are Flukes:

As mentioned, the Knicks, in a lockout-shortened season.

The Sixers beat the Bulls after Derrick Rose blew out his knee in game 1.
   115. Greg Pope Posted: February 12, 2020 at 09:23 AM (#5923791)
And to follow up, according to a random guy's comment, the lowest seed to win the title is 6th (Houston Rockets in 1995), but other than that, a 3 seed is the lowest to win.

So yes, the NBA would be better off cutting the playoff teams in half and just going with the top 4 seeds. Well, better off in a sense of not wasting peoples' time, but obviously they make money off of the first round and I assume that team fighting for the last 4 playoff spots in each conference have better attendance.
   116. . Posted: February 12, 2020 at 09:30 AM (#5923794)
It's unwittingly becoming a theme in my posts, but American sports fans seem to be in something of a malaise in that what they seem to find fun and enjoyment in is getting more and more circumscribed. It's fun to see your NBA team take on one of the elite teams in the playoffs, even if they only win a game or two. My then seven-year-old son's first NBA game was Game 4 of the Knicks-Heat series in 2012. The best arena in the world was buzzing, he was screaming "DEE-fence" at the top of his lungs, and the Knicks won by two. It was a total blast and I wouldn't change it for the world. The Knicks wound up losing the series in 5, but who really cares? And the idea that sitting at home evaluating the progress of some "rebuild" would have been more enjoyable is utterly preposterous.

The only games that have "meaning" aren't the ones where your team is properly "planning" a championship team. That's beyond silly.

"I became a basketball fan when my dad and I spent two years together reading about the Knicks' rebuild," said no actual person anywhere at any time.
   117. SoSH U at work Posted: February 12, 2020 at 10:06 AM (#5923803)
the Knicks did, too, in the 1998-99 lockout season, when they reached the NBA finals.


Not only was that a lockout season, but the East was particularly congested, even for a short season. The Knicks finished six games behind the No. 1 seed, which is truly unusual after 50 games.
   118. . Posted: February 12, 2020 at 10:10 AM (#5923804)
And they had the usual Knicksian dysfunction, with the Van Gundy/Grunfeld power struggle that wound up with them firing their GM with like 15 games to go in the season and a public flirtation with Phil Jackson. Once that #### got put behind them, they were nothing like the typical 8 seed.
   119. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 12, 2020 at 10:25 AM (#5923810)
It's fun to see your NBA team take on one of the elite teams in the playoffs, even if they only win a game or two.

My experience is the total opposite. It was absolutely zero fun watching the Knicks lose to the Bulls all those times, back when I care about the NBA.
   120. McCoy Posted: February 12, 2020 at 01:56 PM (#5923898)
Odd example as the Knicks vs Bulls was certainly not one of those push over matchups. It was usually Miami and occasionally Atlanta that were the pushovers for the Bulls. I believe the Bulls swept the Knicks once in the first round and then after that usually met them in later rounds with the Knicks putting a big scare in them occasionally and even beating them when Jordan retired the first time around.
   121. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: February 12, 2020 at 04:30 PM (#5923963)
It was absolutely zero fun watching the Knicks lose to the Bulls all those times, back when I care about the NBA.

It was zero fun for everyone, thanks to Pat Riley mugball.
   122. QLE Posted: February 13, 2020 at 01:00 AM (#5924071)
   123. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: February 13, 2020 at 01:10 AM (#5924073)
the folk pushing this nonsense continues to grow- granted, it may be less of a surprise that this one finds it a good idea....

Verdouchey..... it figures.
   124. AndrewJ Posted: February 13, 2020 at 07:15 AM (#5924085)
Verducci:

Under the current format, an average of 15 teams are within five games of first place on Sept. 10. If you retrofit a 14-team postseason format over the past eight seasons, an average of 20 teams would be within five games at that date.


Okay... but what if 14 of those teams are really mediocre?
   125. SoSH U at work Posted: February 13, 2020 at 08:25 AM (#5924091)
Under the current format, an average of 15 teams are within five games of first place on Sept. 10. If you retrofit a 14-team postseason format over the past eight seasons, an average of 20 teams would be within five games at that date.


Huh?

I'm assuming he means that 20 teams would be within five games of a playoff spot, rather than five games of first. Because the number of teams that are within five games of first wouldn't change. As for the former, of course. I can't imagine anyone thinking this wouldn't increase the number of teams within contention. It would just bring a lot of shitty teams into contention.
   126. TJ Posted: February 13, 2020 at 09:10 AM (#5924107)
It would just bring a lot of shitty teams into contention.


Agreed. If baseball wants to do something stupid with the postseason, at least do something stupid that rewards good teams. Like maybe saying any team that A) wins their division or B) wins 85 games or more qualifies for the postseason. Then set up whatever stupid playoff bracket you need to in order to make the numbers work. (Looking at AL and NL standings since 2010, the number of teams that win 85+ in one league or the other is usually 6 or 7, with the occasional 5, 8 or 9 outlier season thrown in).


This would have the effect of both keeping more teams in the chase for the postseason (if you can't catch the 90-win teams, you might still be able to get to 85 wins) and provided incentive for teams that have clinched a postseason berth to keep playing hard against teams chasing 85 wins in order to keep them from making the postseason grade. (The less guys at the dance, the better your chance of getting the cute girl theory).


Yes, this is a stupid suggestion, but I don't think it as stupid as what Manfred has come up with.
   127. JJ1986 Posted: February 19, 2020 at 07:16 PM (#5925461)
The NFL is switching to 7 teams from each conference with one team getting a bye, so we can see where Manfred got this idea from.
   128. Howie Menckel Posted: February 19, 2020 at 07:54 PM (#5925470)
how did we survive the recent playoffs without the 9-7 Rams and 8-8 Steelers? thank goodness we won't have to anymore
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